[ubuntu-studio-users] XFCE4 vs Ubuntu Studio 22.04

Erich Eickmeyer eeickmeyer at ubuntu.com
Sun Apr 30 00:02:39 UTC 2023

Yes, Jon. All of the above. That was spelled-out three years ago with 
the release of Ubuntu Studio 20.04 LTS as well as with every subsequent 
release since in the release notes (example from 22.04 LTS):

"Due to the change in desktop environment, direct upgrades to Ubuntu 
Studio 22.04 LTS from versions prior to 21.10 are unsupported."

It really doesn't matter why. We came to this decision *as a team* (I 
don't operate alone). The Lubuntu team had gone before us with the 
switch from LXDE to LXQt and had to do the same thing by not supporting 
direct upgrades from LXDE to LXQt either between 18.04 and 18.10 and 
took their advice not to support direct, in-place upgrades. If we were 
to switch default desktop environments, we would make the same decision 
again. When switching desktop environments, there's just too much that 
can go wrong during an upgrade.

This was in the release announcement for every release after 20.04. We 
mentioned that we would not support direct, in-place upgrades. The 
solution is backup and reinstall, no matter the desktop environment you 
wish to stay with. This is because the metapackage 
"ubuntustudio-desktop" *will* pull-in KDE Plasma components beginning 
with 20.10, so those wishing to stay with Xfce need to backup and 
install Xubuntu + Ubuntu Studio Installer, while those wishing to go 
the KDE Plasma route need to backup and install Ubuntu Studio.

All of this was outlined in the release announcements, the release 
notes, and everything for the past three years, so this should come as 
zero surprise. The release announcement was sent-out via this very 
mailing list and was syndicated via Twitter, Facebook, Mastodon, and 
Planet Ubuntu. I don't know how on earth this could have been announced 
any louder or clearer.
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio
Technical Lead - Edubuntu

On Sat, Apr 29 2023 at 06:41:25 PM -05:00:00, Jon <jonr at destar.net> 
> Ok, sorry Erich.
> So the solution is to back everything up on your current OS and 
> install
> an entirely new OS to be able to get XFCE instead of just installing
> XFCE? I'm ok if that is the solution, as the maintainer you must have 
> a
> good reason to do so, i.e. removing unused software, multiple
> dependencies for the software, being able to support users without
> trying to determine if it is the install of XFCE causing issues, etc.
> Jon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erich Eickmeyer <erich at ericheickmeyer.com 
> <mailto:erich at ericheickmeyer.com>>
> Reply-To: Ubuntu Studio Users <ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com 
> <mailto:ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com>>
> To: Ubuntu Studio Users <ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com 
> <mailto:ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com>>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] XFCE4 vs Ubuntu Studio 22.04
> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 15:40:24 -0700
> What on Earth is going on in this thread? Have any of you been paying
> attention to <https://ubuntustudio.org/news> for the past 3 years?????
> We have a quick an easy solution to this! If you don't want KDE's
> Plasma Desktop, there's a very simple solution.
> 1) Install Xubuntu (for the Xfce Desktop)
> 2) Install ubuntustudio-installer
> 3) Install what you need for Ubuntu Studio using Ubuntu Studio
> Installer!
> This is all outlined
> on <https://ubuntustudio.org/ubuntu-studio-installer/> and linked to 
> from
> the front page of https://ubuntustudio.org 
> <https://ubuntustudio.org/>! There's no need to go
> through all of the stuff you're going through!
> I don't know why, for the life of me, people don't simply check the
> website where they got the software to begin with to see if maybe, 
> just
> *maybe* there's a simple solution!
> I have been working on making Ubuntu Studio simpler for *everyone* for
> the past 5 years and this is what I see? People not paying attention?
> People not looking for the simple solution but rather looking for the
> most convoluted way to do somethign when the answer is in front of
> their faces all along? I simply don't get it!
> *throws hands in the air*
> You're welcome!
> --
> Erich Eickmeyer
> Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio
> Technical Lead - Edubuntu
> On Fri, Apr 28 2023 at 09:26:47 PM -05:00:00, Jon <jonr at destar.net 
> <mailto:jonr at destar.net>>
> wrote:
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Jon <jonr at destar.net <mailto:jonr at destar.net>>
>>  Reply-To: jonr at destar.net <mailto:jonr at destar.net>, Ubuntu Studio 
>> Users
>>  <ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com 
>> <mailto:ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com>>
>>  To: ""James Harkins"" <jamshark70 at zoho.com 
>> <mailto:jamshark70 at zoho.com>>, ubuntu-studio-users
>>  <ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com 
>> <mailto:ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com>>
>>  Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] XFCE4 vs Ubuntu Studio 22.04
>>  Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 21:23:24 -0500
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: ""James Harkins"" <jamshark70 at zoho.com 
>> <mailto:jamshark70 at zoho.com>>
>>  To: jonr <jonr at destar.net <mailto:jonr at destar.net>>, 
>> ubuntu-studio-users
>>  <ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com 
>> <mailto:ubuntu-studio-users at lists.ubuntu.com>>
>>  Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] XFCE4 vs Ubuntu Studio 22.04
>>  Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 09:13:06 +0800
>>  ---- On Fri, 28 Apr 2023 23:41:42 +0800  Jon  wrote ---
>>  > Just wanted to know if you have tried installing XFCE as your
>>  > window
>>  > manager or is there something that KDE plasma has that you
>>  > require?
>>  Plasma doesn't have anything specific I need. (This is actually part
>>  of
>>  my reason for posting -- in case Ubuntu Studio maintainers are
>>  listening, this user is offering some feedback that Plasma has
>>  decidedly not been an improvement.)
>>  Online, I see
>>  https://www.tecmint.com/install-xfce-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora 
>> ("sudo 
>> <https://www.tecmint.com/install-xfce-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora%C2%A0(>
>>  apt install xfce4") -- but, when I asked about this initially, the
>>  advice on this list was to "install Xubuntu then use the Ubuntu
>>  Studio
>>  Installer to change it."
>>  So... is there a particular disadvantage installing the XFCE 
>> packages
>>  over my current installation? A fresh install + all my software is 
>> at
>>  least a half day (which I had to do recently, after trying Ubuntu
>>  Studio 22.10 and then having to reinstall 22.04, oops, so I know how
>>  long it takes).
>>  hjh
>>  Well, it's hard to give any recommendations when you don't know the
>>  users skill level to revover from errors. I don't believe XFCE would
>>  overwrite anything, it should install and give you the opportunity 
>> to
>>  login to the XFCE desktop from the login screen. I would think it
>>  would
>>  be as simple as:
>>  apt update && apt upgrade
>>  apt install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
>>  reboot
>>  Also, I am not hearing others have the same issues as you are, not
>>  saying they are not, just not hearing it. So that leads me to think
>>  it
>>  may be a hardware issue, i.e. a driver that is not playing nice. If
>>  you
>>  are leery of going the XFCE route, update all drivers from the
>>  manufactuers website, hopefully they have Linux drivers.
>>  You could also try and troubleshoot if you have another computer or
>>  laptop on the network. When it freezes again, see if you can log in
>>  through ssh and check dmesg and the logs to see if you can find the
>>  cuplprit. Do you have any scripts running that you setup and forgot
>>  about, possibly sitting in cron, does the issue happen randomly or 
>> do
>>  you notice after say 23 minutes and 6 seconds it happens?
>>  Just some things to look at while you decide what to do, others may
>>  have better ideas to help troubleshoot, but I usually solve 95% of 
>> my
>>  issues at that starting point.
>>  Regardless of th linux OS I use, I always install XFCE. I don't want
>>  to
>>  waste resources on pretty colors or bouncing windows. I want all
>>  resources for Audio/Video/Graphics applications.
>>  HtH,
>>  Jon
>>  Always wisdom in the 'Enter' key and the 'Send' button.
>>  Better idea, setup KVM or some other virtualization system and
>>  install
>>  Ubuntu 22.04, then go to town. If you wreck it, start over, no harm
>>  done. Then you have an environment to test all you want without ever
>>  touching your workstation
> --
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