Online Meeting
Haitham El-Ghareeb
helghareeb at gmail.com
Fri Jul 1 20:01:51 UTC 2011
What nobody can track is what's going on INSIDE my home, BETWEEN my friends, INSIDE my mind...
Are you sure they haven't started doing so yet? Seriously...
Defining Right from Wrong, is a real philosophical issue. You can't simply inform me to do right things. What is right and wrong. Stimulating people for the Egyptian Revolution before 25 Jan, was it considered 'Right' before that date?
Let's see what is going to happen in the coming Technological Years, which is for sure, shorter than what we expect :)
Thanks for your reply.
On 1 Jul 2011, at 11:48 PM, "Angie T. Muhammad" <angie.tawfik at gmail.com> wrote:
> if anyone in the world is interested enough to sit next to me and see everything I do over my laptop, then he will be more than welcome, no problem for me ;-)
>
>
>
> So may I come over and watch you while you are purchasing an ebook online? I can easily memorize your credit /debit card data and financial info.
>
> Prevention is better than cure. Privacy is a concept that must be maintained in real and e-life.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 11:40 PM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> +Haitham: I completely agree with #1, and I'll explain my point in this next reply concerning #2:
>
> +Qbits: I slightly disagree with you, I read your posts but no I'm not shutting my eyes. I said earlier (if proved I'll sue them) about privacy and stuff like that...
>
> It's just like having someone tracking you and keep records of each thing you do in your real life (which roads you take, where you go, who you meet, what's your family members ...etc). If someone has free time enough to do that then I have no single problem because he will write something like "Go to work, Hang out with friends, Go Home, ...etc" ,, nothing that may interest anybody in the world (Is he going to write my daily memo for me??). But while I may be walking in public roads, and using public transportations, and go to public places, if I noticed that someone is really tracking this all I'll definitely sue him, that's by nature.
>
> A company like Google for example, lets you turn off tracking and history of all its products, if proved that they don't really turn it off then I'll sue them (even though I don't care, but it's matter of principals and some "privacy").
>
> What nobody can track is what's going on INSIDE my home, BETWEEN my friends, INSIDE my mind ... but let's see all the Google products you mentioned, what's the problem if they know my blogs, my videos that I watch, my Buzz, my email address, and even my location (via latitude), I'm not that famous to care :) (But again, if proved, I'll sue them).
>
> If I care about having a secret email, I'll never write something like "MySecretEmail = secret at top.secure" anywhere, isn't it?
>
> Finally you mentioned "ideas that I've debated (like this one)", if you don't use a GMail and someone in the list does, isn't that sound like Google got the information after all? the information is originally public and anyone can easily access it, the spiders before humans too.
>
> So basically, I don't see any reason make me want to live a secret agent, if anyone in the world is interested enough to sit next to me and see everything I do over my laptop, then he will be more than welcome, no problem for me ;-)
>
>
> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
> http://www.amahdy.net
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 20:37, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
> As much as I appreciate and love having these debates, I have argued a lot about this, that's why I provided two links to the posts I've written about this matter.
>
> I completely agree with the idea of having more options, it's the reason I support Diaspora over facebook and google+, it's the reason I don't want to have all my data logged by one company and it is the reason that I fear, one entity changes its views/sells its soul/or gets hacked, would endanger my whole e-life.
>
> Google is a respectable company, it deserves all salutation from me, I'm not pointing at it and saying it's a bad thing, neither am I holding a "boycott google" mission here. What worries me most is one company having all sorts of logs on me. One company that through it, they can know everything about me, my name, DOB, emails, addresses, pictures, family members, friends, friends of friends and their families, any secret emails (one simply can't stop sending secrets online, sometimes you even send something and wish to take it back), interests, videos that I've watched, things that I've searched, ideas that I've debated (like this one), my blogs, work that I've submitted, work that I'm thinking of submitting, ideas that I want to work in.....if you tell me, all this doesn't matter....you're just shutting your eyes
>
> Chromium OS to gmail to youtube, to google search engines, to google+, to google maps, to google's android.....a lovely google integrated e-life, may be for some, but for me, it'll always be my utmost fear, putting all my private information in one bucket
>
> My solution, use a different OS if you're going to use gmail....use a different search engine if you're using google+....use a different social network if you're using google's android....mix things up a little bit....at least yahoo won't know your private information while you search, google won't differ between your family, friends and interests that much...facebook won't know what you secretly say in emails....
>
> And yet again, you can look at my World War III theory....in the first link
>
> Or read a very long debate that I already had on the subject...
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Haitham El-Ghareeb <helghareeb at gmail.com> wrote:
> So, I believe this discussion is moving in two different, however parallel topics now:
> 1 - The idea of Google versus Others
> 2 - The idea of logging every single move we make online
>
> For the first Topic, You argue that Google is better than others. You are right to some extent, because Google took many initiatives 'you mentioned plenty of them', all of us respect Google, but I'm seriously worried because I think they are heading fast to the buckets part now. I prefer Google myself, with precautions.
>
> 2 - Regarding this point, I completely disagree. I don't agree to have every single activitiy of mine logged, just because they provide me the service. I'll not dig to the 'doing something wrong' so this doesn't turn personal, and I will not reply to this too. Logging every single action is something that is leading to places.... You know, may be you tell us what would you do with such data? Please, I'm interested to know if you hold this data, how would you benefit from it?
>
> Regards
> Haitham
>
> On 1 Jul 2011, at 08:39 PM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, exactly, and so what? if they log every single action I do over Internet (if proved I'll sue them) but I don't actually care and I don't understand why should someone care?
>> In the other hand, my data is in one only hand that I cautiously relay -for now-, instead of duplicating my data across many companies...
>>
>> When you distribute something, it's better to distribute it over many baskets (don't put all your fortune in one bank, but many different banks, so that if one bank got robbed, you'll still have some money somewhere else)
>>
>> But when you just want to store information, it's better to keep it in one only place (when you store your credit card information in many merchants, the probability of getting it stolen increases, but when you use Google Checkout only (or paypal, or amazon, or ...etc) only for all your e-purchases, then it depends on your luck having this 3rd party hacked)
>>
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 19:24, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, I wasn't the one debating open/closed source. I was worried about having all my information and actions logged by one company...google
>>
>> Remember our experience with a lot of power, in only one hand
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> *sorry the bank was bankrupted...
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 19:18, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try at your own risk, there is no single guarantee that they will remain "secret".
>> Sometimes we prefer sacrificing with something to get benefit and advantage of something else, rule for the life not the "e-" section only :)
>>
>> - What if someone successfully hacked an internet banking server?
>> - What if someone successfully rubbed the central bank that holds your money and the money was bankrupted?
>>
>> See, it's a life-related rule, has nothing to do with Closed/Open companies ;-)
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 19:09, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah, unfortunately, my good fellow, your view of the electronic world seems very constricted.
>>
>> "You shouldn't do something secret over the web"....
>> So you're against e-businesses including all forms of online transactions and ebanking, you're against confidential emails? Aren't all these forms of secrets to be kept hidden?
>>
>> I'm sorry, but this is not a strong argument for you at all, it's true that if one wants to keep a secret online, it might be very hard and at times close to impossible, but to not even try?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have many examples on why you shouldn't do something secret over the web, even if you are using Open Source software built by you! Here is some of them:
>>
>> 1) You are sending and email to a close friend with sensitive information along with general information, he accidentally publicly share the email.
>> [[For example you send some love words to your fiancée and a picture of a flower, she liked that flower that she shared the email over Facebook,, so embarrassing]]
>>
>> 2) You send an email to seomone "A" and BCC someone else "B", "B" replies to all...
>>
>> 3) You are sending sensitive information over chat, and due to some bug, the information is sent to someone else!
>>
>> 4) You are storing your secrets on your own server and it got hacked!!
>>
>> 5) You decided to encrypt your own secret data and store them on the server, someone was able to predict your password after hacking your server (happens)...
>>
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 18:46, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Okay so are you afraid from having someone tracking you or keeping a log of what you are doing? why should you be afraid from that, are you doing something wrong? if you don't want someone know what you are doing then IMHO you shouldn't be doing it from the beginning, specially, over the web!
>>
>> If you want to use a Canonical-hosted mail server instead of Google-hosted one, so how can you guarantee that Canonical won't one day keep log of your emails, not all of us can buy and configure his own mail server, and if it's not a physical server at your home (e.g. you have your own server managed by some hosting company) then you can't guarantee that this hosting company is not spying on you.
>>
>> So again if you are doing something wrong then stop doing it, I don't mean any of you is doing something wrong, but I'm just explaining my point...
>>
>> We all need all the time someone to manage some parts of our life, we can't do everything all the time, so we need to relay on someone to do that for us, for example I can't pen trace all the Ubuntu code to make sure that there isn't a back door somewhere, so I have to relay on some others who did so (who knows maybe they are paid to stay calm?? ,, I don't care, simply because all what I'm doing on my laptop is open to everybody, I have no problem on that).
>>
>> I like Google -for now- because they believe in the Open Source, they started many many many Open Source projects along with their patches for Open Source projects like the Linux Kernel, the Ubuntu project itself, and many other small and big projects (Eclipse, Apache, Mozilla, KDE, Gnome, Drupal, and many much more) [[Yes they are still submitting patches for Firefox too!]]
>>
>> I also like the data liberation concept that Google has, the data ownership to the user, but I also agree at the end of the day that we should be cautious, if we don't like something then we can simply raise our hands and let them know and it's proven that they respond (so far).
>>
>> Personly, I completely understand that any company needs "Money" to survive and continue innovation, so I don't mind that Google collect some bucks from here and there so that they can deliver the quality that I want. They actually helped me a lot with this new product G+, so that I'm finally able to have a e-social life.
>> BTW, this applied also for SUN, and currently apply also for IBM, RedHat, FixedSolutions, and many similar Companies that believe and encourage the OpenSource and need to collect some bucks at the same time!
>>
>> Sorry for the long email, but I'd like also to mention one small experience:
>>
>> - I like the fact that when I post something "Public" at G+, everybody that uses Internet can see it, event if he doesn't have a Gmail account. But something like Facebook won't show more than my profile picture, some of my interests, and a box asking to Sign Up first! (Hey, it's my data that I want to share with everybody, not yours to block it from people!!)
>>
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 16:04, Haitham El-Ghareeb <helghareeb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Checking, Thanks.
>>
>> On 1 Jul 2011, at 05:51 PM, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There are a lot that we can do....Don't keep all your eggs in one basket...And there is no need to actually put all the eggs in baskets, some eggs are better kept in the nest
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Haitham El-Ghareeb <helghareeb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> and there is nothing we can do, right? I wish I can stay away from facebook, Google +, or twitter but I can't. All my friends, students, and social life is there now. Just feeling so confused about that. Wanted to share it here :)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On 1 Jul 2011, at 05:39 PM, "Jonathan N. Hindi" <jonathan.hindi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +Islam Hassan, You are very right :)
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>> Jonathan N. Hindi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/7/1 Islam Hassan <eng.islam_hassan at hotmail.com>
>>>> You forgot to mention the most two scary things about Google: First, Google Chrome OS depends completely on the cloud, that means every thing related to you is on Google servers. Second Google Android @ home & Google Android Open Accessory, Google will control every thing in your house. After watching Google IO day one keynote, what I had in mind was Umbrella from resident evil and USR's VIKI from I,Robot.
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Online Meeting
>>>> From: helghareeb at gmail.com
>>>> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 16:29:11 +0300
>>>>
>>>> To: ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>
>>>> @Ahmed Toulan +1
>>>> Yes this is what I meant, and sorry for the late reply. We are gathering to show the evilness of one vendor, that is Microsoft, and there is another one 'Google' is trying hardly to catch everywhere it can, OS, Mail, Social Media, Web browser, everywhere. That can't be right !!! It's like I'm surrounded with Google everywhere, till now no one has anything against Google, just I'm so worried that we are being caught.
>>>>
>>>> On 1 Jul 2011, at 05:10 PM, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's why I believe more in Diaspora
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Ahmed Kamal <email.ahmedkamal at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> um but "Google lets you save a backup of your photos, profile information, contacts, circles, stream posts, and Buzz posts to your computer" on https://plus.google.com/u/0/settings/exportdata doesn't sound too bad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Ahmed Toulan <thelinuxer at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>> Well I think what he meant was that we are doing a different kind of vendor locking badro. Like you were locked to the windows platform one day, today you'll be locked inside the Google platform. And this is a real serious issue if you ask me, a real valid concern...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I didn't get that, would you be so kind as to elaborate more?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Haitham El-Ghareeb <helghareeb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lets hope not, I'm completely disappointed with this product, not from features side, but from the Open Web side, it's really getting serious that we are moving from a single Microsoft, to plenty of it!!!
>>>>
>>>> On 1 Jul 2011, at 03:13 PM, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Google is putting up a strong fight against facebook...Diaspora and Google+
>>>> I actually have more faith in Diaspora, although it seems that Google+ will be ready before it
>>>>
>>>> 2011/7/1 Islam Hassan <eng.islam_hassan at hotmail.com>
>>>> Right now many of us don't have access to google+, but it's gonna be awesome to use it when it goes public.
>>>>
>>>> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 14:44:06 +0300
>>>> Subject: Re: Online Meeting
>>>> From: thelinuxer at ubuntu.com
>>>> To: ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally I think we might use it in the future
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Processing Qbits <processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't have access to Google+ too...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Mohamed El-Feky <elfeky.m at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> +1 for me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Jonathan N. Hindi <jonathan.hindi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't think that all the team have access to Google+ ?
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>> Jonathan N. Hindi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Karim Ahmed <just.azzurri at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think it's a good idea if we organize Online Meeting at Google+ via Hangouts :)
>>>> so what's your opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Karim Ahmed,
>>>> Google student ambassador
>>>> My profiles:
>>>> Signature powered by WiseStamp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards..,
>>>> Mohamed El-Feky
>>>> +2-0100930986
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Ubuntu-eg mailing list Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>> -- Ubuntu-eg mailing list Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
>> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>
> --
> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
>
>
>
>
> --
> All the best,
> Angie T. Muhammad
> http://angie-tawfik.blogspot.com
>
> --
> Ubuntu-eg mailing list
> Ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-eg
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-eg/attachments/20110701/78a76938/attachment.html>
More information about the Ubuntu-eg
mailing list