Server issues

Loye Young loye.young at
Tue Nov 20 17:38:50 UTC 2007

> > (2) AVAHI_DAEMON_START=0 should be default, IMHO.
> This is your opinion, some people doesn't agree, that's why it's
> possible to disable it.

Yes, reasonable minds can differ. That's not the issue. The issue is what
should be the default. One could just as easily argue, as I do, that avahi
should be disabled by default, and if you want it, you can install it.

> Why do you want to "remove" it, disabling it is not enough?
Excellent question, and raises the issue of why I hate it so much. The thing
keeps coming back from the dead, especially at upgrade time.

> It's a community effort, you can now add this information to the

I don't think you are understanding my point about documentation. The thing
that is really broken is the process. Yes, this particular information can
be added to the docs for this particular piece of software, but that won't
fix the process. If we don't nip this trend in the bud, we'll end up with
substantially undocumented system that only a few "experts" contribute to.

There are many specific reasons that Ubuntu is based on Debian, but all of
the specifics are the result of a general process that produces a high
quality product. The process is codified in the Debian Policy Manual. That
process requires documentation so that everyone can participate and improve
the product. It's not a difficult step to add a man page; it's just a step
that needs doing _for_every_package_.

> It's perfectly intelligible to someone who knows zeroconf, avahi is
> just an implementation of of it.

Well . . . that's my point: You have to already know zeroconf to understand
the documentation. But that's silly, of course, because if you already know
how it works, you don't need the documentation in the first place.

> Before this sentence that you can read:
> " The  Avahi  mDNS/DNS-SD  daemon  implementing  Apple's ZeroConf
> architecture (also known as "Rendezvous" or "Bonjour")."
> If the manpage is not clear enough, you could look for "zeroconf" in

(1) If your networking system is hosed up, you can't read wikipedia or
(2) If you want to rely on wikipedia, you don't need authoritative
documentation on the system at all. For that matter, you don't need to
include the source code either because you could just search the web and
read the latest development branch online. While we're at it, let's go all
the way and get rid of the help menus, too. We all hate writing help
documentation, and anyway all the cool people already know. Let's all just
ship a bunch of undocumented binaries and play hide-the-ball and

I'm a manufacturer trying to fix Bug Number One. To do that, I have to ship
a product that's easy to learn for those who DON'T already know.

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