<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/3.16.1"> </HEAD> <BODY> Marc, I think you're being too defensive about this, I can appreciate your PoV but I do think that Bryce has a valid point. I'm not objecting to the front page just stating that perhaps we could review our process. That being said, we're discussing your proposal to change the wiki/help pages around and I'm just applying the CoC - "When you disagree, consult others", three of us have voiced concerns. Regards, Dougie Richardson (dougie@lynxworks.eu), sent from my Aspire One - excuse the msipellings. ----- Original message ----- Sent: 2008/11/05 11:58:26 Subject: Re:Re: Replace wiki.ubuntu.com with help.ubuntu.com/commmunity On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Dougie Richardson wrote: > Hi Marc, > > Bryce has a valid point, since the wiki is team oriented, any changes to the start page should perhaps be offered to a wider audience than our mailing list and this is something to consider for the future. Not everyone is subscribed to every page, especially when visiting other team's pages. > > Could a change like this be mentioned in a banner or such like on the start page? > > Regards, > > Dougie > > I have as much authority as the Pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it. > > > (George Carlin) Dougie, Yes, I do agree that a banner or comment on the actual home page itself might have been a good idea, and is certainly a good idea for future modifications I would like to point out to that I did send out the email listed here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2008-October/011886.html And that I sent a notification of this change to the various mailing lists. Should I have followed up to make sure that the message got through to the various recipients by checking on their archives? Yes. Might the contacting of the teams require me to sign up for every mailing list if the message gets rejected? I would ask why should a team say to contact them by mailing list if only to reject messages from non-mailing list members without any form of review (but that is a discussion for another time). Even if I put the change in bright, big neon colors that were flashing and said "This page is being considered for change" and I waited a month, there would still be people who would come out of the woodwork two/three/four months later saying, "What did you do to the Home Page?", etc..... To my knowledge, there is absolutely no way of contacting each and every member of every team. No "community-wide" mailing list. The closest thing I can think of, which I only recently discovered, and comes even remotely close, is Planet Ubuntu. But, even there, it is not a guarantee that everyone affected would see the communication. Please keep in mind that most people who are coming to the team wiki are already members of a Team and are going directly to their own team's home page. This Home Page was optimized for new visitors who have absolutely no idea where they are, or where to go, or stumble onto wiki.ubuntu.com when they really need help.ubuntu.com. The Team listings from the Home Page were moved to the page wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams to streamline the information and centralize them. The reactions I have been getting for that page from Team Leaders has been nothing short of rave reviews. The release schedule is maintained on its own page, so that was a duplication. The same is true for the community information regarding the different councils as the official documentation was moved out of the wiki and is now maintained on the website. Is everyone going to be pleased? Unfortunately not and my getting defensive about this is not going to that. Please know that I am open to listening to comments and criticisms, as well as explore new ideas and compromises. Perhaps we need to come up with an SOP for changing the Home Page to prevent this from reoccurring, and display it prominently on the page to prevent this in the future. But, then....who makes that SOP? How would a community-wide vote like that take place? Maybe the Home Page should be set so that only Administrators and/or Team Leaders can make the changes to it. Again, these are good ideas, but who makes the final determination? Is this something to be offered up to the Leadership Council? I'm open to suggestions. Marc K. </BODY> </HTML>