Ubuntu: A Beginners Guide

Tue Jan 5 02:33:13 UTC 2010

*"First off, I am not complaining. It was new to me and a shock at the same
time, as I hadn't heard of it prior to the article linked on
**lxer.com*<http://lxer.com>
*
stating it was official."*

Sorry, no worries. I hadn't heard of that article until you told me just
now, I've commented on the article and pointed out the errors to the author
- hopefully he'll change them.

*"If this is in fact the case, wouldn't it make sense to work on creating an
easy way to access the already existing documentation? Instead of possibly
creating yet another document that may just as well be as difficult to
access? In GNOME I believe there is an icon at the top for help, as I know
there is one in the menu for KDE, so it can't be all that difficult to
locate."*
*
*
*You could argue that this is a possibility. I actually don't have an answer
for you. I decided last year to write my own manual, similar to Keir Thomas'
"The Ubuntu Pocket Guide" - it was going to written by me only, and
closed-source until it was released. But, I soon realized that this would be
a bit too much work for me, and it would be a lot more beneficial if I
opened it up to contributions from the community. This way we would also
have a better overall document as well. I talked to Jono Bacon about this
idea before I even created the Project page/wiki etc etc and he thought it
was a great idea. I went on that.*
*
*
*I am aware of the help inside Ubuntu - to be honest, I don't rate it that
highly as far as inbuilt OS help pages go. It needs a lot of work to become
useful, in my opinion. I will consider helping out with that after we've got
this release out.*
*
*
*"I was just trying to find out where to download the book, as it was
available for download before, but I cannot find it. However, every day
users who are switching, and you can read some of the stories in the forums
and in their blog posts, is because they are tired of $x being slow or
riddled with viruses and what not. Free as in free beer is just a benefit."*
*
*
*I agree, that's why I said "one of the reasons" - not the sole reason. But
even then, Windows and Mac users aren't expected to purchase a book to get
help with their new Operating System, and neither should Ubuntu users.*
*
*
*"While I applaud your attempt at the justification, it still isn't
justifiable as an official project (yet?). In the subtopic of how it
differs from all other publications, you pretty much state what the Ubuntu
Documentation Project is. In the second subtopic concerning how it differs
from Ubuntu Docs, the first point is wrong, as Ubuntu Documentation is in 2
places, 1 is locally installed and the other is help.ubuntu.com. The other
3 points in that subtopic though I feel are genuine issues with our current
documentation, and feel that it is something that we need to address."*
*
*
*I can work on the justification if you like, but we could sit here all day
arguing about it. I'll fix the error about the documentation being located
in two parts. I was just referring to the community documentation as a
whole.*
*
*
*Of course this is all a matter of opinion - myself and plenty of other
people feel that this manual is a great contribution. It's a bit
dis-heartening to spend all this time and effort creating the project, but
then to be told that it's basically worthless.*
*
*
*"I apologize for not making myself a little more reachable on IRC or read*
*this mailing list more than I do. I spend most of my time as a Core
Developer for both the Ubuntu/Kubuntu project as well as the KDE project,
so 1,000 plus emails a day gets distracting :)"*
*
*
*Fair enough, I'm fairly busy as well, you only need to take a look at the
wiki page or Launchpad blueprints to see how much time I've spent getting
this project up and running. And, of course I have a life outside of Ubuntu
as well that often needs attention :)*
*
*
*"As a long time contributor to open source projects, I was just worried
about a reinvention of the documentation wheel, which has yet to prove
successful for anyone as of yet. We want all of our documentation easily
accessible, and in one location would be best, whether it was via Yelp
(GNOME) or KHelpCenter (KDE) or even help.ubuntu.com, however creating yet
another document that attempts to fix this issue, kind of worries me at
best."*
*
*
*That's cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion. What I want to make
clear is that we are not trying to replace the Community Documentation
that's already there with our Project. We are trying to supplement it, and
condense it into an easy to access PDF file. It has been proven before that
PDF manuals can be successful, "The Ubuntu Pocket Guide" is a good example
of that. *
*
*
*We want to work with the Community Docs team on this project, but on the
whole it is a completely different project. The Community Docs are topic
based help files, and at least the wiki stuff is far more detailed than we
want in our manual.*
*
*
*The problem with the documentation at the moment is that it's sort of like
"here, click here if you want help, then find the topic in this huge
database of stuff" - whereas our PDF will be "click me to download
everything you need to know in one file."*
*
*
*Either way, we're going ahead with the project and come Lucid, we'll have
something amazing to show everyone. Perhaps at that time, it might be a good
idea to consider including it in Ubuntu, at least as sample content. Hey,
maybe even make it available to read while Ubuntu is installing.*
*
*
*And, if Ubuntu really does take off, and Canonical have some money to spend
on printing costs (yeah this is way down the line) then we could cut down
the manual into another version that can be distributed as a Quick Start
guide with the CD. Like how Microsoft and Apple do when you buy a copy of
Windows/Mac OSX.*
*
*
*If you would like to talk some more about this, then it might be easier to
have a chat on IRC if you've got time. It just saves all this quoting etc.
My username is humphreybc.*
*
*
*Thanks
*
*
*
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Richard JOHNSON <nixternal at ubuntu.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:13:02PM +1300, Benjamin Humphrey wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> >
> > This would be about the tenth time I've had people complaining that
> > it's an unnecessary project. There seem to be two sides, people who
> > think it's great, people who think it's not. Strangely, Canonical
> > employees and general Ubuntu well-doers are fairly mixed from my
> > perspective - I ran the project past several people before I started
> > it, including Jono Bacon, and all my responses were positive.
>
> First off, I am not complaining. It was new to me and a shock at the same
> time, as I hadn't heard of it prior to the article linked on lxer.com
> stating it was official.
>
> > The simple fact is that the documentation out there at the moment,
> > while it's fantastic, it's not easy to access and blindingly obvious
> > to a complete Ubuntu newcomer.
>
> If this is in fact the case, wouldn't it make sense to work on creating an
> easy way to access the already existing documentation? Instead of possibly
> creating yet another document that may just as well be as difficult to
> access? In GNOME I believe there is an icon at the top for help, as I know
> there is one in the menu for KDE, so it can't be all that difficult to
> locate.
>
> > If you are an every day user and one of the reasons you are switching
> > operating systems from Windows to Ubuntu because it is FREE, then
> > would you go out and pay $35.99USD for a book on how to use it? Not to
> > mention that for people who live outside the US, if you take in the
> > currency conversion and shipping, it would cost a lot more than that -
> > for myself, in New Zealand, it would cost nearly $100. Just to learn
> > my new operating system - no thanks.
>
> I was just trying to find out where to download the book, as it was
> available for download before, but I cannot find it. However, every day
> users who are switching, and you can read some of the stories in the forums
> and in their blog posts, is because they are tired of $x being slow or
> riddled with viruses and what not. Free as in free beer is just a benefit.
>
> > I'm not going to sit here and type out all the justification again in
> > every email, so instead I'd like to point you in the direction of the
> > chapter on the main page of the wiki which is written for this very
> > reason:
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual#Justification
>
> While I applaud your attempt at the justification, it still isn't
> justifiable as an official project (yet?). In the subtopic of how it
> differs from all other publications, you pretty much state what the Ubuntu
> Documentation Project is. In the second subtopic concerning how it differs
> from Ubuntu Docs, the first point is wrong, as Ubuntu Documentation is in 2
> places, 1 is locally installed and the other is help.ubuntu.com. The other
> 3 points in that subtopic though I feel are genuine issues with our current
> documentation, and feel that it is something that we need to address.
>
> > Regarding the official status - I have not seen it referred to as
> > official anywhere - what "places" are you talking about? We have not
> > mentioned the word official anywhere on our wiki, Launchpad profile,
> > mailing list or IRC chatroom.
>
> http://lxer.com/ - it is the 3rd story at this time (20:00 CST). It links
> to
> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/01/official-ubuntu-beginners-manual-coming.html
> which states the official part.
>
> > However, I personally would like to see the final product endorsed by
> > Canonical and included as sample content at least in Lucid. I've tried
> > talking to several people about this, but you are understandably busy
> > after the holiday period.
>
> I apologize for not making myself a little more reachable on IRC or read
> this mailing list more than I do. I spend most of my time as a Core
> Developer for both the Ubuntu/Kubuntu project as well as the KDE project,
> so 1,000 plus emails a day gets distracting :)
>
> > Also - because something didn't work X number of years ago, what makes
> > you think it's not worth a second shot? With the right amount of
> > support and the attitude to succeed, then this could be a very
> > successful project. So far we have had a lot of interest from people
> > willing to contribute, and I am incredibly pleased with the progress
> > being made.
>
> Actually, I agree with you. A perfect example is the Full Circle magazine.
> The marketing team attempted a magazine for 2 to 3 years unsuccessfully,
> and now look, Full Circle rocks!
>
> > We need support from people like you to prevent it from becoming just
> > another failed project.
>
> I have no problem supporting a project, I just fear at this time, it will
> end up being just another justification for the next project maybe, instead
> of contributing to a current project that is trying to fix similar, if not
> the same, issues as this project is. An example is in the book market,
> which I will agree, the Ubuntu books I have seen are reasonably over
> priced. I can go in to my Barnes & Noble or any other book store, even the
> library (which has all of the books for free by the way), and there will be
> anywhere from 5 to 10 different books on Ubuntu. All of the books are well
> written and pretty much provide the same information, so it makes it tough
> for a user to decide which one is right for them. Eventually the same is
> going to happen with documentation, if it isn't happening already.
>
> As a long time contributor to open source projects, I was just worried
> about a reinvention of the documentation wheel, which has yet to prove
> successful for anyone as of yet. We want all of our documentation easily
> accessible, and in one location would be best, whether it was via Yelp
> (GNOME) or KHelpCenter (KDE) or even help.ubuntu.com, however creating yet
> another document that attempts to fix this issue, kind of worries me at
> best.
>
> --
>  Name|  Richard JOHNSON
> Title|  Developer
>  WWW|  http://www.ubuntu.com
> Email|  nixternal at ubuntu.com
> GnuPG|  3578 0981 A21D D662 2A96  7623 F4C1 838C D8C4 4738
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-- 
Benjamin Humphrey

Ubuntu Manual Project Leader
Dunedin, New Zealand

http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual
www.interesting.co.nz
www.benjaminhumphreyphotography.com
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