[MartinManey]

[Simon Michael]

Hi Martin, thanks for the detail. I'm cc'ing to the ubuntu-doc 
list/newsgroup as it may be of interest. Feel free to reply there or 
take this to the zwiki list if you prefer.

First, be aware that the ubuntulinux.org caches occasionally serve stale 
data, which may cause confusion.
Whenever I see something unexpected (currently, several times an hour) I 
shift-reload to make sure I'm seeing the latest.

>The problem is that, after layer on layer of CSS is done with it, the
>wiki's content (the main bodies of text) end up displayed in a font
>quite a bit smaller than the default size I have chosen to suit my
>display, viewing conditions, and eyes.  I think this is inherited from
>Plone, if that's what they're using for the non-wiki parts of the site,
>  
>
When using the wiki with the default plone skin, yes indeed it comes 
from plone, probably plone.css, though I can't quite see how.

The small/normal/large text links at top right of the plone skin can 
adjust this for you and remember it. I see an ugly transition in firefox 
when I use these, though.

You could suggest on ubuntu-doc that the default plone font size be 
enlarged. If there's consensus, it's easy to do, in plone setup, though 
if enlarged too much plone layout glitches may result.

>FWIW, the Zwiki "skin" made things nearly usable - I could then disable
>CSS and get a tolerably usable display with readable text.  However,
>  
>
The only font size issue I can see with the zwiki skin is it shrinks 
them all a notch: body {font-size: 90%}. Is this what's driving you to 
disable CSS ?

>this wasn't a useful solution for doing further work on editing the
>wiki, as there's a lot of it that needs more than simple paragraphs as
>its structure.  And it made the non-wiki parts of the Ubuntu site look
>quite awful, as those pages seem to use only CSS for layout of their
>component parts, so it's not really a fix.
>  
>
Yes, you shouldn't need to be disabling CSS. I don't understand yet 
what's stopping you editing the wiki though.

>Being as familiar with Moin as I am, I wasn't thrilled with the loss of
>any number of features in the move to Zwiki, but aside from the
>readability problem (which may be more of a problem with the overall
>site's theme than anything Zwiki specific), the one that I really
>really hated was the loss of page history.  That's part of what I've
>come to consider a foundational requirement for a usable wiki.  I get
>the impression that this may be an eccentric position, at least in its
>extremity, but it's how I feel.  :-)
>  
>
It's an understandable position, for sure. What's wrong with zwiki's 
page history - the fact that it's not permanent ? Indeed, it's lost 
whenever the zope admin packs the database, but in that's infrequent and 
I've found it good enough for undoing damage etc.

Best,
-Simon