"We're not gonna take it!" :P

hollunder at gmx.at hollunder at gmx.at
Tue Jan 29 15:41:58 GMT 2008

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:13:33 +0100
Hartmut Noack <zettberlin at linuxuse.de> wrote:

> Hash: SHA1
> Eddie Armstrong schrieb:
> > Cory K. wrote:
> >> Contrary or not, I'm human. I get pissed and I will say something.
> >> This whole bullshit POV where I'm not allowed to say something
> >> when I'm pissed is crap but users on lists can? Naa... I ain't
> >> gonna do it. I'm "human" like the rest of ya. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm not at all sorry and am over it. Continue if you like. Back to
> >> business as usual.
> >>   
> Hello Cory,
> I am no big fan of your tone also but I accept it - this is UBUNTU
> also: come as you are. You are your way and I am in the free software
> realm because here is more freedom to be as you are for everyone.
> And you and your fellow devs do work that I can use for my purposes
> without even filling some stupid registration-form. So you can afford
> to speak your mind even if you are pissed. But as you can see: it
> does you no good - people think, you are an arrogant a-hole now. Why?
> because of the tone. To be polite and to show some manners does not
> encumber your right to speak your mind.
> Anyway: I can bear such behavior from a developer but I absolutely
> understand anyone who does not.
> On the "suggestions"-issue:
> Do you really want some average user to give you a hand with fixing
> software? Do you really want to deal with the very first patches
> someone has written? That is not the way it works. Maintainig a list
> for end-users servers 2 purposes:
> 1.) give THEM a hand on making the stuff you make run for them.
> 2.) find out, what you can improve
> Such suggestions are something like bug reports lite - you get test
> results from the real life, not too bad I guess.
> Of course such suggestions are not as helpful as a proper bugreport
> or a working patch but without them your work will never be as
> polished and near-perfect as it can become if you read such messages
> also.
> On the other hand: why  dont you just read such reports without
> answering if you aint got the time? Many devs do it like this and it
> is absolutely acceptable.
> > In no field of endeavour would you be allowed to address users, 
> > customers etc that way 
> Well - we are no "customers" - customers *pay* for work.
> But I understand, if someone is upset by Corys tone/style...
> > I think it fair you should at least  undertake not to talk to the
> > list members  that way in the future
> That is indeed highly recommendable IMHO also ;-)
> best regards
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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> =GMS8

I can also somewhat understand that you are pissed off, but you also
barked up the wrong tree imho.
The users on this list and the devel list are the ones with a bit more
interest and rather longer term interest in ubuntu studio. They'll
likely do help out if they can. The ones just taking and never giving
are the 5 minute flies on irc that often disappear even before anybody
has the time to answer.
In the concrete case most of the users here simply don't have the
technical knowledge to help with the problem, they are users after all,
not in depth linux soundsystem gurus.

I'm personally a slacker who just makes suggestions without doing that
stuff myself. What I suggested some weeks ago is something where we as
users really could help and show that we are something like a community.
I'm talking about documentation. It doesn't necessarily need to be in
the form that I suggested (dunno if I wrote that mail only to the devel
list), but doing documentation, be it application or ubuntu studio
specific, would be really helpful imho.

The start for the documentation would imho be some structure that would
allow it to easily find, access and add to it (I just find the current
wiki more confusing than anything else).

Just my 2c
Best Regards

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