UVF exception for ipython-0.7.0-2

[Stephan Hermann]

Hi,

On Sunday 22 January 2006 15:12, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Am Sonntag, den 22.01.2006, 13:38 +0100 schrieb Stephan Hermann:
> > On Saturday 21 January 2006 23:45, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> > > I just had a serious talk with the ipython maintainer of ipython. He is
> > > currently preparing version 0.7.0-2 for debian, and thinks that version
> > > should be in dapper. We did some investigation and found that the merge
> > > for the previous version was botched, so something has to be done
> > > anyway.
> >
> > Well, the patch he was talking about was introduced in hoary from doko.
> > I don't actually know anymore, if the patch was in the upstream version
> > of debian, during the merge period.
> >
> > So, Norbert shouldn't complain so loud, because he never mentiond the
> > upstream change in his changelog.
>
> Anyway. I don't think it is his job to check if we are doing our merge
> jobs right. Just because he doesn't copy the upstream changelog to
> debian/changelog, this is no excuse to not check if those patches are
> necessary at all.

That I don't say. The patch was introduced during hoary, when doko pushed a 
new upstream to ubuntu, which wasn't pushed to debian.
Regarding the fact, that his change came only later to upstream, it's ok for 
the patch. Nobody's to blame for that.

> > Actually, I honestly don't know anymore, why the changelog for breezy
> > wasn't containing the changes from ubuntu. But there are only two reasons
> > why: MoM output was bugged, or I wasn't paying enough attention to the
> > changelog diff.
>
> Exactly that's the point. Sorry, I can really understand why this
> behavior pisses some DDs off. You cannot botch some merge and later tell
> your upstream (in this case the DD who cares for the packages) that he
> shouldn't shout that loud.

Well, there is a difference between, doing my job, and complaining about my 
job. Fact is, he was looking the last couple of days to the package in ubuntu 
and not during the last >6 months, because when he had a look earlier, he 
would have seen the patch much earlier, and could talk to doko or during 
breezy to me.
The job of the maintainer is to make a decision, this can mean: "Use a patch" 
or "ignore it". Both ways are possible, and both ways are correct.

Regarding the latest discussions on debian-devel, it's a matter of fact, that 
right now, we will receive many annoying complains about some of our actions.
I don't say, that we are always right, but nevertheless, it's a poor attitude 
of people, to complain loud, but not saying that they only had a look now, 
not earlier.

Sorry to say, there is something wrong.

Regarding my merge, at this time, I can't say anymore what was the cause of 
not including the hoary changelog entries. But, the merge was done by me, and 
it was working. So no harm towards Ubuntu. But it would be nice, if the 
complaining party is complaining the right way. Not only regarding an 
opponents mistake, no, the complaining party should also complain about their 
mistakes, and that was, not to check at all during the last >6 months.

This morning when I read Norberts entry on planet debian, I was thinking about 
writing a blog entry as well. But I ignored my feelings, and I didn't feed 
the trolls.

> > > The patch to the package is quite small, only the default python would
> > > need to changed. If I get approval, I'll handly this shortly
> >
> > Well, and the python 2.2 package has to be removed from the dapper
> > package.
> >
> > It would be easier, if Norbert just had ask me, because he shout out loud
> > that he read the changelog
> > (http://www.inittab.de/blog/2006/01/21#20060121_ubuntu-did-it-again), but
> > never bothered to ask, when he didn't understand it. Actually that would
> > be the action I would take.
>
> Did you or doko talk to him when creating the patch? No? So why should
> he? If you had talked to him when doing the merge, then he would have
> been able to tell you, that the (now undocumented) patch in question was
> added to the debian package in version 0.6.5-1.1, and was merged
> upstream in 0.6.12. Therefore I can call the merge botched, which I
> think should be fixed rather quickly in order to not annoy nobse further
> than necessary.

As I said, it's a decision to be made. I made the decision. And as I said 
before, I don't really know why the changelog wasn't correct. But I'm always 
in the position, to not blame technical solutions like MoM, but to blame 
myself. So I blame myself. But it's the past. I can't change anything for 
breezy anymore, so I don't think about it anymore.

> I'm quite happy than he talks to me at all about ubuntu packages. I
> would not like that he ignores us completely :(

Well, I never said he or them should ignore us at all. The problem is, that 
exactly at this very special time, some of them are starting to complain, 
because now, they know where to look. But if they were interested before this 
very special time, there would be no need to complain. Everything would be 
much easier and we would have a happy developement community between ubuntu 
and debian, actually with much more value.

> > But for me it would be ok, when we know what exactly changed in the
> > upcoming release.
>
> I just asked nobse and he told me that 0.7.0 was a bugfix only release,
> and he would really appreciate if dapper would ship that version. I
> trust him in this matter.

To come back to the original request:
	No objections. Go ahead with 0.7.0-1.

Regards,

\sh