ubuntu-doc Digest, Vol 37, Issue 1
f.van.der.star at hetnet.nl
f.van.der.star at hetnet.nl
Mon Oct 1 14:29:36 UTC 2007
Good day to you all,
To my perspective I do not see the relevant topic for the few seconds booting a system, although I always respect the developpers and the programmers, who do an excellent job in this field.
I think in general it is important that Ubuntu will be used more on global scale. And to my perspective it is beyond any discussion that common people (=common users) can take step to use linux ubuntu. Still there are some steps to take: For instance the simple installation of the special tar.gz-file of tax-office, which gave me recently some annoying mood. In Microsoft simple mouse-clicks and running!
The above mentioned is just an example. I just like to point out: There is so much to do in this field. So what is the deal of a few seconds difference booting up a system.
Let us concentrate to become real competetive with Microsoft. And I am convinced there are in the Ubuntu-community enough people who have enough competence, knowledge and expertise to cope with this........and for me the booting up may last a few minuits then.
Anyway thanks to all who make Ubuntu reality and more and more better...but the top of the mountain has not been reached yet.
Greetings
Frans van der Star
Netherlands
Linux-Ubuntu-dummy
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Matt Zimmerman)
2. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Ross Peoples)
3. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Dougie Richardson)
4. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Vadim Peretokin)
5. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Matt Zimmerman)
6. Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement (Dougie Richardson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:24:52 +0100
From: Matt Zimmerman <mdz at canonical.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: Dougie Richardson <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>
Cc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek at canonical.com>,
ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID: <20070930142451.GB7774 at alcor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 11:28:22PM +0100, Dougie Richardson wrote:
> No problems really, though having installed the beta and seen the feedback,
> I'm surprised there is no mention of the improvements in boot time - one of
> the biggest complaints always levelled at the distribution. I haven't seen
> much on this anywhere and wondered if it's a product of the new kernel or
> that usplash appears not to be working.
I'm surprised both that you feel boot time is one of the biggest complaints
among users, and that you feel this has changed substantially in 7.10. Can
you expand on those premises?
--
- mdz
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:07:41 -0400
From: Ross Peoples <ubuntu.ross.peoples at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: Dougie Richardson <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>, Steve Langasek
<steve.langasek at canonical.com>, ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID: <46FFBBBD.7030806 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 11:28:22PM +0100, Dougie Richardson wrote:
>> No problems really, though having installed the beta and seen the feedback,
>> I'm surprised there is no mention of the improvements in boot time - one of
>> the biggest complaints always levelled at the distribution. I haven't seen
>> much on this anywhere and wondered if it's a product of the new kernel or
>> that usplash appears not to be working.
>
> I'm surprised both that you feel boot time is one of the biggest complaints
> among users, and that you feel this has changed substantially in 7.10. Can
> you expand on those premises?
>
Well, I know that when there is a Windiows/Linux war going on, the one
thing Windows supporters throw in there as a last breath is load times.
I wouldn't however call it a big complaint among users themselves,
simply because most users leave their computers running all the time,
myself included. Those that don't, mostly laptop users, say that it is
worth the wait, but wouldn't mind a speed increase.
As for the boot times, I have seen a definite speed increase over the
course of Gusty testing. I can't give any numbers, but I would say that,
at least for me, load times were cut at least 15%. I don't know if it's
because of boot changes or driver changes, but it does boot faster.
My two cents.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:15:25 +0100
From: "Dougie Richardson" <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: "Matt Zimmerman" <mdz at canonical.com>
Cc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek at canonical.com>,
ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID: <646A2823F6E64B4284D48B3F4C35689D at HPPavillion>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Matt
> I'm surprised both that you feel boot time is one of the biggest
> complaints
> among users, and that you feel this has changed substantially in 7.10.
> Can
> you expand on those premises?
Biggest complaint: it's often stated in comparison articles, I believe it
was in the recent Mossberg article, although I could be wrong. It comes up
quite frequently in the forums and there are numerous howtos concerning
improving boot times on 7.04. Granted this may be more of a laptop issue,
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=62230
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/tag/feisty-slow-fix/
https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/2485
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2007/04/yesterdays-update-slow-boot.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2114124,00.asp
http://ubuntu-utah.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=531989
Changed substantially: 7.10 is at least twice as fast as 7.04 is to install
and brings up GDM on boot around a minute faster than Fiesty, on my laptop
and desktop.
Dougie Richardson
dougie at lynxworks.eu
http://blog.lynxworks.eu/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:03:01 -0400
From: "Vadim Peretokin" <vperetokin at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: "Dougie Richardson" <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>
Cc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek at canonical.com>,
ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID:
<6995ca080709301303u57eaee84m69bc4516a8ce29c6 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
This is great news for us laptop people for whom hibernate doesn't work
(which results in a lot of shutdown/bootup, since suspend isn't all that
power-saving).
On 9/30/07, Dougie Richardson <ddrichardson at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt
>
> > I'm surprised both that you feel boot time is one of the biggest
> > complaints
> > among users, and that you feel this has changed substantially in 7.10.
> > Can
> > you expand on those premises?
>
> Biggest complaint: it's often stated in comparison articles, I believe it
> was in the recent Mossberg article, although I could be wrong. It comes up
> quite frequently in the forums and there are numerous howtos concerning
> improving boot times on 7.04. Granted this may be more of a laptop issue,
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=62230
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/tag/feisty-slow-fix/
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/2485
>
> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2007/04/yesterdays-update-slow-boot.html
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2114124,00.asp
> http://ubuntu-utah.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=531989
>
> Changed substantially: 7.10 is at least twice as fast as 7.04 is to
> install
> and brings up GDM on boot around a minute faster than Fiesty, on my laptop
> and desktop.
>
> Dougie Richardson
> dougie at lynxworks.eu
> http://blog.lynxworks.eu/
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-doc mailing list
> ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:44:52 +0100
From: Matt Zimmerman <mdz at canonical.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: Dougie Richardson <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>
Cc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek at canonical.com>,
ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID: <20071001094452.GG14244 at alcor.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 06:15:25PM +0100, Dougie Richardson wrote:
>> I'm surprised both that you feel boot time is one of the biggest
>> complaints
>> among users, and that you feel this has changed substantially in 7.10. Can
>> you expand on those premises?
>
> Biggest complaint: it's often stated in comparison articles, I believe it
> was in the recent Mossberg article, although I could be wrong. It comes up
> quite frequently in the forums and there are numerous howtos concerning
> improving boot times on 7.04. Granted this may be more of a laptop issue,
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=62230
The only measurement I see in this thread is 42 seconds, which seems very
respectable. The original post is complaining about Breezy(!).
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/tag/feisty-slow-fix/
The only effect of this "fix" is to bring up the network interface later in
the boot process. I would be curious to know who this helps and why. This
is something which has changed in 7.10.
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/2485
This is a collection of clearly unrelated issues, most of which appear to be
bugs. The main issue being discussed is clearly an outlier (15 minutes to
boot).
> http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2007/04/yesterdays-update-slow-boot.html
This is disconcerting, as it suggests a regression in a 7.04 update. It
claims there is a bug filed, but doesn't link to it or provide a bug number.
/etc/network/interfaces should never be modified by a stable update, though
if the user is using unofficial repositories, anything could happen. It's
similar to "feisty-slow-fix" above in that it suggests fiddling with
/etc/network/interfaces.
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2114124,00.asp
It's true that marginal speedups in boot time can be achieved by disabling
boot scripts, though of course this disables functionality as well, and is
not something we would do by default. The article doesn't say which version
of Ubuntu it refers to, but many of the scripts mentioned are not installed
by default in 7.04 or 7.10 (mdadm, lvm, portmap, nfs).
> http://ubuntu-utah.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=531989
This seems to refer to a system with only 160M of memory, running from a USB
disk. I think that in this case, the boot time is slow due to hardware
shortcomings.
> Changed substantially: 7.10 is at least twice as fast as 7.04 is to install
> and brings up GDM on boot around a minute faster than Fiesty, on my laptop
> and desktop.
Would you mind sharing your measurements? Were these both fresh
installations? In my experience, a fresh installation will often boot more
quickly than one which has been updated over time.
While it's certainly possible that changes made to fix other issues have
also provided a faster boot, I would be very hesitant to promote this as a
feature of the release without a more concrete idea of the cause and
concrete measurements.
--
- mdz
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:29:06 +0100
From: "Dougie Richardson" <ddrichardson at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Draft: Gutsy beta release announcement
To: "Matt Zimmerman" <mdz at canonical.com>
Cc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek at canonical.com>, Ubuntu Doc Team
<ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <E799F78BEC1549F983E563D583F9800F at HPPavillion>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Matt,
<snip>
> Would you mind sharing your measurements? Were these both fresh
> installations? In my experience, a fresh installation will often boot
> more
> quickly than one which has been updated over time.
>
> While it's certainly possible that changes made to fix other issues have
> also provided a faster boot, I would be very hesitant to promote this as a
> feature of the release without a more concrete idea of the cause and
> concrete measurements.
I have set up to VM's each with a fresh install, One
7.04, one 7.10 and the 7.10 they boot to the login prompt in 2 minutes 5
seconds and 1 minute 15 seconds respectively. I used VM's to give a level
playing field.
Using the Live CD gives better results - 2 minutes 45 second for 7.04 and 2
minutes 15 seconds for 7.10, both measured on an HP TX1250ea in default
configuration, time taken from the boot menu having altered the kernel line
(this laptop needs the "noapic" option).
I don't know if this is just my experience, but it is certainly faster here.
Like I said, it's subjective and am not sure if it was intentional to
increase boot time, if it wasn't then I'm not surprised it's not being
promoted ;-) and can understand why not keen on promoting it.
Dougie Richardson
dougie at lynxworks.eu
http://blog.lynxworks.eu/
------------------------------
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