New Wiki page

[Scott Kitterman]

On Sunday 26 October 2008 14:59, Marc Kaplan wrote:
> Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > I've got plenty to do being a core-dev already.   I don't have time to
> > volunteer in yet another team.
> >
> > Ubuntu brown in the Kubuntu theme is completely unacceptable. The old
> > theme didn't have it.  I think your attitude is dismissive and
> > disrespectful of the Kubuntu community.
> >
> > Please do not destroy our look and feel.  I have refrained from just
> > reverting the change because that isn't how things are supposed to work
> > in Ubuntu.  Please, instead of continued self-justification that you used
> > the right process, accept that your change, no matter how well intended,
> > is problematic for Kubuntu and let's start to figure out how to fix it.
> >
> > Scott K
>
> Scott,
>
> Please understand that it was not, nor has been, my intention to cause
> any issues regarding this.  My goal was to condense and streamline the
> existing home page based on the content that already existed.  To that
> end, I would like to address one thing before informing you how I will
> proceed.  As I stated in my previous email, you claim that "The old
> theme didn't have it."  That is 100% incorrect.

If so, I'm not seeing it.

> In the revision that I directed to, you can see that the color scheme
> that I utilized was indeed visible prior to my changes:
>
> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Home?action=recall&rev=186

I've attached a screenshot of rev 186 with the Kubuntu theme in Konquereor.

> Here is a screen capture of the way the old version looked BEFORE I even
> touched it; in other words, the one you were asking me to, or considering
> reverting back to (note the theme AND URL):
>
> http://technomensch.net/images/ubuntuwiki/kubuntuwiki.png

That's rev 187.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=recall&rev=187 

According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Home?action=info 187 is yours.  187 is 
the one that changed things.

> Rather than simply demanding that I revert to the previous version
> "immediately" or threaten to do it yourself, it might have been a good idea
> to actually look at the previous version first.  All I did was copy the
> code for the table of releases that had previously existed and put it in
> the new version while reducing the number of versions/releases that showed
> up.  I made no changes/additions to the existing color scheme.  I truly
> regret if you did not notice this on the original version prior to my
> changes.  I guess you may not have gone down to the bottom of that page to
> see it.

That isn't how I read the history.  Rev 187 was uploaded with the 
comment "With the launch of the "release candidate", I have now replaced the 
home page with the version developed under Home/PageDiscussion" by 
https://launchpad.net/~marc-kaplan.  That is you, right?

> That is why I became defensive and was quite insulted by your opinion that
> I was "dismissive and direspectful of the Kubuntu community".  This could
> have been brought up at any time long before I even considered making any
> changes or touched the page.  If you should be insulted at anyone, it
> should be whomever put the Release Schedule on that page before I even got
> to work on it, not me.  However, that is water under the bridge and it is
> time to move forward instead of passing blame around.

It's pretty clear that it was not considered how the new design would look in 
the Kubuntu theme.  I'm used to that, but I don't have a lot of patience for 
it.

> If you review my previous emails, the very reason I asked you to send your
> email to the mailing list rather than me directly is so any fellow Kubuntu
> members of our Documentation Team could assist in coming up with a
> suggestion to resolve this in a peaceful and prompt manner.
>
> To that end, I apologize if you feel you were offended by my responses and
> the work that has been done.  In order to appease the Kubuntu community, I
> have discussed your concerns with a fellow member of our team that uses
> Kubuntu exclusively and the Kubuntu Wiki Theme.  Based on her
> recommendations, I have modified the home page to look like this:
>
> http://littlergirl.googlepages.com/KubuntuWikiSolutionMaybe.png
>
> You can now see the result on http://wiki.kubuntu.org or
> http:/wiki.ubuntu.com
>
> Please also know that I made the same changes to the table on
> wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams or in your case, wiki.kubuntu.org/Teams

I believe that it is an improvement.  Thank you.

> On one final note, I think the way you handled this issue was quite
> immature and irresponsible.  This entire thread could have easily been
> prevented if you had both:
>
> - reviewed the previous version before I touched it
> and

I'm still missing where what I objected to wasn't your change and I did, in 
fact review it.

> - instead of complaining, coming up or proposing an alternate color scheme
> and presenting to the Documentation Team.  If you have wiki permissions to
> revert, you could have easily created a version that you could have
> proposed as a substitute instead.

I'm an Ubuntu developer, not a web designer.  I'm also a volunteer with 
limited time.  I continue to hope that Ubuntu oriented members of the 
community will do their work with due consideration of other flavors.  I'm 
also often dissappointed in this regard.

> While I will attempt to keep other themes in mind in my future endeavors, I
> hope you will keep these comments in mind before commenting on something
> you have an issue.

I'm still completely missing where someone else is responsible other than you.  
I'm glad to understand different and I appreciate the effort to improve the 
situation (the wiki changes).  I do not, however, believe that calling other 
people "immature and irresponsible" is productive.

> I sincerely hope that this brings a peaceful resolution to this issue.  If
> you have any additional concerns, unrelated to this, please address them to
> the Documentation Team via our mailing list, not to me individually.

You are responsible for what you do.  If I make a bad upload and break a 
package, I expect to hear about it and not try to shift the blame to an 
entire team.  

Either you are completely misreading what I didn't like or I'm completely 
misreading the wiki history.  At this point I don't know which it is (and if 
I'm misreading the history, then I'm truly sorry I pointed my response at an 
innocent bystander).  

At this point, the design has been improved and it's probably best just to 
drop it.

Scott K
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