Ubuntu-Pakistan Ultimate Desktop Machine Available from ATRC

[Burhan Khalid]

Please do not advertise on here. It is spam and in bad taste.

On 12/6/06, Khawar Nehal <atrc.support at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Software : Windows Vista Ultimate, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 3-Year
> Subscription, VMWare, MS Office 2007 Ultimate
>
> Hardware : CPU 3.4 Ghz Dual Core, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB Harddisk, 15" Monitor,
> CDRW+DVD,   Keyboard, Mouse, ATX Casing.
>
> 1 Year ATRC Warranty
>
> Price : Rs 243,330
>
> Contact : Khawar Nehal
> 92-333-2486216
> 92-21-8248933
> I think this combination shall keep many people happy. They can run almost
> all applications for Windows and Linux simultaneously.
>
>
> On 12/6/06, Burhan Khalid <burhan.khalid at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 12/6/06, Waqas Toor <waqasnasirtoor at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dear Burhan
> > >
> > > On 12/6/06, Burhan Khalid < burhan.khalid at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > First of all, shoddy marketing exists everywhere. So to use that as an
> > > > excuse is a bit tiresome. Everyone that has been in the industry for a
> > > > while has been bombarded with all kinds of marketing spin -- and the
> > > > quality of spin that comes from Microsoft is one of the best (since
> > > > they have the dollars to pump into their marketing schemes).  Everyone
> > > > has been doing false advertising. Tobacco companies have been doing it
> > > > for years.
> > >
> > >
> > > but still we are bound to use them ? have you ever thought of that ?
> > > we are compelled to do that ... vendors making modems specially for MS
> > > , printers for MS , key boards mouse and a lot ... is this comes under
> > > marketing or monoply you have to decide
> >
> > Of course you are not. It is your choice to purchase a computer with
> > Windows and a winmodem. I choose to purchase my systems without an
> > operating system.
> >
> > Businesses are there to make money. What is more feasible to you as a
> > business? Take a risk and develop some hardware, then sell it at a
> > higher cost to a niche market -- or, develop hardware that is
> > compatible with 90% of the world's desktops, and reduce the cost
> > because you know you can sell more?
> >
> > We can't deny that Windows has a monopoly on the desktop. Whose fault
> > it is? Why is it a fault? Can't we just accept that Linux has a great
> > challenge if it has to come close to being considered a viable desktop
> > alternative?
> >
> > Speaking of software and costs -- just yesterday in Kuwait (where I am
> > based) I saw a sight that made me grin from ear to ear. A company was
> > selling Acer laptops preloaded with Fedora :) No Windows.
> >
> > >
> > > > As I have mentioned above, these false promises exist everywhere; so
> > > > lets not argue on that criterion. However, their prices are high --
> > > > which is a price that they know they can charge because people are
> > > > willing to pay for it.  Why? Because of any number of reasons ...
> > > > excellent marketing, people are used to Windows, training costs,
> > > > platform migration costs, long term viability -- all these are factors
> > > > that lead businesses to purchase Windows licenses -- or more
> > > > appropriate, buy into the Windows Server System. In business whose
> > > > core operations rely on their IT, cost is not the #1 factor, its is
> > > > more operational capabilities, support and long term availabilty.  Why
> > > > do you think RedHat offers enterprise support packages? Because that
> > > > is what businesses want.
> > >
> > > OSS people have always  earned from their support ... but paying for
> > > windows software $500 and a $500 plus for Office and more dollars for
> > > support ( excluding time into monetary values ) have we ever thought
> > > of contributing $10 to any OSS project ?
> >
> > This is a great point, I agree with you 100%, which is why I donate to
> > OS projects :)
> >
> > >
> > > > In the end, they do not care of the cost, they care that it does their
> > > > job, and when it breaks (should it break) they have someone else to
> > > > blame.  That is the real cost of software.
> > >
> > > a good written and properly test software never breaks ... unless some
> > > exceptions of hardware failure or power failure ... check OpenBSD for
> > > that ... it seldom breaks becuase the code audit team are more tight
> > > than in linux or MS
> >
> > Clearly, if you have developed any kind of software at any scale, you
> > know better than to say "never breaks". Everything breaks. Its just
> > how long it takes and what damage it does when it does break is what
> > is important.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is a bit far fetched, but I will take what message you are trying
> > > > to get across here. That is that with Linux, you can breathe new life
> > > > into otherwise obsolete hardware and thus save businesses money.
> > > >
> > > > I would love to see what application you are proposing that runs on a
> > > > Pentium 1 at the same desktop response as a "fast" server.
> > >
> > > it depends ... i am running a 486 machine with 32 mb ram and 500mb
> > > harddisk as my network fire wall with IPCop ... so its upto you ..
> > > kernel is almost 400 to 500 kb in size ... its the services that eat
> > > up the ram
> >
> > Yes, but the poster original mentioned 'desktop speeds'. Of course,
> > you are not running that as your primary workstation. That was my
> > point.  Everyone knows, the best use of a 486 with a network card is a
> > firewall :) Hell, you don't even need a hard disk.
> >
> > > > I use MS software at work. I run two workstations. I do not see your
> > > > worms and shareware popups. I'm sure I don't have to tell you -- its
> > > > not the software but the operator. You can run a workstation with
> > > > proper attitude and not have to worry about such things.
> > > >
> > > > I never once received a virus, worm or shareware popup from a program
> > > > developed by Microsoft. I have seen people install "junkware" that
> > > > provides these things.  The fact that there is no just "junkware" on
> > > > Linux is only a testament to the fact that Linux is not widespread on
> > > > the desktop, thus it is not a lucrative target for developers of such
> > > > programs.
> > >
> > > then you are the only one my brother ... its not MS is bad ... but the
> > > code behind the windows is bad ... i can see ip_conntrack in linux and
> > > can see what my net is upto ... but i cant see it in windows :(
> > > and these are just small issues that windows dont shows us ... if i
> > > get a blaster worm why should i buy an antivirus for more thn $300
> > > again ... ?
> >
> > You should install Ethereal for Windows :)
> >
> > As far as the blaster worm comment -- I don't why you hadn't already
> > bought the av in the first place :P
> >
> > >
> > > > To say that such programs don't affect Linux is foolish. If we want to
> > > > see Linux advance on the desktop and become more mainstream than it is
> > > > now, then we must also be prepared to acknowledge that once it becomes
> > > > popular, it will be a wider target for junkware developers.
> > >
> > > nah i dont agree ... its been in the market for a very long time now
> > > ... and almost cattering 64 % of the internet webserver market so and
> > > MS is on 34% ...so again its getting late for the coders to purely
> > > crack the software ... why becuase OSS has a bigger community that can
> > > test it ... why becuase its free .. even i can test it with attacks ..
> > > but for MS i have to get a licenced version to test it :) again pay
> > > them
> >
> > You see, it is your choice to deploy open source, and that's great.
> > For businessess that have already invested in the Microsoft system --
> > to come to them and say -- "you are wasting your money" or other such
> > nonsense that I have seen come from so called "Linux evangelists" is
> > just stupid and unprofessional. If you really want a business to
> > shift, you will stop arguing the same 'flamewar' topics and instead
> > concentrate on how a shift or migration would help their business line
> > dramatically.
> >
> > Case in point -- I have a business client that already had a large
> > investment in Windows Servers and everything is running great. They
> > were thinking of setting up a new webserver farm for a new business
> > project; and they called me in to evaluate some of the offers they had
> > recieved.  I showed them, in plain dollars and sense how a different
> > approach would save them money.  My approach happened to be with Linux
> > clustering.  They were a bit apprehensive at first, saying that Linux
> > is for "hackers" and saying things that I imagine they got from people
> > evangelizing Linux in the wrong way.
> >
> > >
> > > > Yes, and what is your point here? I have seen rootkits on Linux
> > > > servers and compromised machines that are running RH and sending out
> > > > thosands of spam messages.
> > >
> > >  again as you said bussiness wants to get profits ... then this spam
> > > is legal why are we fighting the SPAM then ?
> >
> > You missed my point. My point was that there are compromises in each
> > system. To say that Linux is foolproof is foolhardy.
> >
> > Spam is a problem for any business, and it has nothing to do with
> > Linux or Windows.  You forget that spam was around before emails took
> > off :)
> >
> > >
> > > > It is all the reponsibility of the operator. If you have a properly
> > > > trained operator running a server, then the chances of such things are
> > > > minimized.
> > >
> > > very true
> > >
> > > > It is their choice to buy such software (you mentioned they paid for
> > > > it).  You can easily spend that money on buying software that doesn't
> > > > do such things.  If you are trying to allude to some software
> > > > developed by Microsoft, which one?
> > > >
> > > > I have paid for the following Microsoft products:
> > > >
> > > > Windows XP
> > > > Windows Server 2003
> > > > Microsoft Office Professional 2003
> > > > Visual Studio .NET
> > > its good that you paid for them ... but how many of us can afford ???
> > > and this is nothing oracle and sql server give per processor licences
> > > ... then why not postgres ?
> >
> > This comes down to a business decision. Maybe they don't consider
> > postgres to be mature enough? Who is going to support them? Is it
> > compatible with their current (example) Oracle Financials or SAP
> > systems? Where will they find proficient people in postgres?  All
> > these questions come up.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is this the machine that you talked about above? With the 500 GB of
> > > > disk space and BEST OSS software? If so, this is not the machine of
> > > > 2015. People have been predicting the demise of commerical software
> > > > giants like Microsoft and Oracle for a long time now.  What they don't
> > > > seem to realize is that there is a very good market for such products;
> > > > and as long as people and businesses are using computers, they will
> > > > need a company to back them up.
> > >
> > > again never pay a opensource coder a dime but pay those companies a
> dollar :)
> > > this is all monoply ... no open documents on hardware architecture ...
> > > just BLOBS and only BLOBs
> > >
> > >
> > > > My prediction is that software will become a service, rather than a
> product.
> > > its a product .. not tangible but in the form of 0s and 1s and its a
> > > long debate
> >
> > I meant in a way that you rent software, much like you do water and
> electricity.
> >
> > >
> > > > > Not many people can see the long term trends.
> > > > >
> > > > > The prediction of MS Office for Linux was 2007 and this prediction
> was made
> > > > > by somebody in 1998. Way before Open office existed.
> > > >
> > > > Who made this prediction? Do you have a link or a reference?
> > > yeah who made this prediction ?
> > > >
> > > > Yet some chant each year that "This is the year of Linux on the
> > > > desktop". Its all on who you ask :)
> > > the main problem with linux is its difficult ... but now its not and
> > > after 5 years it wont be ... why becuase things are maturing ... what
> > > i want you to do is write an application for free and give it to
> > > others ,.... and then let others copy it and remove your name and
> > > paste their own ( ftp.exe .. was Netbsd's , sockets were bsd sockets ,
> > > and a lot more )
> > > it hurts right ?
> > > but salute to those guys who are writing for free and giving free
> > > support why becuase they believe in computing is for fun ... and not
> > > some DRM issue :)
> > >
> > > forget if some thing hurts ... consider me a noob ... but cant help it
> >
> > We are all noobs in the game of life.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Burhan
> >
> > > PS. i dont use linux becuase i hate windows i use it becuase i love my
> computer
> > > --
> > > Waqas Toor
> > > member of Ubuntu Pakistani Team
> > > waqas at ubuntu-pk.org
> > > http://www.ubuntu-pk.org
> > >
> > > Linux *is* user friendly. It's just selective about who its friends are.
> > > In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and Gates ?
> > >
> > > http://waqastoor.weblog.pk
> > > (Registered Linux user #424056)
> > > ref link http://counter.li.org/
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Khawar Nehal
>
> CEO
> Applied Technology Research Center (ATRC)
> C-55 Block A KDA Officers, Karachi 75260, Pakistan
> Voice : 92-21-4980523 Mobile :
> Karachi 92-333-2486216
> Islamabad : 0334-5339171
> Email : khawar.nehal at atrc.net.pk
> Fax : 1-734-298-6555 Web : atrc.net.pk
> Gmail account : atrc.support at gmail.com
>
> Registrar
> Preston Institute of Management, Science and Technology (PIMSAT)
> 177/2 IEP Building, Opposite Regent Plaza (Formerly Taj Mahal Hotel)
> Shahrah-a-Faisal, Karachi, Pakistan
> Voice : 92-21-2789888 to 90 Fax : 92-21-2789891
> Email : khawar at pimsat-khi.edu.pk
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>
> "Gambling increases risk. Investing decreases risk."
>
> "God's test is simple. Who do you work for : Him or yourself ?"