<div dir="ltr">I agree with what you say, but you didn't argue about my approach, you debated another point which is very interesting to me too.<br><br>Who knows if the OpenSource really doesn't have backdoors? If you want to take the risk, you can just depend on whoever checks the source code....if you don't want to take the risk, you could check it...moreover, Who knows if the OS compiled on your machine is the same? Again, that's another choice to make, do I compile it? Do I trust whoever did?<br>
<br>Currently, in my stage, I'm still developing/reading the source code of a famous microkernel...Minix....which should take me to a tougher kernel, perhaps Linux...or another Microkernel....but until then, I have no choice....unless perhaps to compile the ubuntu source code....which seems rather pointless because I don't know what I've compiled....That's my personal story<br>
<br>The original debate's reply with an added challenge....Even if we checked and compiled every single OpenSource program on our PC's and Cellphones, we would still have ClosedSource software to deal with....not to mention the hardware....even if you tamper with the hardware, which is not possible in all cases....there might be a misleading chip that you do not know much about, if you remove it, it would disable the cellphone...what would you do then?<br>
<br>All these questions and challenges lead us to one answer.....Do What You Can! If you can do something to protect yourself, anything, do it....taking the risk isn't a good option, it shouldn't be an option in the first place, but let's just say it's not a good option.<br>
<br>Security theoretically doesn't exist in a pure form, as a challenge, people say that there is doesn't exist a 100% secure system....though things like OTP (which are very old but still used in secret agencies) (I know that because I've read an article yesterday and had a debate over it, I'm not a security expert)...challenge that very sentence, but let's just say "There isn't a 100% secure system"...<br>
<br>Ok, we accepted that....but does that mean, since everything can be hacked, that we don't need security? What do we do?...the answer is "Do What You Can!"<br><br>So allow me to collectively answer your email with that sentence....no need to kill yourself over security and in the end there are ways to still bypass your methods, but "Do What You Can!"<br>
<br>Google's power isn't ok for me, I prefer distributing parts of my e-life around so that no one has it all....there are ways for people to go around it, but "I'm Doing What I Can!"...at least concerning the google issue<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amahdy7@gmail.com">amahdy7@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000066"><font size="2"><font face="courier new,monospace">In fact, and you know that, Android and Simbian are OpenSource, and you can have full control on your small computer (the smart phone) if you are using any of those OS's. But following the "mo2mra" theory, one of the phone manufactures decided to put an extra tracking/spying piece of code (or hardware), you can never tell, and you have to relay on the QC (FCC, FDA, ...etc).<br>
<br>The men responsible of pen tracing the Linux code, may get paid (following the mo2mra theory also), to let a piece of spying code be installed on all of our machines. (Anybody can pen trace, but nobody does ... and nobody is able to do that for the ISO that you download from Ubuntu or Fedora for example, it's already compiled and closed ,,, only few who get a kernel source, compile it, and compile on top of it all what they need, but they can never read all the source code of everything to make sure that there isn't a spy code somewhere). Did you read <a href="http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2" target="_blank">this</a> before? OpenBSD contained a backdoor "in the opensource implementation of IPSec" for TEN years.<br>
<br>I'll remind you what I said before, Google's power is ok for me as far as it's not the only power and there is good potential and competitive alternatives.<br><br>So let's imagine this situation, (who knows may it will happen one day =)), you are the CEO of Google and you want to please your concepts, so what would you change in Google's strategies? putting in mind that you have the responsibility of:<br>
(1) Getting a good revenue for the company to survive.<br>(2) Getting a good impact from the company to grow (not disappear like MySpace for example).<br><br><br clear="all"></font></font></font><div class="im"><div dir="ltr">
<span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:courier new,monospace"><br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-- Amahdy AbdElAziz</span><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)"><a style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)" href="http://www.amahdy.net" target="_blank">http://www.amahdy.net</a><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace">
</span></div><br>
<br><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 05:29, Processing Qbits <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:processingqbits@gmail.com" target="_blank">processingqbits@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I believe businessmen usually do have more than one cellphone (though they have it for a different reason and that reason is probably fading with cellphones having the capability to use more than one chip) but then again, a cellphone is more like a computer<br>
Why do I choose Linux over Windows? It gives me more control over my computer....anything that goes wrong, anything that I wish to change...I am able to<br>So if I have similar control over my cellphone, I believe it would be like my computer...<br>
<br>As much as I respect google, I fear that it is gaining too much power, but I guess I have to respect other people's opinions too...while your approach is "if you don't want your secret to be out there, don't put it there"....my approach would be "if you don't want one company to hold all your secrets, give a piece to each so that none has it all"<br>
<br>Your approach: Security by Obscurity<br>My approach is similar to anonymous emails through 2 or more remailers....the first will have your real email but your encrypted message....the last will have your real message and the person it is being sent to but not your own email<br>
<br>So I'll just agree to disagree!<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amahdy7@gmail.com" target="_blank">amahdy7@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000066"><font size="2"><font face="courier new,monospace">+Islam: Yes I see your point, I mean the mobile that you mentioned, usually contains very sensitive data maybe more than the whole web (it contains phone numbers of family, friends, SMS, ..etc) and the more advanced is the phone, the more information it has, (like emails, businesses, calendar, memo, ... NFC? ... location, pictures, ...etc)<br>
Ok so Google is a bad company, I'm not going to use Android, I'm going to use what? Simbian? Windows7? iOS? RIM? ...etc? it's all the same, the individual IMO has to choose a company and relay on it (give it some trust) [[of course to some extend, I'm saying being cautious from the beginning]]. IMO also, I won't get Android for family usage, iOS for business, Simbian for friends ...etc, no I'll choose one only company at my own risk... or else everybody should not use technology because it's risky.<br>
<br>One more interesting example of what Google does, is the monthly email they send to me about "Your Latitude Service is ON, be careful!" it's like asking "So,, are you going to turn off the latitude account?" my answer is always NO keep it ON, I'll never go near "El Haram Street" so I'm ok with that =))<br clear="all">
</font></font></font><div><div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-- Amahdy AbdElAziz</span><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">
<a style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)" href="http://www.amahdy.net" target="_blank">http://www.amahdy.net</a><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace"></span></div><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2011/7/2 Islam Hassan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eng.islam_hassan@hotmail.com" target="_blank">eng.islam_hassan@hotmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">
@Amahdy: I'm not saying that they're doing that or they're gonna do that, I'm just, as I said, imagining what they can do with it and no one can say they can't. In my opinion, why should any one take the risk, as developers or engineers, we always consider the worst case.<br>
<br><div><hr>From: <a href="mailto:amahdy7@gmail.com" target="_blank">amahdy7@gmail.com</a><br>Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 05:57:52 +0300<br>Subject: Re: Online Meeting<br>To: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
<br><div dir="ltr"><font color="#000066"><font size="2"><font face="courier new,monospace">+Islam: I believe NOT in the "mo2amra" theory :D, if I'm one of America's enemy then my e-life doesn't add for them anything. Yes Google may decide to spy on me, but who may not? I don't have the capability to fabricate my own cell phone yet so I have to relay on some companies to do that for me ... :))<br>
<br>One of the interesting things made by G+ (yes -so far- they listen and they care up to a very high limit):<br><i><br></i></font></font></font><blockquote style="padding-left:1ex">
<font color="#000066"><font size="2"><font face="courier new,monospace"><i>If
you're sharing a post with a small circle of people, you can prevent
resharing. Click the arrow at the top-right of the post and choose
"Disable reshare."</i></font></font></font><br></blockquote><font color="#000066"><font size="2"><font face="courier new,monospace"><br>Will solve the "Send something private to someone, and he FWD's it".<br>
This is not an ultimate solution BTW, he still can copy the content and post it again...<br></font></font></font><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></span><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-- Amahdy AbdElAziz</span><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">
<a style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0)" href="http://www.amahdy.net" target="_blank">http://www.amahdy.net</a><br style="color:rgb(0, 0, 102);font-family:courier new,monospace"></span></div><br>
<br><br><div>2011/7/2 Islam Hassan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eng.islam_hassan@hotmail.com" target="_blank">eng.islam_hassan@hotmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote style="padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr">
@Amahdy:<div>* You say you don't mind if any body else knows what you're doing, that doesn't mean every on feels the same.</div><div>* Google CAN know what's going on in your house and between you and your friends. How? Google Android @ Home and Google open accessories CAN CONTROL what happens in your home.</div>
<div>* Imagine that google or the american government for example has an enemy. they can track his location and even kill him and make it look like an accident. and by enemy I mean any one who'd be a pain in the throat like some activist or something like that ( I'm just going as far as I can imagine). let's say the american government decide to keep track of all arabs or muslims inside the US for security purposes or something. they can listen to what you do by activating the microphone in your android phone or any thing like that. use your imagination, as I said, when I watched google IO day 1 key note, suddenly, I robot's VIKI jumped into my mind.</div>
</div></div>
<br>--<br>
Ubuntu-eg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>--
Ubuntu-eg mailing list
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a></div> </div></div>
<br>--<br>
Ubuntu-eg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>--<br>
Ubuntu-eg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>--<br>
Ubuntu-eg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>--<br>
Ubuntu-eg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-eg@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>