[Lubuntu-qa] People do not understand the desktop installer

Ali Linx (amjjawad) amjjawad at gmail.com
Sat Nov 23 07:30:57 UTC 2013

On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2013-11-23 07:55, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund at gmail.com
> > <mailto:nio.wiklund at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     It happened again :-(
> >
> >     See this link
> >
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1769482&page=79&p=12855281#post12855281
> >
> >     and oldfred's reply in the following post.
> >     -----
> >     "I have never trusted any of the auto install options. Generally they
> >     seem to work, but often then when things start to go wrong, they just
> >     snowball.
> >
> >     I find that Something else or manual install has always worked, but
> then
> >     you have to know more than most new users. You have to manually
> >     partition, choose partitions format like ext4 and mount like /
> (root).
> >     Only users that have previously installed or know about partitions
> could
> >     do that.
> >
> >     I also find it safer to have Windows on one drive and Linux on other
> >     drives, but many users today have laptops, so they do not have that
> >     option unless they use an external drive. "
> >     -----
> >     I think this another way of describing the problem. There are not
> enough
> >     warnings in the desktop and alternate installers. And it should be
> easy
> >     to fix it.
> >
> >     Best regards
> >     Nio
> >
> >
> > If anyone is interested, I am ready to chair a session (Google Hangout)
> > to discuss and do a brainstorming about this.
> >
> > I still believe Ubiquity is not broken despite some bugs and to be fair,
> > it is not always the users' fault but maybe our fault too for not
> > providing clear and enough explanation? but then again, whenever I think
> > about it, I ended up to find out that most of those users are NOT
> > actually 'reading' because they are still dealing with Linux as it is
> > just a Windows a like system that whatever worked for them in Windows,
> > might also work with Linux - click click, next next, ok ok, cancel
> > cancel, etc without reading - and as all of you know, Linux is not
> > Windows :)
> >
> > We DO need to, not only spread the word of Linux/Ubuntu (and its
> > flavours) but to ALSO explain how to use that in the best and correct
> way.
> >
> > Newcomers may not be interested in 'reading' so why not give them
> > something interested to watch for example?
> >
> > I think we have discussed all the options in the past. IMHO, if anyone
> > really wants to end this discussion once and for all, I'd recommend to
> > have a meeting or brainstorming session to finish this because IMHO, it
> > is a waste of time to talk about it every now and then :) either to sit,
> > talk and reach to an agreement or roadmap of what we can do and what we
> > can't do or simply keep everything as it is a move forward and I'd
> > choose the first option :)
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > --
> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> > Best Regards,
> > amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
> > Areas of Involvement <
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement>
> > My Projects <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Projects>
> Hi Ali, Lyz, Nicholas and everybody else who cares about this problem,

Hi my friend,

I do care about this a lot, hence my replies :)

> We have discussed it, but the installers remain unchanged, and more
> people overwrite their systems. How can we change the installers?

Indeed, we have discussed that over and over again however, we are coming
back and start the loop from the beginning. I still think and believe it is
a problem with the mentality of the users not the installer. I mean, they
used to use Windows their entire life and they refuse to 'read' and 'be
careful' because they think Linux will read their minds and do what they
want magically without any error. Well, that is not entirely true. They
need to have some basic level of understanding before jumping in. My
opinion could be weird for someone who is newcomers advocate but I am
trying to be realistic.

If you want to change this, don't change the installer (don't fix it if it
is not broken) but try to change how those users are thinking or dealing
with their system. The warning is there, they failed to read it. Will
adding yet another warning will solve this issue 100%?

> Should this issue be raised to the Ubuntu or Canonical level rather than
> this Lubuntu discussion mail forum?

We need to agree and come up with a plan, that is all :)
Rather than keep us locked inside an infinite loop :D

> It would be nice with a video clip, but there is a big risk, that users
> in the 'risk category' will not watch that video.

You asked, you answered your own Q :D
If they failed to 'read' the warning and if they failed to 'watch' a video
then do you really think anything else will help?

> A big red warning must
> be there right in front of the user during the installation, and it
> should be necessary to click somewhere else (and not only press the
> Enter key) to get passed that warning.

I am not going to repeat myself, really, but if this will 'END' this
problem once and for all, then +1 from me :)

However, I do know for a solid fact that 'some' users will don't really
care about that and will go ahead, wipe their Windows and come to complain
that Ubuntu has done this or that.

Don't forget, I was once a very active member of Ubuntu Forums (actually, I
have started everything from there) and I have seen those who no matter how
many you ask them to take care, they ignore it and go ahead and do the
mistake then blame the system.

Do not blame the system, blame the one who is using it first. The system is
waiting for your input to move to the next step. I can't read your mind, at
least now:D

If you are using a Japanese Car (for example) your entire life and
suddenly, you want to buy, say BMW then the right thing to do is to have a
basic knowledge or ask about BMW 'before' you buy it and start driving it
so that you can avoid some mistakes you may fall into. With Linux, same
example may apply. If you have used Windows your entire life, then before
jumping in and install Linux, you do really need to understand what exactly
you are doing. Otherwise, don't blame the system :)

> Best regards
> Nio

That is all what I have regarding this and again, I am ready even to chair
a meeting if that is really necessary.

Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
Areas of Involvement <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement>
My Projects <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Projects>
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