proposed-migration blocks for milestones
jackyu at ubuntukylin.com
jackyu at ubuntukylin.com
Fri Sep 6 06:24:18 UTC 2013
Hi Steve & Scott,
If it does slow down the development, it's fine to stop freezing Ubuntu Desktop in our Alpha releases. However, we hope there are several frozen days for our Beta releases.
At 2013-09-06 12:37:15,"Scott Kitterman" <ubuntu at kitterman.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, September 05, 2013 20:31:19 Steve Langasek wrote:
>> Hi Scott,
>> On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 06:25:28PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> > > Finally, there's one other point that I think we should discuss
>> > > regarding
>> > > the opt-in freezes. The current model for opt-in milestones is that we
>> > > freeze all those packages which are used by any of the opting flavors.
>> > > I
>> > > don't think this is in the spirit of the original compromise that was
>> > > proposed, however - particularly since two of the flavors that have been
>> > > doing opt-in milestones, UbuntuKylin and Edubuntu, are deriving directly
>> > > from the ubuntu desktop seed, with the result that for beta-1, all of
>> > > Ubuntu Desktop was frozen. I don't think this is a reasonable outcome;
>> > > the Ubuntu Desktop team are explicitly *not* participating in these
>> > > milestones in order to maintain development velocity, and it's not fair
>> > > to them to have flavors that are "downstream" of them imposing a freeze
>> > > on their work.
>> > >
>> > > I think it's fine for Edubuntu and UbuntuKylin to participate in the
>> > > opt-in
>> > > milestones, but we shouldn't freeze the Ubuntu Desktop packages for
>> > > this.
>> > > They can choose to freeze the packages that are part of their overlay,
>> > > but
>> > > where the Ubuntu Desktop packages are concerned, there should be a level
>> > > of
>> > > trust in the CI methodologies that we have put in place for the Ubuntu
>> > > Desktop itself, instead of freezes whose effect is to reduce alignment
>> > > between Ubuntu and the other flavors.
>> > I guess a lot of that revolves around the question of how people feel
>> > about
>> > releasing install media with obsolete packages on them. We've gotten more
>> > relaxed about that in recent cycles without any problems I'm aware of.
>> > OTOH, part of the reason for uploading to proposed was to allow teams to
>> > continue to work through these things. I don't understand how two days of
>> > not migrating has any significant affect on development velocity. AIUI,
>> > the benefit for non-participating flavors is that developers don't need to
>> > stop their normal work and test/fix issues associated with the milestone.
>> > The larger effect on velocity comes from what people spend their time on
>> > and not on if a package migrates from -proposed or not.
>> Having packages frozen in -proposed still negatively impacts velocity,
>> because nothing in -proposed is being used by the developers and other
>> users; a full development iteration means the changes need to reach the
>> release pocket, where they can be used by developers and other users,
>> incorporated into images, and subjected to additional image-based
>> integration testing.
>> It certainly helps to be able to upload to -proposed instead of not being
>> able to upload at all, but the milestone freeze does still slow down
>> development. And in this context, I think it's an unnecessary slowdown.
>Perhaps. For those packages that are part of the CI environment, it might
>make sense to whitelist them from the block process. I think this won't be a
>problem again until the Alpha series for "T", so there is some time to
>determine which packages or the criteria for selction to be exempt.
>At the very least, I think there should be some agreement among the affected
>products about the relevant package list.
>This is probably a good topic to flesh out at the next UDS.
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