Packages updates on REVU

Sun Apr 22 18:44:24 BST 2007

Barry deFreese wrote:
> Lionel Le Folgoc wrote:
>   
>> On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 13:35:15 +0200, Gauvain Pocentek <gauvainpocentek at gmail.com> wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Hello MOTUs and MOTU hopefuls,
>>>
>>> As you certainly noticed, the list of packages waiting on REVU is
>>> really, really long. I've reviewed a few and the update to gutsy is
>>> needed for all of them (only a one line change in the changelog, but
>>> needed). It'd be nice if  people having  packages on REVU could update
>>> the distro target.
>>>
>>> Also, a lot of packages have been commented by reviewers but not updated
>>> by the uploaders. Could we define some kind of policy about what we
>>> should do with this packages? My guess is that we should mail the
>>> uploader directly (not only a message on REVU or on this list) to ask
>>> him what he intends to do with the package. This would allow us to clean
>>> the list, and other packagers to grab the package and finish it if the
>>> initial packager don't want / can't work on the package anymore.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Gauvain
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-motu mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-motu at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
>>>     
>>>       
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think this is a good idea.
>>
>> But IMO, it raises some important questions, and since we're at the
>> beginning of a new development cycle, it is the good time to try to
>> answer them, to keep on improving us and Universe.
>>
>> I read some comments on bug reports[1], which made me think that
>> something isn't going well, and we should try to find why and how fix
>> it. And the thing to blame isn't 'miscommunication'.
>>
>> Yes, everyone will agree, the packages list waiting on REVU is huge, and
>> I believe there is an issue in both MOTUs and people proposing packages.
>>
>>
>> * First, why are there so few reviewers?
>>
>> That's not definitely because a lack of MOTU (65 members of ~motu)
>> I really wonder why so few MOTUs are reviewing on REVU. Here are some
>> possible answers:
>>
>>  - core-dev: some MOTUs are also core-dev, so they are very busy,
>> dealing with main packages.
>>
>>  - "debian-way-of-thinking" (that's not pejorative): some MOTUs take
>> care of their own packages *only* (that's not the way I see this task,
>> and I am pretty sure you agree).
>>
>>  - too busy to review: making statistics, rebuilds of the whole archive
>> and all this kind of tasks is useful, but not essential. It won't
>> fix nor review issues/packages.
>>
>>  - knowledge issue: reviewing is hard, and reasonably, no one can know
>> all packaging policies. I think that many MOTUs don't 'dare' to review
>> package, because they think it'll call into question their packaging
>> knowledge.
>>
>>
>> * Then, why are there so many packages waiting on REVU?
>>
>> (I've just spoken of the lack of reviewers above, so I won't speak about
>> it again.)
>>
>> IMO, many packagers upload their packages to REVU, and think that's
>> done, and their packages are going to get into Universe. I don't know if
>> it is a miscommunication or a lack of motivation, but actually, very
>> few people come on #ubuntu-motu to "prevent MOTUs from sleeping until
>> they have reviewed their packages". This is worse during REVU days: many
>> packages are reviewed, but few are updated by packagers within the "time
>> frame" (i.e. before the end of these REVU days).
>>
>>
>> * So, how can we improve this?
>>
>> I think the REVU/wiki page has to be updated, to explicitely say:
>> "When-you-upload-a-package-go-on-#ubuntu-motu-and-cry-and-yell-until-you-get-a-MOTU-to-review-it".
>>
>> Besides, we need a better tracking for proposed packages. The
>> motu-reviewers mailing list has a 'too high traffic' to manage this
>> efficiently. When I review a package, I need to keep the name/address
>> and check incoming mail to see if it hasn't been updated.
>> I think we can use LP for this. For instance, if a bug report is filed
>> for each new package uploaded on REVU, it would be easier to see if a
>> MOTU isn't already reviewing it. As we did with the 'needs-packaging'
>> tag, we could set up a tag which indicates a package needs to be reviewed.
>>
>> Finally, I think that it'll only need a little effort if everyone is
>> involving ; no specification - even well written -, no statistic - even
>> very precise - is going to be the miracle-fix for the 5 problematic
>> points explained above.
>>
>> Thoughts on this?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Lionel
>>
>> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/104654/comments/2
>>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vdrift-data/+bug/106854/comments/
>>     

Hi Barry,

> Lionel,
>
> I agree with much of what you are saying.  However, your comment about a 
> lack of resources not being an issue is false I believe.  Yes, there are 
> 65 MOTUs listed but how many of them are actually active?
>
> We tend to go through cycles where people have higher and lower levels 
> of involvement.  That includes myself as well.  I try to REVU when I can 
> but when my real-life workload gets high and I still have other stuff 
> going on with Ubuntu, REVU drops in the priority list.  My own personal 
> opinion is that we don't even have the resources to take on what we have 
> much less adding hundreds and hundreds of new packages.

/me agrees, real life is to be considered. But I'm sure that Lionel 
wasn't thinking that we should be working all the time when we become 
MOTU :)
We've reviewed the list of active MOTUs together with Daniel H. a few 
weeks ago, and most are still active in a way or another. Maybe we're 
lacking a good way to organize the reviews.

>   The other issue 
> is that there are no "standards" for the packages on REVU.  Much of the 
> stuff on there is cruft and I don't even see the benefit of bringing 
> some of it in.  Yeah it's nice that Joe User can get his or her package 
> in the repo's but does it really benefit Ubuntu?
>   

That's a question that has already been considered, but we might need to 
think about that again...

> I also tend to see a lot of upload it and forget it as Guavain somewhat 
> pointed out to start with.  Several packages have been sitting out there 
> and we have made comments and in certain instances I have even mailed 
> the uploader with no response.  I realize that some of that may be 
> frustration on the uploaders part but again, we aren't miracle workers.
>   

I've spent days and days bugging MOTUs on irc for reviews when I started 
to work on Ubuntu. I don't see people doing this anymore (or way less 
often than before). We should clarify the fact that having a package 
included in Ubuntu needs work and perseverance.

> Just my 2 worthless cents.
>   

Thanks :)

Gauvain

> Thanks,
>
> Barry (aka bddebian)
>
>   