Merges - Pinging Previous Uploaders

[Ming Hua]

Disclaimer:  I was a non-DD Debian package maintainer before becoming an
Ubuntu user and MOTU.  So my opinion is probably quite biased.

On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 02:48:49PM +0900, Emmet Hikory wrote:
> On 7/14/07, Jordan Mantha <mantha at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > Other people's merges? Nobody "owns" anything in MOTU. We are a team. We
> > take care of Universe and whatever needs to be done. MOTU is the
> > maintainer, not individuals. If a merge is decently documented then there
> > should be *no* problem with another MOTU merging it later on for the vast
> > vast majority of packages. If there is then there's something else going
> > wrong.
> <...>
> > People should be worried about *how* to get a merge done more than *if*
> > they should do it. Honestly, MOTU is sounding more like a bunch of
> > independent individuals than a team trying to rock the Ubuntu world. I
> > think MOTU could face even more serious manpower problems if it continues
> > to do so.
> <...>
> 
>     Thinking about this as a larger issue, rather than just "How do we
> ping?", I'd like to second Jordan on this.  The lack of a concept of
> ownership of packages is one of the ways in which Ubuntu differs from
> other distributions, and one of the things that makes us strong.

I've thought about the package ownership thing a bit in the past as
well.  And it seems to me this is not a clean-cut thing.  I agree that
lack of package ownership is one big way we differ from Debian, but I am
not sure if the up-side always outweighs the down-side (I hope everyone
agree there is a down-side).

Before I talk about my opinions, I'd like to point out a few more
complicated situations than just "previous uploader".

1. As already discussed on IRC, it can be that one developer merges a
package, then someone else just adds a simple fix (typo, .desktop file,
rebuild for transition, etc.), and become the "previous uploader".
However the first developer is more familiar with the package.

2. Upstream, or Debian (co-)maintainer is the "previous uploader".

3. Fixing mistakes in the previous merge or upload, like missing Ubuntu
specific changes.

Now my personal take:

Based on my own experience, I am on Scott's side.  I've seen very good
things happen with the MOTU's "no ownership" policy and the friendly and
helpful atmosphere, and I agree with Jordan that working as a team is
our strong point.  However, not every MOTU, or sometimes hopeful
(reviewing a need-sponsoring upload you are not familiar is hard, and
sometimes you miss things) cherishes the team thing, and sometimes their
behaviors hurt others.

As all of my Debian packages (the one I am maintainer or co-maintainer)
are input method related, which is a rather less-known area, there are
ofter special considerations and tricky things.  I've seen those
packages updated in Ubuntu (either merging when a new dev cycle starts,
or just newer -XubuntuY revisions) with questionable patches, which I
would prefer to discuss before the upload.  I'm subscribed to bugmails
of all those packages, but very few times such changes have a bug opened
and debdiff attached.

So I don't know.  Maybe we should find a way to put blame on people
about improper merges/updates, and remove upload privilege of MOTUs who
make too many mistakes (including careless review and sponsoring).
Maybe I should learn to be more thick-skinned and don't feel hurt when
such things happen.  Maybe I should either devote more time for Ubuntu
to take care of my Debian package or shut up.

That's all.  I am not very active in MOTU right now (mostly because busy
at school, but the above experience is one reason), so take what I say
with a grain of salt.  However I see Scott has been hard working to keep
gutsy in shape, so everyone probably should listen to him more
carefully.  I've always liked Debian's "it's the maintainer doing the
actual work, so it's the maintainer's word that counts" attitude, so
while attracting new blood is vital to a healthy MOTU team, keeping
current members happy is important as well.  It's always about a
balance, and IMO probably a hard one to keep.

Ming
2007.07.14