extra background stuff and work flow idea

Sun Nov 13 16:08:37 UTC 2011

On Sat, 2011-11-12 at 08:55 -0500, Mike Holstein wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Ralf Mardorf
> <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net> wrote:
>         -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>         Von: ubuntu-studio-devel-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com im Auftrag
>         von Len Ovens
>         Gesendet: Fr 11/11/2011 19:06
>         An: Ubuntu Studio Development & Technical Discussion
>         Betreff: extra background stuff and work flow idea
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         On Thu, November 10, 2011 1:00 pm, Luke Kuhn wrote:
>         >
>         > While we are on the subject of background processes that are
>         resource
>         > hogs, Pulseaudio is in my experience among the worst
>         offenders.
>         
>         This got me thinking... It would be nice to have at least a
>         list of
>         suggestions of things that can be safely shut off that
>         normally run all
>         the time. For example, my desktop is set up with a static IP
>         (so I can log
>         in from elsewhere in the house) so why do I have the little
>         network
>         manager running? In fact, even with dhcp, my desktop does not
>         have to be
>         looking for changes in network. My netbook is different having
>         wireless.
>         
>         Many of us can not upgrade our hardware every 6 months or even
>         every two
>         years. The ability cut out anything I don't need means (even
>         with a fast
>         computer) maybe one more track when I need it, or one more
>         effect.
>         
>         An idea for a work flow. It would be nice to be able to set up
>         my netbook
>         as a remote control for the desktop. That is like a midi
>         controller across
>         netjack so I could control levels with something small that
>         sits on a
>         music stand without changing the surrounding audio space too
>         much for
>         those of us who both control and perform. The virtual desktop
>         kind of
>         control I think would be too resource hungry and maybe harder
>         to control
>         too. I don't know if there is already an application that does
>         just midi
>         controls or not. If there is, it could be added to the sound
>         generation
>         work flow which is already mostly MIDI stuff and includes
>         jackd.
>         
>         
>         Len
>         
>         
>         ----------------------
>         
>         Should Ubuntu Studio become a multimedia distro with absolute
>         focus to audio recording and MIDI productions?
>         
>         I switched from Ubuntu to Debian and today, after restoring my
>         upgraded Debian to the version I had before I installed the
>         upgrades, I'll have a look at Arch Linux.
>         
>         Regarding to the DE, Ubuntu Studio might have done a good
>         choice.
>         
>         Some points from my list are:
>         
>         - pulseaudio shouldn't be installed
>         - at least the real kernel-rt should be included, not only
>         preempt + threadirqs aka Rt emulation.
>         
>         I anyway prefer the kernel-rt + a GNU offending NVIDIA patch.
>         I also will keep GNOME 2 for my installs. The policy of most
>         Linux distros became a PITA.
>         
>         My stable DAW until now is Edubuntu 10.10 + Ubuntu Studio
>         repositories + self build stuff and I didn't upgrade since a
>         long time ago.
>         
>         Ralf
> 
> 
> i have participated in discussion about taking pulse audio out.
> personally, it doesnt get in my way, and i also think there are some
> users who dont do audio production exclusively who would probably
> prefer an experience closer to the main ubuntu (meaning pulse
> included). however the majority or users are likely audio/MIDI folks,
> and i could see, and support not having pulse included by default, and
> i personally also know how to install pulse if i need/want it. of
> course that argument could be applied the other way, and any user can
> remove pulse.

Removing pulse isn't that easy. Still my stable DAW is Ubuntu Studio,
but currently I test Debian testing and the easiest way for Debian seems
to build two dummy packages, libcanberra-pulse_2011-dummy_all.deb and
pulseaudio_2011-dummy_all.deb, since gnome-core forces to install those
packages, after the upgarde from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3. With this dummies
audio for non-jackd apps (at least for flashplayer and media player
apps) still is ok.

IIRC you switched to XFCE?! A good choice. My Ubuntu Studio is still
running with GNOME 2 and for Debian I've got a backup with GNOME 2, but
I'm testing GNOME 3 in fallback mode. I suspect it as too buggy gfor a
DAW, anyway fallback mode could become ok.

I experienced issues for my Envy24 cards when using pulseaudio, while
for my new RME card things seems to be easier, but I didn't do serious
tests.

> kernel-rt is over. here is what the debian multimedia team states
> about it from here @
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia#Realtime_kernel

This isn't a complete information. From time to time I get in contact
with Robin, while the audio community test a preempt kernel with
threadirqs enabled even kernel-rts ex 3 with and without NVIDIA patches
are tested.

> "The Debian Multimedia team is not working on including a kernel image
> with the realtime-patches applied in Debian. Much of the
> realtime-patches have been accepted in the mainline kernel, to the
> point that for most purposes the stock Debian kernel is suitable even
> for realtime-like work."

OpenDaw 4.0 the successor of 64 Studio is maintained by Robin who AFAIK
also is member of the Debian Multimedia team.

I suspect that they still try to include a real kernel-rt.

> i know its going to be challenging to let go of the mentality that we
> need a realtime kernel. we hope to have the -lowlatency kernel
> included by default this cycle, and we are planning on doing some
> testing/benchmarking with different equipment and the -generic vs
> -lowlatency kernels over the next few weeks.
> 
> 
> there will *not* be a kernel-rt included this cycle. if someone would
> like to instigate the inclusion of a kernel-rt, you are welcome to
> come on the IRC and go through the same avenues that we (mostly Scott
> Lavender) have been going through to get the -lowlatency kernel
> (potentially) included in the main repository for the past 3 cycles.
> if the kernel is not in the main repos, we cant ship it. PPA's easily
> add that functionality for the end user after the installation.

Currently I'm running 2.6.39.1 FULL preempt with threadirqs, but didn't
tested it for audio, I also compiled 3.0.7-rt20 with an NVIDIA patch,
but had no time to get it running with the proprietary driver.

I agree that PA not always is a PITA, but it can become a PITA. Perhaps
a FULL preempt kernel with threadirqs could replace a kernel-rt, dunno.

I'll install next Ubuntu Studio release and ASAP I'll test different
kernels, but I won't install PA.

Hard times ;).

Cheers!

Ralf