Perhaps it would be wise to open #Ubuntu-LTS?

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

>> I have to disagree with this proposal mainly because there aren't too many
>> release-specific issues that pop up in #ubuntu that aren't in the release
>> notes.  #ubuntu+1 deals with issues specific to using an unstable version,

Many more release-spesific issues are on the wiki and help, and on
blogs and diverse ubuntu-related sites on the internet. What's your
point; are we going to tell users to RTFM?

>> issues that are usually different than #ubuntu.  #kubuntu, #xubuntu (are
>> there more?) deal with different desktop environments.  #ubuntu-server,
>> again focuses on very specific tasks.  With an LTS release however, what
>> sort of issues come up to warrant a channel separate from #ubuntu?  I'm sure
>> I could name a handful, but not much more.

The desktop has changed rather dramatically over the last few
releases, and will probably change even more in the releases to come.
Applications are changed too. Hardy still used Pidgin as the default
IM client, didn't it? I certainly don't remember the GUI of Pidgin by
heart anymore, so I wouldn't be of much use. Ekiga? Permissions to
shutdown the computer even if other people are logged in? There are so
many things about hardy I can no longer remember. When 12.04 is
released, we won't have statusbars and we'll have windicators,
application transient notifications, etc. The panels, if they're still
there, will have changed dramatically. I certainly won't remember the
details of how the panels were setup in lucid. No way. Some very
hardcore helpers run different versions of Ubuntu in virtual machines
so that they can help people with old desktop installs, but they're
few and far between.

>> But there are other reasons too.
>>
>> Creating a #ubuntu-lts channel and shuffling LTS users there splits the
>> users providing support into two channels.  This makes it harder to get
>> support, unless the user asks in both channels which defeats the purpose of
>> the channel.

I don't agree. It should be safe to assume that most questions about
Ubuntu desktop will be completely irrelevant in 2-3 years, which is
the common lifespan of a normal LTS installation. The LTS channel
should be the primary channel for LTS users, but if they don't get an
answer there, they might still want to ask in the broader #ubuntu
channel. We would still have reduced the load on the main channel
considerably though.

>> On top of that, it will create more non-support chatter in #ubuntu due to
>> all of the "forwarding traffic" like #ubuntu+1 already does.

That's a valid point. However, if that really becomes a problem, then
it also means there are so many people asking for help with an LTS, we
really do need a separate channel for it.

>> I think that if an LTS user simply announces he is using an LTS release in
>> #ubuntu it accomplishes what #ubuntu-lts hopes to accomplish, namely having
>> other LTS users to talk to.

Have you ever tried that in practice on #Ubuntu? You should. It's not
as easy as it sounds. Most of the people who are enthusiastic enough
to be helping out on IRC, are also enthusiastic enough to always
upgrade to the newest Ubuntu. Unless they have extraordinary mental
skills, they will have forgotten the specifics of the details of 4-5
cycle old releases.

>> That's my two cents.  In the end, I don't think LTS is different enough from
>> the other supported releases to really benefit from a separate channel.
>> However, a lot of people seem to be supporting the idea, so I wouldn't
>> object to a trial period of a week or two to see how things work out.
>>
>> jrib

A week or two would make no sense, as it would take much more time to
build a community that's actually helpful.

>
> Have to agree with jrib, I don't think "splitting" #ubuntu to -lts
> would solve anything, what I actually would recommend, the people who
> want to help more efficiently in #ubuntu and #kubuntu, whether it's
> LTS or whatever, please use our great #ubuntu-meta channel.

> #ubuntu-meta provides asked (and unanswered) questions nicely without
> extra noise, in easily parseable form, and really is underused at this
> point. I would love to see more irc support helpers using that,
> instead of asking yet another channel.

I wasn't aware of that channel, so I'll have to look into it. But it
doesn't seem to me a natural competitor to a channel where people
using the same operating system can help one another. Because that is
my view; Hardy and Karmic are two fairly different operating systems,
even if they're both called Ubuntu and uses Gnome as their desktop.

> --
> Jussi Kekkonen, Tm_T
> Ubuntu/KDE developer  tmt at ubuntu.com