Server issues

Sebastien Estienne sebastien.estienne at
Tue Nov 20 18:20:08 UTC 2007

>  > Why do you want to "remove" it, disabling it is not enough?
>  Excellent question, and raises the issue of why I hate it so much. The
> thing keeps coming back from the dead, especially at upgrade time.
>  > It's a community effort, you can now add this information to the
> documentation.
> I don't think you are understanding my point about documentation. The thing
> that is really broken is the process. Yes, this particular information can
> be added to the docs for this particular piece of software, but that won't
> fix the process. If we don't nip this trend in the bud, we'll end up with
> substantially undocumented system that only a few "experts" contribute to.
> There are many specific reasons that Ubuntu is based on Debian, but all of
> the specifics are the result of a general process that produces a high
> quality product. The process is codified in the Debian Policy Manual. That
> process requires documentation so that everyone can participate and improve
> the product. It's not a difficult step to add a man page; it's just a step
> that needs doing _for_every_package_.


I agree that the manpage should contain explanation about disabling

> > It's perfectly intelligible to someone who knows zeroconf, avahi is
> > just an implementation of of it.
> Well . . . that's my point: You have to already know zeroconf to understand
> the documentation. But that's silly, of course, because if you already know
> how it works, you don't need the documentation in the first place.

My point is that knowing what zeroconf is, is out of the scope of the
ubuntu documentation.
You don't except to find documentation about HTTP, DNS and so on in
the ubuntu docs, they are generic technologies, and wikipedia is a
good source of information for these.

> > Before this sentence that you can read:
> > " The  Avahi  mDNS/DNS-SD  daemon  implementing  Apple's ZeroConf
> > architecture (also known as "Rendezvous" or "Bonjour")."
> > If the manpage is not clear enough, you could look for "zeroconf" in
> wikipedia
> >
> (1) If your networking system is hosed up, you can't read wikipedia or
> google.
> (2) If you want to rely on wikipedia, you don't need authoritative
> documentation on the system at all. For that matter, you don't need to
> include the source code either because you could just search the web and
> read the latest development branch online. While we're at it, let's go all
> the way and get rid of the help menus, too. We all hate writing help
> documentation, and anyway all the cool people already know. Let's all just
> ship a bunch of undocumented binaries and play hide-the-ball and
> go-find-it-yourself.
> I'm a manufacturer trying to fix Bug Number One. To do that, I have to ship
> a product that's easy to learn for those who DON'T already know.

BTW, zeroconf was created to for the people who DON'T know, and allow
them to have a working network without any configuration:

from wikipedia: "Zeroconf or Zero Configuration Networking is a set of
techniques that automatically create a usable IP network without
configuration or special servers. This allows inexpert users to
connect computers, networked printers, and other items together and
expect them to work automatically"

So i think avahi and zeroconf also try to fix bug number 1.
Sebastien Estienne

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