Forging a new path.

[alex stone]

Eric, i respect and appreciate the points you've made.

I have to disagree for a) the fact that pulseaudio is mandatory, and
it's a pain to take it out, or even get it working with jack, and b)
keeping ubuntustudio as close to the mainstream as possible.

In response:

a) Why isn't pulse audio optional, instead of compulsory, and

b) there's been a lot of development and updates in audio apps and
utilities in the last twelve months. (libsndfile to version 19, just
for one example).
If UBS is to follow the mainstream as closely as possible, then all
our essential audio utilities will, by the nature of going with the
flow for the greater good will have an additional layer of proviso
keeping in line with the rest, which may 'restrict' the opportunity to
include state of the art versions with the intent of  "as up to date
as possible" within the bounds of stability .

As much as anything else we've mentioned, it surely makes sense to go
modern/still stable when undertaking such a task.

And i say this respectfully to you.

Why does pulseaudio, which is basically a server to run domestic apps,
get compulsory precedent over jack in an audio based distro?

I'm still curious as to why this happened, and why jack users, which
we can fairly bet in an audio distro environment will be the majority
of users, are the ones who have to go through the pain and hassle of
eradicating an unwanted domestic server from a distro based on
audio/musicmaking usage?

If the intent of the Ubuntustudio project is to cater to predominately
domestic music making (and no offence intended here at all), then so
be it. I have no hassle with that, and will use and/or build something
else. (Which i've done directly as a result of the pulseaudio
compulsory inclusion, and the subsequent debris left behind when i
removed it, including the compulsory dependencies.)

But if the intent is to cater to those who are enthusiastic about
producing music at a more serious level (and i do soundtrack work from
time to time, like you) in addition to the enthusiasts, then it seems
the addition of a domestic server as compulsory, before a professional
server (and i use these terms for highlighting the difference only) is
shooting one's self in the digital foot.

There's already been comments here lauding the virtues of lean and
mean, and i don't see how handicapping that with an additional layer
of unwanted sound server actually helps.

So while i appreciate your position as a perspective for enthusiasts,
(again no offence) maybe the mission statement for UBstudio is more as
a leg into music making in Linux, rather than a potentially serious
studio based profile. If that's incorrect, and not the intent, then i
respectfully suggest my original point holds true.

Jack as a 'default' server from install, and pulse as the optional extra.

I've read so much stuff in the nearly 2 years i've been using linux
about how the linux sound system in general is a mess, it's confusing,
and hard to setup, and how tough it is to get a decent rig going.

I don't think that's true when we stick to basics, and at least share
the same room when singing from the hymn sheet.

We can be as pompous as we like about the virtues of using linux and
the opportunities it provides, but frankly, if Johnny Air Guitar can't
a) hear something when he pretends to swing the axe, and b) has to
deal with unwanted challenges just to get started, then he's gonna do
the Win or Mac thing, and tell all his mates that Linux sucks, because
he can't get it going, and doesn't want to appear dumb in front of his
pals.

That means our community stays small, and that help that people keep
asking for isn't going to materialize immediately because the weight
of numbers coming into our community isn't there.

Is our community (one which i'm enthusiastic to be a part of) getting
bigger or smaller?

If smaller, why?

I think it's good you're asking for help, providing a framework, and
impetus, and i admire you for that.

But it's also about the fundamentals of a system.

You've written that it might be more work for the already overworked
devs if they stray too far from the mainstream.
I would argue that the addition of unused components in a distro must
surely be a source of extra time wasted that could be better spent
elsewhere, including the devs getting time off to enjoy their own
lives a bit more.

Personally, i'd rather have a good rt kernel, a solid and reliable
late version Jack (and optional Jack2) option at install time, the
most commonly used up to date audio apps, and a lightweight window
manager, then point the users towards the repos for the.....other
stuff.

But i'm not a coder, just an enthusiastic user, and passionate about
spreading the linux audio word, so what do i know.

One more question.

Why does UBstudio have to follow the mainstream version schedule?

Why not release UBS for only the LTS versions, and put the time and
effort saved into a much longer timespan for the devs, and
contributors, and finetuning UBS with audio related updates and
improvements?

I wonder if this would be a far better solution, all round.

Alex.

p.s. Sorry for the ramble. I spent a lot of hours this week helping
two colleagues set up their audio linux systems, and the pace is
telling on this middle aged frame.

Not quite so immortal anymore. :)




On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Eric Hedekar <afterthebeep at gmail.comy> wrote:

> Sometimes helping out with the dev team really is just that simple - create
> a page on the wiki.  I think that's well within everyone's abilities here............





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