This needs attention

Nio Wiklund nio.wiklund at gmail.com
Tue May 27 07:24:50 UTC 2014


Hi Gabor and Phill,

I add another +1 for putting into words some of the frustration I have
seen whereby one person continually cancels out what is a clear issue
for many others.

Best regards
Nio

2014-05-27 09:03, Phill Whiteside skrev:
> Hi Gabor,
> 
> I have kept silent on this issue, but I give you a huge +1 for putting into
> words some of the frustration I have seen whereby one person continually
> cancels out what is a clear issue for many others.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phill.
> 
> 
> On 27 May 2014 07:35, Gabor Toth <gabor.me at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I feel like I need to say something to this conversation as I found this
>> subject quite disturbing.  As part of my work I install Ubuntu systems to
>> customers and use Ubuntu for long years now, having been through almost all
>> distros of Ubuntu.  I have done some testing too and helped on bug squad
>> some.  These days did not have that much time to contribute, but I do my
>> best as you guys.
>>
>> While the discussion on this forum seems to be a lot of back and forth this
>> is nothing to what is going on on the actual bug report and forum there.
>>  Reading it through I do not have a doubt in my mind that this IS an actual
>> bug even though I am not effected by it.  If one does a dist upgrade and
>> his system was working before and after the upgrade going through without
>> any warning it lives him with an unusable (even though fixable) system it
>> is something you would not expect dist upgrade to do - thus it is a bug,
>> per definition of a bug.  A part of a system does something that you do not
>> expect it to do and of course it is quite high priority since en entire
>> system becomes broken and it apparently effects multiple users.
>>
>> There is something else quite disturbing though.  There seem to be one
>> person in the programmer side of the team that keeps disagreeing with the
>> everyone else and is able to push her own opinion (which seems very wrong
>> by the way) in front of the entire community.  When you look at the bug
>> report the status is being set back and forth and that one person
>> apparently just "cancelling" this bug while it is reported by a number of
>> others.
>>
>> This very point is the main concern on this whole thing.  If Ubuntu is a
>> community, which it should be, then this should not ever happen.  One
>> person's opinion should not over rule everyone else's opinion.  I am not
>> sure who she is, but this whole process was not something that you could
>> call an executive decision.  Perhaps she had no capacity, knowledge, or
>> interest to fix this bug and thus wanted to put it under the carpet for
>> whatever reason.  And the reason does not even matter here!  It is a
>> community and this would be a point when others could step in an offer
>> their expertise and time and do fix the bug.  However with her actions she
>> did not only stepped down, but also stopped others to work on it since she
>> simple "cancelled" this bug out entirely.  And this is not some little
>> design point or some minor program we are talking about but either grub or
>> the dist upgrade process that has a functionality which should not be that
>> way to be able called "workable".
>>
>> Per what I see something is working if it requires no attention in the
>> future and it just does what it should.  This is per definition "working".
>>  Anything else is a bug.
>>
>> Now, if I install an Ubuntu system, say on a customers computer, and make
>> that system a workable system (which sometimes might require some custom
>> tuning due to no out of box support for some sort of hardware) then I would
>> think that this is a workable system and the user, with no knowledge of
>> command prompt, not knowing what grub was and if thinking that dpkg was
>> some special ice cream should not be able to break a fully workable system
>> just by clicking on a button of dist upgrade and entering her own password.
>> And again, in some of the mentioned cases there was not even any manual
>> config and handling of the system but was a clear automated install broken
>> by a simple upgrade.
>>
>> I personally think that we as a community need to look at this issue and I
>> am not talking about the bug itself (which needs to be fixed too) but the
>> issue of one person's opinion could cancel out (and thus enrage) other
>> people of the community with living an issue hanging in the air with no
>> apparent way of solving the different opinions in any way shape or form.
>>  It should not be that who has a higher authority that is right no matter
>> how wrong she is.
>>
>> Is there anyone at canonical that can take a look at this?  Seems a
>> correction of this particular programmer needed on dealing with community
>> raised bugs specially because she won't be able to work like this with the
>> rest of the guys if she does not let them propose solutions and fixes but
>> trying to silence them.
>>
>> With Kind Regards,
>>
>> Gabor Toth
>>
>> Phone: +45-2163-4983
>> Skype: gabor.me
>>
>> Copenhagen, Denmark
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:42 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>
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> 
> 




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