[ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review
Peter Reppert
preppert at gmail.com
Mon May 11 12:15:30 UTC 2020
Hi,
The suggested changes sound justified and sensible.
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:56 AM <
ubuntu-studio-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
> (Erich Eickmeyer)
> 2. Re: Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
> (lukefromdc at hushmail.com)
> 3. Re: Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
> (eylul)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 15:23:41 -0700
> From: Erich Eickmeyer <eeickmeyer at ubuntu.com>
> To: Ubuntu Studio Development <ubuntu-studio-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review
> (effective for 20.10)
> Message-ID: <acd1d196-777c-1282-3972-83a571c0aac9 at ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of the
> seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly remnants
> at this point. Now, on to business.
>
> In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need to
> review which applicationswe include by default.
>
> First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we
> have three applications that describe themselves as video editors:
> pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have
> served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and
> describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and
> openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor
> for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE software
> (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE
> Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need to
> be including the most professional software we can, and right now
> Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one of
> the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for
> keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version,
> which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal.
>
> You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while it
> has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and
> animation application, and video editing is not its default
> configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender.
>
> Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default
> install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then
> some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in Ardour.
>
> Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally
> capable of each other's functions, each has a different target audience.
> Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced
> graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as Eylul
> has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether.
>
> Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn
> was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend
> changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a
> historically more powerful tool anyhow.
>
> Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation applications,
> with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom. If
> we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more
> professional of the two.
>
> Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years, I
> think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would be
> a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to
> easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial
> recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of thing
> makes my life millions of times easier.
>
> With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means add):
>
> -pitivi
> -openshot
> -calf
> -brasero
> +k3b
> -rawtherapee
> +digikam
>
> I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth
> dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty hefty
> download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an
> increase of 0.1 with Plasma.
>
> And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most
> involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow
> this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little, if
> any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet vocal
> minority from ruling.
>
> Thanks,
> Erich
> ----
> Erich Eickmeyer
> Project Leader
> Ubuntu Studio
>
> ubuntustudio.org
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 21:50:46 -0700
> From: lukefromdc at hushmail.com
> To: "Ubuntu Studio Development" <ubuntu-studio-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review
> (effective for 20.10)
> Message-ID: <20200511045046.576C9C06F4 at smtp.hushmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems
> (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install.
>
> On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" wrote:Hi all,
>
> So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of
> the
> seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly
> remnants
> at this point. Now, on to business.
>
> In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need
> to
> review which applicationswe include by default.
>
> First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we
> have three applications that describe themselves as video editors:
> pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have
> served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and
> describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and
> openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor
> for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE
> software
> (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE
> Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need
> to
> be including the most professional software we can, and right now
> Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one
> of
> the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for
> keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version,
> which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal.
>
> You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while
> it
> has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and
> animation application, and video editing is not its default
> configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender.
>
> Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default
> install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then
> some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in
> Ardour.
>
> Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally
> capable of each other's functions, each has a different target
> audience.
> Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced
> graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as
> Eylul
> has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether.
>
> Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn
> was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend
> changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a
> historically more powerful tool anyhow.
>
> Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation
> applications,
> with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom.
> If
> we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more
> professional of the two.
>
> Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years,
> I
> think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would
> be
> a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to
> easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial
> recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of
> thing
> makes my life millions of times easier.
>
> With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means
> add):
>
> -pitivi
> -openshot
> -calf
> -brasero
> +k3b
> -rawtherapee
> +digikam
>
> I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth
> dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty
> hefty
> download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an
> increase of 0.1 with Plasma.
>
> And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most
> involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow
> this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little,
> if
> any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet
> vocal
> minority from ruling.
>
> Thanks,
> Erich
> ----
> Erich Eickmeyer
> Project Leader
> Ubuntu Studio
>
> ubuntustudio.org
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:55:45 +0300
> From: eylul <eylul at ubuntustudio.org>
> To: ubuntu-studio-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review
> (effective for 20.10)
> Message-ID: <900bf1be-42fc-c437-e2ad-b2cc1f0fcc39 at ubuntustudio.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I would suggest adding:
>
> 1) Siril (photography) - astrophotography suite that does a series of
> tasks related to it, including dealing with astrophotography specific
> file formats, aligning and stacking of large number of images, dealing
> with dark, flat and bias frames etc. (debian package: siril)
>
> 2) Hugin (photography) - panorama maker, also useful for making HDR
> images, and aligning of some specific astrophotography and
> non-astrophotography related aligning. (debian package hugin)
>
> 3) Godot (game design) - Godot is an open sourced gaming engine. it
> looks like it finally is in debian repositories and we can put it in. :)
> (current package is godot3. Godot 4.0 is expected to happen sometime in
> the middle of 2020 through so worth watching)
>
> 4) Natron (video) - node based compositing software. (a commercial
> example would be adobe after effects) it has an active userbase. The
> main problem is that it is not in the repos, but it is available as a
> snap (and also as a flatpak)
>
> There is some other software I would love to see in, but they don't have
> repos/packages available so not sure it is feasible to discuss them.
>
> Could we start with the full list of software and work off of it? I am
> worried we might miss less obvious overlaps or potential missing items.
> For example we should probably look into video viewers (not sure we have
> VLC installed by default) and what music players we have. I believe we
> are not pre-installing some publishing packages like calibre, etc :)
>
> Best
>
> Eylul
>
> On 11.05.2020 07:50, lukefromdc at hushmail.com wrote:
> > I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems
> > (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install.
> >
> > On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" <eeickmeyer at ubuntu.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration
> > of the
> > seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly
> > remnants
> > at this point. Now, on to business.
> >
> > In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we
> > need to
> > review which applicationswe include by default.
> >
> > First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently,
> we
> > have three applications that describe themselves as video editors:
> > pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have
> > served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors
> and
> > describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and
> > openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video
> editor
> > for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE
> > software
> > (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE
> > Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we
> > need to
> > be including the most professional software we can, and right now
> > Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in
> > one of
> > the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for
> > keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest"
> version,
> > which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal.
> >
> > You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because,
> > while it
> > has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and
> > animation application, and video editing is not its default
> > configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender.
> >
> > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default
> > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and
> then
> > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used
> > in Ardour.
> >
> > Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally
> > capable of each other's functions, each has a different target
> > audience.
> > Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced
> > graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as
> > Eylul
> > has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether.
> >
> > Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn
> > was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend
> > changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a
> > historically more powerful tool anyhow.
> >
> > Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation
> > applications,
> > with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe
> > Lightroom. If
> > we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more
> > professional of the two.
> >
> > Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of
> > years, I
> > think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam
> > would be
> > a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to
> > easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial
> > recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of
> > thing
> > makes my life millions of times easier.
> >
> > With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means
> > add):
> >
> > -pitivi
> > -openshot
> > -calf
> > -brasero
> > +k3b
> > -rawtherapee
> > +digikam
> >
> > I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth
> > dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty
> > hefty
> > download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an
> > increase of 0.1 with Plasma.
> >
> > And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most
> > involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply
> follow
> > this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very
> > little, if
> > any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet
> > vocal
> > minority from ruling.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Erich
> > ----
> > Erich Eickmeyer
> > Project Leader
> > Ubuntu Studio
> >
> > ubuntustudio.org
> >
> >
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