{Discussion} Categories

Marc Kaplan ubuntu-doc at technomensch.net
Sun Oct 12 23:35:17 UTC 2008

Little Girl wrote:
> I was under the impression, from reading the archives of this mailing
> list and from reading various PageDiscussion pages, that those pages
> are being done away with and that the recommendation is to
> communicate via this mailing list. Is that not the case?
I am using the PageDiscussion pages more as a "Draft" page. I chose to 
call it PageDiscussion to allow for editing and input by additional 
people. Whether to call the page PageDiscussion or Draft can be left for 
a discussion at a later time. However, know that whenever any page that 
I recommend get officially implemented, the PageDiscussion (ie Draft in 
that case, will be emptied and either deleted or tagged for deletion, so 
as to not confuse future users.  This will be done with 
Home/PageDiscussion and Teams/PageDiscussion on the Team Wiki after the 
launch on 10/30.
> For the record, CategoryDocumentation is being done away with (see
> Use of CategoryDocumentation category here [1] and Removing Unused
> Categories here [2]), although this will take some time. There were
> over nine hundred pages in CategoryDocumentation before I began
> working on them. Any help would be appreciated. (:
I knew I had remembered us discussing removing CategoryDocumentation, but had missed it.  That does make this easier.

> The CategoryCategory page[3] is immutable, and doesn't show
> CategoryProgrammingPython.
I wonder if it has something to do with the Wiki code for the script.  
Actually, here is what I think happened, and if it is, this makes total 
sense on how things would go.

I created CategoryProgramming.  Then, I created the Parent Page "Python" 
within CategoryProgramming and made each of the other pages articles 
under that parent.  In order to make the search code easier so that I 
could make them show up at once on the Python page, I put at the bottom 
of each article CategoryProgrammingPython.  These types of tagging code 
make it simpler to use Wiki Search code to create automatic listing and 
take full advantage of the software's capabilities.
> The one difficulty this will cause is that you may cause users to
> have trouble finding what they need. I know it doesn't seem like it
> when you first think about it, but the more complex you make a
> structure, the more difficult it is to navigate. Not everyone thinks
> the same way, so a name you choose for a category might not be one
> they'd ever associate with $PROGRAM or $FUNCTION. If they don't even
> recognize the subcategory as one they would associate with what
> they're looking for, they may never look there.
> Playing devil's advocate and arguing against myself, the flip-side is
> having categories that are broad and contain large numbers of pages,
> which would also make it hard to find what you're looking for.
I agree completely.  That is why articles can be in multiple 
Categories.  Remember, these are not going to be the be-all, end-all.  
This is just for starters to help bring organization to chaos.  It can 
always be reevaluated and fine-tuned at any point.  I think we have 
smart enough users to help us or point out glaring mistakes.
>> CategoryEvolution should be removed and the articles should fall
>> under CategorySoftwareEmail.
> Agreed. I sent a message to that effect to this mailing list a while
> ago...
Then let's do it.  I removed the CategoryPython.  To remove a category 
from the search, simply remove the tag for it a the bottom of the page.

>> I see no reason to distinguish, via category, whether something is 
>> "Commerical" or "Third-party".  This can be done by link the
>> appropriate article to the appropriate "Parent" if needed.
> You could also, instead, create a Commercial or Third Party tag that
> can be placed on any page containing commercial or third party
> software. Since commercial or third party software performs similar
> functions as free and open source software, it's logical that one
> would find it in the same category/categories as free and open source
> software, since those are categorized by their functions.
I think a "Tag" on the article or section would be a good idea.  But it 
could also fall under the "Unsupported"
>> Now, here's a tricky one: PackageManagement.  I see no reason it
>> could not be under 2 categories, such as: CategorySoftware and 
>> CategoryMaintenance (something similar).
> Package Management is something that comes up often when using or
> discussing Linux. To new users who have not used Linux before,
> package management is a new concept. As such, it's something they are
> likely to look for specifically when they see it mentioned
> elsewhere. You might want to keep that category. You also might want
> to rename it to CategoryPackage, so that no matter how a search is
> done (packages, package management, etc.) the page will be found.
My point is, PackageManagement should be an article, not a Category.  
Determining which Category to put it under, that's the problem.
>> CategoryBootAndPartition, that could go under CategoryMaintenance
>> as well.
> My personal opinion here: I have never, in all the years I've been
> using computers, seen any operating system offer me a Maintenance
> heading on its main menus. I am assuming this will probably be true
> for everyone else as well. Therefore it's unlikely that a person
> using the wiki would do a search on maintenance or look for such a
> category. Just my two cents. (:
Ok.  Works for me.  I'm quite flexible in this regard.
>> Another example of separation might be, instead of having 
>> CategoryXWindowSystem, we might want CategoryDesktopManagers, 
>> CategoryFileManagers, CategoryWindowsManagers, etc.... These would 
>> include items like GNOME, K, xfce,Thundar, Nautalius,
>> accordingly..... This would be a great way to categorize/organize,
>> and help newbies on the differences of each and how they can work
>> on customizing Ubuntu to be their own.
> On this topic I feel that simplification is best. CategoryDesktop
> would be a simplified category that would nicely capture all of
> those, and is something the average user would be likely to look for.
Simplifying it under Parent Pages would, agreed, make things better.  
But I would actual take it one step further by calling it 
CategoryDesktopManagement, or CategoryDesktopCustomization.  I think 
CategoryDesktop would make that way too broad.
> In my travels throughout the wiki, I've found a few immutable pages I'd
> love to edit, but can't. One example is the CategoryCategory
> page[3]. The text at the top of that page is:
> ====================
> A category is a WikiName that exploits WikiWiki's reverse linking: if
> you click on the title of a category page, you'll get a list of pages
> belonging to that category. To get a list of all categories, click
> the CategoryCategory title in the navigation area.
> Additionally, you can add lists of all pages which are members of
> that particular category to the category page using macros like this:
> Here is a list of all categories known to this wiki: 
> ====================
> Do you see the error? I see it, but I can't fix it.
If you check the PageHistory, you'll see that CategoryCategory has never 
been edited.  This is a static Wiki page built into the code.  To get 
wording like that to be changed, I think it might even have to go to the 
MoinMoin developers, not just ours.  I would suggest submitting it as a 
bug through Launchpad.

> <<Snipped for length>>
> My suggestion is:
> 1. Get rid of most of the categories (yes, I know this is a lot of
> work, but I'm willing to help, and have already begun).
> 2. Keep things simple when naming categories.
> 3. Create broad categories with lots of pages in them.
> 4. Make sure to have a category for each of the most commonly
> searched for items.
> My two cents. (:
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/WikiCleanup
> [2] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo/Tags
> [3] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory
> [4]
> http://littlergirl.googlepages.com/CommonQuestions-UbuntuForums.pdf
I was attempting to do something similar, just on a beginning scale.  I 
really like where you've gone with this.

Based on this thought process, it sounds like we have two different type 
of Software Categories:

Applications and Productivity

* Games
* Graphics
* Internet
* Office
* Sound & Video
* Education

- and -

System Settings and Configuration

* System
* Debian
* System Tools
* Settings
* Universal Access

In all honesty, I don't think the second set of menu items actually should fall under "Software", but rather some type of CategorySystem.

I wonder if there is any way to get similar search information for the 
Wiki Search statistics.  Frequently Viewed Pages, etc....

 Reagrding the FAQs, as I have mentioned in the past, I am trying to 
work with QA and the development team to get the Hardware documentation 
away from the wiki into a more centralized and organized location.

Marc Kaplan

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