replacing the Startup Disk Creator

[Nicholas Skaggs]

On 09/18/2015 10:03 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>> I disagree. The incredibly long list of Unetbootin bugs leads me to believe it's
>> in a worse state than Startup Disk Creator:
>>
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unetbootin/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unetbootin/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-id&start=0
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=unetbootin
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=775689
>>
>> I have no objection to replacing Startup Disk Creator with something better, but
>> the replacement would need to at least adhere to the following criteria:
>>
>> 1- Support UEFI
>> 2- Be easy to use (including user testing)
>> 3- Use a modern secure design (backend service that does the minimum privileged
>> operations, frontend that supports multiple toolkits, communication over dbus
>> and policykit integration)
>> 4- Support udisks for proper hardware integration
>> 5- Be reliable
>> 6- Be written in a language that is maintainable
>> 7- Be of quality enough to pass a MIR (Main inclusion request)
>> 8- Have developers who are willing to commit to supporting it in the Ubuntu
>> archive, and for the duration of the LTS releases
>>
>> Looking at the list of alternatives that are listed in the forum thread, I see
>> no viable alternative that would be a good enough replacement for the moment.
>>
>> Marc.
> Hi again,
>
> I hope that you will not repeat the Nokia mistake ;-)
>
> You must realize that several qualified users consider the Startup Disk
> Creator buggy beyond repair, not only at the Ubuntu Forums but also
> among the Lubuntu users. And LXLE has already replaced it with MultibootUSB.
>
> If you can accept no alternative, and cannot fix the bugs very soon,
> things are really going downhill. The SDC has already been severely
> buggy for four years. It is time for "thinking outside the box".
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_Knot
>
> But on the other hand, if our attempt to replace it will make you really
> fix the bugs, that is also a good result, and well worth the effort :-)
>
> -o-
>
> Right now I am testing different cases and will try to send a report
> about my results within a day or two. I know now, that wiping the first
> mibibyte and after that creating a fresh MSDOS partition table and a
> partition with FAT32 will make a pendrive, that the SDC can use. It
> works at least in Lubuntu 14.04.2 32-bit.
>
> Would you consider my solution to the 'Erase Disk' problem, to wipe the
> first mibibyte, good or 'crude and ugly'?
>
> The SDC does not work at all in yesterday's Lubuntu Wily daily 32-bit
> iso file.
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
>
Hey everyone. I know this topic hits close to home for many of you, and 
things at times can be really frustrating.  Everyone here has worked on 
tools and solutions to creating a startup disk for ubuntu and family. 
You all know how difficult it is to create a tool to do this, and how 
fragile things can be. USB drives can be finicky, hardware has weird 
interactions, and the whole UEFI changes have made things even harder 
than ever. With that in mind, let's be positive forces for change. 
Remember to not make demands on others, but rather offer help and 
solutions. Let's make sure we are channeling our efforts towards 
improving the situation by filing bugs, working on fixes, and 
documenting workarounds and solutions in the interim. Be good to one 
another.

Now Nio, it's been great to see your passion for this over the last few 
cycles. I know it's something you clearly care about and want to make 
better for everyone. You care enough to have written a tool (mkusb) 
yourself to try and make it easier for people to create USB images. 
That's awesome, and I'm glad their is another option available. Not many 
people are willing to invest the time towards directly solving a problem.

I encourage you to have a UOS session to talk about SDC and the critical 
bugs you and others are seeing. I can help you get it scheduled. In the 
meantime, file bugs, write patches, fix things. In open source, the best 
solutions evolve naturally. Keep working on mkusb too. There's no reason 
to think or desire for the disk utility, SDC, unetbootin, or mkusb to go 
away. I don't want you to think one of these tools needs to replace all 
of the others. To loose one of the options would be a bad thing. We're 
all in this together!

Improving any one of the tools helps everyone, no matter what the ubuntu 
default is. I've used all of those tools, and will likely continue to do 
so. I develop tastes and needs for myself and I'm happy to have choices. 
It's what makes open source great. Everyone here shares the same goal of 
making it easier to create a startup disk. I encourage you to strive to 
make all the options better.

Now as for the default option, we owe it to the community to try and 
pick a sane default. Something that will work easily for most people. 
The cost of switching is non-trivial, so we must be careful to not be 
hasty in switching. I think Marc gave you a great list of things the 
default should do and do well. It would be interesting to create a chart 
of what options exist and if they meet each of those criteria. It might 
be useful as a base of thinking about what might make a better default, 
or perhaps how might the current default be improved to match. It's a 
great discussion, and again thanks for bringing it up and continuing the 
conversation.

Nicholas