[Ubuntu-l10n-eng] The Deleted Items saga

Bruce Cowan bruce.cowan at dsl.pipex.com
Sun Oct 1 14:29:14 BST 2006

On Sun, 2006-10-01 at 13:04 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
> On Sunday 01 October 2006 12:54, Sridhar Dhanapalan <sridhar at dhanapalan.com> 
> wrote:
> > On Sunday 01 October 2006 05:24, Bruce Cowan <bruce.cowan at dsl.pipex.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > First of all, I do not like the changing of Wastebasket to Deleted
> > > Items.  I think that neither of them are perfect, but Wastebasket is
> > > slightly better as it is less awkward, and smaller.  Also, there is a
> > > ambiguity in choosing either "Deleted items" or "Deleted items folder"
> > > for a specific string.  I also think that consistency with other Linuxes
> > > is paramount.  A poll of 30 people shouldn't decide a substantial change
> > > in localisation policy.
> > >
> > > I realise that it's too late to back out of it for Edgy, but I think we
> > > should revert back to Wastebasket for Edgy+1 until a consensus is found
> > > on a better phrase (approved by gnome-uk too).

I started a thread about this in the forums
( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=268709 ) where somebody made
a very good point:

"It's confusing...because are they deleted, or are they not?"

The issue in this is that the folder is called deleted items, but the
items in the folder have not been deleted.  The real use of the folder
would mean is to store items which are pending deletion, but haven't
been deleted yet.

I am not sure if anyone is running Edgy, but the Empty Deleted Items
folder dialogue looks ridiculously large. (See attached image)

> >
> > Perhaps we were a bit hasty, but we are hardly the first to use this
> > terminology. It is commonplace amongst mail clients, such as Google (and I
> > also believe Yahoo) Mail and MS Outlook. Thunderbird uses a similar
> > 'Deleted' designation.

I didn't realise that it was used elsewhere.
> Also, it would incorrect to say that we changed from 'Wastebasket' to 'Deleted 
> Items'. We had at least three different names for the same thing, with GNOME 
> using 'Wastebasket', KDE preferring 'Wastebin' and Thunderbird 
> employing 'Deleted'. This presents some unnecessary confusion, especially for 
> those who mix applications from different desktops/projects.

I understand the fact that the goal is supposed to be consistency
between all applications, but at the moment, the different terms are all
over the place, but it is a WIP.
> All we did was take an accepted en_GB translation and extend it to cover the 
> entire distribution. In doing so, we have improved consistency across the 
> board.
Yes, this is true, but I don't think the words used are correct as a
localisation, and most of the people on that forum thread (real users)
seem to think the same.

I just wish that we had consulted more than the 14 people who voted on
the poll about this change, and also got the approval from GNOME/KDE
etc. prior to changing something as major as this.

14 people out of the millions of en_GB speakers (and derivatives) is not
enough of a mandate to change things.
Bruce Cowan <https://launchpad.net/people/bruce89>
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