From dmitrij.ledkov at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 01:44:23 2009 From: dmitrij.ledkov at gmail.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 03:44:23 +0300 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251486713.15886.12.camel@e3buntu> <20090829145643.467d9211@build-emt64> <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> Message-ID: <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> read the whole thread and well I don't like software, apps, store and center together. My dad doesn't understand software nor apps. I don't want to use a store on my computer and center associates to me with security center in windows control panel *shudder* my expectation is something tangible and alive that you can relate to. kitchen sync, getdeb, click& run, get funzies =) are great names but are either taken or not marketable as canonical products. We already have a lot of direct or indirect nature a based names (bazaar, landscape, funky frenzy release names, ubuntu cloud, Launchpad, soyuz) which make app store plain boring. Something like "Ubuntu Silk Routes" or "Ubuntu Silk Road" makes more sence to me... It is well known historic phenomenon (no problems with translation) and I hope most people can make the association that it will provide all sorts of packages for their computer from bits & bolts upto pretty wallpaper. In addition I think it will be clear that Ubuntu Silk Roads provide packages from various sources: ubuntu main, universe, PPA, partners, salesman, etc. Maybe I'm completely wrong but it seems it is easy to explain and market that Ubuntu Silk Road provides continues flow of new & never seen packages along with good & old stuff from many craftsman that identify themself with different release schedules, support channels, price and stability (its). With "ubuntu app/software store/center" expectations of unfamiliar user would be that everything is upto the same standard in terms of license, price, support and quality. Which is not what this project aims to reveal. Ubuntu users already have apt/aptitude/syntactic/packages which all treat everything as butk catle, oops Software. Ps. I bit overwhelmed with my suggestion now. Anyhow I look forward to to see this project sucseed however it is named. Pss just imagine "perishable" section for daily builds Ppas, jewels for partner pay for software, "spices" for ubuntu subscription services, "fabrics" for artwork and so on and so forth. -- With best regards Dmitrijs Ledkovs (for short Dima), ?????? ??????? ??????? From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 07:33:03 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:33:03 +0200 Subject: Advice needed - moving GNOME help files into langpacks In-Reply-To: <3bd91160908310642g5652279et19e1f93d8c63a122@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090827161733.GJ3634@piware.de> <3bd91160908271136n28e0f13ah24cadcdc50c7b3bb@mail.gmail.com> <20090827195657.GN3634@piware.de> <3bd91160908271310m7a8ca4bdtc0c1131cd1fa03d2@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271519r6a0e89cfl39dfef6a5d84d884@mail.gmail.com> <20090830084458.GA3617@piware.de> <20090830095614.GA26127@piware.de> <3bd91160908310642g5652279et19e1f93d8c63a122@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090901063303.GD4020@piware.de> Hello Matthew, Matthew East [2009-08-31 15:42 +0200]: > This is surely a bug in gnome-terminal, isn't it? I'd say it is, yes. > If so, can't we just do some testing and try and make sure that such > bugs are fixed upstream? I'm willing to help test and report bugs. I was just afraid that this might affect other GNOME apps as well, and we discover it too late. Also, as said earlier, there will be a major revision/restructuring of GNOME help in 3.0/Mallard anyway, so I'm not sure whether it's worth spending time on fixing the curent system. Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From michael at bienia.de Tue Sep 1 09:44:47 2009 From: michael at bienia.de (Michael Bienia) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:44:47 -0000 Subject: [Bug 397144] Re: Update-Maintainer silently fails when Maintainer-Field contains a comment in brackets References: <20090708192931.21565.54600.malonedeb@palladium.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090901084449.11149.71418.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> ** Changed in: ubuntu-dev-tools Status: New => Fix Released -- Update-Maintainer silently fails when Maintainer-Field contains a comment in brackets https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/397144 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Development Team, which is the registrant for Ubuntu Developer Tools. From michael at bienia.de Tue Sep 1 09:45:05 2009 From: michael at bienia.de (Michael Bienia) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:45:05 -0000 Subject: [Bug 255099] Re: requestsync: Doesn't wait for gpg command to exit References: <1217965366.8219.151.camel@ganieda.vernstok.nl> Message-ID: <20090901084506.11149.40996.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> ** Also affects: ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided Status: New -- requestsync: Doesn't wait for gpg command to exit https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/255099 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Development Team, which is the registrant for Ubuntu Developer Tools. From michael at bienia.de Tue Sep 1 10:07:48 2009 From: michael at bienia.de (Michael Bienia) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:07:48 -0000 Subject: [Bug 255099] Re: requestsync: Doesn't wait for gpg command to exit References: <1217965366.8219.151.camel@ganieda.vernstok.nl> Message-ID: <20090901090748.11149.95480.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Does this still happen? -- requestsync: Doesn't wait for gpg command to exit https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/255099 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Development Team, which is the registrant for Ubuntu Developer Tools. From mpt at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 09:50:51 2009 From: mpt at canonical.com (Matthew Paul Thomas) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:50:51 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251486713.15886.12.camel@e3buntu> <20090829145643.467d9211@build-emt64> <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote on 01/09/09 01:44: >... > We already have a lot of direct or indirect nature a based names > (bazaar, landscape, funky frenzy release names, ubuntu cloud, > Launchpad, soyuz) which make app store plain boring. > > Something like "Ubuntu Silk Routes" or "Ubuntu Silk Road" makes more > sence to me... >... This thread's not going anywhere. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqc4GYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpiAACguN0a5/pjB/oK641BKztWj1X5 4NIAoLfWQx+79KRrrgQ0iLApqZ87CfYq =WyHn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mpt at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 09:46:33 2009 From: mpt at canonical.com (Matthew Paul Thomas) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:46:33 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090828135645.GC5688@foucault> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <20090828135645.GC5688@foucault> Message-ID: <4A9CDF69.8060105@canonical.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greg Grossmeier wrote on 28/08/09 14:56: >... > Just double checking that I understand this part correctly: we're > going to have a line in every single software package description in > all of the Ubuntu repositories that says "Price: Free"? > > EDIT: Just confirmed this with mpt on #ubuntu-devel and he pointed me > to this bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/419295 (thanks, mpt) > > From a librarian's point of view (you've solicited our help, and I > have the degree) that seems like an awful waste of space for something > that will only being "Price: !Free" 0.001% of the time. How do you know that? In the iPhone App Store, for example, 77 % of the applications have a non-zero price. > Be explicit when > needed, don't clutter the user's view with information that > practically never changes. I would suggest _only_ showing Price > information when there _is_ a price. As I explained in the bug report, that "would cause a Simon-says problem, where the way to verify that something was free would be to check that there was no 'Price:' row anywhere on the page." > My point: > > Explicitly saying "Free" to counteract the fact that it is called a > "Store" seems like a lot of work to fix a problem that is avoidable by > calling it something other than a Store. >... I would have specified that that line should be there regardless of what the program was called. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqc32MACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoBdQCdFVxObXGJBR05IqDbd/zlcaMS 2AIAoMrX2VjOubYxf2d+wfMMrt6sHwmP =NWyZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 14:10:42 2009 From: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com (ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:10:42 +0100 Subject: =?koi8-r?B?zdXM2NTGyczYzdkg5Onz7uXxIM7BINfJxMXP?= Message-ID: <000d01ca2afd$3a1b2370$6400a8c0@tarmacss78> ??????, ???? ? ???????????. ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??????????? - ????????? ????????? ?????? - "?????? ????" ?? 12 DVD - 72 ?????; "?????? ???????" ?? 11 ?????? - 100 ?????; "?????? ?? ???????" ?? 6 ?????? - 42 ?????; "??? ? ???? ?????? ?? ??????" ?? 8 DVD - 65 ?????. ????????? ?????? ????????? 1800 ???.; ???? ???? ??????? ????????? ?????? - 4500 ??????. ???????????? ?????. ???????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ???, a???? ? ???????? ?????? ?? disnscd at multidisk.org ?????? ??? ????????? ? ????? ?????. ? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????. ??????????? - ??? ????? ????? ????????? ??????????? ?? ??????????, ?? ??????? ?????. ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ? ????. ?????? ?? ???????????? ? ?? ????????, ????? ??? ??. ?????? DVD ? ????? ???????????? ????????, ??????????? ?????????? ? ?????? ? ??????? ?????. ??? ???? ?????????? ??????? ????? 7-14 ???? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ? ??????? ?????? ?????????. ?? ??? ????? ??????? ?????????, ????? ????????? ?????????, ???? ????? ??????? ? ???? ?????????? ?? ????????? ? ??? ???????? ?????????. ??? ??????? ????????? ? ???????, ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ????????? ? ????? ?????. From root at ianlawrence.info Tue Sep 1 13:47:31 2009 From: root at ianlawrence.info (Ian Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:47:31 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> Message-ID: Hi > "Store" primarily means a place where you *purchase* things. Ubuntu Linux ganhar? "loja de software" http://www.geek.com.br/blogs/832697632/posts/10794-ubuntu-linux-ganhara-loja-de-software translates to "Ubuntu Linux now has a software shop" regards Ian -- http://ianlawrence.info From greg at grossmeier.net Tue Sep 1 14:14:12 2009 From: greg at grossmeier.net (Greg Grossmeier) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 09:14:12 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4A9CDF69.8060105@canonical.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <20090828135645.GC5688@foucault> <4A9CDF69.8060105@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090901131412.GA7410@foucault> > Greg Grossmeier wrote on 28/08/09 14:56: > >... > > From a librarian's point of view (you've solicited our help, and I > > have the degree) that seems like an awful waste of space for something > > that will only being "Price: !Free" 0.001% of the time. > > How do you know that? In the iPhone App Store, for example, 77 % of the > applications have a non-zero price. I was refering to the Ubuntu App Store where I assume that even if we sold every commercially available Linux app we would be no where near 77% non-zero price. We have a lot more lib* packages than the iPhone :) > > Be explicit when > > needed, don't clutter the user's view with information that > > practically never changes. I would suggest _only_ showing Price > > information when there _is_ a price. > > As I explained in the bug report, that "would cause a Simon-says > problem, where the way to verify that something was free would be to > check that there was no 'Price:' row anywhere on the page." [snip] > I would have specified that that line should be there regardless of what > the program was called. Valid points/opinions. I just personally feel that showing "Price: Free" for the vast majority of things people will download from this store is too redundant. Again, I think we can instill in the Ubuntu user's mind that Ubuntu = Free Software. But I understand the reasons for doing it differently. Now that I have started repeating myself I think I've made my points. :) Best, Greg From mdke at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 15:55:08 2009 From: mdke at ubuntu.com (Matthew East) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:55:08 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <20090829145643.467d9211@build-emt64> <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> Message-ID: <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote on 01/09/09 01:44: >>... >> We already have a lot of direct or indirect nature a based names >> (bazaar, landscape, funky frenzy release names, ubuntu cloud, >> Launchpad, soyuz) which make app store plain boring. >> >> Something like "Ubuntu Silk Routes" or "Ubuntu Silk Road" makes more >> sence to me... >>... > > This thread's not going anywhere. Well, the particular suggestion you chose to reply to on the name issue wasn't sensible, but I strongly disagree that the thread isn't going anywhere. Lots of leading Ubuntu contributors have voiced their opinion that the name of this application does not correctly describe its function and have given good explanations why. Ubuntu is a project based on discussion and consensus. Simply drawing a line under the thread is not the right approach, IMO. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF From david at dsanders.co.uk Tue Sep 1 15:29:44 2009 From: david at dsanders.co.uk (David Sanders) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:29:44 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> Message-ID: <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/1 Ian Lawrence : > Hi >> "Store" primarily means a place where you *purchase* things. > > Ubuntu Linux ganhar? "loja de software" > http://www.geek.com.br/blogs/832697632/posts/10794-ubuntu-linux-ganhara-loja-de-software > > translates to "Ubuntu Linux now has a software shop" > I'm with the "Store == Paid Software" crowd here, especially for what is very much an internet OS - it smacks of: Adobe Store Microsoft Store Apple Store Dell Online Store In fact, I will be very suprised if you can find any other application or website with "Store" in the title which isn't mainly for paid applications. Center/Centre definitely suggests "control" over the contents, not just purchasing. 0.2p David From rainct at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 16:04:47 2009 From: rainct at ubuntu.com (Siegfried Gevatter) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:04:47 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. From craftjml at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 15:57:55 2009 From: craftjml at gmail.com (Jud Craft) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:57:55 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090901131412.GA7410@foucault> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <20090828135645.GC5688@foucault> <4A9CDF69.8060105@canonical.com> <20090901131412.GA7410@foucault> Message-ID: <20d6441a0909010757n3bf8284ft61ce650bd76677d7@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Greg Grossmeier wrote: > I was refering to the Ubuntu App Store where I assume that even if we > sold every commercially available Linux app we would be no where near 77% > non-zero price. We have a lot more lib* packages than the iPhone :) Arguably lib-packages are not apps, and should merely be abstracted away, as they seem to be now in Ubuntu's Add/Remove Programs. a user should never be required to buy or manage "libs" to make sure the apps he -does- buy work right. From alan at popey.com Tue Sep 1 16:16:18 2009 From: alan at popey.com (Alan Pope) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:16:18 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/9/1 Siegfried Gevatter : > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > I too am not comfortable with "Software Center", partly because it will in all likelyhood have non-software in it, like themes, but to a UK person the word "Center" makes me flinch. I don't like "Store" because it inclines me towards thinking it's a for-profit venture, and I guess that's because the word 'store' is now tainted by all the proprietary software repos out there that have previously been listed. I'd be more inclined to like something that took the ethos of Ubuntu, and the generic nature of what goes in the repository. Something _like_ "Package Bazar". Given we already have a concept of 'packages' in Ubuntu, I'd guess it's easily translatable. The term 'Bazar' has historical and community influences which are overall positive. I don't particularly _like_ "Package" but I think it's better than "Software" and whilst the term 'package' needs to be explained before many will 'get it' I don't think it's that much of a stretch for people to think of 'packages' of software coming from the 'bazar'. Just my 2p. Cheers, Al. From drkvi-a at yahoo.com Tue Sep 1 16:49:27 2009 From: drkvi-a at yahoo.com (mac_v) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:19:27 +0530 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 17:04 +0200, Siegfried Gevatter wrote: > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > How about "Software Zone" or "Ubuntu Zone"... ;) I think we are underestimating the users by thinking that only name which includes a word "Store" will convey the right meaning! A more innovative name can be used! -- Cheers, mac_v From robbie at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 18:01:12 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:01:12 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9D5358.7080305@ubuntu.com> I like Marketplace...Bazaar is cool, but could confuse people with the other Bazaar, i.e. 'bzr' On 09/01/2009 10:42 AM, ajmctaggart wrote: > Obviously Store is not very popular, nor Center. So what is it that we > are trying to accomplish with the title of this piece of Ubuntu? Will > it be unique and solely on Ubuntu? Or will this be installable on other > distros and therefore we want to keep the word "Ubuntu" out of the > title? Libs are obviously not nearly as "cool" as actual applications, > but will have to be supported within this framework. Are we trying to > communicate a trading post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a > trading post or a bazaar in a Ubuntu-esque fashion? > > 1) Marketplace > 2) Creative Exchange > 3) Open Market/ Open Exchange > 4) Common Knowledge Market/ Exchange/Marketplace... (I don't want to > start a flame war on "Open," software or "Closed," software and the > availability from within this management tool) > 5) I don't have the wording, but what about the central idea behind a > Library? You check out titles, you return them, etc...Very simiilar to > what this Synaptic replacement would allow...Anyone with some good ideas > for a "Library," wording? > > Or are we going essentially for a "grass roots," kind of wording? > > -Anthony > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pope > wrote: > > 2009/9/1 Siegfried Gevatter >: > > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > > > > I too am not comfortable with "Software Center", partly because it > will in all likelyhood have non-software in it, like themes, but to a > UK person the word "Center" makes me flinch. I don't like "Store" > because it inclines me towards thinking it's a for-profit venture, and > I guess that's because the word 'store' is now tainted by all the > proprietary software repos out there that have previously been listed. > > I'd be more inclined to like something that took the ethos of Ubuntu, > and the generic nature of what goes in the repository. Something > _like_ "Package Bazar". Given we already have a concept of 'packages' > in Ubuntu, I'd guess it's easily translatable. The term 'Bazar' has > historical and community influences which are overall positive. > > I don't particularly _like_ "Package" but I think it's better than > "Software" and whilst the term 'package' needs to be explained before > many will 'get it' I don't think it's that much of a stretch for > people to think of 'packages' of software coming from the 'bazar'. > > Just my 2p. > > Cheers, > Al. > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > > From bryce at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 18:02:16 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:02:16 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> References: <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > > _like_ "Package Bazar". Given we already have a concept of 'packages' > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 08:42:41AM -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: > post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a trading post or a bazaar in Given that this word has been spelt three different ways in two posts, it appears to fail the "easy to spell" test. ;-) Bryce From bryce at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 18:18:45 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:18:45 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> Message-ID: <20090901171845.GS4906@bryceharrington.org> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 09:19:27PM +0530, mac_v wrote: > On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 17:04 +0200, Siegfried Gevatter wrote: > > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > > > > How about "Software Zone" or "Ubuntu Zone"... ;) > > I think we are underestimating the users by thinking that only name > which includes a word "Store" will convey the right meaning! > > A more innovative name can be used! I hate to step into this tussle, but is this thread bike-shed painting a bit much? I've no idea if the name even can be changed, but if it can input is going to be better listened to from people with hammers and chisels than pitchforks and torches. Bryce From bryce at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 18:27:34 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:27:34 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090901172734.GT4906@bryceharrington.org> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 10:16:20AM -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: > I definitely agree Bazaar could be confused with "bzr,"...But it is a word > that seems to align well with Ubuntu and the goals, etc...maybe we just need It does align nicely, although I think it'd be a strange name for anyone not familiar with CatB. Also, it seem in terms of meaning, isn't a bazaar still "a place to buy things"? > It seems like we want to express these ideas in the name... > A place to EXCHANGE > A free MARKET for individuals to grab packages, libs, etc. > A LIBRARY in terms of order, documentation, cataloging, etc. > A CENTRAL location to handle all things related to SOFTWARE'S > INSTALLATION, UPDATES, DEPENDENCIES,etc > > I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great descriptors for > what is trying to be accomplished here... Can't wait until someone suggests "Software Pantry" ;-) Bryce From steve.langasek at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 18:42:52 2009 From: steve.langasek at ubuntu.com (Steve Langasek) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090901172734.GT4906@bryceharrington.org> References: <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> <20090901172734.GT4906@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <20090901174252.GA6331@dario.dodds.net> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 10:27:34AM -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > > I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great descriptors for > > what is trying to be accomplished here... > Can't wait until someone suggests "Software Pantry" ;-) "The Widget Larder" "The U-Pick Bit Farm" -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek at ubuntu.com vorlon at debian.org From nalimilan at club.fr Tue Sep 1 21:39:46 2009 From: nalimilan at club.fr (Milan Bouchet-Valat) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:39:46 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> Message-ID: <1251837587.4082.3.camel@milan> Le mardi 01 septembre 2009 ? 10:15 -0700, Dylan McCall a ?crit : > I'm a bit concerned about using price to distinguish things here. The > "price: free" thing is flawed, because it furthers the misconception > that free software is only free in price, when in fact being free in > price is quite irrelevant. Software with "price: $20" may still be free > as in libr?, which deserves credit! Is "get free software" going to > display stuff with price == 0.00, or is it going to display software > that is _free_? Agreed. I'd suggest we use "Licence: free", and "Licence: proprietary - Price: X ?" when applicable (and also "Licence: shareware" if needed). That way, we emphasize the difference between free software and others, and we don't clutter our UI with ugly prices when they aren't relevant. We could even remove the "Licence:" part, and display the kind of software directly. Hope this helps - and I'm all against the "Store" phrasing BTW :-p From doctormo at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 18:57:03 2009 From: doctormo at gmail.com (Martin Owens) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:57:03 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090901171845.GS4906@bryceharrington.org> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <20090901171845.GS4906@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <1251827823.14891.17.camel@delen> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 10:18 -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > I hate to step into this tussle, but is this thread bike-shed painting a > bit much? It is now. And the name probably won't change, I've never seen any other outcome for such things in the past. Me, I'd just all it "More..." Martin, From dylanmccall at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 18:15:06 2009 From: dylanmccall at gmail.com (Dylan McCall) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:15:06 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> Message-ID: <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 21:19 +0530, mac_v wrote: > On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 17:04 +0200, Siegfried Gevatter wrote: > > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > > > > How about "Software Zone" or "Ubuntu Zone"... ;) > > I think we are underestimating the users by thinking that only name > which includes a word "Store" will convey the right meaning! > > A more innovative name can be used! > > -- > Cheers, > mac_v > > I'm going to talk about branding, too, though I hate to join in that seemingly endless thread. (At least nobody is on a tirade about the possibility of software costing money to buy). First of all, Software Store and Software Center both have a different problem. It is trivial, but visible to geeks like myself. They carry a 'hissing' sound (sssss) thanks to the alliteration. In my culture, at least, the sound is usually used in writing to emphasize a bad thing. Granted, usually less than two words in such alliteration, but it's visible if you sound it out. I was thinking Software Exchange would maybe make sense as a name. I'm thinking "ski swap" here. It sounds like a place where you are likely to get some stuff for free and other stuff for money. I also like the idea of "software market" or "software bazaar," since it adds something more tactile to the mix. As far as giving stuff back to an exchange, that absolutely would fit nicely! We need a page somewhere easy to find (but out of the way) that tells the user how to package stuff and get it hosted on the Software Exchange / Store / whichever. (A nice packaging gui for art packages goes here). I'm a bit concerned about using price to distinguish things here. The "price: free" thing is flawed, because it furthers the misconception that free software is only free in price, when in fact being free in price is quite irrelevant. Software with "price: $20" may still be free as in libr?, which deserves credit! Is "get free software" going to display stuff with price == 0.00, or is it going to display software that is _free_? Will this thingy be connecting to Launchpad? It would be neat to get linked to code, bugs and answers directly from the store :) Thanks, Dylan McCall -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090901/41055507/attachment.pgp From lists at kefk.oa.shuttle.de Tue Sep 1 18:32:30 2009 From: lists at kefk.oa.shuttle.de (Peter l Jakobi) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 19:32:30 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4A9D5358.7080305@ubuntu.com> References: <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <4A9D5358.7080305@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20090901173230.GA20639@anuurn.compact> On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 12:01:12PM -0500, Robbie Williamson wrote: > On 09/01/2009 10:42 AM, ajmctaggart wrote: > > Obviously Store is not very popular, nor Center. So what is it that we ... > > communicate a trading post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a > > trading post or a bazaar in a Ubuntu-esque fashion? ... > > 2) Creative Exchange > > 3) Open Market/ Open Exchange too much bubble economy for me (and has been since for decades now, if you think of the Japanese usage of the term bubble economy). > > 4) Common Knowledge Market/ Exchange/Marketplace... (I don't want to > > start a flame war on "Open," software or "Closed," software and the > > availability from within this management tool) Too long. However, in German, there's also the word Allmende, which translates to just 'Commons'. And the space the weekly market took place on was very much part of the Allmende. So trade commercial and otherwise was always part of that. So how about just Ubuntu Commons? I don't think that's much confusion between licenses and that kind of use. Maybe combined with something connoting repository / stack / depot? > > 5) I don't have the wording, but what about the central idea behind a > > Library? You check out titles, you return them, etc...Very simiilar to > > what this Synaptic replacement would allow...Anyone with some good ideas > > for a "Library," wording? There are famous reading rooms in the one oof the British Museam in London? One of those might also have intersting names... The http://www.the-athenaeum.org/ is also nice, but maybe a bit too obscure and also, it's already taken. Strange when we've 2k+ years of libraries (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Celsus_Library_Edifice.jpg) and I cannot seem to think of a single good term in either German or English. -- cu Peter l Jakobi lists at kefk.oa.shuttle.de From sh at sourcecode.de Wed Sep 2 00:28:45 2009 From: sh at sourcecode.de (Stephan Hermann) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 01:28:45 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <3bd91160908290622y18df607k881ebe0562b46e1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251486713.15886.12.camel@e3buntu> <20090829145643.467d9211@build-emt64> <3bd91160908290622y18df607k881ebe0562b46e1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090902012845.73c6b7d3@build-emt64> Moins, On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:22:04 +0100 Matthew East wrote: > (adding back ubuntu-desktop@) > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Stephan Hermann > wrote: > > The reason why anybodies blood start to boil right now, when they > > hear "Ubuntu Software > > {Store,Shop,Market,Wholesale,Supermarket,etc.pp}" is that Canonical > > right now is not making a big deal out of it. They tell you "We > > will go and we will sell commercial software with this > > tool"..that's more then transparent, and that's more then other > > "sponsoring companies" are telling their community. > > For the record, that's not the reason behind my objection. Actually, I > haven't seen *anywhere* on this entire thread any suggestion that this > application shouldn't make commercial software available. Hopefully I never wrote this... Furthermore, my message shouldn't be read "Canonical will or does sell commercial software"...(I don't know, I won't know and I really doesn't want to know, 'cause I don't care). Fact is, that those "Naming" issues, especially those who On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 11:07 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > Unfortunately the naming was one thing that had to be done within > Canonical, for boring legal reasons. are discussed behind close curtains, will give a "bad light" to a project which needs to stay out of the "red light district". The fact that many people are working on that project, but only one main sponsor has something to say about some parts of it, could give some serious problems (as those boring things I mentioned). Essentially when the name of the project is involved (Means: Ubuntu). IMHO (REALLY IMHO!) it would be a good idea to have an announcement or a "full disclosure" from Mark^WCanonical about the Future. Really, I don't care where we are going to, the only thing I do care about is a) stability b) reliability c) productivity We're are "far from it", but we are going the right way...and we all need to "pay" for it. In one way or the other, but I think it would be good to have an overview about things "we" want to do, and where "we" want to go. The problem is that many people don't see the goal or the plan. ("we" means here: The Ubuntu Project, The Ubuntu Community and the Full Time Sponsor Canonical Ltd. just shuffle the order) Regards, \sh PS: The only goal I have is to be a good father to my child(ren?), "nothing else matters" (MeTaLlIcA). PPS: @Martin, the mail I send wasn't meant personal...it's just that the "ramblings" are really boring, because actually we can't do anything to solve it right now. From sh at sourcecode.de Wed Sep 2 00:32:19 2009 From: sh at sourcecode.de (Stephan Hermann) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 01:32:19 +0200 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090901174252.GA6331@dario.dodds.net> References: <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> <20090901172734.GT4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090901174252.GA6331@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <20090902013219.3f64d520@build-emt64> On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:42:52 -0700 Steve Langasek wrote: > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 10:27:34AM -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > > > I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great > > > descriptors for what is trying to be accomplished here... > > > Can't wait until someone suggests "Software Pantry" ;-) > > "The Widget Larder" > > "The U-Pick Bit Farm" Second ! ;) \sh From doctormo at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 22:55:54 2009 From: doctormo at gmail.com (Martin Owens) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:55:54 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1251842154.14891.19.camel@delen> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 10:16 -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: > Bryce, > I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great descriptors > for what is trying to be accomplished here... Library, I second the colour of bike shed should be 'Application Library', sounds like just the kind of free to access with the odd thing you have to pay for (like dvds). Same kind of spirit as the great library building of the late 19th century. Martin, From bryce at canonical.com Thu Sep 3 21:16:27 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:16:27 -0700 Subject: September X maintenance Message-ID: <20090903201627.GL4906@bryceharrington.org> Hi all, For the month of September, Alberto Milone will be covering for me on Ubuntu X maintenance, as I'll be off for paternity leave and conferences. Please contact him if you need any assistance with X issues. I'll be around tomorrow, and back to work Oct 1st after the X Developer's Conference. Bryce From scislac at gmail.com Thu Sep 3 21:23:49 2009 From: scislac at gmail.com (Joshua A. Andler) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:23:49 -0700 Subject: September X maintenance In-Reply-To: <20090903201627.GL4906@bryceharrington.org> References: <20090903201627.GL4906@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <1252009429.10319.9.camel@anubis> Bryce, I will do the totally inappropriate thing of top posting AND responding publicly to say... Congratulations and Best of Luck to you and your family! Cheers, Josh On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 13:16 -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > Hi all, > > For the month of September, Alberto Milone will be covering for me on > Ubuntu X maintenance, as I'll be off for paternity leave and > conferences. Please contact him if you need any assistance with X > issues. > > I'll be around tomorrow, and back to work Oct 1st after the X > Developer's Conference. > > Bryce > > From mdz at canonical.com Fri Sep 4 01:02:45 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:02:45 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? Message-ID: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> With more of the graphics stack moving into the kernel, we are starting to see more bugs of this type: http://launchpad.net/bugs/359392 http://launchpad.net/bugs/388357 http://launchpad.net/bugs/424055 Where the GPU is hung, but the system is otherwise still responsive. This is annoyingly difficult to debug, with the primary technique being to ssh into the system from a nearby one (because the console is useless). I think it would be a worthwhile investment to work on improved tools and methods for debugging this scenario, including: * Detecting (programatically) when this situation occurs and capturing an apport problem report, as described in http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/06/17/collecting-debug-information-when-your-gpu-hangs/ Bryce (and Jesse Barnes at Intel) mentioned that the kernel is now supposed to log an error message when this happens, but I've never seen evidence of that happening. * Providing some means for the user to get the system into a debuggable state, i.e. where they can see something on the screen. Maybe it's possible to re-POST the video device to see if it gets back to a sane state? * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily executed by reasonably technical users -- - mdz From bryce at canonical.com Fri Sep 4 10:25:45 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 02:25:45 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> Message-ID: <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:02:45PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > With more of the graphics stack moving into the kernel, we are starting to > see more bugs of this type: > > http://launchpad.net/bugs/359392 > http://launchpad.net/bugs/388357 > http://launchpad.net/bugs/424055 > > Where the GPU is hung, but the system is otherwise still responsive. This > is annoyingly difficult to debug, with the primary technique being to ssh > into the system from a nearby one (because the console is useless). Actually there have been GPU hang bugs for a long time. It's just that they wasn't a way to debug them until recently. > I think it would be a worthwhile investment to work on improved tools and > methods for debugging this scenario, including: > > * Detecting (programatically) when this situation occurs and capturing > an apport problem report, as described in > http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/06/17/collecting-debug-information-when-your-gpu-hangs/ > > Bryce (and Jesse Barnes at Intel) mentioned that the kernel is now > supposed to log an error message when this happens, but I've never seen > evidence of that happening. I'm cc'ing jbarnes here. Last I heard this was implemented upstream but hadn't yet filtered down. > * Providing some means for the user to get the system into a debuggable > state, i.e. where they can see something on the screen. Maybe it's > possible to re-POST the video device to see if it gets back to a sane > state? > > * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily executed by > reasonably technical users Bryce From chris.jones at canonical.com Fri Sep 4 10:17:02 2009 From: chris.jones at canonical.com (Chris Jones) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:17:02 +0100 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> Message-ID: <4AA0DB0E.7020508@canonical.com> Hi Matt Zimmerman wrote: > Bryce (and Jesse Barnes at Intel) mentioned that the kernel is now > supposed to log an error message when this happens, but I've never seen > evidence of that happening. I had an X wedge on resuming my laptop the other day and after SSHing in I found this in dmesg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31253955/kernel.txt (attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/423362) Is that the thing you're referring to? Having that kernel event trigger an automatic dump into /var/crash seems like it would be a massive win (cf my essentially useless bug report in the above case) Cheers, -- Chris Jones cmsj at canonical.com www.canonical.com From jesse.barnes at intel.com Fri Sep 4 16:12:09 2009 From: jesse.barnes at intel.com (Jesse Barnes) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:12:09 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 02:25:45 -0700 Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:02:45PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > With more of the graphics stack moving into the kernel, we are > > starting to see more bugs of this type: > > > > http://launchpad.net/bugs/359392 > > http://launchpad.net/bugs/388357 > > http://launchpad.net/bugs/424055 > > > > Where the GPU is hung, but the system is otherwise still > > responsive. This is annoyingly difficult to debug, with the > > primary technique being to ssh into the system from a nearby one > > (because the console is useless). > > Actually there have been GPU hang bugs for a long time. It's just > that they wasn't a way to debug them until recently. > > > I think it would be a worthwhile investment to work on improved > > tools and methods for debugging this scenario, including: > > > > * Detecting (programatically) when this situation occurs and > > capturing an apport problem report, as described in > > http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/06/17/collecting-debug-information-when-your-gpu-hangs/ > > > > Bryce (and Jesse Barnes at Intel) mentioned that the kernel is > > now supposed to log an error message when this happens, but I've > > never seen evidence of that happening. > > I'm cc'ing jbarnes here. Last I heard this was implemented upstream > but hadn't yet filtered down. Yeah, the kernel should be sending a uevent from the drm device now as well. I've seen dumps occur in the wild too; when an error occurs the kernel will dump some info to dmesg (not a complete dump, just a summary) and capture the error record in debugfs under i915_error_state. If you catch the uevent, you could perform a GPU dump and capture the dmesg and other debugfs state into a package. > > * Providing some means for the user to get the system into a > > debuggable state, i.e. where they can see something on the screen. > > Maybe it's possible to re-POST the video device to see if it gets > > back to a sane state? > > > > * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily executed by > > reasonably technical users There are some reset patches available, but they don't seem to work in all cases. It would be good to know if they were useful for any of your reported hangs... It might be that they're better than nothing and we should push them upstream now. -- Jesse Barnes, Intel Open Source Technology Center From bryce at canonical.com Sat Sep 5 00:08:57 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:08:57 -0700 Subject: New fglrx 8.660 in Karmic Message-ID: <20090904230857.GA4906@bryceharrington.org> I've just uploaded a new -fglrx for Karmic. Should be built and available within a few hours. The version we had quit working entirely a few weeks back due to a change in dkms. I've verified this is now fixed, along with several other issues that were easy to test for. There wasn't a changelog included in this driver so I'm uncertain what other issues might be resolved; if you've reported an fglrx issue previously I'd encourage you to re-test and update your bug report accordingly. Enjoy, Bryce From nicola.larosa at canonical.com Sat Sep 5 14:27:40 2009 From: nicola.larosa at canonical.com (Nicola Larosa) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:27:40 +0200 Subject: [Ubuntuone-users] Limit Bandwidth Usage In-Reply-To: <4AA25D44.3080006@pobox.com> References: <4AA25D44.3080006@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4AA2674C.7090507@canonical.com> Tony Willoughby wrote: > The limit bandwidth usage resets every time Ubuntuone is started. Is > this the design intent? It seems like a bug to me. > > If it's a bug, I'll be glad to submit one. There's already one, just search the ubuntuone-client project with "bandwidth": syncdaemon doesn't save my settings https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/418882 -- Nicola Larosa - nicola.larosa at canonical.com From tonyw at pobox.com Sat Sep 5 13:44:52 2009 From: tonyw at pobox.com (Tony Willoughby) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 08:44:52 -0400 Subject: Limit Bandwidth Usage Message-ID: <4AA25D44.3080006@pobox.com> The limit bandwidth usage resets every time Ubuntuone is started. Is this the design intent? It seems like a bug to me. If it's a bug, I'll be glad to submit one. 0.94.0+r198-0ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty -- Tony Willoughby tonyw at pobox.com "I love the color of this. I would paint my room with it." - My 14 year old, describing his fried chicken. From bryce at canonical.com Sun Sep 6 06:16:28 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:16:28 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> Message-ID: <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 08:12:09AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > > * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily executed by > > > reasonably technical users > > There are some reset patches available, but they don't seem to work in > all cases. It would be good to know if they were useful for any of > your reported hangs... It might be that they're better than nothing > and we should push them upstream now. Unfortunately the freeze bugs I've seen reported recently appear to be difficult for the reporters to reproduce at will (e.g. occur only after a few days). But it definitely sounds like something worth pulling in for Karmic+1. Bryce From steve.langasek at ubuntu.com Sun Sep 6 08:23:01 2009 From: steve.langasek at ubuntu.com (Steve Langasek) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:23:01 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:16:28PM -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 08:12:09AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > > > * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily executed by > > > > reasonably technical users > > There are some reset patches available, but they don't seem to work in > > all cases. It would be good to know if they were useful for any of > > your reported hangs... It might be that they're better than nothing > > and we should push them upstream now. > Unfortunately the freeze bugs I've seen reported recently appear to be > difficult for the reporters to reproduce at will (e.g. occur only after a > few days). But it definitely sounds like something worth pulling in for > Karmic+1. Why would we not want to pull these for karmic? Is there a significant risk of regressions with these patches? If the only problem is that they don't always work, that's still better than where we are now, surely. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek at ubuntu.com vorlon at debian.org From scott at open-vote.org Mon Sep 7 01:00:23 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:00:23 -0700 Subject: Springlobby, spring-engine, spring-mods-kernelpanic packages in New queue Message-ID: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> The initial versions of these packages were uploaded long before feature freeze, however they were rejected due to incompleteness in the copyright file. I've since cleaned it up and reuploaded - I was told this was ok. If I need to file a Freeze Exception let me know. Thanks, Scott Ritchie From asac at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 7 13:09:26 2009 From: asac at ubuntu.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:09:26 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~heikki-mantysaari/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu-0.9.5-1ubuntu2_to_1.0-1ubuntu2 into lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu updated In-Reply-To: <20090810173515.15623.24867.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090907120926.22467.26874.launchpad@gandwana.canonical.com> The proposal to merge lp:~heikki-mantysaari/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu-0.9.5-1ubuntu2_to_1.0-1ubuntu2 into lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu has been updated. Status: Needs review => Approved -- https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~heikki-mantysaari/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu-0.9.5-1ubuntu2_to_1.0-1ubuntu2/+merge/9933 Your team Ubuntu Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/mozvoikko.ubuntu. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 7 17:21:08 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:21:08 +0200 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews Message-ID: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> Hello everybody, a few weeks ago we abused the Packaging Training session format somewhat and made it a "ask your review questions now and we'll have a look for you" session instead. It was a great success and appreciated by the attendants. It'd be great if we could extend the meme somewhat and have regular reviews in #ubuntu-reviews. If you feel like you have an hour of time for doing some reviews, join the channel, add your name to the topic of the channel and be prepared to get a few questions. :-) If you want to help out more regularly, please consider adding yourself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews Have a great day, Daniel From ubuntu at kitterman.com Mon Sep 7 19:31:12 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:31:12 -0400 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> Message-ID: <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:21:08 +0200 Daniel Holbach wrote: ... >It'd be great if we could extend the meme somewhat and have regular >reviews in #ubuntu-reviews. ... Do we really need yet another IRC channel for this? Reviews are perfectly on topic in the regular development channels and be conducting them in a separate side channel fewer people will see them and learn from them. Scott K From apachelogger at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 8 10:48:42 2009 From: apachelogger at ubuntu.com (Harald Sitter) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:48:42 +0200 Subject: Kubuntu karmic seeds using kubuntu-common Message-ID: <1cc7d65c0909080248v7feee15fx5a3a5c059b99f167@mail.gmail.com> Hola! The seeds for Kubuntu karmic now have a shared package list for kubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-netbook. All packages that are not specific to one of those should be add to kubuntu-common (k3b for example is only in the desktop seed since we decided to boot it off the netboook one). Obvious enough this should reduce maintenance effort :) Should there be any problems with the changed layout, please feel free to poke Riddell. regards, Harald From scott at open-vote.org Wed Sep 9 01:51:05 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:51:05 -0700 Subject: Should packages with PPA lineages preserve their PPA changelogs? Message-ID: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> If we start with foo 1.0-0ubuntu1 in the archive, and I make a PPA fork for foo 1.1-0ubuntu1, and end up going through multiple PPA revisions (say, foo 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1 through 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa6), should the changelog entries for those revisions end up in the final upload to Ubuntu proper? Or should I purge them and keep the changelog "pure" to real Ubuntu uploads? Or should their content be merged somehow? Thanks, Scott Ritchie From seven.steps at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 03:16:07 2009 From: seven.steps at gmail.com (Daniel Chen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:16:07 -0400 Subject: Update on audio, call for testers, and ponies In-Reply-To: <16ddfb890908191604r5f318786u1527e0cb072aa339@mail.gmail.com> References: <604760770908191520v7dd50517i83b7abbf954e121a@mail.gmail.com> <16ddfb890908191604r5f318786u1527e0cb072aa339@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604760770909081916u522f365bwfe5268f57cb270f6@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:04 PM, LoonyPhoenix wrote: > all I liked. Then PCM disappeared and only master volume and per-application > volumes remained, and I had to be careful not to go above 85% when setting > master volume and I was all right. However, now I have to make sure all > applications don't go over 85%, and it's a pain, so I'll wind up disabling > flat volumes even though I like them better now. Also, I think the feature I have not seen or heard resounding protest regarding the upstream default to use volume=merge[0]. The handful of Karmic testers (less than one half-dozen who have contacted me directly, though I encourage everyone to publicise her/his discontent with the default on ubuntu-devel-discuss) who are annoyed by it have modified the necessary conffile[0]. However, I am concerned with avoiding serious use case regressions. Many people don't test Karmic until RC, so if they get volume=merge and are dismayed, it will be a bit late to get an idea whether they are "just" the vocal minority. PulseAudio itself is very, very near to 0.9.16 final, and just about every major set of hourly git commits have been in the ubuntu-audio-dev PPA. The next PA upload to Karmic will break with upstream in that we will set volume=ignore, which is the closest to existing behaviour for all Ubuntu releases shipping PulseAudio. If this behaviour is undesirable, speak now or forever hold your peace. -Dan [0] Quoting from /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output.conf.common: ; When a device shall change its volume, PA will got through the list ; of all elements with "volume = merge" and set the volume on the ; first element. If that element does not support dB volumes, this is ; where the story ends. If it does support dB volumes, PA divides the ; requested volume by the volume that was set on this element, and ; then go on to the next element with "volume = merge" and then set ; that there, and so on. That way the first volume element in the ; path will be the one that does the 'biggest' part of the overall ; volume adjustment, with the remaining elements usually being set to ; some value next to 0dB. This logic makes sure we get the full range ; over all volume sliders and a very high granularity of volumes ; already in hardware. ... ; volume = ignore | merge | off | zero # What to do with this volume: ignore it, merge it into the device ; # volume slider, always set it to the lowest value possible, or always ; # set it to 0 dB (for whatever that means) From pontillo at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 05:45:22 2009 From: pontillo at gmail.com (Mike Pontillo) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:45:22 -0700 Subject: Update on audio, call for testers, and ponies In-Reply-To: <604760770909081916u522f365bwfe5268f57cb270f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <604760770908191520v7dd50517i83b7abbf954e121a@mail.gmail.com> <16ddfb890908191604r5f318786u1527e0cb072aa339@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909081916u522f365bwfe5268f57cb270f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68240f9c0909082145t58db8d52j962daf78b297bf32@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Since I am part of the "vocal minority" I thought I'd speak up. I am using an HP laptop with an integrated Intel 82801G controller. I imagine there are a lot of similar laptops out there since HP likes to mass produce things. =) The speakers on this system sound *terrible* unless the PCM volume is turned down to ~75%-90%. It sounded so awful that I thought it might be a driver issue (perhaps it is, at least partially). The problem for me is actually worse than was described by LoonyPhoenix in the quoted message. Turning the volume down per application was not a viable workaround for me. The sound just got quieter, but still sounded terrible. So I am using the volume=ignore option as a workaround, which seems to fix the problem. I like the concept of how "volume=merge" works, and I think it would work for the majority of users with a minor tweak: allow the "maximum" PCM volume to be set at a level specified by the user (so if the master volume was set to 100%, that would map to, say 70%). I am probably oversimplifying things; I imagine the solution may be more difficult with surround sound setups, etc... I am not sure if the workaround of using "volume=ignore" is perfect (for example, I'd need to test further to see how the settings persist, or not, across a reboot) but it at least allows me to get decent sound out of this system, whereas with "volume=merge" pulseaudio would annoyingly readjust the PCM volume for me every time I tried to turn it down. Regards, Mike On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Daniel Chen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:04 PM, LoonyPhoenix wrote: >> all I liked. Then PCM disappeared and only master volume and per-application >> volumes remained, and I had to be careful not to go above 85% when setting >> master volume and I was all right. However, now I have to make sure all >> applications don't go over 85%, and it's a pain, so I'll wind up disabling >> flat volumes even though I like them better now. Also, I think the feature > > I have not seen or heard resounding protest regarding the upstream > default to use volume=merge[0]. The handful of Karmic testers (less > than one half-dozen who have contacted me directly, though I encourage > everyone to publicise her/his discontent with the default on > ubuntu-devel-discuss) who are annoyed by it have modified the > necessary conffile[0]. > > However, I am concerned with avoiding serious use case regressions. > Many people don't test Karmic until RC, so if they get volume=merge > and are dismayed, it will be a bit late to get an idea whether they > are "just" the vocal minority. > > PulseAudio itself is very, very near to 0.9.16 final, and just about > every major set of hourly git commits have been in the > ubuntu-audio-dev PPA. > > The next PA upload to Karmic will break with upstream in that we will > set volume=ignore, which is the closest to existing behaviour for all > Ubuntu releases shipping PulseAudio. If this behaviour is undesirable, > speak now or forever hold your peace. > > -Dan > > [0] Quoting from > /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-output.conf.common: > > ; When a device shall change its volume, PA will got through the list > ; of all elements with "volume = merge" and set the volume on the > ; first element. If that element does not support dB volumes, this is > ; where the story ends. If it does support dB volumes, PA divides the > ; requested volume by the volume that was set on this element, and > ; then go on to the next element with "volume = merge" and then set > ; that there, and so on. ?That way the first volume element in the > ; path will be the one that does the 'biggest' part of the overall > ; volume adjustment, with the remaining elements usually being set to > ; some value next to 0dB. This logic makes sure we get the full range > ; over all volume sliders and a very high granularity of volumes > ; already in hardware. > ... > ; volume = ignore | merge | off | zero ? # What to do with this > volume: ignore it, merge it into the device > ; ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# volume slider, always set > it to the lowest value possible, or always > ; ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# set it to 0 dB (for > whatever that means) > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 08:50:35 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:50:35 +0200 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> Message-ID: <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> Am Montag, den 07.09.2009, 14:31 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman: > Do we really need yet another IRC channel for this? Reviews are perfectly > on topic in the regular development channels and be conducting them in a > separate side channel fewer people will see them and learn from them. The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very busy very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, more quiet channel. Other opinions? Have a great day, Daniel From jldugger at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 14:58:26 2009 From: jldugger at ubuntu.com (Justin Dugger) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:58:26 -0500 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@70.211.40.222> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> Message-ID: <816bc7510909090658qfa06170hfe44acf6b86f27c7@mail.gmail.com> A scheduled format / classroom session will probably be more hectic than a pick-up channel. You could just hold it in -motu for a day or week and revisit the decision. Justin On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Am Montag, den 07.09.2009, 14:31 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman: >> Do we really need yet another IRC channel for this? ?Reviews are perfectly >> on topic in the regular development channels and be conducting them in a >> separate side channel fewer people will see them and learn from them. > > The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very busy > very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, more > quiet channel. > > Other opinions? > > Have a great day, > ?Daniel > > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > From cody.somerville at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 15:18:05 2009 From: cody.somerville at gmail.com (Cody A.W. Somerville) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:18:05 -0300 Subject: Should packages with PPA lineages preserve their PPA changelogs? In-Reply-To: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> References: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Scott Ritchie wrote: > If we start with foo 1.0-0ubuntu1 in the archive, and I make a PPA fork > for foo 1.1-0ubuntu1, and end up going through multiple PPA revisions > (say, foo 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1 through 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa6), should the > changelog entries for those revisions end up in the final upload to > Ubuntu proper? Or should I purge them and keep the changelog "pure" to > real Ubuntu uploads? Or should their content be merged somehow? > As others have said, its really up to you. However, be sure no matter what that you still accurately describe all the changes you made and that you properly retrain attribution if others performed uploads to the package in the PPA. Cheers, -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Systems Release Engineer Foundations Team Custom Engineering Solutions Group Canonical OEM Services Phone: +1-781-850-2087 Cell: +1-506-471-8402 Email: cody.somerville at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/6a6d73e7/attachment.htm From tim.gardner at canonical.com Wed Sep 9 15:18:25 2009 From: tim.gardner at canonical.com (Tim Gardner) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:18:25 -0600 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> Message-ID: <4AA7B931.1040906@canonical.com> Scott James Remnant wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 15:16 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote: > >> Before: >> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-karmic.png >> After: >> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-ppa.png >> >> Boot time is 50 seconds with both, just that with the PPA, it takes >> much longer to start gdm (presumably because services are started in >> the background). >> > The important thing is that the boot *works* with the PPA; I don't > expect it to be faster just yet. > > Of course, there's another more secret PPA with a couple of go-faster > bits ;-) > > Scott > Well, mine boots. ho-hum. How about the go-faster bits? -- Tim Gardner tim.gardner at canonical.com From lionel at alveonet.org Wed Sep 9 15:31:45 2009 From: lionel at alveonet.org (Lionel Porcheron) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:31:45 +0200 Subject: evolution-mapi In-Reply-To: <1252494361.28761.31.camel@saphira> References: <1252494361.28761.31.camel@saphira> Message-ID: <4AA7BC51.4080500@alveonet.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Matthias, Mattias Eriksson a ?crit : > It seems that evolution-mapi is out of sync with the rest of evolution. > Evolution mapi in karmic is still on version evolution-mapi-0.26.0.1 > from what I undestand, and that version has quite a few serious bugs, > that are fixed upstream. It should be able to handle non-ascii > characters, making it usable for people outside US. > > It would be great if karmic could use the evolution-mapi that is > developed to work with the evolution version included. > > //Mattias > I had the same problem this morning. I'm working on an updated package, but I need to do some testing before uploading. Package should reach the archive soon. Cheers, Lionel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqnvEsACgkQ5DXvknyEePxlvwCgxt99d5ZOnyXf7TCyC56TYEwU 2PYAn2QWAY1wRiy2Evkx8sdvCE+ikV9M =zhlZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tim.gardner at canonical.com Wed Sep 9 17:47:18 2009 From: tim.gardner at canonical.com (Tim Gardner) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:47:18 -0600 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <1252514698.2931.102.camel@quest> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> <4AA7B931.1040906@canonical.com> <1252514698.2931.102.camel@quest> Message-ID: <4AA7DC16.40906@canonical.com> Scott James Remnant wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 08:18 -0600, Tim Gardner wrote: > >> Well, mine boots. ho-hum. How about the go-faster bits? >> > You wouldn't need them if suspend worked in -10 :oP > > Scott yeah, well, hrmph. If I could get usb-creator-gtk to work, _then_ I could install a Karmic installation on a mini-9 so I could start debugging it. -- Tim Gardner tim.gardner at canonical.com From robbie at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 22:44:56 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:44:56 -0500 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing Message-ID: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> And if you are feeling insane...you can check out the "make it faster bits" here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-boot/+archive/staging On 09/09/2009 07:08 AM, Scott James Remnant wrote: > Are you running Karmic Alpha 5, or an even-more up to date Karmic? > > Are you feeling adventurous? > > Then I could do with your help testing some boot updates. > > > Firstly though, I would ask that if you have coursework or homework due > really soon; or something else that you really urgently need to do with > your computer, that you pass this by. While I'm pretty confident things > will work, if they don't, Murphy's law says they won't for you. > > Secondly if you're using network filesystems, please don't try this just > yet - I'll follow up when the necessary update for those is ready. > > > What you need to do: > > - Install bootchart and reboot. > > - Check that this gives you a baseline bootchart in /var/log/bootchart. > > - Add the ubuntu-boot PPA to your APT config: > > echo deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-boot/ppa/ubuntu karmic main > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntu-boot-ppa > > apt-get update > > - If you're running up to date Karmic, you can just "upgrade" from > here; otherwise something like the following should work: > > apt-get install anacron at avahi-daemon cron dbus hal hostname \ > module-init-tools network-manager procps rsyslog \ > initscripts sysvinit-utils sysv-rc udev upstart > > - Make sure the install/upgrade is successful. > > - Reboot again. > > - Obviously check that it boots, and that you get a new bootchart > in /var/log/bootchart > > - Mail *both* of these bootcharts to me (or the ubuntu-boot ML if you > want to share) > > Scott > From sgevatter at ubuntu.cat Thu Sep 10 00:26:22 2009 From: sgevatter at ubuntu.cat (Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT)) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:26:22 +0200 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> References: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <357b51820909091626p4ce16972jd8c2ddcb3d1cdaca@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/9 Robbie Williamson : > And if you are feeling insane...you can check out the "make it faster bits" here: > > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-boot/+archive/staging Survived the reboot with GDM not showing up unless being started manually and /etc/resolv.conf getting "nameserver 127.0.0.1" as content (even after several reconnection attempts, fixing the contents manually the connection works fine though). No visible speed change. Bootchart with the stuff from the PPA: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3264/gepardkarmic200909101.png and after downgrading back (forgot to do one before): http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9018/gepardkarmic200909102.png Also, I've seen this: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1502/10092009118.jpg -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Free Software Developer 363DEAE3 From alleykat at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 01:14:18 2009 From: alleykat at gmail.com (Travis Watkins) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:14:18 -0500 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Scott James Remnant wrote: > ?- Mail *both* of these bootcharts to me (or the ubuntu-boot ML if you > ? want to share) Before updates: http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9544/travislaptopkarmic20090.png After updates: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9544/travislaptopkarmic20090.png -- Travis Watkins http://www.realistanew.com From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 09:05:55 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:05:55 +0200 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> References: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20090910080555.GA3377@piware.de> Robbie Williamson [2009-09-09 16:44 -0500]: > And if you are feeling insane...you can check out the "make it faster bits" here: > > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-boot/+archive/staging Good news: It still boots. Bad news: With this PPA, boot time actually increases from 50 to 65 seconds. :-( gdm starts much earlier, but is sluggish due to all the background I/O that's going on, and thus starting the GNOME session takes even longer than it used to. Stock current Karmic (50 s): http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-karmic.png upstartified PPA (50 s): http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-ppa.png staging PPA (65 s): http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-crazy-ppa.png Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 11:14:22 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:14:22 +0200 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> Message-ID: <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> Am Mittwoch, den 09.09.2009, 09:50 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: > The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very busy > very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, more > quiet channel. The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html More opinions? Have a great day, Daniel From apw at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 11:29:46 2009 From: apw at canonical.com (Andy Whitcroft) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:29:46 +0100 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <4AA7DC16.40906@canonical.com> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> <4AA7B931.1040906@canonical.com> <1252514698.2931.102.camel@quest> <4AA7DC16.40906@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090910102946.GA8904@shadowen.org> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 10:47:18AM -0600, Tim Gardner wrote: > Scott James Remnant wrote: > > On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 08:18 -0600, Tim Gardner wrote: > > > >> Well, mine boots. ho-hum. How about the go-faster bits? > >> > > You wouldn't need them if suspend worked in -10 :oP > > > > Scott > > yeah, well, hrmph. If I could get usb-creator-gtk to work, _then_ I > could install a Karmic installation on a mini-9 so I could start > debugging it. That may be the i915 'gem teardown with interrupts enabled' bug which has a fix in the next kernel upload. -apw From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 11:34:01 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:34:01 +0100 Subject: [qistion] ubuntu-amd64-9.04-cann't Compile grub-0.97 through In-Reply-To: <408b9a610908241748s6a75b513la5ec7eba56e2d617@mail.gmail.com> References: <408b9a610908241748s6a75b513la5ec7eba56e2d617@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090910103401.GA30080@riva.ucam.org> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 08:48:59AM +0800, ?? wrote: > sudo apt-get sources grub > sudo tar -xzvf grub_0.97.orig.tar.gz > sudo gzip -d grub_0.97-29ubuntu53.diff.gz > > cd grub_0.97 > sudo patch -Np1 -i ../grub_0.97-29ubuntu53.diff All this is unnecessary - 'apt-get source grub' (no sudo needed) will fetch and unpack the source for you. > sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr 'debian/rules build', again no sudo; or, better, install the 'devscripts' package and use 'debuild -b -uc -us'. In general you should just build source as an ordinary user. > checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C > compiler cannot create executables You probably forgot to 'sudo apt-get install build-essential' before all of this, to get basic development packages installed. -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] From ubuntu at kitterman.com Thu Sep 10 13:10:33 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 8:10:33 -0400 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> Message-ID: <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:14:22 +0200 Daniel Holbach wrote: >Am Mittwoch, den 09.09.2009, 09:50 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: >> The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very busy >> very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, more >> quiet channel. > >The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: >https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html > >More opinions? We advertise #ubuntu-motu as the place to go to learn about packaging. I don't think having it be the place to learn about packaging, except if you want to review actual details about packaging, that's a different channel works very well. The Launchpad team isn't doing distro development and it would be prudent not to learn too many lessons about how Ubuntu should work from their very different project. Scott K From pgraner at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 15:50:29 2009 From: pgraner at canonical.com (Pete Graner) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:50:29 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Karmic] 2.6.31-10.31 kernel uploaded (Version Change)] Message-ID: <4AA91235.80007@canonical.com> Passing on for wider consumption. ~pete -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Karmic] 2.6.31-10.31 kernel uploaded (Version Change) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:44:57 +0100 From: Andy Whitcroft To: Ubuntu Kernel Team , ubuntu-installer at lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-mobile at lists.ubuntu.com We have just uploaded the 2.6.31-10.31 kernel for Karmic. This kernel is based onto the v2.6.31 final. Changelog at the URL below: https://www.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux/2.6.31-10.31 Note the rebase. This is the final rebase for the Karmic kernel. -apw -- kernel-team mailing list kernel-team at lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-team -- Pete Graner Manager Ubuntu Kernel Team Canonical Ltd. http://www.canonical.com/ From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 16:06:36 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:06:36 +0200 Subject: New MOTU: Benjamin Drung (bdrung) Message-ID: <1252595196.2855.17.camel@bert> Hello everybody, please give Benjamin Drung a warm welcome to the Development team! He's a great guy, lives in Berlin and likes origami. :-) Have a great day, Daniel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 16:12:34 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:12:34 +0200 Subject: New MOTU: Andres Rodriguez (andreserl, roaksoax) Message-ID: <1252595554.2855.22.camel@bert> Hello everybody, I'm very pleased to announce that Andres Rodriguez just joined the MOTU team! Please give him a very warm welcome to the team! Have a great day, Daniel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 16:20:21 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:20:21 +0200 Subject: New MOTU: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin-=C9ric?= Racine (q-funk) Message-ID: <1252596021.2855.33.camel@bert> Hello everybody, please join me in welcoming Martin-?ric Racine to the MOTU team. Have a great day, Daniel From mpt at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 15:16:00 2009 From: mpt at canonical.com (Matthew Paul Thomas) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:16:00 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA90A20.5070902@canonical.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If anyone's interested in the original subject of this thread: The Ubuntu Software Store 0.3.0 is now in Karmic. Please try it out and report bugs. ajmctaggart wrote on 01/09/09 16:42: > > Obviously Store is not very popular, nor Center. So what is it that > we are trying to accomplish with the title of this piece of Ubuntu? > Will it be unique and solely on Ubuntu? Or will this be installable > on other distros and therefore we want to keep the word "Ubuntu" out > of the title? The code is licensed under GPLv3+, so any other OS is free to use it. However, the selection of software available in the Ubuntu repositories is different from the selection of software available in the repositories of other OSes -- more different than, for example, the interface of a typical program in Ubuntu compared with the same program in another OS. Therefore, it's valuable to have "Ubuntu" in the name of this particular utility. That way, questions like "Is program X available in the Ubuntu Software Store?" have less ambiguous answers than they would if multiple OSes were using the same utility with the same name. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqpChsACgkQ6PUxNfU6eco9GwCePEST3ijNaev/EOii/5/JmQub aIQAoJGxu+1qOdK7suowcWT2nVRcRj4Z =egez -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mpt at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 16:14:44 2009 From: mpt at canonical.com (Matthew Paul Thomas) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:14:44 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> Message-ID: <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dylan McCall wrote on 01/09/09 18:15: >... > I'm a bit concerned about using price to distinguish things here. The > "price: free" thing is flawed, because it furthers the misconception > that free software is only free in price, when in fact being free in > price is quite irrelevant. Software with "price: $20" may still be > free as in libr?, which deserves credit! Is "get free software" going > to display stuff with price == 0.00, or is it going to display > software that is _free_? It will display stuff that is free in the sense most computer users understand it, i.e. free as in zero price. It would be cool if the Store could also present whether a package had a free or proprietary license, and if it did, I would specify that it should present free licenses as "open source" -- not because I particularly like that term, but because calling them "free" would be unacceptably confusing. Currently, however, there is no way for the Store to tell whether an arbitrary package in an arbitrary repository has a free or proprietary license. debian/copyright isn't machine-readable, and isn't included in Packages.gz anyway. We can assume that everything in Main (except Firefox and Thunderbird) has a free license, and that everything on archive.canonical.com has a proprietary license, but that's about it. It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to address this in the Packages.gz format. > Will this thingy be connecting to Launchpad? It would be neat to get > linked to code, bugs and answers directly from the store :) >... We plan to link it to Launchpad in the sense that Launchpad will store user-submitted suggestions for improved descriptions, categories, keywords, and screenshots/movies, as well as ratings and reviews (though these might be submitted directly in the Store rather than in a Web interface). I don't see what we would gain from linking directly to Launchpad Code, Bugs, and Answers, though. It would seem to make more sense to link to Launchpad from the applications themselves, and launchpad-integration already does this. And Ubuntu has too many bug reports, not too few. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqpF+AACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqJfACgv2lGsdy15taxFhIiCtHYdzhA qGUAn3bkDocUenuA2uhtqOAJMZlEMK7a =Q8Cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From robbie at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 17:55:04 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:55:04 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AA92F68.2000808@ubuntu.com> On 09/10/2009 10:14 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: [snip] > Currently, however, there is no way for the Store to tell whether an > arbitrary package in an arbitrary repository has a free or proprietary > license. debian/copyright isn't machine-readable, and isn't included in > Packages.gz anyway. We can assume that everything in Main (except > Firefox and Thunderbird) has a free license, and that everything on > archive.canonical.com has a proprietary license, but that's about it. > > It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to > address this in the Packages.gz format. http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat From sgevatter at ubuntu.cat Thu Sep 10 19:19:21 2009 From: sgevatter at ubuntu.cat (Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT)) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:19:21 +0200 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <1252582289.2876.0.camel@quest> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <1252582289.2876.0.camel@quest> Message-ID: <357b51820909101119h2c0ec952k6625287fd8297c9d@mail.gmail.com> Uoops ok, installed from both PPAs now. Now everything still works but it's got from 40 [0] seconds to 95 [1]. Boots after that fail entirely (ion helped me debug this on IRC but couldn't find out what the problem was). [0] http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1491/gepardkarmic200909105.png [1] http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9712/gepardkarmic200909106.png -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Free Software Developer 363DEAE3 From smoser at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 18:04:57 2009 From: smoser at ubuntu.com (Scott Moser) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RFC: EC2 / UEC Image updates Message-ID: For some time, the ubuntu server team has been producing ubuntu-server images to run on Amazon's ec2. Additionally, these images can be run un-modified as an instance in a Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud. I've been working on putting together a release policy for ec2 and uec images that will cover both stable and development releases. I've put that work at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UEC/Images/RefreshPolicy . The following is a copy and paste with quick re-format for email to make reading / responding easier. Please take a read if you have any suggestions for improvements or clarification, let me know. = Overview = This page covers the policy for releasing updated Ubuntu images to EC2. It is a work in progress and nothing is set in stone. Currently, EC2 and UEC Images are being built nightly [1] and corresponding with release milestones [2] for karmic. Updates to stable releases have been infrequent and were not covered by any policy or process. = Background Information = The following are things to consider: * As updates are made available to a development or stable release, the time it takes for an instance of that image to update itself increases. This is different than other releases. Each new instance is essentially a fresh media based install, and needs appropriate updates. * There is no way to change the default kernel (aki) and ramdisk (ari) associated with a AMI. Instead, you have to publish a new AMI each time a new kernel or ramdisk is available. * When starting an instance, the user ''can'' choose a different kernel and ramdisk than the default associated with the ami. * The kernel modules are stored on the AMI and must exactly match the kernel release name (e.g., "2.6.28-15-server"). If the updated AKI has an upgraded release, then the kernel modules on the AMI won't be useful with the new kernel. * There may occasionally be enhancements in Amazon's EC2 environment which would require changes to the ec2-init startup code so users can take advantage of them. = Kernel Updates = == Stable Releases == EC2 kernels and ramdisks will be released when kernel updates are done. For example, each time a new version of linux-image is released, a new aki and ami will be released. With the release of a new AKI and ARI, a new AMI will be released. The released AMI will include in it the new AKI and ARI as default kernel/ramdisk. It will also include any updates released since the previous AMI release. This will help alleviate possible release churn that might occur if need to refresh a AMI came soon after kernel release. == Development Releases == Kernels and ramdisks for development releases will be released when the corresponding AMIs are released. For development releases there will not be separate AMI and AKI/ARI releases. An AMI will be released with the latest kernel at that time. = AMI Updates = == Stable Releases == New AMIs will be published for stable releases based on a. The time it takes for an 'apt-get dist-upgrade' to occur on latest AMI for a given release. Experimentation will need to be done to determine how best to monitor this. The initial suggestion is to use the combined size of updates needed and refresh when that goes over a certain value. Also being considered is ac tually monitoring the time on an ec2 instance. b. Security updates or major flaws. If there are highly important security updates or major functionality fixes available that cannot be obtained via 'apt-get update', then new AMIs may be released to incorporate those changes outside of 'a' above. Such an example would be changes to software that runs on first boot (such as ec2-init) At the time of publish, AMIs will be associated with the latest AKI/ARI that is available. == Development Releases == Development releases will regularly update the AMIs. Each AMI published will reference the latest AKI/ARI available at the time. = Currency = We will need to provide an easy way for a user of Ubuntu EC2 images to find out what the most current version of their AMI is. For example, if the user is running 'ami-123456' that is hardy-i386, they will be interested to know if there are updates for that (aki,ari, or ami). The directory tree at [3] is currently being discussed. Some discussion is happening on bug 423856 [4] regarding ami images checking for updates themselves. = Support Life Time = The release policy above will apply to EC2 images for the same time frame that is applied to other Ubuntu Server releases. That is 5 years for LTS releases, and 18 months for other releases. This will apply to Karmic (9.10) and following releases. Additionally, it will apply to Hardy (8.04). -- [1] http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/karmic/alpha-4/ [2] http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/karmic/ [3] http://people.canonical.com/~soren/ec2-version-query/ [4] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/423856 From stgraber at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 04:54:49 2009 From: stgraber at ubuntu.com (=?UTF-8?B?U3TDqXBoYW5lIEdyYWJlcg==?=) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:54:49 -0400 Subject: New MOTU: =?UTF-8?B?TWFydGluLcOJcmljIFJhY2luZSAocS1mdW5rKQ==?= In-Reply-To: <1252596021.2855.33.camel@bert> References: <1252596021.2855.33.camel@bert> Message-ID: <4AA9CA09.4050300@ubuntu.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello everybody, > > please join me in welcoming Martin-?ric Racine to the MOTU team. > > Have a great day, > Daniel Yeah, you made it. Congratulations. St?phane -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqpygkACgkQjxyfqkjBhuxTFwCeMMVVescIrjYzTIjkh5/9YTsa lgYAnjudznEq5SjTpFrjkzUJHxzGXRir =CepB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ehammond at thinksome.com Fri Sep 11 01:57:06 2009 From: ehammond at thinksome.com (Eric Hammond) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:57:06 -0700 Subject: [launchpad-net] RFC: EC2 / UEC Image updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA9A062.1090205@thinksome.com> Scott Moser wrote: > This will apply to Karmic (9.10) and following releases. Additionally, it > will apply to Hardy (8.04). 1. Is Canonical officially dropping support for the Intrepid (8.10) EC2 images currently published? I believe there are bugs in the current Intrepid image which would be nice to clear up for folks using it. Intrepid has another half year of life left. 2. Is Canonical officially not going to publish a Jaunty (9.04) EC2 image? Many users are currently running production systems on the Jaunty images I publish for EC2. I would love to migrate them over to Jaunty images from Canonical before its end of life which is over a year away. Otherwise, I need to keep releasing updates for Jaunty, and if I'm updating Jaunty I might as well keep updating everything :-\ -- Eric Hammond ehammond at thinksome.com From steve.langasek at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 07:28:16 2009 From: steve.langasek at ubuntu.com (Steve Langasek) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:28:16 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> References: <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090911062816.GB14802@dario.dodds.net> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:14:44PM +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to > address this in the Packages.gz format. I think this is unlikely to wind up in the Packages file in Debian over concerns about increasing the size of this index for all users with information not used by the package manager per se. But I agree it would be nice to make this information available to the software store, perhaps via an adjunct metadata file on the servers. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek at ubuntu.com vorlon at debian.org From bryce at canonical.com Fri Sep 11 09:47:21 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:47:21 -0700 Subject: New MOTU: Martin-?ric Racine (q-funk) In-Reply-To: <1252596021.2855.33.camel@bert> References: <1252596021.2855.33.camel@bert> Message-ID: <20090911084721.GC6682@bryceharrington.org> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 05:20:21PM +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello everybody, > > please join me in welcoming Martin-??ric Racine to the MOTU team. > > Have a great day, > Daniel Congrats Martin! From jorge at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 15:50:27 2009 From: jorge at ubuntu.com (Jorge O. Castro) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:50:27 -0400 Subject: Request for team TODO items. Message-ID: Hello Ubuntu Developers! We are organizing the Ubuntu Global Jam for 2-4 October 2009. This is the event where Local Teams and individuals from around the world get together to help work on Ubuntu. Right now a team can run a Bug, Packaging, Doc, or Translation Jam, however there are plenty of instances where people just want to get together and work on a big-list-o-stuff. We're looking for Ubuntu Teams to fill out the list of tasks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam#Tasks We prefer the easier tasks, but the idea is to present participants with a digestible list to get started. You'll also notice that the Jam is conveniently held the weekend after Beta release, so if you have a list of things that need to be tested thoroughly then that would be appropriate to put on the list. We know a bunch of teams already have lists like this on their section of the wiki, so if you could help us out by just cross-linking to the proper section that would be appreciated as well. This would also be a great event to plan a "call-for-testing" around or perhaps get that wiki page or documentation up-to-date. If you have any questions mail myself or Daniel Holbach, we're in #ubuntu-locoteams on Freenode too. Cheers! -- Jorge Castro jorge (at) ubuntu.com External Project Developer Relations Canonical Ltd. From stefan.potyra at informatik.uni-erlangen.de Fri Sep 11 19:33:36 2009 From: stefan.potyra at informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Stefan Potyra) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:33:36 +0200 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <20090911180118.GN7879@murraytwins.com> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> <20090911180118.GN7879@murraytwins.com> Message-ID: <200909112034.04879.stefan.potyra@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Hi, Am Friday 11 September 2009 20:01:18 schrieb Brian Murray: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:10:33AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:14:22 +0200 Daniel Holbach > > > > wrote: > > >Am Mittwoch, den 09.09.2009, 09:50 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: > > >> The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very > > >> busy very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, > > >> more quiet channel. > > > > > >The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: > > >https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html > > > > > >More opinions? > > > > We advertise #ubuntu-motu as the place to go to learn about packaging. > > I don't think having it be the place to learn about packaging, except > > if you want to review actual details about packaging, that's a > > different channel works very well. *Nod*, yes I guess calls for reviews are on-topic for the development channels, so I don't see any need for an additional channel. > > I don't think this is a very good argument because the #ubuntu-reviews > channel is not for just reviewing packaging as you say, rather it is for > reviewing code. This would include reviewing patches that have not been > incorporated into a debdiff. Reviewing patching is an important part of packaging, whether in debdiff format or otherwise. Or do you mean that #ubuntu-reviews should target mainly software authors' questions in regards to coding? Cheers, Stefan. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090911/52a8cb72/attachment.pgp From robbie at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 20:49:45 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:49:45 -0500 Subject: Foundations Team Weekly Status, 2009-09-02 Message-ID: <4AAAA9D9.1060504@ubuntu.com> Apologies for the delay. = No Meeting This Week = == Activity reports == === Colin Watson === * Uploaded initial Eucalyptus installer support. Ongoing bug-fixes as testing became feasible. * Further discussion with GRUB2 upstream about keystatus interface design. Uploaded first plausible version to Ubuntu. * Uploaded preseedable LVM-on-RAID support. Working on wedging support for it into kickseed. * Merged: grub2 (twice) * Fixed mouseemu #419947 (mouseemu prevents use of multi-button mice). * Fixed hw-detect #251830 (don't install mouseemu on Intel Mac desktops). * Merged Dell Driver Injection Disk support (#341526). * Backported fix for console-setup #390292 (undefined kernel key code warnings) to Karmic. * Arranged for grub-installer to pass user kernel parameters through to grub2. * Miscellaneous installer updates for Alpha 5, especially translations. * Sponsorship: * rsyslog #407862. === Evan Dandrea === * Short week. Vacation on Monday and Tuesday. * Fixed some small bugs in the slideshow code. The slideshow is now fully functional and working on resolutions greater than or equal to 800x600, its intended target. * Spoke with the design team about getting their input on the slides. * Guided Roman on how he could best build on the work of the ubiquity-slideshow team to create a KDE slideshow package. * Followed up on the plugins merge. I was set to merge it in, but decided to hold off to give Mario and Colin more time to look it over. I spoke with Steve about it briefly and filed bug #419989 for the FFe. * Filed bug 419796 on devicekit-disks, which is preventing usb-creator from having a working format button. * Backported some debian-installer changes for bug 234185. * Fixes to usb-creator. === James Westby === ==== Distro tasks ==== * bzr 1.18 and associated packages uploaded to karmic. * Talked with dobey about oauth packages. * Many reviews/sponsoring/uploads for people who wanted things in before FF. ==== Distributed Development ==== * Followed up on a few Launchpad things that are waiting. * Spoke to jml about branch permissions. * Landed some fixes from Muharem. ==== Daily Builds ==== * bzr-builder uploaded to karmic. ==== Kerneloops ==== * kerneloops-daemon seeded. === Lars Wirzenius === * Work on getting apt to use zsync for updating Packages files. Waiting for feedback from Michael Vogt on my patch. === Matthias Klose === === Michael Vogt === ==== software-store (was app-center) ==== * Update software-store copyright to gpl-3 * trying to follow the change in the software-store spec * create webkit branch * use webkit for rending of the application details page * Add "add_repository" functionatliy to aptdaemon * make the categories view emit proper signals so that the app class can react * much improved search entry * Fix crash in aptdaemon (#403467) * open cache in the background and keep gtk alive * add basic keyboard navigation * discuss private PPA integration (APIs missing) * add "enable-channel" functionality in software-store * Fix crash in software-store postrm * Work on the progress animation icon (with rugby471) * add launchpad integration into software-store * Debug/fix problem when the aptdaemon stops because of inactivty (we need to reconnect our signals) * Add jcastro to the project and activate his daily builds ppa * Show rdepends count in softtware-store for installed apps * Review/merge changes from lp:~rugby471/software-store/software-store-andrew * add "CellRendererAnimatedImage" for the progress view * rework the webkit branch to have a "WebkitWidget" base class that supports running python code from the html/JS and running JS from python * Update aptdaemon branch to include "wait-for-dpkg-lock" feature * add substituation support based on string.Template() * Work on the webkit branch, merge changes from rugby471, support basic thumb fetching (from screenshots.debian.net) * make the category view a webkit widget to be able to display it the way the spec says * kill right click menu in webview, enable simple keyboard navigation in the category view * update pending view on initial startup ==== update-manager ==== * Merge the update-manager change from seb back into bzr * Work on base-installer integraton ==== compiz ==== * Upload new compiz-bcop (bugfix) to archive * Upload more compiz fixes to the compiz PPA * Tighten compiz dependencies, upload a bunch of new packages to the compiz ppa ==== apt/synaptic ==== * Debug/fix synaptic crash * debug/fix segfault in apt * Add patch for apt ALLCAPS problem to the apt mvo branch ==== misc ==== * Phonecall with doko about python-robustness * Fix duplicated IDs in gdebi and upload new version (#422096) * Bug triage/fixing gdebi (two crashes) * Add lzma as a valid member to python-debian (so that it no longer crashes) * make gdebi more robust against crashes from python-debian * Add "--auto-close" option to gdebi to have better auto-test capabilities * Phonecall with robbiew ==== sponsoring ==== * Review/sponsoring gtk-vnc, vinagre, notification-daemon, gnome-control-center * Review/merge/upload software-properties string fix #420672 * Review/merge/upload apturl kde frontend === Mike Terry === ==== Ubiquity ==== * Continued to work on my plugins branch (merge with trunk, bugfix). There is an FFE for it, but will be pushed after Alpha 5 to minimize any risk. * Did a bunch of bug cleanup (closed out bugs that are fixed by my timezone work or no longer apply) * Investigated better mangling of user's real name into a POSIX username. Seems like we need a feature patch from upstream PyICU svn before we can properly fix this. ==== Rsyslog ==== * Fixed an annoying bug with permissions on output log files. If rsyslog received a HUP (as it does when rotating logs), it might not have been able to write to a root-owned syslog anymore. === Muharem Hrnjadovic === ==== Distributed development ==== * More tests and fixes for "merge-package" bzr command, see: - lp:~al-maisan/bzr-builddeb/locked-repo-updates - lp:~al-maisan/bzr-builddeb/missing-tests ==== Archive administration ==== ===== Syncs ===== * libio-compress-perl * f libio-compress-perl * f python-numpy * libtorrent-rasterbar * taglib * xboard ===== Component mismatches ===== Checked out a number of potential mismatches. It turned out neither of these were to be demoted to universe: * language-support-translations-*, in the process of being replaced by language-selector * ibus-qt/ibus-qt4 needed by Kubuntu * nvclock/smartdimmer needed by hal === Scott James Remnant === ==== Boot Performance ==== * Merged current debhelper with Steve and Joey's pass of a dh_installinit with Upstart support. Extended it to provide maintainer scripts that use proper Upstart commands, and do support optional replacement of init scripts of the same name * Hostname patched to support fallback default ("localhost") if the file doesn't exist or is empty, and no hostname is set. This eliminates all the need for work in the initscript/Upstart job. * Bulk of rcS and gdm-critical Upstart jobs packaged from max * Rewrote the upstart-event helper binary into an upstart-udev-bridge daemon that's somewhat more efficient since we don't need to fork/exec all the time * Added that to the Upstart source tree for the Ubuntu package * Began adding the "mountall" code, which needs some work to support the more complex configurations but works for the simple cases. === Steve Langasek === ==== Release management ==== * NEW processing for FeatureFreeze * UDW session on FFes * Alpha5 prep ==== Specs ==== * foundations-karmic-multiarch-support: knocked a number of items off the dpkg todo list; evaluated the current upstream status and took the decision to defer this until karmic+1 ==== Sponsorship ==== * pam (bug #285574) * boost1.37 (bug #371617) * net6 (bug #422149) ==== Misc ==== * Monday archive duties From steve.langasek at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 20:55:05 2009 From: steve.langasek at ubuntu.com (Steve Langasek) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:55:05 -0700 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <20090911180118.GN7879@murraytwins.com> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> <20090911180118.GN7879@murraytwins.com> Message-ID: <20090911195505.GB359@dario.dodds.net> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:01:18AM -0700, Brian Murray wrote: > > We advertise #ubuntu-motu as the place to go to learn about packaging. > > I don't think having it be the place to learn about packaging, except > > if you want to review actual details about packaging, that's a > > different channel works very well. > I don't think this is a very good argument because the #ubuntu-reviews > channel is not for just reviewing packaging as you say, rather it is for > reviewing code. This would include reviewing patches that have not been > incorporated into a debdiff. I would certainly expect code review to be in scope for #ubuntu-motu as well... -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek at ubuntu.com vorlon at debian.org From ubuntu at kitterman.com Fri Sep 11 22:16:25 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:16:25 -0400 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <20090911193533.GH5789@beamer> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> <20090911193533.GH5789@beamer> Message-ID: <10169-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6D06EAF@[75.199.72.125]> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:35:33 +0200 Soren Hansen wrote: >On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:10:33AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: >>>The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: >>>https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html >> The Launchpad team isn't doing distro development > >Indeed, they are not. However, they do have what to me seems like an >excellent review process and culture going on. > >> and it would be prudent not to learn too many lessons about how Ubuntu >> should work from their very different project. > >The fact that they're not working on a distro doesn't automatically >invalidate any and all experiences they've gathered. > >Just sayin'. > Certainly, but we focus a lot more on growing our development community through teaching new developers AFAICT. Doing reviews in a "public" place is benificial for this. I can certainly see that either way has advantages and disadvantages. For Ubuntu, I think optimizing for exposing more people to the information to be learned in a review is the better answer. Scott K From nhandler at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 22:42:36 2009 From: nhandler at ubuntu.com (Nathan Handler) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:42:36 +0000 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > It'd be great if we could extend the meme somewhat and have regular > reviews in #ubuntu-reviews. If you feel like you have an hour of time > for doing some reviews, join the channel, add your name to the topic of > the channel and be prepared to get a few questions. :-) After reading the responses, it looks like for the most part, we are in agreement that the review process would be on-topic for #ubuntu-motu. The big question is whether or not it would be better to have the reviews in their own channel. The way I see it, there are 4 parties involved that we should consider. The first party is the on-call reviewer. This user would be tasked with reviewing any patches that users present to them during their designated time period. If no users are around, they process patches waiting in the sponsorship queue. For the reviewer, it would be a lot easier to see messages needing their attention if they are in a separate channel. The negative of this is that the reviewer is required to be in one additional IRC channel (for at least the period of time that they are the reviewer). The second party is the user requesting a review of their patch. As long as we make it clear in the /topic who the active reviewer is, I do not think it would be too difficult for the user to get the reviewer's attention. It might be slightly more difficult for the user to follow the conversation related to the review of his patch if the channel is busy, but for the most part, I do not think this will be an issue. The third party involved are new contributors who idle in the development channels to learn from other users and developers. By holding reviews in a separate channel, these users would have to start idling in one extra channel. One thing we need to be careful of is making sure that if we move reviews to a different channel, that these users still feel comfortable talking and participating in conversations that take place. We do not want to create a channel where users feel as if only the reviewer and the user having his/her patch currently reviewed are allowed to talk. The third party is made up of all of the developers who idle in #ubuntu-motu to help answer questions. If we move reviews to their own channel, I have a feeling that a lot of these users will not join the new channel to help review. I might not be giving our developers enough credit, but I think that most of them (who are not serving as reviewers) will simply stay in -motu. These are simply a few things to consider. I personally do not have strong feelings either way about where we hold the reviews. Nathan From DaveWalker at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 12 01:03:12 2009 From: DaveWalker at ubuntu.com (Dave Walker) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:03:12 +0100 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <10169-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6D06EAF@[75.199.72.125]> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> <20090911193533.GH5789@beamer> <10169-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6D06EAF@[75.199.72.125]> Message-ID: <4AAAE540.10901@ubuntu.com> Scott Kitterman wrote: > Certainly, but we focus a lot more on growing our development community > through teaching new developers AFAICT. Doing reviews in a "public" place > is benificial for this. > > I can certainly see that either way has advantages and disadvantages. For > Ubuntu, I think optimizing for exposing more people to the information to > be learned in a review is the better answer. > > Scott K > > Hi Scott, Throwing in my Threepence. Surely, if #ubuntu-reviews is publicly logged and kept ontopic for reviews, and is turn based - then the logs would be a really concise nugget in someone attempting to learn by reading the logs at a later date. This has the obvious advantage of not having the side noise that makes the current #ubuntu-{motu|devel} logs not much use. Kind Regards, Dave Walker From fabio at tranchitella.it Mon Sep 14 10:10:17 2009 From: fabio at tranchitella.it (Fabio Tranchitella) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:10:17 +0200 Subject: Distro Summit 2010: Call for Papers Message-ID: <20090914091017.GC23252@mail.26dimensions.com> =============== CALL FOR PAPERS =============== Distro Summit 2010 is a one-day technical conference with a strong focus on collaboration between Free Software distributions hosted at the linux.conf.au 2010. We are looking for proposals from any Free Software distribution, from the typical full distributions (both linux and non-linux) to the niche market derivatives. In spite of the strong focus on collaboration between Free Software distributions, topics may include packaging, maintenance, relationship with upstream developers, release management and QA. For more informtion, please visit: http://distrosummit.org. Important dates =============== * Call for papers ends: Wednesday 30 September 2009 * Announcing the schedule: Friday 2 October 2009 * Conference begins: Monday 18 January 2010 Presentation types ================== We will accept proposals for: * 25 minute standard-length presentations; * 50 minute long presentations. Session lengths include time for audience questions. We intend for standard-length presentation to make up the vast majority of our presentations. If you plan on submitting a proposal for a long presentation, a willingness to present a standard-length presentation will impact positively on your proposal. Submit a proposal ================= To submit your proposal, we'll need the following information: * Your name, contact details and a short biography; * Your proposal title; * Intended audience; * An abstract; * Presentation outline; * Presentation type (standard-length or long). To submit a proposal, or get more information, please write to cfp at distrosummit.org. About the Distro Summit ======================= The Distro Summit 2010 is a one-day developer conference with a strong focus on collaboration between free software distributions hosted at the linux.conf.au 2010 (http://www.lca2010.org.nz). In addition to a schedule of technical, social and policy talks, the Distro Summit provides an opportunity for developers, contributors and other interested people to meet in person and work together more closely. Previous similar events have featured speakers from around the world. They have also been extremely beneficial for developing key free software software components and for improving collaboration and sharing between the different distributions. Target Audience =============== The Distro Summit is (mainly) a technical event, but this does not mean that the only target audience are developers and maintainers of free software distributions: the event will feature talks that range from the development to real-world use cases, going through marketing and the social aspects of the maintenance of free software distributions. -- Fabio Tranchitella on the behalf of the Distro Summit organizers From jw+debian at jameswestby.net Mon Sep 14 14:14:22 2009 From: jw+debian at jameswestby.net (James Westby) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:14:22 +0100 Subject: Springlobby, spring-engine, spring-mods-kernelpanic packages in New queue In-Reply-To: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> References: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> Message-ID: <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> On Mon Sep 07 01:00:23 +0100 2009 Scott Ritchie wrote: > The initial versions of these packages were uploaded long before feature > freeze, however they were rejected due to incompleteness in the > copyright file. I've since cleaned it up and reuploaded - I was told > this was ok. If I need to file a Freeze Exception let me know. Are these packages intended for multiverse? spring-engine is non-free, so will have to go there if at all: Any person wishing to distribute modifications to the Software is requested to send the modifications to the original developer so that they can be incorporated into the canonical version. springlobby appears to be undistributable in its current form: Copyright (C) 1991-2, RSA Data Security, Inc. Created 1991. All rights reserved. License to copy and use this software is granted provided that it is identified as the "RSA Data Security, Inc. MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm" in all material mentioning or referencing this software or this function. License is also granted to make and use derivative works provided that such works are identified as "derived from the RSA Data Security, Inc. MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm" in all material mentioning or referencing the derived work. which is an extra restriction, which is disallowed by the GPL, which is the predominant license of the package. In addition, you don't reproduce the warranty disclaimer debian/copyright, as required by the GPL. I haven't rejected the packages yet, as I would like a second opinion. Thanks, James From scott at open-vote.org Mon Sep 14 14:43:45 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:43:45 -0700 Subject: Springlobby, spring-engine, spring-mods-kernelpanic packages in New queue In-Reply-To: <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> References: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> Message-ID: <4AAE4891.2010202@open-vote.org> James Westby wrote: > On Mon Sep 07 01:00:23 +0100 2009 Scott Ritchie wrote: >> The initial versions of these packages were uploaded long before feature >> freeze, however they were rejected due to incompleteness in the >> copyright file. I've since cleaned it up and reuploaded - I was told >> this was ok. If I need to file a Freeze Exception let me know. > > Are these packages intended for multiverse? > No, regular Universe. > spring-engine is non-free, so will have to go there if at all: > > Any person wishing to distribute modifications to the Software is > requested to send the modifications to the original developer so that > they can be incorporated into the canonical version. > > This isn't a license requirement, just an informal request. Spring-engine is still GPL. > springlobby appears to be undistributable in its current form: > > Copyright (C) 1991-2, RSA Data Security, Inc. Created 1991. All rights > reserved. License to copy and use this software is granted provided that > it is identified as the "RSA Data Security, Inc. MD5 Message-Digest > Algorithm" in all material mentioning or referencing this software or > this function. License is also granted to make and use derivative works > provided that such works are identified as "derived from the RSA Data > Security, Inc. MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm" in all material mentioning > or referencing the derived work. > > which is an extra restriction, which is disallowed by the GPL, which is > the predominant license of the package. This file has been removed in the latest version and replaced with a non-RSA-derived one. I may need to make a new upload, I forget if the version in the queue includes this change. > > In addition, you don't reproduce the warranty disclaimer debian/copyright, > as required by the GPL. > > I haven't rejected the packages yet, as I would like a second opinion. > > Thanks, > > James > Let me know if there are any other issues. Thanks, Scott Ritchie From jw+debian at jameswestby.net Mon Sep 14 14:57:08 2009 From: jw+debian at jameswestby.net (James Westby) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:57:08 +0100 Subject: Springlobby, spring-engine, spring-mods-kernelpanic packages in New queue In-Reply-To: <4AAE4891.2010202@open-vote.org> References: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> <4AAE4891.2010202@open-vote.org> Message-ID: <1252936493-sup-1926@flash> On Mon Sep 14 14:43:45 +0100 2009 Scott Ritchie wrote: > This isn't a license requirement, just an informal request. It's written smack-bang in the middle of the license though, which is always a risky place to write non-requirements of the license, as they look just like requirements. I'm not sure whether we can read it as a request, or whether we have to read it as a requirement. > This file has been removed in the latest version and replaced with a > non-RSA-derived one. I may need to make a new upload, I forget if the > version in the queue includes this change. I just took that from debian/copyright, I didn't check if the file was included or not. Thanks, James From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 14 15:10:56 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:10:56 +0200 Subject: Springlobby, spring-engine, spring-mods-kernelpanic packages in New queue In-Reply-To: <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> References: <4AA44D17.4090107@open-vote.org> <1252933569-sup-2899@flash> Message-ID: <20090914141056.GC2992@piware.de> James Westby [2009-09-14 14:14 +0100]: > Any person wishing to distribute modifications to the Software is > requested to send the modifications to the original developer so that > they can be incorporated into the canonical version. I would read this as a "should", not a "is required", and as such doesn't really restrict the GPL, as far as I understand it. I agree to James that it would be better to put these kinds of statements at the top of the license, aside from the official legalese, though. Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From guillemsalas at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 09:44:40 2009 From: guillemsalas at gmail.com (Guillem Salas) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:44:40 +0000 Subject: Strange behavior of Ubuntu 9.04 with gcc-4.3 Message-ID: <8ac76a3e0909150144ib3a25e4t1c862d60766d98a6@mail.gmail.com> Hi! I don't know if I have to write to this list, but there is the problem: Last day I was working in some examples of C programming and I found an strange behavior of Ubuntu 9.04 with gcc-4.3 (default box). This little program reads from a file some records (year and name). In the first line there is the total amount of records that exists on the file. Next, it saves records corresponding to year 2000 in a file called Salida.txt and shows all the read records to stdout. When you run this C code on a Ubuntu 8.10 (with also gcc-4.3), it works OK. If you run it on a Windows Box, it runs OK. But if you run this code on Ubuntu 9.04, first record of the file, it shows you a strange character at the end of the name. It also saves this character on the Salida.txt file. It's nothing heavy, but it is very strange. If you don't understand my English, I can wrote in Spanish and show some screenshot of the error. regards, Guillem Salas guillemsalas at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: error.tgz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 1277 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090915/ca8abd8e/attachment.bin From thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 15 11:14:04 2009 From: thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:14:04 +0200 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> Message-ID: <4AAF68EC.8030304@ubuntu.com> Nathan Handler wrote: > The way I see it, there are 4 > parties involved that we should consider. > [...] I agree, the choice of channel depends on who you want to privilege. I tend to prefer a separate channel, as it makes it easier for the on-call reviewer and the people that want their stuff reviewed. It's difficult to follow the discussion without bringing up the code being reviewed, so there is less benefit than usual for idling bystanders. Questions on work-in-progress should still get asked and answered in #ubuntu-motu, so that everyone benefit from the answers. But when it comes to reviewing a specific, ready-for-review change or package, I think it makes sense to have the discussion between the author and the reviewer in a separate channel. -- Thierry Carrez Ubuntu server team From macoafi at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 13:51:15 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:51:15 -0400 Subject: Strange behavior of Ubuntu 9.04 with gcc-4.3 In-Reply-To: <8ac76a3e0909150144ib3a25e4t1c862d60766d98a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8ac76a3e0909150144ib3a25e4t1c862d60766d98a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909150851.16326.macoafi@gmail.com> On Tuesday 15 September 2009 4:44:40 am Guillem Salas wrote: > Hi! > I don't know if I have to write to this list, but there is the problem: > Last day I was working in some examples of C programming and I found > an strange behavior of Ubuntu 9.04 with gcc-4.3 (default box). > > This little program reads from a file some records (year and name). In > the first line there is the total amount of records that exists on the > file. > > Next, it saves records corresponding to year 2000 in a file called > Salida.txt and shows all the read records to stdout. > > When you run this C code on a Ubuntu 8.10 (with also gcc-4.3), it > works OK. If you run it on a Windows Box, it runs OK. But if you run > this code on Ubuntu 9.04, first record of the file, it shows you a > strange character at the end of the name. It also saves this character > on the Salida.txt file. It's nothing heavy, but it is very strange. Can you file a bug with some example code and an input file so we can reproduce it? > If you don't understand my English, I can wrote in Spanish and show > some screenshot of the error. Your English is great :) -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From malcolm.parsons at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 11:06:28 2009 From: malcolm.parsons at gmail.com (Malcolm) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:06:28 +0100 Subject: Strange behavior of Ubuntu 9.04 with gcc-4.3 In-Reply-To: <8ac76a3e0909150144ib3a25e4t1c862d60766d98a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <8ac76a3e0909150144ib3a25e4t1c862d60766d98a6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/9/15 Guillem Salas : > This little program reads from a file some records (year and name). There is a bug in your program, here's a patch: diff --git a/prova.c b/prova.c index 98d493b..42f33d8 100644 --- a/prova.c +++ b/prova.c @@ -66,7 +66,7 @@ int LeerDiscos( char* NomFichero, AlgoAd return 1; } /* Alliberem mem?ria per al titol */ - A->regs[i].name = malloc(sizeof(char)*strlen(tmp)); + A->regs[i].name = malloc(sizeof(char)*(strlen(tmp)+1)); if (A->regs[i].name == NULL) { perror("Problem allocating memory\n"); return 1; This is how I found it: > gcc -Wall -g prova.c -o test > valgrind ./test ==28849== Memcheck, a memory error detector. ==28849== Copyright (C) 2002-2006, and GNU GPL'd, by Julian Seward et al. ==28849== Using LibVEX rev 1658, a library for dynamic binary translation. ==28849== Copyright (C) 2004-2006, and GNU GPL'd, by OpenWorks LLP. ==28849== Using valgrind-3.2.2.SVN, a dynamic binary instrumentation framework. ==28849== Copyright (C) 2000-2006, and GNU GPL'd, by Julian Seward et al. ==28849== For more details, rerun with: -v ==28849== ==28849== Invalid write of size 1 ==28849== at 0x4C23E35: strcpy (in /usr/lib64/valgrind/amd64-linux/vgpreload_memcheck.so) ==28849== by 0x400A62: LeerDiscos (prova.c:74) ==28849== by 0x400C64: main (prova.c:117) ==28849== Address 0x4051334 is 0 bytes after a block of size 28 alloc'd ==28849== at 0x4C22889: malloc (in /usr/lib64/valgrind/amd64-linux/vgpreload_memcheck.so) ==28849== by 0x4009FF: LeerDiscos (prova.c:69) ==28849== by 0x400C64: main (prova.c:117) Total de registres existents: 5. -- Malcolm Parsons From robbie at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 15 15:18:48 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:18:48 -0500 Subject: Security Team Weekly Report, 2009-09-15 Message-ID: <4AAFA248.2000807@ubuntu.com> = Jamie Strandboge = Role: happy place == Issue Tracking == * bug triage * CVE triage == Updates == * openssl sponsored upload for mdeslaur * qt4-x11 update * analyze, patch, build, test, publish (USN-829-1) * write and integrate reproducer into QRT * firefox update (test, publish USN-821-1) * investigate gnutls openpgp regression * ia32-libs update for Karmic == Technology Development == * AppArmor/libvirt * upstream resubmission #1 (based on initial feedback) * fix LP: #427338 (apparmor profile for libvirtd should be in enforce mode) * update README.Debian documentation to match upstream * start testing upstream patches for karmic * file and follow up on LP: #427900 (nautilus (via gvfs) shows all my schroots in Places) == Community == * update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview for apparmor and ufw * blog about AppArrmor/SFTP technique == Archive == * binary deNEW linux-mvl-dove * fix synclib.py to work when there is no previous version * fix backport.py to handle requestor with hidden email address * process sync requests * process various bugs and backports * process NEW = Kees Cook = Weekly Role: triage == Issue Tracking == * triaged about 150 CVEs * triaged security bugs * investigating rhythmbox overflow heap execution (LP: #427602). == Updates == * tested/published pam updates (USN-828-1) * patch/build/test glib2.0 updates == Technology Development == * proposed change to glibc malloc error template. == Technology Integration == * discussed remaining AppArmor userspace bugs. * fixed bug in Apport where gdb output was going missing. * updated AppArmor to delay mount point testing. * sponsored upload of ubuntu-dev-tools bug-fix (LP: #416438). * update udev with upstream commits (LP: #385934, #407428). * discussing apache2 apparmor packaging. == Auditing == * investigated openssl chain validation failures (LP: #421027) * investigated pam bugs LP: #426923, #426658 == Community == * review/upload gnome-ppp from mdeslaur. = Marc Deslauriers = Weekly role: community == Updates == * Researched and worked on htmldoc updates * Researched and worked on openssl updates - Sent patch URL to Debian regression bug report * Researched and worked on openexr updates == Technology development == * qa-regression-testing: - Added tests to test-openssl.py - Wrote test-openexr.py testing script * Opened evolution bug "contacts displayed twice in new email contact list" (LP: #428917) * AppArmor - Worked on apache2 profile - Researched and opened bug "aa-logprof doesn't handle "open" log entries" (LP: #427966) - Researched and opened bug "network operations not getting reported on karmic" (LP: #427948) == Community == * Applied for MOTU From robbie at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 15 15:35:27 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:35:27 -0500 Subject: Foundations Weekly Summary, 2009-09-09 Message-ID: <4AAFA62F.2090509@ubuntu.com> For minutes of previous meetings, please see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam. == Present == * RobbieWilliamson - chair * ColinWatson * EvanDandrea * JamesWestby * LarsWirzenius * MatthiasKlose * MichaelVogt * MikeTerry * MuharemHrnjadovic * ScottJamesRemnant * SteveLangasek == Agenda == * Status Updates on [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic|Karmic]] * Alpha 6 Deliverables * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#AppCenter_1.0|Ubuntu Software Store]] * '''UI Freeze tomorrow''' * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Power_Management_Infrastructure_Cleanup|Power Management Infrastructure Cleanup]] * I think we've done all we can on this one * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Computer_Janitor_UI_Improvements|Computer Janitor UI Improvements]] * '''UI Freeze tomorrow''' * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Ubiquity_Slideshow|Ubiquity Slideshow]] * Thinking this is '''done''' * Alpha 6 ''Foundationy'' Bugs * Bug:353534: dapper->hardy->intrepid upgrade path leaves user with unmaintained kernel * Bug:386789: 'grub2' does not carry over correct 'timeout' time from 'grub' * Bug:422101: initramfs-tools package seems to fail postinstall on armel * Bug:407428: worker signal mask inherited by children * Sponsorship queue * Good news * AOB == Activity reports == === Colin Watson === * GRUB 2: * Some work on the rather out-of-date manual. * Updated and improved Vladimir Serbinenko's savedefault patch (uploaded to Ubuntu, will be integrated upstream after 1.97). * Fixed grub2 #423412 (core.img with mdraid & lvm too big to embed). * Disabled extraneous boot messages. * Helped to track down wubi #423381 (syntax error with grub2). * Fixed memtest86+ #424506 (memtest grub entry does not run on 32-bit). * Fixed partman-partitioning/partman-auto #417724 (create BIOS Boot Partition on GPT). Added corresponding ubiquity support. * Merged 1.97~beta2 from Debian. * Started work on adding multiple input terminal support (i.e. wait for a keypress to arrive on either serial console or keyboard, then use that terminal). * Started work on long command line support. * Eucalyptus: * Fixed eucalyptus #423424 (Generated node preseed file has commented out answers). * Implemented euca_conf --discover-nodes (lp:~cjwatson/eucalyptus/discover-nodes). * Installer: * Committed a variant of Evan's patch for partman-partitioning #34974 ("Too large size" message a little terse) to Debian. * Sponsorship: * sgt-puzzles #417682 (universe). * Fixed wicd #366119 (use pm-utils when suspending/hibernating). * Improved os-prober to use a private mount namespace and to use blkid output rather than trying all filesystems in turn. * Fixed busybox #268306 ("more" useless, scrolls by without stopping). * Fixed busybox #424731 (du is missing from initrd). * Fixed casper #406188 (sed: invalid option -- '1'). * Merged several contributed casper patches (#424464, #424742, #425159). * Synced: os-prober === Evan Dandrea === * Short week, vacation on September 4th. * Started looking into fixing 315644 for OEMs. * Investigated 408292, which now looks like a GNOME issue. Will follow up with the desktop team. * Filed an RT for access to cranberry in support of LP 419194 (install failure survey) and started looking into django for the supporting code. * Lots of fixes to usb-creator. Added back partition table block devices in the UI. Fixed ISO image support in the devicekit backend. Brought back code to write syslinux to the MBR that was lost in the merge of the devicekit branch. * Worked on PolicyKit support for usb-creator. I think I'm going to keep this in a separate branch and merge after 9.10, to allow adequate testing. * Merged and further tested Michael Terry's ubiquity plugins branch. * Ubiquity bug triage and fixing. === James Westby === ==== Distributed Development ==== * Merge some more fixes from Muharem. Thanks. * Fixed some failures to import. ==== Daily builds ==== * Some discussion on the mailing list. * Tried to start a discussion about taking part of the version number from the tree, but no input yet. ==== Kerneloops ==== * Nothing this week. ==== Distro Tasks ==== * Archive admin duties * Sponsoring. * A bunch of fixes for issues, some cleaning up after myself. === Lars Wirzenius === * Gave a UDW session Getting Things Done. * Bug fixing of Computer Janitor, just in time for the UI freeze. * Filed and debugged a bit on #426159 (user can't log in via gdm, since compiz crashes X; this happens too fast for me to realize that it's an X crash). === Matthias Klose === === Michael Vogt === ==== software-store ==== * Work on the app-center webkit branch * fix alignment * fix problem with i18n * port the appdetailsview fully to webkit * Make the wkwidget class more flexible/readable when it comes to the substitution of vars in the html data * App-center: merge software-store webkit branch, fix setup.py * More layout fixes in app-center * Add menu shortcuts to the software-store app * fix installed overlay icon * App-center work (merge rugby branch, fix spinning animation) * Fix crash in sofware-store search * work: workaround missing xpm renderr in webkit * fix loading of custom icons in the appdetailsview * scale default icon size * add dbus controller to software-store * use ellipsize_midle * cleanup appview widget (proper signal support), * update update-software-store to support genericname and pkg.summary as fallbacks * work on implementing the appdetails view (as speced ~last week) and running into issues with the TreeView that seem to require a custom cell renderer * work on custom-cell renderer for arrow button * add custom cell renderer for overlay icon * add stub help to software-store * Review/merge software-store changes from rugby471 * add GtkbuilderWidget, add InstalledPane composited widget * add "view-changed" signal to ViewSwitcher class * port software store to multi-view UI (the spec was unclear about this before and it required quite a few code changes) * add availablepane and and installedpane * merge changes into trunk/ * make supported-only, all toggle items in the menu work with multi-view * make menu item search work with multiview ==== update-manager ==== * Merge update-manager POTFILE.in fix (#420209) * Fix duplicated id in u-m (#422665) * Fix crash when lsmod is not installed * New updat-emanager upload * Debug hang in update-manager, apply (possible) fix * Debug/fix loop in update-manager on package failure (text frontend) * Debugging hang in the release-upgrader on failure with the gtk frontend (took a while until it got found) * Make the python-apt code more robust about incorrect results from waitChild() * Fix hang in update-manager (nasty bug that took ages to find) and python-apt * Fix hang in the KDE release upgrade, upload new version * Update-manager: look at perl upgrade problem (#387112) ==== compiz ==== * Update compiz, plugins-main, plugins-extra from current git to PPA * Merge compiz, plugins-main sponsoring request (#414170) and upload to PPA ==== misc ==== * Debug upgrade problem with asac (turns out to be #423127 - bug in paprefs) * Work on apturl bug (#422825) * Debug command-not-found failure (#420161) - turns out to be new behaviour in bash * Fix ftbfs in xapian-core (#422493) * Upload apturl with workaround for #422825 * Review/commit language-selector change from arne (with comments) * Update app-install-data for alpha5 * Add bzr.desktop metapkg to app-install-data * Fix incorrect battery-stats desktop file * Upload new python-apt * Upload new gdebi * Fix segfault in synaptic, merge fixes from the synaptic--main branch, upload new version * Debug/fix crash in g-a-i when using a specific activation style * Uploaded zlib with fix for #402178) * Build list of differences between app-store spec <-> implementation for relelase meeting * Synaptic i18n work (sv translation mail) * remove duplicated entries from the app-install-data * Look at build failure caused by zlib (in vips), create proposed patch, ask for review by cjwatson and redo it properly (many thanks) * Forward zlib patch to upstream ==== sponsoring ==== * Review/sponsor tomboy * Review/sponsor aptitude man-page fix === Mike Terry === ==== MIR ==== * Did my first MIR! A baby one for dh-di (#425615). ==== Rsyslog ==== * Am still stymied by Kees's rsyslog hang bug. ==== Ubiquity ==== * Plugin branch got merged thanks to Evan's championing. === Muharem Hrnjadovic === === Scott James Remnant === ==== sysvinit ==== * Merged against Debian, a lot of our changes got merged in so the diff is increasingly smaller (yay) * Disabled insserv migration since that doesn't actually work with Ubuntu right now (a few problems block it), and the Debian package is far too picky and debconf-happy (debconf notice if you so much as have removed-but-not-purged packages on your system). insserv dep is still there, you just need to do: USEINSSERV=y dpkg-reconfigure sysv-rc to attempt the migration * Uploaded to _my_ PPA ==== Boot Performance ==== * Still working through bugs in mountall; have tested arbitrarily complex combinations of filesystems and now they all work. * Various minor tweaks to dh_installinit: Upstart's "start", "stop" and "restart" don't behave quite like init scripts when it comes to exit codes; "start" considers it an error if the job is already running while "stop" and "restart" consider it an error if the job is not running. * Minor tweaks to startup jobs to actually include "on startup", so restarting udev doesn't re-run udevtrigger and restarting rsyslog doesn't overwrite /var/log/dmesg * Adjusted sreadahead to start on startup, rather than on sysvinit compat startup * Stripped most of the boot-related initscripts from that package (based off the merged version) * Deferred rcS until after the Upstart native boot is complete * initramfs-tools modified to allow hooks and scripts to be optional based on a variable set in initramfs.conf or conf.d/* * Made framebuffer/kernelextras optional on USPLASH=y * Made usplash itself optional on USPLASH=y * Uploaded Upstart job for gdm to staging PPA === Steve Langasek === From scott at open-vote.org Wed Sep 16 02:07:46 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:07:46 -0700 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090911062816.GB14802@dario.dodds.net> References: <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <1251820167.9513.14.camel@vish-laptop> <1251825306.12132.30.camel@dylan-laptop> <4AA917E4.2070501@canonical.com> <20090911062816.GB14802@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <4AB03A62.2040008@open-vote.org> Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 04:14:44PM +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: >> It would be cool if Debian and Ubuntu packagers could work together to >> address this in the Packages.gz format. > > I think this is unlikely to wind up in the Packages file in Debian over > concerns about increasing the size of this index for all users with > information not used by the package manager per se. But I agree it would be > nice to make this information available to the software store, perhaps via > an adjunct metadata file on the servers. > And that metadata file can then be generated automatically using the machine-readable debian/copyright file spec we discussed last UDS. Thanks, Scott Ritchie From smoser at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 15 19:29:58 2009 From: smoser at ubuntu.com (Scott Moser) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [launchpad-net] RFC: EC2 / UEC Image updates In-Reply-To: <4AA9A062.1090205@thinksome.com> References: <4AA9A062.1090205@thinksome.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009, Eric Hammond wrote: > Scott Moser wrote: > > This will apply to Karmic (9.10) and following releases. Additionally, it > > will apply to Hardy (8.04). Our priority right now for ec2 images is Karmic/9.10. We want to make Karmic as solid as possible. The next priority is the LTS release Hardy/8.04. I hope to release updated versions of Hardy sometime soon, hopefully the end of the week I can publish something for testing. After that, I consider Intrepid and then Jaunty. The reason for Intrepid being favored over Jaunty is that we've got a more stable kernel for Intrepid. Getting stable kernels has been the most difficult part of producing content for ec2. The Jaunty kernel right now has issues in some zones (bug 398568). The Intrepid kernel also has issues (bug 415032), but they're less severe (no console output). Do you think that servicing Jaunty is useful without addressing 398568 ? I don't see a lot of value in refreshing the user space image, and leaving the kernel unstable, and don't know that we have the resources right now to dedicate towards getting the kernel stable. It may be an option to pursue using the karmic kernel with jaunty and intrepid userspace, and servicing them that way. The one issue I see with that is in making modules available (bug 429169) to them. I've not tested whether or not karmic kernel packages will install in jaunty or intrepid userspace without issues. If not, its not a huge issue, but would require some solution. So, thats where we are. 6 weeks away from producing what we hope is a useful, current, and serviceable ec2 image in 9.10 release. From jesse.barnes at intel.com Wed Sep 16 00:10:45 2009 From: jesse.barnes at intel.com (Jesse Barnes) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:10:45 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:23:01 -0700 Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 10:16:28PM -0700, Bryce Harrington wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 08:12:09AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > > > > * Documenting all of the above so that it can be easily > > > > > executed by reasonably technical users > > > > There are some reset patches available, but they don't seem to > > > work in all cases. It would be good to know if they were useful > > > for any of your reported hangs... It might be that they're > > > better than nothing and we should push them upstream now. > > > Unfortunately the freeze bugs I've seen reported recently appear to > > be difficult for the reporters to reproduce at will (e.g. occur > > only after a few days). But it definitely sounds like something > > worth pulling in for Karmic+1. > > Why would we not want to pull these for karmic? Is there a > significant risk of regressions with these patches? > > If the only problem is that they don't always work, that's still > better than where we are now, surely. FYI, Ben Gamari posted an updated version of the reset patchset. It seems to work reliably now, so you might want to pick it up at some point. It generates uevents when a reset happens, so you can further track GPU hangs and bugs. -- Jesse Barnes, Intel Open Source Technology Center From thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 16 09:47:57 2009 From: thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:47:57 +0200 Subject: Server Team 20090915 meeting minutes Message-ID: <4AB0A63D.5010805@ubuntu.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online with the irc logs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090915. ==== Review ACTION points from previous meeting ==== * smoser to tag existing UEC image bugs with "uec-images": Done * soren to ensure that smoser can update the UEC publishing scripts: Done * smoser to add MD5SUMs for UEC images: Done * soren to add manifest files for UEC images: Code landed in VMBuilder, will be added to build system today ACTION: soren to add manifest files to UEC images build system for alpha6 * smoser to open dialog with IS about automated publishing to EC2 and agree on a plan: Done, ticket 35660 * soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query: Blocked on automated publishing On that subject, nijaba mentioned it would probably be good to have a human-readable equivalent page updated at the same time. This should be discussed on ML and/or as a future meeting egenda item. * soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place: soren needs to get back to slangasek on that. * smoser to add ec2-images tag to the relevant bugs: Done * nijaba to fold #ubuntu-ec2 and #ubuntu-cloud into #ubuntu-server: Done * soren to triage all eucalyptus bugs, and use the 'eucalyptus' tag for bugs which should be escalated to the eucalyptus team: Was done, but now needs a refresh * kirkland to build a proof of concept alfresco appliance: This was retargeted, see below. * mathiaz to get niemeyer's proxy code packaged: Done, MIR ready. * zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted: Still waiting on MIR team, zul will ping them again today. * mathiaz to upload openldap 2.4.18: Done * kirkland to speak with marjo about how to get qemu-kvm tested prior to release (and more generally server applications like it): Done, will hold a bugday in 2 weeks * mathiaz to get a server dev team set up in LP and work with TB to get it set up for archive reorg: This is believed not to be needed for now. However mathiaz will have a look at the package sets again. * ttx to update server team Roadmap to reflect current projects: Done * Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6: Done On that subject, Daviey mentioned the opportunity to update to RC1 (we are using 1.6beta4 now and are expected to move to 1.6 release in the end). ttx advised to release early and often, especially since RC1 is a bugfix-only update from beta4. ACTION: Daviey to update Asterisk 1.6 to RC1 For reference, here is the list of ACTIONs from last meeting still in progress: ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted ==== Alpha6 remaining actions ==== The alpha6-milestoned buglist[1] is empty of server-related items, so the question was up if any alpha6 targets were missing from the list. Bug 413789 was mentioned, but retargeted to 9.10-beta, pending help from mvo on resolution. Some release process improvements were also targeted for alpha6, here is the status on them: * Add signed MD5SUMS (slangasek): slangasek has now access to nectarine and proceeded on adding that. * Add manifest file for each image (soren): 87% done, see ACTION above * Automate publishing of AMIs to EC2 (smoser): Deferred to beta release * Automate updating ec2-version-query (soren): Blocked on automatic publication, so deferred * Publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place (soren): needs more discussion with slangasek * Ensure inclusion of relevant news in release notes (erichammond): Blocked on manifest generation [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone=12714 ==== Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs ==== * UEC image bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images * EC2 image bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images smoser compiled a detailed status at http://paste.ubuntu.com/271503/. ttx asked about bug 420581 which is targeted for alpha6: it needs soren to pull the patch, review it, sponsor it, and then update his vmbuilder on nectarine, which should be completed for today. ACTION: soren to sponsor the patch for bug 420581 and update his vmbuilder on nectarine smoser reported last week release of ami-a40fefcd and ami-3fb25256 to ubuntu-ec2, ubuntu-cloud last week. This is the first image we've published with karmic kernel by default. We've got fairly good feedback, the only real issue raised is on bug 428692. smoser is also working with jono, jorge and ara to get a community test plan together. ttx asked about bug 418130, which should be targeted for alpha6 since we are to release it with a Karmic kernel, and smoser retargeted it. erichammond asked whether kernel modules and a "loop" fix were going into Alpha6. smoser answered that those are 9.10-beta targets, though the kernel modules fix might make it into alpha6. ==== Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6 ==== * Eucalyptus integration bugs list at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus As already mentioned, the list needs a refresh. No other comments from the crowd. ==== Roadmap review: Virtual appliance ==== niemeyer was not present to the meeting, but the image-store-proxy is currently blocked on the image-store-proxy MIR. During the ACTION review, kirkland mentioned a change in reference appliance. Alfresco was abandoned due to its dependency on sun-jdk, partner-only packaging and lack of community testing. The current target is Moodle, which is in main, all open source and has a nice first-time setup via a web front end. A proof of concept image was produced at http://rookery.canonical.com/~kirkland/ubuntu-9.04-moodle.qcow2.bz2 (260Mb). One remaining issue is the need to dpkg-reconfigure on first login, forcing the user to make a few selections. Most of them can have sane defaults, but FQDN probably can't. Various possible workarounds were suggested, but none of them stood out as appropriate. This should be further discussed off-meeting. ACTION: kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance The appliance as generated now cannot be run in UEC (qcow2 format), nor would it be able to show up in the Eucalyptus Image Store. ACTION: kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation ACTION: kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about ImageStore integration testing ==== Roadmap review: Other specs ==== On the Cluster stack front, ivoks reported everything for pacemaker as done and in karmic, ready for shipping. On the other hand, RHCS needs one more update (bug 429834). Looking at the extent of the update, this certainly requires a FeatureFreeze exception. ACTION: ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update With upload of OpenLDAP 2.4.18, the directory-enabled-user-login spec is feature-complete. It now needs testing. ==== Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs ==== The buglist at http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html doesn't show any bug ''needing'' to be reassigned. ttx wanted some feedback on proposed solution for bug 425928, and got a general agreement on that. ==== Weekly SRU review ==== The proposed bugs lists were reviewed and appropriate nominations were accepted. The list of accepted bugs with an assignee[2] was also reviewed and updated. [2] http://people.canonical.com/~mathiaz/buglists/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html ==== Agree on next meeting date and time ==== Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September 22nd at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. - -- Thierry Carrez Ubuntu server team -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqwpj0ACgkQvcL1obalX08P0ACgjz9PZ0lsVnpcl9NN2pz9q825 QnQAn23owQ78lH/mBI7OV02z7BjvCZQx =+qZC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From john.johansen at canonical.com Wed Sep 16 10:44:54 2009 From: john.johansen at canonical.com (John Johansen) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:44:54 -0700 Subject: [launchpad-net] RFC: EC2 / UEC Image updates In-Reply-To: References: <4AA9A062.1090205@thinksome.com> Message-ID: <4AB0B396.7000006@canonical.com> Scott Moser wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2009, Eric Hammond wrote: > >> Scott Moser wrote: > The Jaunty kernel right now has issues in some zones (bug 398568). The > Intrepid kernel also has issues (bug 415032), but they're less severe (no > console output). > > Do you think that servicing Jaunty is useful without addressing 398568 ? > I don't see a lot of value in refreshing the user space image, and leaving > the kernel unstable, and don't know that we have the resources right now > to dedicate towards getting the kernel stable. > We do have a xenified Jaunty kernel that in very limited testing addresses 398568. So that is a possible route, of course it has not been widely tested and needs more work put into it if we were to go that route. > It may be an option to pursue using the karmic kernel with jaunty and > intrepid userspace, and servicing them that way. The one issue I see with > that is in making modules available (bug 429169) to them. I've not tested > whether or not karmic kernel packages will install in jaunty or intrepid > userspace without issues. If not, its not a huge issue, but would require > some solution. > This is possible and works quite well, but I can't guarantee that there won't be some issues. john From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 17 11:23:08 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:23:08 +0200 Subject: Find the right package Message-ID: <1253182988.5707.16.camel@bert> Hello everybody, Brian announced the "file bug" experiment yesterday[1] and I had a look at the Reporting Bugs page [2] that bug reporters will be redirected to. In order to make it easier for users, I'd appreciate if you could have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage and see if the packages that you care about are mentioned there, if they are not obvious to find out about. Thanks a lot in advance. Have a great day, Daniel [1] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1908 [2] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 21 15:17:01 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:17:01 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help Message-ID: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> Hello everybody, a few days ago I had a chat with Celso Providelo from the Launchpad Soyuz team who is getting requests for help with packaging every now and then. While the Soyuz team links to Ubuntu Packaging information already ([1], [2]), they still get requests for help and are in no really good position to advise on some topics. As everything that lands in PPAs benefits Ubuntu and might land in Ubuntu eventually, I think it'd be great if we could find out how we can help there. Some Upstream developers are already packaging new upstream releases for testing, etc. so it'd be fantastic if we could find a way to get in touch and help them understand how Ubuntu development processes work and get them involved more directly. I see this as a huge opportunity and would appreciate your thoughts on how we can make this happen in a pain-free manner. [1] https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging [2] https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage Have a great day, Daniel PS: When you reply, please keep Celso CCed. From ubuntu at kitterman.com Mon Sep 21 16:43:46 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:46 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> Message-ID: <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:17:01 +0200 Daniel Holbach wrote: >Hello everybody, > >a few days ago I had a chat with Celso Providelo from the Launchpad >Soyuz team who is getting requests for help with packaging every now and >then. While the Soyuz team links to Ubuntu Packaging information already >([1], [2]), they still get requests for help and are in no really good >position to advise on some topics. > >As everything that lands in PPAs benefits Ubuntu and might land in >Ubuntu eventually, I think it'd be great if we could find out how we can >help there. Some Upstream developers are already packaging new upstream >releases for testing, etc. so it'd be fantastic if we could find a way >to get in touch and help them understand how Ubuntu development >processes work and get them involved more directly. > >I see this as a huge opportunity and would appreciate your thoughts on >how we can make this happen in a pain-free manner. > >[1] https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging >[2] https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage > >Have a great day, > Daniel > >PS: When you reply, please keep Celso CCed. I see the sense of the theory, but PPAs are built on Ubuntu, not part of Ubuntu. Much as development on Ubuntu is offtopic in #ubuntu-devel, I don't think this is something we have the resources to take on. When I look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/ I have no doubt that we have not nearly the developer resources to adequately work with people actively working to get software into Ubuntu. When I look at http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html it is very clear that we have severe problems with our existing packages that are not being addressed due to lack of developers to do/sponsor the work. I'm sure I don't need to review the sponship queues for you. Ultimately, PPAs are a Launchpad product, not Ubuntu. I think they are a very useful tool and am glad to have them, but there is no way we can support helping out everyone who tries to use them. Scott K P.S. This won't be a suprise for Celso, we've had this conversation before. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 21 17:49:24 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:49:24 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> Message-ID: <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> Thanks for your feedback. Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 11:43 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman: > I see the sense of the theory, but PPAs are built on Ubuntu, not part of > Ubuntu. Much as development on Ubuntu is offtopic in #ubuntu-devel, I > don't think this is something we have the resources to take on. As I see it people who make use of PPAs and who want to know more about packaging and how to do it properly express a high interest in Ubuntu. I could imagine that a lot of people are under the impression that it's very hard to get something into Ubuntu and I'm sure they just need a gentle nudge to see that it's not as hard and that once you know the right places you find all the information you need. > When I look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/ I have no doubt that we have not > nearly the developer resources to adequately work with people actively > working to get software into Ubuntu. When I look at > http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html > it is very clear that we have severe problems with our existing packages > that are not being addressed due to lack of developers to do/sponsor the > work. I'm sure I don't need to review the sponship queues for you. I wasn't suggesting that we bring packages from PPAs into a tip-top shape for somebody else instead of what we have on our plates already and not suggesting that we actively search for PPAs that contain good stuff we'd like to ship. Instead I'm trying to find a way to help newcomers that need more information and just a bit of help until they become Ubuntu developers themselves eventually. It's about finding a way for us to easily give people what they need and also to set the right expectations. There must be a middle ground for making this work and a way to reach out to people who want to make Ubuntu work better. I see this as a huge potential and the interest in PPAs shows that people want better and more software in Ubuntu and they want to help out to make it so. > Ultimately, PPAs are a Launchpad product, not Ubuntu. I think they are a > very useful tool and am glad to have them, but there is no way we can > support helping out everyone who tries to use them. I personally don't think that the distinction doesn't explain much or help much. That people are actively trying to do something for Ubuntu in my eyes is the more important point. That they're not knowing how to "do it right" or "get it in" is much more the problem we're having and that we should at least attempt to fix. Any other ideas? Have a great day, Daniel From mathieu.tl at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 18:30:21 2009 From: mathieu.tl at gmail.com (Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:30:21 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> Message-ID: <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Daniel Holbach > > Any other ideas? > Being part of these "people who use PPAs and express a great deal of interest in Ubuntu", I find that it is indeed not so hard, once you know the right places to look for information. Finding that information can sometimes be hard though. Or it's just a number of little commands that one needs to remember to type before publishing a package. That said, I know it's more something for the Launchpad mailing lists, but I find that perhaps providing an interface through Launchpad, where you can see the lintian warnings/errors for a package in a PPA could be an interesting way of helping out getting people to know how to improve their packaging work. Though I might be mistaken, I don't think it would be so hard to implement. Providing a simple message and link to more information on how to fix those would be a matter of having a link to the right wiki page. Additionally, perhaps providing some quick way of uploading packages from a PPA to REVU, or simply making REVU use a source package's files from a PPA? I can see how someone might be packaging some shiny new program, pushing it to a PPA, and then being advised that it would be something useful to have included in the distribution. / Matt From robbie at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 21 19:23:29 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:23:29 -0500 Subject: Security Team Weekly Summary, 2009-09-21 Message-ID: <4AB7C4A1.7040500@ubuntu.com> = Jamie Strandboge = Role: triager == Issue Tracking == * bug triage * CVE triage * UCT * better handle partial EOL releases (ie Dapper) * update mass-cve-edit to deal with multiple packages and releases triage old CVEs and bring karmic back into reality check-cves == Updates == * kdelibs: * analyze, patch, build, test, publish (USN-833-1) * [karmic]: apply patches from USN-822-1 and USN-833-1, fix FTBFS * kde4libs * analyze, patch, build, test, publish (USN-833-1) * [karmic]: apply patches from USN-833-1 * openoffice.org update * analyze, start patching * rebuild schroots to handle OO.o on Intrepid and higher * coordinate postgresql update * postfix update: analyze and coordinate CVE-2009-2939 (low impact, will process as SRU) == Technology Development == * follow up on LP: #418197 (Ext4 Jaunty SRU tracking bug) * test LP: #400682 ([Karmic stac9227 regression] No sound after upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic): still broken * AppArmor * fix LP: #429061 (allow gnash in firefox profile) * fix LP: #428071 (allow access to plugins directory in firefox profile) add email abstractions for email clients * discuss LP: #429872 (/sbin/apparmor_parser: ... Profile doesn't conform to protocol) with jj, kees and mdeslaur * libvirt * workaround bug #431090 (libvirt apparmor profile is preventing libvirt from running eucalyptus VMs) * struggle with attach-disk (discovered it is broken on Karmic kvm, see LP: #432154) * start developing fix for LP: #432581 (libvirt/apparmor breaks non-default serial, console, kernel and initrd). This is the proper fix for LP #431090 and requires virt-aa-helper to be updated to read XML instead of a bunch of command line arguments. This fix is also required for upstream acceptance and will fix LP: #432810 in the process * become mildly proficient with upstart * ufw * fix LP: #430053 (ufw does not error out when filesystem is read-only) * fix LP: #431804 (ufw starts after some network daemons due to move to upstart in Ubuntu). This provides a small window where network daemons are running without a firewall. This constitutes a security risk (although small) for people who enable the firewall and expect its protection (eg in hostile wireless networks). Fixed by creating an upstart job for ufw. * update packaging to use upstart in Ubuntu and sysv in Debian * miscellaneous cleanups to make sure that ufw starts before networking for upstart, and before listening services for sysv * update documentation to include upstart * fix LP: #424528 (ufw crashed with ValueError in under_ssh()) by simply not reloading instead of tracing back * prepare and release 0.29-3 and 0.29-4 == Community == * security team meeting == Archive == * proces sync requests * process NEW = Kees Cook = Weekly Role: community == Updates == * hunt/patch/build/test neon updates == Technology Integration == * bisecting RH gdb patch sets to find minimum patch series for PIE support. == Auditing == * verified test-{gcc,glibc,kernel}-security regression tests on all releases. * scanned old apport-crashes to add SegvAnalysis to, added to 2000 bugs. == Community == * uploaded SELinux fixes from ccase (LP: #428007, #371075, #418026, #428043). * reviewed nginx patches * security team weekly meeting * reviewed/uploaded ufw to Debian for jdstrand. * reviewed/responded to community patch suggestions. = Marc Deslauriers Weekly role: happy place == Updates == * Worked on, tested and released USN-830-1: OpenSSL vulnerability * Worked on, tested and released USN-831-1: OpenEXR vulnerabilities * Worked on, tested and released USN-832-1: FreeRADIUS vulnerability * Researched and worked on webkit CVEs * Researched and worked on qt4-x11 CVEs == Technology development == * Filed Soyuz bug "PPA page's "view package details" link is in a bad place" (LP: #429551) * Filed Evolution bug "contacts displayed twice in new email contact list" (LP: #428917) * Filed libwnck bug "window list doesn't show proper window title" (LP: #429715) * ubuntu-security-tools: - added --lpnet to copy_sppa_to_repos * qa-regression-testing: - Added to test-openexr.py testing script - Wrote test-freeradius.py * Added aide info to server marketing wiki page * Created and uploaded disabled apache2 apparmor profile into Karmic * Filed tomboy bug "tomboy search no longer works" (LP: #430050) * Filed freeradius bug "freeradius config needs freeradius-mysql" (LP: #430730) * Filed freeradius bug "radclient doesn't work" (LP: #430732) * Worked on and fixed apparmor bug "aa-logprof doesn't handle "open" log entries" (LP: #427966) * Worked on and fixed apparmor bug "libapparmor doesn't parse ouid" (LP: #431929) * Opened evolution bug "contacts displayed twice in new email contact list" (LP: #428917) From laserjock at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 21 19:30:25 2009 From: laserjock at ubuntu.com (Jordan Mantha) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:30:25 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> Message-ID: <8d41218e0909211130n543085aej1e41dc890b23e72e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Thanks for your feedback. > > Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 11:43 -0400 schrieb Scott Kitterman: >> When I look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.org/ I have no doubt that we have not >> nearly the developer resources to adequately work with people actively >> working to get software into Ubuntu. ?When I look at >> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html >> it is very clear that we have severe problems with our existing packages >> that are not being addressed due to lack of developers to do/sponsor the >> work. ?I'm sure I don't need to review the sponship queues for you. > > I wasn't suggesting that we bring packages from PPAs into a tip-top > shape for somebody else instead of what we have on our plates already > and not suggesting that we actively search for PPAs that contain good > stuff we'd like to ship. I'm not sure there's much of a distinction in terms of work and resources between doing packages reviews on REVU and in PPAs, bottom line, stuff has to get looked at and the good stuff sponsored. The temptation will of course be to work with somebody with an almost-there PPA to get it in "tip-top" shape. That gets us to PPAs being yet another resource drain. I'm not necessarily saying there aren't nuggets in PPAs, undoubtedly there are, but I think there isn't going to be much difference between REVU and PPAs in terms of work. > Instead I'm trying to find a way to help newcomers that need more > information and just a bit of help until they become Ubuntu developers > themselves eventually. It's about finding a way for us to easily give > people what they need and also to set the right expectations. There must > be a middle ground for making this work and a way to reach out to people > who want to make Ubuntu work better. Do you have any sense of how many of these people *want* to become Ubuntu developers. My experience is that many of these PPAs are upstreams/hobbyists who have no intention of becoming Ubuntu developers. Indeed, many people use PPAs *because* REVU, sponsorship, SRUs, etc. are seen as overly difficult and bureaucratic to be involved in. > I see this as a huge potential and the interest in PPAs shows that > people want better and more software in Ubuntu and they want to help out > to make it so. Again, I would say that most of them want to make *their* software better, not necessarily Ubuntu. If we can change that I'd be quite excited, but that's sort of how I see the PPAs being used these days. >> Ultimately, PPAs are a Launchpad product, not Ubuntu. ?I think they are a >> very useful tool and am glad to have them, but there is no way we can >> support helping out everyone who tries to use them. > > I personally don't think that the distinction doesn't explain much or > help much. That people are actively trying to do something for Ubuntu in > my eyes is the more important point. That they're not knowing how to "do > it right" or "get it in" is much more the problem we're having and that > we should at least attempt to fix. I think what Scott's trying to say is that for a great many of the PPA users, they are trying to work on top of Ubuntu, not for Ubuntu. For instance, they may be upstream developers who want to deliver latest releases without going through the SRU process, or depend on modified packages. Some are just people testing latest crack without regard to the kinds of QA we do in Ubuntu. Some want to be able to push out their latest cool app in alpha/beta stage and don't want to wait for outdated packages to get through REVU or wait 6 months for it to get released to the general public. PPAs are a very cool resource, but I tend to think that they aren't necessarily a great recruitment tool. In terms of the actual question, "what does Launchpad do with PPA support questions?", I think perhaps a bit more user-friendly documentation going over errors people are likely to see and mistakes they are likely to make would help a lot. Versioning, .orig.tar.gz, and dput seem to be the common problems. I think people don't know what to expect from PPAs so managing expectations would be useful. The Packaging Guide wiki also has a pretty extensive set of documentation for the actual packaging. -Jordan From robbie at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 22 01:33:25 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:33:25 -0700 Subject: Foundations Weekly Status Report, 2009-09-16 Message-ID: <4AB81B55.2050201@ubuntu.com> == Present == * RobbieWilliamson - chair * ColinWatson * EvanDandrea * JamesWestby * LarsWirzenius * MatthiasKlose * MichaelVogt * MikeTerry * MuharemHrnjadovic * ScottJamesRemnant * SteveLangasek == Apologies == == Agenda == * Status Updates on [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic|Karmic]] * Alpha 6 Deliverables * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#AppCenter_1.0|Ubuntu Software Store]] * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Computer_Janitor_UI_Improvements|Computer Janitor UI Improvements]] * [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic#Ubiquity_Slideshow|Ubiquity Slideshow]] * Alpha 6 ''Foundationy'' Bugs * Bug:427709: [MIR] insserv * Bug:430611: dbus fails to start on clean boot using upstart job * Bug:430496: mountall blocks boot before cryptsetup is started * Good news * AOB == Actions from this meeting == == Activity reports == === Colin Watson === * Merged: partman-auto, partman-partitioning, grub2 * GRUB 2: * Tidied up some more boot-time output. * Worked on blockers for using the loopback command in Wubi. I think I've fixed enough of this that we should be able to get rid of the grotty /boot bind-mount soon. * Fixed partman-auto-loop #428407 (no need for fstab.d/hostboot any more). * Eucalyptus: * Merged discover-nodes branch. * Some work on automatic component registration. * Fixed eucalyptus #424541 (when installing a node controller, a bridge device should be created). * First pass at eucalyptus #425922 (Eucalyptus component registration process is manual). * Fixed various other installation/init glitches. * Miscellaneous lsb update, fixing #403316 and #418461. * Sponsorship: * bash-completion #415271. * binfmt-support #320822 (sort of; merged upstream). * Fixed initramfs-tools #428282 (no longer saves the keyboard map to initrd). * Spent nearly all of Tuesday afternoon/evening driving buildds and publisher by hand to help repair boot breakage in Karmic. * Backport of dpkg change to dapper to permit upstream versions ending in ~, to unstick powerpc. === Evan Dandrea === * Lots of bug triage and fixing. Got a good handle on the usb-creator bugs, and I am working through the usual mountain of ubiquity bugs. * Fixed a number of bugs in usb-creator, and fixed a number of regressions from the 9.04 version that occurred with the devicekit backend / cleanup branch merge. * Nearly finished PolicyKit support for usb-creator. * Released a new version of the ubiquity slideshow. * Followed up with Roman on his proposed merge of the kubuntu slideshow branch and the separation of some kubuntu ubiquity artwork into a new package. * Spent a fair amount of time tracking down and fixing two bugs in DeviceKit-disks that are preventing formatting from working in usb-creator (and gnome-disk-utility). LP 419796 and LP 432549. Fixed one and made good progress on the other. === James Westby === ==== Distributed Development ==== * Merged a couple of fixes from Muharem. * Fixed some more importer failures. * Worked on the documentation. ==== Daily Builds ==== * Reviewed a change from Javier to stop putting my email in the changelogs of every upload. ==== Kerneloops ==== * Nothing. ==== Other ==== * Archive admin rotation. * Sponsoring/review from proposed Bazaar branches. * A bit of bug triage/debugging. === Lars Wirzenius === * Computer Janitor thread/gtk fixups. Hopefully fixed all problems by making sure no background threads ever touch GTK. Packages in my PPA for testing, going to ask for them to be uploaded to the real archive soon. === Matthias Klose === * OEM Rotation * Track down crashes with new glibc and closed nvidia drivers, revert a Debian patch. * gdb update to the 7.0 branch. * OpenJDK update to the IcedTea 1.6.1 release. * Work on getting libstdc++5 out of karmic * Rebuild packages to get libreadline5 off the CDs. * Bug triage * OOo test builds on armel. * Last remaining modular zope packages in karmic now. * Prepare gcc-4.3 update for karmic/armel * Finalize & test patch for PR target/40134 for upstream. * Look at python2.5 build failure and fix dpkg. * Prepare gcc-4.4 and eglibc packages with neon optimizations for armel. === Michael Vogt === ==== software-store ==== * ensure status bar updates, center text * make software-sources menu work * queue reload if needed * updated po-files from rosetta * make sure the menu items for install/remove are in sync and working with the selected app * make copy/copy web link work * implement the "copy weblink" as written in the spec * fix search in category view * Look at pathbar code from nzmm * bug triage/fixing * Phonecall with mpt about app-center status * App-center fix margins (#426741) * Debug incorrect margins with webkit and attach test-case * App-center: work on the UI so that it matches exactly the spec * remove "search in" button and instead implement conditional behaviour based on where the search got started (as mpt wants it) * make the progress view less cramped * App-center work (icon sizes, css improvements) * code cleanup * add base-class for the AvailablePane, InstalledPane * add decorator for wait_for_apt_cache * refresh app list on cache change (keep position in app list when this happens) * fix icon size * desktop file location adjustments * sort in locale friendly way, add missing setlocale * talk to nzmm aobut the PathBar code and put it into a branch, get contributor agreement, etc (lp:~mvo/software-store/pathbar, lp:~nzmm/software-store/pathbar) * Merge software-store fixes from rugby471 * fix hang if cancel is clicked on aptdaemon dialog * merging from rugby471 * add big screenshot show capability * action-button enable/disable on cancel added * move the code for the screenshot display into its own widget * merge xml fixes from mdke * implement undo/redo in the search widget * fix another crash * add basic architecture display handling * Add maintaince end time calculation ==== alpha6 ==== * review/updated app-install-data * review/updated command-not-found data * work on apt DDTP update, waiting for rosetta on this currently ==== update-manager ==== * Work on update-manager and u-m base-installer integration * Integrate base-installer addition into the auto-upgrade tester * Upload new update-manager * Bug triage/fixing update-manager * fixed runtime warnings * fixed not-working cancel button * fixed string * fixed crash * add mock-code for testing thedownload progress * fix crash in --dist-upgrade * Work on update-manager patching capbability (#414170), talk to cjwatson for his opinion (many thanks) and implement it * fix hardy->karmic upgrades via exception for sysvutils ==== gdebi ==== * fix misisng translations problem after gtkbuilder switch (with the help of seb128) * Merge gdebi i18n fix * Gdebi bug triage/upload new version ==== misc ==== * Update-notifier work (debugging/fixing) * Synaptic i18n merge (sl.po) * Apt code review * Final compiz upload to PPA, if all is fine there, upload to karmic * Apply the fix in gdebi (for the gtkbuilder i18n problems) to update-manager as well * Upload kexec-tools to my PPA, try to debug build failure in the configure script (fail!) * upload new compiz to karmic (yeah!) ==== sponsoring ==== * Review/upload computer-janitor * Review/sponsor rhythmbox, python-gnome-desktop, gtkmm === Michael Terry === ==== Bug Work ==== * I fixed some Alpha 6 bugs that no one owned: - Various bugs with implicit pointer-to-int conversions causing problems on 64-bit systems - mk-sbuild-lv didn't respect http_proxy * Fixed 4 ubiquity crashers, mostly in the KDE frontend * Fixed some issues with the upstart conversion for rsyslog ==== MIR ==== * Reviewed my first MIRs: 425615, 427576, 428793. ==== MOTU ==== * Filed my MOTU papers === Muharem Hrnjadovic === ==== Distributed development ==== * Bugs fixed: #429890, #337209, #375897, #417153, #381303 * Ongoing work: bug #424451 and #385667 ==== Archive administration ==== Mostly sync'ed packages. === Scott James Remnant === ==== Clock issues ==== * Debugged ext3/4 filesystem issues where a forced power down with a hardware clock in localtime resulted in a fsck error on boot. This turned out to be a bug in the ext3/4 filesystem code itself, it would recover the journal while the filesystem was read-only, and update the superblock last write time to that of the system clock. Since the system clock had not been stepped yet, this would be in the future if you were east of UTC. Ted Tso (upstream) has written patches to not update the superblock write time when the filesystem is read only. * As a result, ending up thinking about the system/hardware clock again for a bit, and realised that this didn't need to be a udev event at all since it never accesses the hardware. Switching to an Upstart job greatly simplified the problem. ==== Boot performance ==== * At SteveLangasek's suggestion, inverted the logic in dh_installinit so that replacing init scripts is the default behaviour when installing Upstart jobs. Those that are new native upstart jobs that never previously existed as init scripts should use the --upstart-only option. This reduced the deltas, and in hindsight was the right default. * As a result, those packages which have an Upstart job replacing an init script depend on "upstart-job", while those packages which have a new native Upstart job depend on "upstart (>= 0.6.0)" This is correct, since the native jobs don't use the upstart-job symlink (which could conceivably be in a different package one day) * Uploaded ifupdown & netbase to emit events when network devices are up, and to bring network devices up/down using Upstart jobs rather than udev rules or init scripts * Added events to the gdm Init and PreSession scripts which may be useful for later synchronisation purposes * Fixed force-reload to use the HUP signal rather than restart, since this resulted in D-Bus restarting during upgrade and gdm/X crashing * Fixed network-manager to not start/stop with HAL, since it no longer users it (and results in NM restarting during upgrade) * Fixed mountall to not be too picky about hook failures when copying into /dev and /var/run, or cleaning /tmp * Fixed mountall to not fail if NFS devices don't mount, but to wait and try again when the next network device comes up * Broke the world a bit. Ooops. ==== Other ==== * Updated udev to GIT HEAD to bring in various bug fixes and changes that we're better off having in karmic than not - this introduces a few visible warnings, will fix these with upstream next week. === Steve Langasek === * Alpha 6 :) From ubuntu at kitterman.com Tue Sep 22 11:32:21 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 6:32:21 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <20090922075116.GA4412@linux2go.dk> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> <20090922075116.GA4412@linux2go.dk> Message-ID: <14108-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DE58D7@[70.211.152.210]> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:51:16 +0200 Soren Hansen wrote: >On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:43:46AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> I see the sense of the theory, but PPAs are built on Ubuntu, not part >> of Ubuntu. Much as development on Ubuntu is offtopic in >> #ubuntu-devel, I don't think this is something we have the resources >> to take on. > >This is not true. We've got a /lot/ of time and ressources. We just >choose to use them differently. I'm not being pedantic, I honestly >believe this difference is essential. It may be perfectly reasonable for >us to /decide/ that we don't want to shift our priorities to accomodate >this new task, but we /do/ have the power to make that decision. Saying >that we don't have the ressources skews the discussion by making us seem >helplessly determined when we're really not. That's true. I am making the assumption that developing Ubuntu is a higher priority than other things. I'm all in favor of helping with PPA packaging when it is for packages that are evntually aimed at Ubuntu or when it would help us increase our developer base. My experience though is that this seems to me to be a small fraction of the userbase of PPAs. Fundamentally, we could decide that Ubuntu is a small maintained core surrounded by a cloud of PPAs and this work is exactly what we should do doing. I think that would be an extremely poor decision. Scott K From lucien at satelcom.qc.ca Tue Sep 22 14:54:45 2009 From: lucien at satelcom.qc.ca (Lucien Lefevre) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:54:45 -0400 Subject: About ClamTK Message-ID: <1253627685.6013.12.camel@lucien-pc> I'm trying to install clamAV antivirus but GUI clamtk is outdated with the version 4.08 from synaptic (4.17 is available but not from synaptic). I know you are all extremely busy but if you could include update clamtk 4.17 in the packages, unless you suggest it's ok to install it from their site. Thank you very much Lucien From macoafi at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 15:27:50 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:27:50 -0400 Subject: About ClamTK In-Reply-To: <1253627685.6013.12.camel@lucien-pc> References: <1253627685.6013.12.camel@lucien-pc> Message-ID: <200909221027.50332.macoafi@gmail.com> On Tuesday 22 September 2009 9:54:45 am Lucien Lefevre wrote: > I'm trying to install clamAV antivirus but GUI clamtk is outdated with > the version 4.08 from synaptic (4.17 is available but not from > synaptic). > I know you are all extremely busy but if you could include update clamtk > 4.17 in the packages, unless you suggest it's ok to install it from > their site. Do you have backports enabled? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From mdz at canonical.com Tue Sep 22 17:41:45 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:41:45 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> Message-ID: <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 04:10:45PM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:23:01 -0700 > Steve Langasek wrote: > > Why would we not want to pull these for karmic? Is there a > > significant risk of regressions with these patches? > > > > If the only problem is that they don't always work, that's still > > better than where we are now, surely. > > FYI, Ben Gamari posted an updated version of the reset patchset. It > seems to work reliably now, so you might want to pick it up at some > point. It generates uevents when a reset happens, so you can further > track GPU hangs and bugs. I had a look at this recently and couldn't quite figure out how to match the uevent. The relevant code seems to be in drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_irq.c:i915_capture_error_state et al, but it's not obvious how to match that kobject in a udev rule. Can you give me a hint? -- - mdz From hggdh2 at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 22 22:25:49 2009 From: hggdh2 at ubuntu.com (C de-Avillez) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:25:49 -0500 Subject: Question on bug 383502 Message-ID: <1253654749.6940.12.camel@xango2> Hello, Bug 383502 was opened some time ago. The description reads: "GNU coreutils has a new command, timeout(1), since version 7. Someone suffered on Debian when coreutils's timeout clashed with an existing timeout command from the package timeout. http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=516652 (I'm surprised there's no automated check that two packages installing onto the same path should conflict.) Debian's fix was to not install the coreutils's timeout and this has passed into Ubuntu AFAICS. I think this means a bug remains in Ubuntu 9.10. GNU coreutils would be installed, but no timeout(1) command is present. Installing the timeout package isn't an option; its timeout command is operationally different, e.g. command line options. It seems the right fix is to have packages coreutils and timeout conflict so both can't be installed at the same time, but this would suggest timeout would never be installed. :-) So perhaps the better fix it to rename the timeout that comes from the timeout package for those people that need that particular one. I feel GNU coreutils has the right to pull rank; if its timeout isn't the one available it'll just cause more problems in the long term." This is a good point. The current /usr/bin/timeout is installed via source package tct (universe). Given that coreutils is a base package, it does make sense to accept this bug. There are differences in parameters, though [1], and I do not know what would be the impact. So. How should we proceed here? Thanks, ..C.. [1] --help output for both versions of 'timeout': hggdh $ /usr/bin/timeout --help usage: /usr/bin/timeout [-signal] time command... hggdh $ /usr/local/bin/timeout --help Usage: /usr/local/bin/timeout [OPTION] NUMBER[SUFFIX] COMMAND [ARG]... or: /usr/local/bin/timeout [OPTION] Start COMMAND, and kill it if still running after NUMBER seconds. SUFFIX may be `s' for seconds (the default), `m' for minutes, `h' for hours or `d' for days. Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. -s, --signal=SIGNAL specify the signal to be sent on timeout. SIGNAL may be a name like `HUP' or a number. See `kill -l` for a list of signals --help display this help and exit --version output version information and exit If the command times out, then exit with status 124. Otherwise, exit with the status of COMMAND. If no signal is specified, send the TERM signal upon timeout. The TERM signal kills any process that does not block or catch that signal. For other processes, it may be necessary to use the KILL (9) signal, since this signal cannot be caught. Report timeout bugs to bug-coreutils at gnu.org GNU coreutils home page: General help using GNU software: For complete documentation, run: info coreutils 'timeout invocation' hggdh $ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090922/2cae5941/attachment.pgp From thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 09:23:45 2009 From: thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:23:45 +0200 Subject: Server Team 20090922 meeting minutes Message-ID: <4AB9DB11.7030307@ubuntu.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online with the irc logs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090922. ==== Review ACTION points from previous meeting ==== * soren to add manifest files to UEC images build system for alpha6: Done * Daviey to update Asterisk 1.6 to RC1: In bzr and PPA, need sponsorship ACTION: Daviey to get his Asterisk 1.6RC2 update sponsored * soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place: assumed to be in hands of release team ACTION: soren to clear out status for ec2-version-query publication * soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query": Blocked by previous ACTION * zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted: Done * soren to sponsor the patch for bug 420581 and update his vmbuilder on nectarine: Done * ivoks to file FFe for the redhat-cluster update: Done, bug 429834 Carried-on items, for reference: ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query" (once publication is resolved) ACTION: kirkland to open discussion on how to best solve the remaining configuration options on Moodle appliance ACTION: kirkland to get help from soren and smoser on proper UEC-compatible image generation ACTION: kirkland to discuss with niemeyer and nurmi about image store integration testing ==== Alpha6 postmortem analysis ==== Alpha6 went out last week and was globally a smoother release process than Alpha5 release. A few todo items have been identified, to be implemented for beta release: * Define seeds for vmbuilder to use (cjwatson, soren) * MIR all non-main packages used in images (smoser), in progress This includes using euca2ools, which in the latest version is ec2-interface compatible. ACTION: soren to update to latest euca2ools * Publish ec2-version-query in a appropriate place (soren) * Automate image publishing (smoser) * Add build toolchain version numbers to manifests (soren) ACTION: soren to add image-generation-toolchain version numbers to manifests ==== Roadmap review: UEC/EC2 images bugs ==== * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images The karmic kernel used in the Alpha6 images turned out very good. The only issue reported about it is a few missing config options (bug 428692) and lack of modules (bug 429169). The most blocking issues in those lists are the MIR bugs since they don't strictly depend on the team and might raise last-minute extra work. ACTION: zul to follow up on the UEC/EC2 packages MIR status A bug needs to be filed about the fact that the images include unsupported packages, and targeted to beta. ACTION: smoser to file one bug for the fact that the images include unsupported packages ==== Roadmap review: Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6 ==== * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=eucalyptus ttx performed some feature/usability testing on the Cluster install side that uncovered multiple issues preventing autoregistering of components to work properly. The blocking issue is that it is no longer possible to register using "localhost", the external IP addresses must be used instead (as they will be passed to other components), see bug 434651. This might involve asking the user for the cluster's user *and* node facing IPs. euca_conf should also support for forcing local copy of keys (bug 434651). erichammond asked about euca2ools having to provide ec2-* links to the euca-* commands. At this point this is still under discussion. That discussion needs to happen somewhere, so a bug will be filed to support it. ACTION: ttx to file bug about providing ec2-* command names which call euca2ools ==== Roadmap review: Virtual appliance ==== kirkland reported a slowdown in appliance creation last week, as other priorities kicked in. He encountered some issues creating the images, mostly related to vmbuilder and debconf questions. Several community members contacted him to propose their own VM appliances and appliance builders. mdz said that the reference appliance must be produced this week. We need a fully reproducible build system but producing a reference appliance to exercise UEC and the image store is more urgent. mdz will take the opportunity of being at LinuxCon with kirkland to discuss this more. ACTION: mdz to sync with kirkland on Virtual appliance status On the image store side things seem to be under control, with niemeyer pushing last fixes and mathiaz packaging them. ==== Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs ==== Review of the bug list[1] raised the following remarks: * cjwatson considers himself almost entirely done with the eucalyptus tasks that were assigned to him * nurmi mentioned potential need for a few more bits in the init script to take into account /etc/eucalyptus/installer-cc.conf and will follow up with filing a bug if necessary * soren has a lot of bugs assigned, ttx will reassign a few to himself * mdz noticed that wishlist bugs should be omitted from that list unless they're targeted ACTION: ttx to poke QA team about omitting untargeted wishlist bugs from the buglist and add something to those pages which tell you who to contact about them [1] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html ==== Weekly SRU review ==== Most bugs in the recently-fixed bug list[2] pertain to karmic only, so nothing stands out as SRU-worthy. No nominations this week. On the list of accepted bugs with an assignee[3], zul said most of them are now waiting to be accepted into *-proposed. mathiaz said we should start using bzr branches to handle the SRU process, and wanted to involve sbeattie in the process. ACTION: mathiaz to involve sbeattie in the Weekly SRU review process [2] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html [3] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html ==== Open Discussion ==== erichammond said he still can't update importance on any ec2-images bugs, as he is not a member of bugcontrol yet. mdz fixed it. ==== Agree on next meeting date and time ==== Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September 29th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. Soren should soon start a discussion about moving the meeting to another time, as the extended duration of the meeting doesn't fit "people in CET with families" constraints. - -- Thierry Carrez Ubuntu server team -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkq52xEACgkQvcL1obalX09MYQCfTaMfIdrYZ1fCFOBFWlkp6K4r OPMAn3aIpSSsl3cacrujt/qArcK02cBi =/QaX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 13:26:16 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:26:16 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 13:30 -0400 schrieb Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre: > Being part of these "people who use PPAs and express a great deal of > interest in Ubuntu", I find that it is indeed not so hard, once you > know the right places to look for information. Finding that > information can sometimes be hard though. Or it's just a number of > little commands that one needs to remember to type before publishing a > package. What do you think should be easier? Do you have any examples? Maybe we can try to get a collection of documentation together that would make the job easier already. > That said, I know it's more something for the Launchpad mailing lists, > but I find that perhaps providing an interface through Launchpad, > where you can see the lintian warnings/errors for a package in a PPA > could be an interesting way of helping out getting people to know how > to improve their packaging work. Though I might be mistaken, I don't > think it would be so hard to implement. Providing a simple message and > link to more information on how to fix those would be a matter of > having a link to the right wiki page. Somebody should file a wishlist bug for that. :-) > Additionally, perhaps providing some quick way of uploading packages > from a PPA to REVU, or simply making REVU use a source package's files > from a PPA? I can see how someone might be packaging some shiny new > program, pushing it to a PPA, and then being advised that it would be > something useful to have included in the distribution. Sounds like a nice small project too. The documentation requirements you mentioned above strike as something that should be easy to fix. If you have some more ideas, I'd appreciate it. Have a great day, Daniel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 13:37:29 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:37:29 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <8d41218e0909211130n543085aej1e41dc890b23e72e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <8d41218e0909211130n543085aej1e41dc890b23e72e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253709449.2430.54.camel@bert> Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 14:30 -0400 schrieb Jordan Mantha: > I'm not sure there's much of a distinction in terms of work and > resources between doing packages reviews on REVU and in PPAs, bottom > line, stuff has to get looked at and the good stuff sponsored. I'm a bit surprised to hear this as the "bottom line" from you, who spent so much time on working on the Packaging Guide successfully educating newcomers. But maybe I was not clear enough: I wasn't talking about "finding nuggets" or "improving packages from PPA". The current state of things is: * people make use of PPAs to distribute fixes, new upstream versions, backports and the like * among them Upstream people who use this as a nice tool to distribute their software * also there's people asking more and more questions about how to things right and how to get things done in Ubuntu I'm convinced it's possible to find a list of very easy-to-achieve things that will improve the situation and help to bust some of the myths around Ubuntu development and guide them in the right direction. > Do you have any sense of how many of these people *want* to become > Ubuntu developers. My experience is that many of these PPAs are > upstreams/hobbyists who have no intention of becoming Ubuntu > developers. Indeed, many people use PPAs *because* REVU, sponsorship, > SRUs, etc. are seen as overly difficult and bureaucratic to be > involved in. Doesn't this strike you as something that we could fix with some good and targeted documentation? If so, what do you think we should cover? > I think what Scott's trying to say is that for a great many of the PPA > users, they are trying to work on top of Ubuntu, not for Ubuntu. This smells a bit like the old backports discussion we had years ago. Backports weren't official and sometimes problematic. We achieved a lot by getting Backports better integrated into our processes. Same goes for PPAs - by making it clear how our processes work, what the options are we gain a lot. Of course I'm not suggesting we merge every possible package or patch, there's a lot of packages and PPAs out there just for testing reasons and that's fine. For the cases where people try to make Ubuntu better and fail to connect with the Ubuntu developer base, we should think about what we can do to make that connection happen. Have a great day, Daniel From laserjock at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 15:07:24 2009 From: laserjock at ubuntu.com (Jordan Mantha) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:07:24 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253709449.2430.54.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <8d41218e0909211130n543085aej1e41dc890b23e72e@mail.gmail.com> <1253709449.2430.54.camel@bert> Message-ID: <8d41218e0909230707y32e080d4gbf5221eac95f0a14@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 14:30 -0400 schrieb Jordan Mantha: >> I'm not sure there's much of a distinction in terms of work and >> resources between doing packages reviews on REVU and in PPAs, bottom >> line, stuff has to get looked at and the good stuff sponsored. > > I'm a bit surprised to hear this as the "bottom line" from you, who > spent so much time on working on the Packaging Guide successfully > educating newcomers. I did spend a lot of time working on it, but now I see a lot of "I read the Packaging Guide and it's just too hard" on IRC. I'm starting to think that every time you write documentation there will always be people who either won't bother to read it, can't understand it, or are overwhelmed by it. Hopefully the Packaging Guide did help people out but "packaging for Ubuntu" is such a huge body of knowledge that it's quite difficult, as you all know, to write good documentation for it. > But maybe I was not clear enough: I wasn't talking about "finding > nuggets" or "improving packages from PPA". > > The current state of things is: > > ? ? ?* people make use of PPAs to distribute fixes, new upstream > ? ? ? ?versions, backports and the like Yes, although I do wonder if this is a good trend in general. I want to ask people who use PPAs why they aren't doing the work in Ubuntu itself so everybody can learn and benefit from their work. I think I know some of the answers, but I think it's a valuable question to ask people, "Can we just do this in Ubuntu directly?". Sometimes there are very good reasons you can't, but sometimes people just don't want to bother and we should try to prevent that kind of PPA usage as much as reasonably possible. > ? ? ?* among them Upstream people who use this as a nice tool to > ? ? ? ?distribute their software This is a great thing to see in PPAs and I've seen quite a bit of it, which excites me. Upstreams are learning some packaging and getting some idea of what it's all about. The problem I've seen, as I'm sure everybody else has too, is that some upstreams see PPAs as an easy alternative to maintaining or caring about their software in Ubuntu's archive. I've seen a few cases where upstreams essentially forked their packages (and sometimes libraries/dependencies) in their PPA, which makes syncing very difficult and tends to mean the Ubuntu package languishes. > ? ? ?* also there's people asking more and more questions about how to > ? ? ? ?things right and how to get things done in Ubuntu This is very good! We *do* want to encourage PPA users to make the leap into doing the "right thing" in pushing their contributions into Ubuntu. > I'm convinced it's possible to find a list of very easy-to-achieve > things that will improve the situation and help to bust some of the > myths around Ubuntu development and guide them in the right direction. I think it's useful to look at "managing expectations". This is something I sort of think about a lot regarding incoming volunteers. If somebody comes to Ubuntu wanting to work learn to package and contribute one of the things that will dishearten them the most is if the expectations of the process, effort required, and time involved are radically different than reality. What helps, IMO, is to look at what the expectations out there are of Ubuntu packaging, being a MOTU, etc. and develop a plan to "manage" those expectations so they fairly accurately portray reality. Examples of things that are already done that help are interviews. New people want to know how long it takes people to become MOTU, how long it takes to be a productive packager, and what knowledge and experience level is needed to become an Ubuntu developer. Another expectation is the time involved. Some people might be able to be productive Ubuntu developers on only a couple hours a week, but my experience has been that if you're serious about being an Ubuntu developer you need to put some serious time and effort into it, at least initially. Some people expect that going from no packaging knowledge to uploading to Ubuntu should take 5-10 minutes :-) In short, the more realistic your expectations are going into a project like this, the less of a chance of being overwhelmed, discouraged, or disillusioned. >> Do you have any sense of how many of these people *want* to become >> Ubuntu developers. My experience is that many of these PPAs are >> upstreams/hobbyists who have no intention of becoming Ubuntu >> developers. Indeed, many people use PPAs *because* REVU, sponsorship, >> SRUs, etc. are seen as overly difficult and bureaucratic to be >> involved in. > > Doesn't this strike you as something that we could fix with some good > and targeted documentation? Somewhat. I think documentation + community culture goes a long ways. We can write tons of documentation but if the "community" doesn't support or utilize it then it's going to be pretty useless. > If so, what do you think we should cover? My guess is what's needed are primarily 3 things: 1) a "so you've got a PPA, now what?" guide that gets lots of exposure. It really needs to be as close to the PPA as possible, preferably on Launchpad itself if possible. 2) an "Ubuntu processes for software developers and PPA users" that is a minimalistic, easy to read guide on what Ubuntu does and why it does it. Things like "What is the release schedule and what freezes do I have to worry about?", "How do I get fixes into -updates and what do I need to do to get ready?", "I've got a new bug-fix release, what do I do with it?", "When do I use -updates and when do I use -backports?", "Should I do in Debian or Ubuntu?", etc. 3) an Ubuntu Glossary or Translation guide for this class of people. They're not unfamiliar with Linux development as a whole, they're just not sure exactly what the Ubuntu jargon means (SRUs, etc.) and aren't hooked into the process like a MOTU or consistent contributor would be. >> I think what Scott's trying to say is that for a great many of the PPA >> users, they are trying to work on top of Ubuntu, not for Ubuntu. > > This smells a bit like the old backports discussion we had years ago. > Backports weren't official and sometimes problematic. We achieved a lot > by getting Backports better integrated into our processes. There is a bit of a distinction in that we integrated Backports by having it folded *into* the Ubuntu process. It's a bit more difficult here because the desire is to integrate PPAs into the Ubuntu process, while still keeping them outside of it to give PPA users freedom. > Same goes for PPAs - by making it clear how our processes work, what the > options are we gain a lot. Of course I'm not suggesting we merge every > possible package or patch, there's a lot of packages and PPAs out there > just for testing reasons and that's fine. What I would find most useful is to be able to use Launchpad to: 1) easily indicate that a bug report, bzr branch, PPA upload are "good" so I can say "hey, we need to look at this!" 2) easily find a list of "good" ones so I can sponsor them > For the cases where people try to make Ubuntu better and fail to connect > with the Ubuntu developer base, we should think about what we can do to > make that connection happen. First the assessment needs to be made that they are trying to make Ubuntu better. Not that people are malicious, but often times "better" means "better for me", which often means doing things that aren't suitable for the general user population. Also, sometimes "better" means "more convenient" because PPAs are not subject to Ubuntu policies. It would be nice to be able to distinguish between the following PPAs: - "OMG, Ubuntu is so stupid, I'm forking this package!!!" (probably not useful) - "OMG, why hasn't Ubuntu updated this package? I've done it here!!!" (could be useful for SRUs or development release) - "I've got packages that fix bug ..." (definitely need to look at) - "Hey, I just created my first package for Ubuntu!" (would be useful to hook up with REVU and talk to the person about MOTU) This is some of what I mean by a resource drain. I'm not sure that relying on people coming to #ubuntu-motu or wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment is going to get a lot of PPA contributors. It would be nice to actively "recruit" PPA users and/or troll through PPAs looking for good stuff. In the mean time maybe some documentation as I outlined above would be a decent compromise. :-) -Jordan From mathieu.tl at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 16:56:19 2009 From: mathieu.tl at gmail.com (Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:56:19 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> Message-ID: <79123a660909230856n1aafe6a8v3f418eeca6028f67@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > > What do you think should be easier? Do you have any examples? Maybe we > can try to get a collection of documentation together that would make > the job easier already. > I think the PackagingGuide is nice, and already contains a lot of the information required -- I check it fairly often. Perhaps it was also more of an issue with previous versions of the PackagingGuide. I can't think of anything right now, but I will try to spot which tasks I was getting "stuck" on, and propose changes. > >> That said, I know it's more something for the Launchpad mailing lists, >> but I find that perhaps providing an interface through Launchpad, >> where you can see the lintian warnings/errors for a package in a PPA >> could be an interesting way of helping out getting people to know how >> to improve their packaging work. Though I might be mistaken, I don't >> think it would be so hard to implement. Providing a simple message and >> link to more information on how to fix those would be a matter of >> having a link to the right wiki page. > > Somebody should file a wishlist bug for that. :-) > I just opened bug #435276 on that subject. > >> Additionally, perhaps providing some quick way of uploading packages >> from a PPA to REVU, or simply making REVU use a source package's files >> from a PPA? I can see how someone might be packaging some shiny new >> program, pushing it to a PPA, and then being advised that it would be >> something useful to have included in the distribution. > > Sounds like a nice small project too. > Does this also warrant a wishlist bug? Or does anyone have other/better ideas on how to do this? I think it also ties in to the previous discusssion on keeping PPA lineages in packages that are uploaded to the archive, and thus deals with how people like their changelog entries in this case :) / Matt From arne.goetje at canonical.com Wed Sep 23 19:31:26 2009 From: arne.goetje at canonical.com (Arne Goetje) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 02:31:26 +0800 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically Message-ID: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> Hi list, as you might know, we have a number of translation related packages for a given language in addition to the regular language-packs. For example: language-pack-gnome-*, language-pack-kde-*, thunderbird-locale-*, openoffice.org-l10n-*, etc.. These additional packages should only be installed when the user also has the main packages installed for which the translations make sense. The functionality to detect this and mark the additional packages for installation is currently in language-selector. That means, we currently have the situation that a user needs to run language-selector manually in order to get full language support installed. A related bug report for this is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/434173 I have created a command line tool as part of language-selector, which does the check for missing packages, so it's not necessary to run the full gnome-language-selector for this task. The code is here: lp:~arnegoetje/language-selector/language-selector-karmic The tool is called 'check-language-support' and can optionally take the argument -l, followed by a language-code (e.g. es_US, fi, zh-hant, ca_ES at valencia) It returns a list of missing packages, separated by space. If no language argument is given, the code will check for all already installed language-packs or those which are marked as to be installed and return the list of missing packages for all languages on the system. The idea is, that the installer runs this tool if network connectivity is available before the packages are actually installed, parses the output of 'check-language-support -l TARGET_LANGUAGE_CODE' and mark those packages for installation. Then the user will get a fully localized system right from the start. If no network connectivity was available at install time, or the user upgraded from an earlier Ubuntu release, update-manager/software-store should install the missing packages. Also, when a user adds packages to his system, which come with additional localization packages, the localization packages should be pulled automatically for the languages the user has installed on his system. Now, I'd like to ask for your feedback on how to implement this. Thanks Arne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090924/d67809cd/attachment.pgp From doko at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 20:49:02 2009 From: doko at ubuntu.com (Matthias Klose) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:49:02 +0200 Subject: Floating point ABI for the ARM port in karmic Message-ID: <4ABA7BAE.9090404@ubuntu.com> The ARM port in karmic builds by default with -mfloat-abi=softfp -mfpu=vfp. In comparision to jaunty that doesn't define the __SOFTFP__ macro anymore, and there is a lot of code which assumes a hard float abi when this macro is absent, although the *abi* didn't change. There is typically code like #ifdef __SOFTFP__ #endif #ifndef __SOFTFP__ #endif For ARM that code should be changed to #if defined(__SOFTFP__) || defined(__ARM_EABI__) #endif #if !defined(__SOFTFP__) && !defined(__ARM_EABI__) #endif This will help for a while until ARM gets support for the hard float abi and vfp and we start changing this again. Fixed at least GCC, libffi, python, OpenOffice (upload pending) and OpenJDK (upload pending). Matthias From aheck at gmx.de Wed Sep 23 19:59:51 2009 From: aheck at gmx.de (Andreas Heck) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:59:51 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> Message-ID: <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> Hi, Am Mittwoch, den 23.09.2009, 14:26 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: > Am Montag, den 21.09.2009, 13:30 -0400 schrieb Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre: > > Being part of these "people who use PPAs and express a great deal of > > interest in Ubuntu", I find that it is indeed not so hard, once you > > know the right places to look for information. Finding that > > information can sometimes be hard though. Or it's just a number of > > little commands that one needs to remember to type before publishing a > > package. I think this problem could be solved by a packaging cheat sheet :) As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead during freeze. Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process look more bureaucratic than it actually is. Best regards, Andreas From jesse.barnes at intel.com Wed Sep 23 21:27:09 2009 From: jesse.barnes at intel.com (Jesse Barnes) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:27:09 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> Message-ID: <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:41:45 -0700 Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 04:10:45PM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 00:23:01 -0700 > > Steve Langasek wrote: > > > Why would we not want to pull these for karmic? Is there a > > > significant risk of regressions with these patches? > > > > > > If the only problem is that they don't always work, that's still > > > better than where we are now, surely. > > > > FYI, Ben Gamari posted an updated version of the reset patchset. It > > seems to work reliably now, so you might want to pick it up at some > > point. It generates uevents when a reset happens, so you can > > further track GPU hangs and bugs. > > I had a look at this recently and couldn't quite figure out how to > match the uevent. The relevant code seems to be in > drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_irq.c:i915_capture_error_state et al, but > it's not obvious how to match that kobject in a udev rule. Can you > give me a hint? You should get a uevent from the i915 drm device (udevadm will show hotplug events when you plug/unplug VGA; you can use them as an example). You'll get three events, one when the error is detected, one before the reset and one after. Each has a different environment variable set; the initial error has ERROR=1, the pre-reset event has RESET=1 and the post-reset event has ERROR=0. Does that help? Jesse From mdz at canonical.com Wed Sep 23 23:28:54 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:28:54 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> Message-ID: <20090923222854.GF4489@atomicity> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 01:27:09PM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:41:45 -0700 > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > I had a look at this recently and couldn't quite figure out how to > > match the uevent. The relevant code seems to be in > > drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_irq.c:i915_capture_error_state et al, but > > it's not obvious how to match that kobject in a udev rule. Can you > > give me a hint? > > You should get a uevent from the i915 drm device (udevadm will show > hotplug events when you plug/unplug VGA; you can use them as an > example). > > You'll get three events, one when the error is detected, one before the > reset and one after. Each has a different environment variable set; > the initial error has ERROR=1, the pre-reset event has RESET=1 and the > post-reset event has ERROR=0. > > Does that help? Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. I assume we should get the dump after the error and before the reset? -- - mdz From jw+debian at jameswestby.net Thu Sep 24 00:46:50 2009 From: jw+debian at jameswestby.net (James Westby) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:46:50 +0100 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> Message-ID: <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> On Wed Sep 23 23:43:29 +0100 2009 Martin Pitt wrote: > Hello all, > > many of us have added metadata to Ubuntu package patches for a while > now, following > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines > > This was discussed a while ago with Debian, and now resulted in a > similar proposal for Debian (see below). Debian's proposal is not > vendor-specific (like our's), and also more flexible. Yes, we should switch. > I'd like to update our PatchTaggingGuidelines to refer to the DEP3 > now, and give some updated Ubuntu examples. However, it's not clear that they are finalised, given further discussion on debian-devel. While it may not be an incompatible change, are we better off playing "wait and see" to avoid perhaps switching twice? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/09/msg00408.html Thanks, James From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 07:56:55 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:56:55 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> Message-ID: <20090924065655.GA2617@piware.de> James Westby [2009-09-24 0:46 +0100]: > However, it's not clear that they are finalised, given further discussion > on debian-devel. While it may not be an incompatible change, are we > better off playing "wait and see" to avoid perhaps switching twice? Agreed. The discussion seems to be very git centric there, but *shrug*. Aliases for the win :-) Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From raphael at ouaza.com Thu Sep 24 07:56:50 2009 From: raphael at ouaza.com (Raphael Hertzog) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:56:50 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> Message-ID: <20090924065650.GG11507@rivendell> Le jeudi 24 septembre 2009, James Westby a ?crit : > > I'd like to update our PatchTaggingGuidelines to refer to the DEP3 > > now, and give some updated Ubuntu examples. > > However, it's not clear that they are finalised, given further discussion > on debian-devel. While it may not be an incompatible change, are we > better off playing "wait and see" to avoid perhaps switching twice? > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/09/msg00408.html I expect to change it yes, for better compatibily with git-format-patch. But I'll try to not break what we already have. It will probably be along the lines of headers can be split in two blocks and any other lines is part of the long description (up to the first "---\n") with Subject and From new aliases for short description and Author. Cheers, -- Rapha?l Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Freexian : des d?veloppeurs Debian au service des entreprises http://www.freexian.com From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 12:13:21 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:13:21 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <79123a660909230856n1aafe6a8v3f418eeca6028f67@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <79123a660909230856n1aafe6a8v3f418eeca6028f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253790801.7933.25.camel@bert> Am Mittwoch, den 23.09.2009, 11:56 -0400 schrieb Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre: > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Daniel Holbach > wrote: > >> Additionally, perhaps providing some quick way of uploading packages > >> from a PPA to REVU, or simply making REVU use a source package's files > >> from a PPA? I can see how someone might be packaging some shiny new > >> program, pushing it to a PPA, and then being advised that it would be > >> something useful to have included in the distribution. > > > > Sounds like a nice small project too. > > > > Does this also warrant a wishlist bug? Or does anyone have > other/better ideas on how to do this? I think it also ties in to the > previous discusssion on keeping PPA lineages in packages that are > uploaded to the archive, and thus deals with how people like their > changelog entries in this case :) I'm not sure how often this would be used / required, but you could file a Wishlist bug on ubuntu-dev-tools - that sounds like a nice home for it. Have a great day, Daniel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 12:17:14 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:17:14 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> Message-ID: <1253791034.7933.29.camel@bert> Am Mittwoch, den 23.09.2009, 20:59 +0200 schrieb Andreas Heck: > As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I > think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead > during freeze. > > Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are > more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take > away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process > look more bureaucratic than it actually is. I like the idea of a cheat-sheet. What would belong on there? * general introduction of where to find information about packaging * how to contribute stuff * what we focus on in which part of the cycle, what we DON'T do * an overview of where fixes/updates/etc. to stable go and how that works * ... what else? :-) Have a great day, Daniel From michael at bienia.de Thu Sep 24 13:44:42 2009 From: michael at bienia.de (Michael Bienia) Date: 24 Sep 2009 14:44:42 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> Message-ID: <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> On 2009-09-23 20:59:51 +0200, Andreas Heck wrote: > As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I > think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead > during freeze. > > Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are > more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take > away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process > look more bureaucratic than it actually is. I think that packaging an (unpackaged) software is not the best way to start contributing to Ubuntu. And therefore don't participate in reviews on REVU anymore. The reason behind this is that I get the impression that there are way too many packages that are getting packaged once and then left without a maintainer and only add to the general burden on MOTU. I got contacted by an upstream around two weeks ago after I uploaded a fix for a FTBFS. He asked me why Ubuntu still ships such an old and bugged version of his software and would prefer to get it removed from Ubuntu if an update is not possible. As we don't have someone who is interested in maintaining that package I opted for the removal. The package got packaged 3 years ago and since then had only two further uploads fixing a FTBFS and at least 8 new upstream releases since then. It doesn't help Ubuntu if we ship old versions of software to our users. It may sound harsh but it's better to not package a software if we don't have the resources to maintain it (i.e. a person looking after that package) than package it and let it rot after that. At least it would be more honest. I'm not against new packages at all if they are maintained properly. I do reviews now and then but only for MOTUs as can assume that they know what it takes to maintain a package and package only software that is really needed and not because they found an unpackaged application on the web. I'd prefer if new contributors start with helping on existing packages. This helps Ubuntu more and IMHO it's an easier approach as one needs to concentrate on only one aspect of packaging (e.g. adding missing build-dependencies, applying patches, etc.) instead of doing it all at once which might be overwhelming. And I also hope that new people understand that way that maintaining a package is not that easy and don't package new software that lightly. I don't mean that we should make it hard for people to get new packages in (it still should be easy), but we also shouldn't accept every package that appears on our doorstep. We should only let those in where we can assume that they are being maintained afterwards. Perhaps PPAs are a good ground to let people prove that they are really interested in maintaining a new package before we let the package into Ubuntu. Michael From ubuntu at kitterman.com Thu Sep 24 16:01:31 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:01:31 -0400 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> Message-ID: <15123-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E13A52@[75.198.0.68]> On 24 Sep 2009 14:44:42 +0200 "Michael Bienia" wrote: >On 2009-09-23 20:59:51 +0200, Andreas Heck wrote: >> As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I >> think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead >> during freeze. >> >> Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are >> more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take >> away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process >> look more bureaucratic than it actually is. > >I think that packaging an (unpackaged) software is not the best way to >start contributing to Ubuntu. And therefore don't participate in reviews >on REVU anymore. The reason behind this is that I get the impression >that there are way too many packages that are getting packaged once and >then left without a maintainer and only add to the general burden on >MOTU. > >I got contacted by an upstream around two weeks ago after I uploaded a >fix for a FTBFS. He asked me why Ubuntu still ships such an old and >bugged version of his software and would prefer to get it removed from >Ubuntu if an update is not possible. As we don't have someone who is >interested in maintaining that package I opted for the removal. The >package got packaged 3 years ago and since then had only two further >uploads fixing a FTBFS and at least 8 new upstream releases since then. > >It doesn't help Ubuntu if we ship old versions of software to our users. >It may sound harsh but it's better to not package a software if we don't >have the resources to maintain it (i.e. a person looking after that >package) than package it and let it rot after that. At least it would be >more honest. > >I'm not against new packages at all if they are maintained properly. I >do reviews now and then but only for MOTUs as can assume that they know >what it takes to maintain a package and package only software that is >really needed and not because they found an unpackaged application on >the web. > >I'd prefer if new contributors start with helping on existing packages. >This helps Ubuntu more and IMHO it's an easier approach as one needs to >concentrate on only one aspect of packaging (e.g. adding missing >build-dependencies, applying patches, etc.) instead of doing it all at >once which might be overwhelming. >And I also hope that new people understand that way that maintaining a >package is not that easy and don't package new software that lightly. > >I don't mean that we should make it hard for people to get new packages >in (it still should be easy), but we also shouldn't accept every package >that appears on our doorstep. We should only let those in where we can >assume that they are being maintained afterwards. >Perhaps PPAs are a good ground to let people prove that they are really >interested in maintaining a new package before we let the package into >Ubuntu. > I think this all makes sense. More and more, I think packages do need a maintainer. In Main there are teams that generally well maintained. In Universe we have a harder problem. I've recently wondered if we should not carry binaries forward from the previous release, do an in archive rebuild at the start of each debelopment cycle once the toolchain is in place, and then automatically remove packages that don't have a successful build during the development cycle (and thus have no binaries). This would ensure we don't carry unsupportable cruft into a release. I have long thought it was better to bring new packages in through Debian. One reason, related to this thread, is that it ensures there is some maintainer that is keeping the package up to date. Perhaps we could take packages into Ubuntu with the understanding that if they were not in Debian in one or two release cycles they would be removed from Ubuntu (unless some special arrangement is made and evidence of maintenance in Ubuntu is evident). Scott K From derek at pointerstop.ca Thu Sep 24 14:35:26 2009 From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:35:26 -0300 Subject: Packaging Help References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> Message-ID: Michael Bienia wrote: > I think that packaging an (unpackaged) software is not the best way to > start contributing to Ubuntu. And therefore don't participate in reviews > on REVU anymore. The reason behind this is that I get the impression > that there are way too many packages that are getting packaged once and > then left without a maintainer and only add to the general burden on > MOTU. Yes. I just suggested Umbrello be removed from KDE. Beautiful, but so far behind the times that it's worthless... -- derek From mdz at canonical.com Thu Sep 24 17:26:12 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:26:12 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090924091200.2fb01874@jbarnes-x200> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> <20090923222854.GF4489@atomicity> <20090924091200.2fb01874@jbarnes-x200> Message-ID: <20090924162612.GR4489@atomicity> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:12:00AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:28:54 -0700 > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. > > > > I assume we should get the dump after the error and before the reset? > > Yeah, if you can capture it at the first ERROR=1 event it might be > helpful. Capturing state after the reset probably isn't necessary. I've written some code which I think will work; do you have any suggestions as to how to test it? Is it possible to trigger an error intentionally? -- - mdz From jesse.barnes at intel.com Thu Sep 24 17:12:00 2009 From: jesse.barnes at intel.com (Jesse Barnes) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:12:00 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090923222854.GF4489@atomicity> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> <20090923222854.GF4489@atomicity> Message-ID: <20090924091200.2fb01874@jbarnes-x200> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:28:54 -0700 Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 01:27:09PM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:41:45 -0700 > > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > > I had a look at this recently and couldn't quite figure out how to > > > match the uevent. The relevant code seems to be in > > > drivers/gpu/drm/i915/i915_irq.c:i915_capture_error_state et al, > > > but it's not obvious how to match that kobject in a udev rule. > > > Can you give me a hint? > > > > You should get a uevent from the i915 drm device (udevadm will show > > hotplug events when you plug/unplug VGA; you can use them as an > > example). > > > > You'll get three events, one when the error is detected, one before > > the reset and one after. Each has a different environment variable > > set; the initial error has ERROR=1, the pre-reset event has RESET=1 > > and the post-reset event has ERROR=0. > > > > Does that help? > > Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. > > I assume we should get the dump after the error and before the reset? Yeah, if you can capture it at the first ERROR=1 event it might be helpful. Capturing state after the reset probably isn't necessary. Jesse From loic.martin3 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 17:07:44 2009 From: loic.martin3 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Martin?=) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:07:44 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> Message-ID: <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> The order of your email has been changed, because the part I put at the end gets off-topic, the relevant one is at the top. Michael Bienia wrote: > I'd prefer if new contributors start with helping on existing packages. > This helps Ubuntu more and IMHO it's an easier approach as one needs to > concentrate on only one aspect of packaging (e.g. adding missing > build-dependencies, applying patches, etc.) instead of doing it all at > once which might be overwhelming. I actually learnt a lot preparing my first package, which was useful later ;) Far more than doing merges/sync/small patches/upgrades for packages which packaging is messy or really old, especially when you can't fix much because you have to keep it as close to Debian as possible (for future syncs/merges). Everybody is different, but what I learnt through REVU was a great help for the rest (except for writing get-orig-source targets, which apparently nobody cares for in Debian). More important, I found the REVU process far friendlier and transparent than the sponsorship job needed when working on existing packages. The main problem I'm afraid off when telling new contributors we'd rather see them working on existing packages is that the sponsorship process can get really unfriendly and obscure, unlike REVU. Having someone's patch or diff.gz (that they spent countless hours on) sit for months unlooked doesn't encourage anyone into contributing, and nagging on #ubuntu-motu is nobody's idea of fun. Especially if everybody agree those same "unmaintained" packages are the problem we would want to solve in the first place[1]. The new reviewing practice with #ubuntu-review seems like a step in the right direction. Maybe having clear rules for Launchpad sponsoring would make it more transparent too, like having fixed time limits for a bug awaiting sponsorship to be looked at (twice a month, with set dates maybe? or a countdown thing per bug?). I don't say sponsor them if they've got issues, but at least stating why it isn't in good shape. Hopefully not just "Your diff.gz had to wait long enough for a new policy to come on, please update Standards-version and reupload" :P In the end, having to nag people on IRC means you fix less bugs, and reduce the number of packages you work on, for fear of being obnoxious. Sadly, the packages needing the more work are those that gets less chances of sponsoring, probably because they aren't in a field the sponsors are interested in. Users are though. > On 2009-09-23 20:59:51 +0200, Andreas Heck wrote: >> As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I >> think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead >> during freeze. >> >> Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are >> more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take >> away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process >> look more bureaucratic than it actually is. > > I think that packaging an (unpackaged) software is not the best way to > start contributing to Ubuntu. And therefore don't participate in reviews > on REVU anymore. The reason behind this is that I get the impression > that there are way too many packages that are getting packaged once and > then left without a maintainer and only add to the general burden on > MOTU. > > I got contacted by an upstream around two weeks ago after I uploaded a > fix for a FTBFS. He asked me why Ubuntu still ships such an old and > bugged version of his software and would prefer to get it removed from > Ubuntu if an update is not possible. As we don't have someone who is > interested in maintaining that package I opted for the removal. The > package got packaged 3 years ago and since then had only two further > uploads fixing a FTBFS and at least 8 new upstream releases since then. > > It doesn't help Ubuntu if we ship old versions of software to our users. It does help our users though. Most people don't know how to get a program working in Ubuntu if it's not in the repositories, and upstreams usually only provide binaries for Windows and OSX, which leaves people no choice if the application isn't in the repositories. They thus have to switch back to Windows, not because the application they need doesn't have an open source equivalent, but because they can't use their open source application in Ubuntu. For most people but enthusiasts, and older version is far better than no version at all - they might not even see the difference. Unless the version in Ubuntu has security issues, saying that it's old and buggy is from a developer's perspective. people that have used that application 3 years ago learnt to do their work around the bugs. On the other hand, there's plenty of well-maintained and up-to-date applications that crash on our desktop everyday, and nobody's thinking about pulling them out from the repos. The question would be to address the need of lambda users (who don't really care if a package FTBFS in new versions as long as it's still working on the desktop) - see Scott reply to our email, which deal with the developer side of things, but doesn't address the problem from the user side. Moreover, it's usually not that hard for a new contributor to upgrade a package from upstream, and provides an easy level of entry into contributing. Far easier than when the application comes from Debian, and the developer isn't responding, or when the packaging itself has so much issues it wouldn't be sponsored if it was to be submitted into Ubuntu now. Packages that enter Ubuntu through REVU are far easier to deal with actually. > It may sound harsh but it's better to not package a software if we don't > have the resources to maintain it (i.e. a person looking after that > package) than package it and let it rot after that. At least it would be > more honest. Agreed. If we can make it easier for people to care for existing packages, wouldn't that help keep them contributing? Lo?c [1] Just for reference, because they're recent: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xvidcore/+bug/306399 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sdlmame/+bug/403212 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ecm/+bug/410707 The first one we're not even respecting the license of the binaries we ship. The last one is fixed, but you can look at the time schedule and see the problem for new contributors. From andersk at mit.edu Sun Sep 20 19:00:22 2009 From: andersk at mit.edu (Anders Kaseorg) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:00:22 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~anders-kaseorg/sreadahead/qsort into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/sreadahead/ubuntu Message-ID: <20090920180021.30698.16145.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Anders Kaseorg has proposed merging lp:~anders-kaseorg/sreadahead/qsort into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/sreadahead/ubuntu. Requested reviews: Scott James Remnant (scott) -- https://code.launchpad.net/~anders-kaseorg/sreadahead/qsort/+merge/12140 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/sreadahead/ubuntu. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 1361 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090920/d3878773/attachment.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 18:35:17 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:35:17 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/casper/excessive-mounting into lp:casper Message-ID: <20090904173516.32022.41612.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Tormod Volden has proposed merging lp:~tormodvolden/casper/excessive-mounting into lp:casper. Requested reviews: Ubuntu Core Development Team (ubuntu-core-dev) -- https://code.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/casper/excessive-mounting/+merge/11218 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:casper. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 1281 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090904/4e1a0b4e/attachment.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Sun Sep 6 12:45:18 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:45:18 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/casper/empty-dev into lp:casper Message-ID: <20090906114517.31314.85195.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Tormod Volden has proposed merging lp:~tormodvolden/casper/empty-dev into lp:casper. Requested reviews: Ubuntu Core Development Team (ubuntu-core-dev) -- https://code.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/casper/empty-dev/+merge/11267 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:casper. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090906/f7c473d1/attachment.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 11:05:20 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:05:20 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm into lp:casper Message-ID: <20090909100517.14195.41961.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Tormod Volden has proposed merging lp:~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm into lp:casper. Requested reviews: Ubuntu Core Development Team (ubuntu-core-dev) -- https://code.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm/+merge/11423 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:casper. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/9b00a104/attachment.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 14:01:03 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:01:03 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm into lp:casper In-Reply-To: <20090913113347.19729.11273.codereview@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20090922130102.548.36871.codereview@potassium.ubuntu.com> ping? -- https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm/+merge/11423 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:casper. From gnomefreak at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 16:25:27 2009 From: gnomefreak at gmail.com (John Vivirito) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:25:27 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu into lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu Message-ID: <20090907152519.1987.530.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> John Vivirito has proposed merging lp:~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu into lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu. Please review and merge. -- https://code.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu/+merge/11312 Your team Ubuntu Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/flashgot.ubuntu. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review.diff Type: text/x-diff Size: 584831 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090907/3ba50e44/attachment.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 12:33:47 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:33:47 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm into lp:casper In-Reply-To: <20090909100517.14195.41961.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090913113347.19729.11273.codereview@potassium.ubuntu.com> Would be nice to get this in before alpha 6, so that people with fakeraids can boot the live CD. -- https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/casper/inspect-dm/+merge/11423 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:casper. From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 18:57:59 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:57:59 +0200 Subject: Welcome new MOTUs: Marc Deslauriers, Michael Terry, Fabrice Coutadeur Message-ID: <1253815079.3665.12.camel@bert> Hello everybody, we'd like to announce that three new MOTUs just joined the team. All of them contributed a lot to Ubuntu and we're very very happy to have them. Marc Deslauriers works in the Ubuntu Security team and has done a lot of amazing work in a short time. Keep it up! Fabrice Coutadeur has been working on lots and lots of packages already and helped to clear up lots of obscure build failures, also is he interested in video editing. Michael Terry has done great work in Canonical's OEM team but also in getting rsyslog ready for Karmic and doing lots of merges. His main objective is getting deja-dup into main. Please give them a round of applause and a warm welcome to the team! Have a great day, Daniel From aheck at gmx.de Thu Sep 24 20:35:14 2009 From: aheck at gmx.de (Andreas Heck) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:35:14 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <1253791034.7933.29.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <1253791034.7933.29.camel@bert> Message-ID: <1253820914.3254.17.camel@tpad> Hi all, Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 13:17 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: > Am Mittwoch, den 23.09.2009, 20:59 +0200 schrieb Andreas Heck: > > As someone you just recently tries to contribute packages to Ubuntu I > > think the biggest problem at the moment is that REVU seems to be dead > > during freeze. > > > > Of course you can't get something in at the moment anyway and there are > > more important tasks at the moment for sure but nevertheless it can take > > away some enthusiasm from prospective contributors and makes the process > > look more bureaucratic than it actually is. > > I like the idea of a cheat-sheet. What would belong on there? > > * general introduction of where to find information about > packaging > * how to contribute stuff > * what we focus on in which part of the cycle, what we DON'T do > * an overview of where fixes/updates/etc. to stable go and how > that works > * ... what else? :-) The technical side should also be mentioned. Maybe two separate cheet sheets would be best where one describes the processes and the organisational stuff and the other focuses on the technical aspects like the most important activity oriented command-lines for: - debuild - pbuilder - dput - dh_make - lintian - dch - ... Best regards, Andreas From jesse.barnes at intel.com Thu Sep 24 20:08:37 2009 From: jesse.barnes at intel.com (Jesse Barnes) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:08:37 -0700 Subject: Debugging tools/approach for GPU hangs? In-Reply-To: <20090924162612.GR4489@atomicity> References: <20090904000245.GD5169@atomicity> <20090904092545.GV4906@bryceharrington.org> <20090904081209.7a551eb6@jbarnes-g45> <20090906051628.GA1055@bryceharrington.org> <20090906072301.GD23418@dario.dodds.net> <20090915161045.0c316887@jbarnes-g45> <20090922164145.GM4489@atomicity> <20090923132709.3ba3d8d9@jbarnes-x200> <20090923222854.GF4489@atomicity> <20090924091200.2fb01874@jbarnes-x200> <20090924162612.GR4489@atomicity> Message-ID: <20090924120837.423e438a@jbarnes-x200> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:26:12 -0700 Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:12:00AM -0700, Jesse Barnes wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:28:54 -0700 > > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > > Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. > > > > > > I assume we should get the dump after the error and before the > > > reset? > > > > Yeah, if you can capture it at the first ERROR=1 event it might be > > helpful. Capturing state after the reset probably isn't necessary. > > I've written some code which I think will work; do you have any > suggestions as to how to test it? Is it possible to trigger an error > intentionally? We do have some hang tests in intel-gpu-tools; that's probably the best place to start (git://git.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/app/intel-gpu-tools iirc). Jesse From jorge at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 20:35:18 2009 From: jorge at ubuntu.com (Jorge O. Castro) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:35:18 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching Message-ID: Hi everyone, Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l Information on applying is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/Sponsorship -- Jorge Castro jorge (at) ubuntu.com External Project Developer Relations Canonical Ltd. From mdz at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 22:19:12 2009 From: mdz at ubuntu.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:19:12 -0700 Subject: UEC installer status Message-ID: <20090924211912.GB4489@atomicity> Bcc: Subject: Re: UEC installer status Reply-To: (resending to ubuntu-devel) On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:00:55PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > Quick notes from the UEC installer testing I did this evening: > > * I ran into yet another debootstrap bug (sigh), quickly fixed in > 1.0.19. > > * It would be nice if the cluster told you the admin URL on boot so > that you don't have to look it up in the documentation. Please file this as a bug and tag 'eucalyptus'. > * The first time I tried the node installation, it failed to download > the preseed file from the cluster because it had got the IPv6 > address and I don't have IPv6 routing set up between my VMs. The > failure was rather messy and didn't let me continue anyway (fixed in > bzr), but I wonder if we should fix euca_find_cluster to actively > prefer IPv4 addresses. Please file a bug for this one as well, tag eucalyptus. > * The answer to the encrypt-home-directory question wasn't correctly > carried over from cluster to node installation (fixed in bzr). Is this important for beta? > * dhcpd failed to start when the installed node booted. Syslog says > that it's configured to listen on virbr0. Shouldn't this be br0 > instead? I'm not entirely sure where it's getting this from - I > think it must be > /etc/libvirt/qemu/networks/{,autostart/}defaults.xml, as that's the > only mention of virbr in /etc. At any rate, I think it's also > generally lacking in configuration. Is it correct for us to be > installing a DHCP server on each node? I don't know the answer to this. Dan? > * euca_conf --discover-nodes doesn't do word-splitting correctly on > the list of discovered nodes (fixed in bzr). > > * euca_conf --discover-nodes incorrectly offers the cluster as well as > nodes (fixed in bzr). > > * euca_conf --discover-nodes prints: > > warning: //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys//node-cert.pem doesn't exists! > warning: //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys//cluster-cert.pem doesn't exists! > warning: //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys//node-pk.pem doesn't exists! > warning: //var/lib/eucalyptus/keys//cluster-pk.pem doesn't exists! > > Trying rsync to sync keys with "172.16.153.34"...The authenticity of host '172.16.153.34 (172.16.153.34) can't be established. > [usual ssh stuff when you don't have the host key] > > (Typo: "doesn't exists" -> "doesn't exist" in four places in > euca_conf, only one of which is responsible for this.) > > I assume that this is because cluster auto-registration isn't > happening (bug 434590). Shoudl 434590 be fixed for beta? > We probably ought to use 'ssh -oStrictHostKeyChecking=no' in the > --discover-nodes case (not in the general case, I think; it's not > perfect to turn off host key checking in general, but it's > definitely not good to turn it off when you might have to use > password authentication). This is a bit fiddly so I didn't do it on > the spot. > > * I therefore went to register the local cloud components using > Thierry's instructions in bug 434590. I note that we really ought to > add the cloud machine's own ssh key to /etc/ssh/known_hosts or > something so that you don't have to use --local-sync. Bug please. > * Now euca_conf --discover-nodes is happier, but it first tries to > rsync keys to root on the nodes, rather than to the eucalyptus user. > Is there any particular reason for this, or can we change this to > rsync to ${EUCA_USER}@${REMOTE}:${DESTDIR}/ instead? I'm not > comfortable with installing anything in root's authorized_keys, even > if it is only a computing node. Sounds reasonable to me. > * At this point I *think* I have everything registered and working. I > can't find any way to actually confirm that all the components are > registered properly, though? I can't actually upload VM images to it > since I'm testing this in VMs and nested virtualisation is probably > not going to work very well. > > As such, I think this is as far as I can go with testing for now, > although this seemed fairly worthwhile since I found several > unreported bugs. Which of the above items need to be fixed in the archive before it is worth spinning and testing a new ISO build? -- - mdz From mdz at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 22:34:07 2009 From: mdz at ubuntu.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:34:07 -0700 Subject: UEC installer status In-Reply-To: <20090924211912.GB4489@atomicity> References: <20090924211912.GB4489@atomicity> Message-ID: <20090924213407.GC4489@atomicity> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 02:19:12PM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:00:55PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > > * dhcpd failed to start when the installed node booted. Syslog says > > that it's configured to listen on virbr0. Shouldn't this be br0 > > instead? I'm not entirely sure where it's getting this from - I > > think it must be > > /etc/libvirt/qemu/networks/{,autostart/}defaults.xml, as that's the > > only mention of virbr in /etc. At any rate, I think it's also > > generally lacking in configuration. Is it correct for us to be > > installing a DHCP server on each node? > > I don't know the answer to this. Dan? Dan says it isn't needed, and it looks like we already have https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/364925 filed. There seem to be a number of other bugs open about eucalyptus dependencies: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/411656 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/338344 https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/364902 -- - mdz From michael at bienia.de Thu Sep 24 23:19:09 2009 From: michael at bienia.de (Michael Bienia) Date: 25 Sep 2009 00:19:09 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the > Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th > to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the deadline is already in 3 days. Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would like to be and I don't really like it. Michael From ubuntu at kitterman.com Fri Sep 25 00:13:09 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:13:09 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> Message-ID: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> On 25 Sep 2009 00:19:09 +0200 "Michael Bienia" wrote: >On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: >> Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the >> Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th >> to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l > >Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code >name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor >did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or >ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the >next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the >deadline is already in 3 days. > >Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible >resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) >all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. > >I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would >like to be and I don't really like it. > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only found out because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would have been appropriate. Scott K From macoafi at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 03:01:37 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:01:37 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> Message-ID: <200909242201.37566.macoafi@gmail.com> On Thursday 24 September 2009 7:13:09 pm Scott Kitterman wrote: > On 25 Sep 2009 00:19:09 +0200 "Michael Bienia" wrote: > >On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > >> Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the > >> Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th > >> to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l > > > >Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code > >name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor > >did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or > >ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the > >next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the > >deadline is already in 3 days. > > > >Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible > >resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) > >all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. > > > >I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would > >like to be and I don't really like it. > > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only found out > because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would have > been appropriate. It was blogged? I don't recall seeing it on Planet Ubuntu... Seconding the u- d-a suggestion for next time. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From nhandler at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 03:06:57 2009 From: nhandler at ubuntu.com (Nathan Handler) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:06:57 +0000 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <200909242201.37566.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@70.198.103.97> <200909242201.37566.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:01 AM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > It was blogged? I don't recall seeing it on Planet Ubuntu... ?Seconding the u- > d-a suggestion for next time. Yes, it was blogged about at [1] and [2]. Both of those blogs are on planet.ubuntu.com. Even though it was blogged about, I agree that an email to the mailing lists would have been a good idea. An email to a list like u-d-a (low volume list) is much easier to notice than a blog post on the planet (which gets many new posts each day). Nathan [1] http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/09/15/uds-update/ [2] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1907 (Repost of [1]) From laserjock at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 03:27:47 2009 From: laserjock at ubuntu.com (Jordan Mantha) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:27:47 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@70.198.103.97> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@70.198.103.97> Message-ID: <8d41218e0909241927p1265acbcx41e727b68a03e593@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On 25 Sep 2009 00:19:09 +0200 "Michael Bienia" wrote: >>On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: >>> Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the >>> Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th >>> to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l >> >>Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code >>name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor >>did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or >>ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the >>next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the >>deadline is already in 3 days. >> >>Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible >>resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) >>all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. >> >>I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would >>like to be and I don't really like it. >> > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. ?I only found out > because of a passing mention on IRC. ?I think a post to U-D-A would have > been appropriate. Additionally, the place where it was being held was not announced at any point that I'm aware of, just that it was going to be in the US. As often times a person needs to make sure they can even attend before trying for sponsorship it would have been nice to have a bit more time to decide. -Jordan FYI: Apparently UDS-L will be in Dallas, TX based on the wiki page. From awalton at gnome.org Fri Sep 25 00:07:17 2009 From: awalton at gnome.org (A. Walton) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:07:17 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the > Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th > to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l > > Information on applying is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/Sponsorship Is there anywhere in the interface to make sure that your request actually went through? Whenever I applied, I got Firefox's infamous "I don't want to load this page, so here's a blank white one instead" after hitting submit, and it'd be nice if it said somewhere e.g. "Your application is pending review." Thanks, -A. Walton > -- > Jorge Castro > jorge (at) ubuntu.com > External Project Developer Relations > Canonical Ltd. > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel From jono at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 23:54:25 2009 From: jono at ubuntu.com (Jono Bacon) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:54:25 -0700 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> Message-ID: <4ABBF8A1.1070600@ubuntu.com> On 09/24/2009 03:19 PM, Michael Bienia wrote: > On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > >> Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the >> Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th >> to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l >> > Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code > name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor > did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or > ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the > next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the > deadline is already in 3 days. > > Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible > resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) > all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. > > I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would > like to be and I don't really like it. > > Sorry to hear your experience. We posted to the Fridge and to Planet about UDS and sponsorships, and also the animal name. You are right that we should have posted to ubuntu-devel earler: I aplogize about that. While we are shooting for the deadline in 3 days, if it is a little later that will be fine too. Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon From jono at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 01:42:15 2009 From: jono at ubuntu.com (Jono Bacon) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:42:15 -0700 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> Message-ID: <4ABC11E7.3040606@ubuntu.com> On 09/24/2009 04:13 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only found out > because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would have > been appropriate. > > No, it was posted to the fridge as the main location and I blogged it too to get it on planets. I agree about u-d-a in the future. Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon From mike.basinger at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 04:07:31 2009 From: mike.basinger at gmail.com (Mike Basinger) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:07:31 -0600 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <734141a40909242007r28eac4b1hd85ad024bf541a67@mail.gmail.com> Maybe we should redistribute the info on UDS-L sponsorship to mailing list, blogs, etc... and perhaps extend the deadline a few days if possible. Mike On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the > Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th > to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l > > Information on applying is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/Sponsorship > > -- > Jorge Castro > jorge (at) ubuntu.com > External Project Developer Relations > Canonical Ltd. > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -- Mike Basinger mike.basinger at gmail.com http://www.mikesplanet.net From nhandler at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 05:35:48 2009 From: nhandler at ubuntu.com (Nathan Handler) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:35:48 +0000 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:07 PM, A. Walton wrote: > Is there anywhere in the interface to make sure that your request > actually went through? Whenever I applied, I got Firefox's infamous "I > don't want to load this page, so here's a blank white one instead" > after hitting submit, and it'd be nice if it said somewhere e.g. "Your > application is pending review." Jorge added a note to [1] saying: Important: There is some weird bug at the end of the process where your browser will get stuck in a loop between launchpad and the summit system, however applications are still going through. If in doubt please contact JorgeCastro. Nathan [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-L/Sponsorship From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 07:18:44 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:18:44 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> Message-ID: <20090925061844.GA2127@piware.de> Scott Kitterman [2009-09-24 19:13 -0400]: > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only found out > because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would have > been appropriate. +1, I totally missed it as well. Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From sh at sourcecode.de Fri Sep 25 09:13:55 2009 From: sh at sourcecode.de (Stephan Hermann) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:13:55 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <15123-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E13A52@[75.198.0.68]> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <15123-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E13A52@[75.198.0.68]> Message-ID: <20090925101355.3f0200c7@wz-pc-010> Moins, On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:01:31 -0400 Scott Kitterman wrote: > More and more, I think packages do need a maintainer. In Main there > are teams that generally well maintained. In Universe we have a > harder problem. > > I've recently wondered if we should not carry binaries forward from > the previous release, do an in archive rebuild at the start of each > debelopment cycle once the toolchain is in place, and then > automatically remove packages that don't have a successful build > during the development cycle (and thus have no binaries). This would > ensure we don't carry unsupportable cruft into a release. > > I have long thought it was better to bring new packages in through > Debian. One reason, related to this thread, is that it ensures there > is some maintainer that is keeping the package up to date. Perhaps > we could take packages into Ubuntu with the understanding that if > they were not in Debian in one or two release cycles they would be > removed from Ubuntu (unless some special arrangement is made and > evidence of maintenance in Ubuntu is evident). I wonder if the agility of Debian matches the agility of Ubuntu? I agree that we shouldn't go for packages which are done by drive-by people, or upstream devs who want their software in Ubuntu. The pro of Ubuntu is that we are mostly a bit faster then debian with new upstream versions, especially when people from the Ubuntu universe are interested in those packages. The worst case scenario we could get: We will have the very same situation like OpenSuSE Buildservice. There are sooooo many RPMs build by people without the intention to provide better software quality for opensuse, but to have at least the bloody edge software they want (you know, new is better, faster, higher ;)) The same applies for Ubuntu and the PPAs. There are some PPAs which have a serious concern, but others (the most?) are just for "here is our newest release...just grab it from LP PPA here". Concentrating on those packages during a development cycle is very bad for the quality of Universe (and Ubuntu in general), we don't even get all the merges done in one run. Regards, \sh -- | Stephan '\sh' Hermann | OSS Dev / SysAdmin | | JID: sh at linux-server.org | http://www.sourcecode.de/ | | GPG ID: 0xC098EFA8 | http://leonov.tv/ | | FP: 3D8B 5138 0852 DA7A B83F DCCB C189 E733 C098 EFA8 | From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 10:06:00 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:06:00 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 18:07 +0200 schrieb Lo?c Martin: > The > main problem I'm afraid off when telling new contributors we'd rather > see them working on existing packages is that the sponsorship process > can get really unfriendly and obscure, unlike REVU. Having someone's > patch or diff.gz (that they spent countless hours on) sit for months > unlooked doesn't encourage anyone into contributing, and nagging on > #ubuntu-motu is nobody's idea of fun. Especially if everybody agree > those same "unmaintained" packages are the problem we would want to > solve in the first place[1]. How is the Sponsorship Process unfriendly and obscure? Can you elaborate? What you shouldn't forget is that we manage to process several hundred patches and packages every month in the sponsoring queue. I realise that there's sometimes an odd package or a long bug fix that doesn't get reviewed quickly enough, but I hope we can fix that with the #ubuntu-reviews channel. If somebody's on-call for the reviews, just pester them to get an answers for it. > Maybe having clear rules for Launchpad sponsoring would > make it more transparent too, like having fixed time limits for a bug > awaiting sponsorship to be looked at (twice a month, with set dates > maybe? or a countdown thing per bug?). Maybe you could branch http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring and patch it so that it does that count-down thing? :-) While it maybe nice to implement something like "days since ubuntu-*-sponsors was subscribed" we should not create too tough expectations. A lot of us have a lot of other stuff to do and lives apart from Ubuntu. We can't simply promise an x-hour-turn-around-time. Have a great day, Daniel From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 10:11:58 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:11:58 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <8d41218e0909230707y32e080d4gbf5221eac95f0a14@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <8d41218e0909211130n543085aej1e41dc890b23e72e@mail.gmail.com> <1253709449.2430.54.camel@bert> <8d41218e0909230707y32e080d4gbf5221eac95f0a14@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253869918.2008.51.camel@miyazaki> Am Mittwoch, den 23.09.2009, 10:07 -0400 schrieb Jordan Mantha: > I did spend a lot of time working on it, but now I see a lot of "I > read the Packaging Guide and it's just too hard" on IRC. I'm starting > to think that every time you write documentation there will always be > people who either won't bother to read it, can't understand it, or are > overwhelmed by it. Hopefully the Packaging Guide did help people out > but "packaging for Ubuntu" is such a huge body of knowledge that it's > quite difficult, as you all know, to write good documentation for it. There's only so much you can do. While it'd be great to have more contributors for the Packaging Guide, I think it's a good start for everybody getting involved already. > My guess is what's needed are primarily 3 things: > > 1) a "so you've got a PPA, now what?" guide that gets lots of > exposure. It really needs to be as close to the PPA as possible, > preferably on Launchpad itself if possible. > > 2) an "Ubuntu processes for software developers and PPA users" that is > a minimalistic, easy to read guide on what Ubuntu does and why it does > it. Things like "What is the release schedule and what freezes do I > have to worry about?", "How do I get fixes into -updates and what do I > need to do to get ready?", "I've got a new bug-fix release, what do I > do with it?", "When do I use -updates and when do I use -backports?", > "Should I do in Debian or Ubuntu?", etc. > > 3) an Ubuntu Glossary or Translation guide for this class of people. > They're not unfamiliar with Linux development as a whole, they're just > not sure exactly what the Ubuntu jargon means (SRUs, etc.) and aren't > hooked into the process like a MOTU or consistent contributor would > be. That sounds great. I agree. > What I would find most useful is to be able to use Launchpad to: > > 1) easily indicate that a bug report, bzr branch, PPA upload are > "good" so I can say "hey, we need to look at this!" > > 2) easily find a list of "good" ones so I can sponsor them I personally think we should focus on pointing out our processes clearer and getting PPA people to work within Ubuntu's processes and educate them about packaging in general. If Launchpad had that list, that'd obviously be nice too. :-) Have a great day, Daniel From mok at bioxray.au.dk Fri Sep 25 10:45:01 2009 From: mok at bioxray.au.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:45:01 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <20090925101355.3f0200c7@wz-pc-010> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <15123-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E13A52@[75.198.0.68]> <20090925101355.3f0200c7@wz-pc-010> Message-ID: <021616D9-B653-4DA9-BE5F-5DD11D8AF5C8@bioxray.au.dk> On 25/09/2009, at 10.13, Stephan Hermann wrote: > I agree that we shouldn't go for packages which are done by drive-by > people, or upstream devs who want their software in Ubuntu. I've been banging my head against the wall a few times trying to update the sponsorship process to ensure the The latter is actually the most important concequence of the former.) Unfortunately, thinking here in MOTU-land is so stiff that making changes is not really possible. I'll give my 2 bits anyway. I generally like Daniels idea and the thinking behind it. And, I generally think it's better to try to solve the problems we run across using technology, rather than throwing up your arms, saying "there's too much work already". People here are developers and software- engineers, use your skills! What is needed IMO is a tight integration of REVU with the PPAs. REVU is the friendly nexus of reviewing, it's less formal, less "official" and less intimidating than LP. If the REVUed packages were already sitting in a PPA, and packages integrated with Bazaar (because that would be the way REVU stores them), we'd have a way for people to get packages reviewed, quality increased, and still available for distribution, albeit not in the Ubuntu distribution. Having packages built in the PPA, and possibly Lintian reports available, relieves the reviewer of having to download and build the software being reviewed. Note that REVU already includes a rudimentary package checking, but only on source packages. Next, if there was some kind of usage statistics on the PPAs, the most popular, well-maintained and useful packages could be incorporated into Ubuntu. We could even pass out "stars" for "Ubuntu approved" PPAs with a high quality. I believe this process would satisfy the wishes of many contributors of "getting their package into Ubuntu.", while at the same time keeping open reviewing of new packages as an avenue for finding new devs. Note also that this process ensures that there is a maintainer of the individual packages. Cheers, Morten From scott at open-vote.org Fri Sep 25 12:08:54 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:08:54 -0700 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <4ABBF8A1.1070600@ubuntu.com> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABBF8A1.1070600@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <4ABCA4C6.7060701@open-vote.org> Jono Bacon wrote: > On 09/24/2009 03:19 PM, Michael Bienia wrote: >> On 2009-09-24 15:35:18 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote: >> >>> Just a reminder that the deadline for applying for sponsorship to the >>> Ubuntu Developer Summit is approaching. You have until September 28th >>> to submit your application to http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-l >>> >> Did I miss any announcements? I didn't see any announcement for the code >> name for the next Ubuntu release (found it by coincidence on fridge) nor >> did I see any annoucement (either on ubuntu-devel or >> ubuntu-devel-announce) that the time for requesting sponsorship for the >> next UDS has already begun. And was a little bit surprised that the >> deadline is already in 3 days. >> >> Perhaps it's just me but I don't have the time to follow all possible >> resources for news (-announce lists, planet.ubuntu.com, fridge, etc.) >> all the time so some redundancy for such important news would be nice. >> >> I get more and more the feeling that I'm not so well informed as I would >> like to be and I don't really like it. >> >> > Sorry to hear your experience. We posted to the Fridge and to Planet > about UDS and sponsorships, and also the animal name. You are right that > we should have posted to ubuntu-devel earler: I aplogize about that. > While we are shooting for the deadline in 3 days, if it is a little > later that will be fine too. > > Jono In the past I would usually get an email from Mark Shuttleworth "Announcing the Hardy Heron" or similar, with a vision and goals for the release. That didn't happen this time - is your blog post supposed to be the equivalent now? Thanks, Scott Ritchie From mdke at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 14:19:11 2009 From: mdke at ubuntu.com (Matthew East) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:19:11 +0100 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> Message-ID: <3bd91160909250619n2843fd28gade1b1c8dcde4797@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Klaus Doblmann wrote: > Maybe this behaviour can be changed - or somebody can tell me the reason > for the bugreports being marked as "private" by default? Hi Klaus - I think this should answer your question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#Apport%20crash%20reports -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF From mok at bioxray.au.dk Fri Sep 25 18:35:08 2009 From: mok at bioxray.au.dk (Morten Kjeldgaard) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:35:08 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@[70.198.103.97]> Message-ID: <701EFAD4-68CA-4334-8B86-30535CBFC68F@bioxray.au.dk> ScottK wrote: > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only > found out > because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would > have > been appropriate. The same is true for the announcement of the name of the LL series. -- Morten From bryce at canonical.com Fri Sep 25 19:08:13 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:08:13 -0700 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> Message-ID: <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 01:58:17PM +0200, Klaus Doblmann wrote: > I've been a silent follower of this list for some time now and as what > I'm about to say affects the development of Ubuntu via bugreports I've > decided to post it here - forgive me if I'm wrong. > > I've submitted a few bugreports of app-crashes in the last few days > during my testing of Karmic and before submitting the bug I always look > for duplicates - which launchpad lists. Well, it does so in _some_ cases > but not in all. > When submitting an application crash the bug report is set to be > "private" therefore if somebody else submits the same crash report, the > previous one doesn't shop up in launchpad until after you've submitted > the bug and it's automatically set to be a duplicate. > > This behaviour leads to many duplicate bugreports and quite a few hours > wasted by the community spent filing these reports. > > Maybe this behaviour can be changed - or somebody can tell me the reason > for the bugreports being marked as "private" by default? There is a chance with crash reports that the data they submit could include private data (passwords, etc.). Since these bugs are automatically filed, the reporter may not have the time (or know-how) to determine whether it includes personal info, thus the apport developers decided the safest approach was to file them all as private. You're right that this then requires triagers to do some work to review and un-privatize the bugs. In practice (with Xorg bugs, at least) I find it doesn't take me that much time to go through all the private bug reports and make them public, but admittedly I don't do it as often as I probably should. Perhaps there is way to automate some of this work with launchpadlib. Meantime, don't worry at all about filing duplicate bug reports. On the triager end, launchpad makes managing dupe bugs (relatively) cheap. Indeed, having a large number of dupes helps flag bug reports that need attention. Bryce From mdz at canonical.com Fri Sep 25 21:45:33 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:45:33 -0700 Subject: UEC installer status In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909250050i6e586e7eg755935b621b772e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090924210055.GM13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090924211756.GA4489@atomicity> <425b6c490909241422x64168e6p3efb334440e13a3@mail.gmail.com> <20090924215623.GO13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090924223751.GG4489@atomicity> <425b6c490909242345k7bfd8caeh7a0f6c07029c6ada@mail.gmail.com> <1253864064.29422.21.camel@x200> <425b6c490909250050i6e586e7eg755935b621b772e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090925204533.GT4489@atomicity> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:50:49AM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Dustin Kirkland wrote: > > > On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 23:45 -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > > > Installed node (installation similar to above, installed correctly > > > notified me that there was a cluster controller already running, and > > > default selection was 'node') > > > > > > > > > upon boot, the node came up, but the bridge device (and, thus, > > > networking) did not come up > > > 'brctl show' does not show 'br0' > > > > > > > > > eth0 exists but has no IP (dhclient is not running) > > > > > > > > > '/etc/network/interfaces' appears to have the right information > > > (eth0 is 'manual' and br0 is 'dhcp' with 'bridge_ports eth0' > > > > > > > > > manually running 'ifup br0' worked just fine (just doesn't work > > > on first boot, or upon reboot) > > > > I didn't experience this problem. Perhaps it's been fixed. Dan, can you reproduce this with the current ISO? It hasn't shown up in our tests, so it was likely either a bug in the older build you used, or it was affected by your network configuration. -- - mdz From loic.martin3 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 19:44:36 2009 From: loic.martin3 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TG/Dr2MgTWFydGlu?=) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:44:36 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> Message-ID: <4ABD0F94.1050903@gmail.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 18:07 +0200 schrieb Lo?c Martin: >> The >> main problem I'm afraid off when telling new contributors we'd rather >> see them working on existing packages is that the sponsorship process >> can get really unfriendly and obscure, unlike REVU. Having someone's >> patch or diff.gz (that they spent countless hours on) sit for months >> unlooked doesn't encourage anyone into contributing, and nagging on >> #ubuntu-motu is nobody's idea of fun. Especially if everybody agree >> those same "unmaintained" packages are the problem we would want to >> solve in the first place[1]. > > How is the Sponsorship Process unfriendly and obscure? Can you > elaborate? There's no visibility at all. Basically, your patch/diff.gz can be uploaded the same week, or go for month without being looked at. Nothing in Launchpad tells prospective contributors (or upstreams) which packages they have chances to see their work used, and which packages they should ignore because no sponsor is interested in seeing them improve. There's also no timeframe, for example no way to see if a backport request that has been tested and reported working by 2 or 3 contributors is going to be ACKed in a meaningful time. A backport or a fix to a stable release looses much point if it only gets ACKed a few weeks before the development release is delivered, because at this point most of your users have moved to the newer version (excluding LTS). How do you convince upstream it's better to work within Ubuntu (so a better release is backported, or a fix done), if they can see that only a PPA gives them the possibility to make Ubuntu better? The sponsorship process doesn't tell you what to do when a patch is roting in Launchpad. For contributors, it's just a black box. It's hard to plan your work that way. >> Maybe having clear rules for Launchpad sponsoring would >> make it more transparent too, like having fixed time limits for a bug >> awaiting sponsorship to be looked at (twice a month, with set dates >> maybe? or a countdown thing per bug?). > > Maybe you could branch http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring > and patch it so that it does that count-down thing? :-) It doesn't seem like that page would address the issue at hand, which is for prospective developers (or upstreams) trying to see if they can improve their users experience. That page wouldn't really give them any idea on which bugs fixes they can expect a sponsor to look at. It doesn't help making the sponsorship process understandable, nor would it prevent people to spend time on work that will be discarded. Thus, it wouldn't lower the perceived entry barrier for contributors, which isn't so much the technical aspect (the documentation is really helpful) as the "Could I even get my work (PPA, etc...) into Ubuntu?" question. REVU is better because you can see the queue and help reduce it, since it allows you to review other people's packages (and once the packages are in good shape they get advocated easily). On Launchpad, new contributors see nothing, and the documentation doesn't tell them what they can do to help - probably because they just can't. > While it maybe nice to implement something like "days since > ubuntu-*-sponsors was subscribed" we should not create too tough > expectations. A lot of us have a lot of other stuff to do and lives > apart from Ubuntu. We can't simply promise an x-hour-turn-around-time. I'm not sure it's so dramatic as to be counted in hours, days or weeks. We all know everybody has lives apart from Ubuntu, and I'm sorry if I sounded like I was advocating patches to be sponsored daily. However, contributors also have lives, and deciding to invest 20 or more hours on a bug is easier if you have a way to know the work can be included into Ubuntu, instead of wondering if you're adding to much to the sponsor's burden by fixing more bugs. Even if you know it's part of the game, it's still unsettling (and, given the choice, everyone would rather invest time in a useful way). For prospective contributors, that's a big entry barrier, because they don't have the past experience to tell them it's supposed to work, and that what they see isn't the rule. Upstreams would face the same problem - can we expect them to set time aside for Ubuntu (only one of their users' distributions) without a process ensuring there will be any meaning doing so? Part of the obstacle people see in contributing to Ubuntu is technical, and there's already a lot done to ease this part. The other, that makes the process look like it's too bureaucratic, is that the whole way to get a contribution put to use is a black box - submit the patch, subscribe the sponsors, and then nothing. Nothing tells you what to wait for, how long, if it's going to depend on the weather or on the price of fish, and even less what you can do to help. Lo?c From ubuntu at paul.sladen.org Sat Sep 26 01:00:45 2009 From: ubuntu at paul.sladen.org (Paul Sladen) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:00:45 +0100 (BST) Subject: Community Team Announcements (was: Sponsorship deadline) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Jorge O. Castro wrote: > a reminder that ... Occasionally I see a phrase appear in XKCD, Free Software, et al: "You're doing it wrong" Ubuntu has been doing things /mostly right/ for five years now; what works: 1. The Funky Fairy release name is Mark's, lets hear it from him.[1] 2. Use email [mailing lists] as the primary announcement forum.[2] 3. Send announcements _before_ reminders.[3] 4. Figure out the location of the conference in advance.[4] Blogs and Twitters and Planets and Forums and what-nots are probably all thrilling and exciting in their own autoerotic ways, but each one has a limited, self-selected readership and less longevity and uptime than the archive at lists.ubuntu.com. 5. "Ubuntu Does Dallas" trips off the tongue so much better than 'UDS-L'! -Paul [1] It gets picked up by the technical press better and acts as a rallying cry. [2] Asynchronous, buffered, pushed, distributed and almost universally read. [3] It helps, and ideally bump the deadline back by a week in response. [4] Less chance of a person based in Dallas applying for travel sponsorship ...to what turns out to be Dallas. -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. From bryce at canonical.com Sat Sep 26 02:03:16 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:03:16 -0700 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <20090926010316.GE32143@bryceharrington.org> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 09:43:37PM +0200, Klaus Doblmann wrote: > I've got one suggestion from a user's point of view: When one submits a > crashlog that gets marked as a duplicate due to the reasons now explained, > you obviously can't view the duplicate bugreport because it's set as private > which is confusing to the average user committing a crash report. It would > be a good idea to change the error message telling the user he can't access > the bugreport because it is set temporarily set as private due to > security-reasons until it gets reviewed. The current "you don't have > permission to access this page" (it's something along these lines) is too > non-descriptive and confusing to the average user - at least that's the way > I see it. Can you point to an example of where this has happened? I am curious if apport is doing this (which could be fixed, if so), or if it is just an oversight by a human triager (which is not fixable obviously). Bryce From caroline.ford.work at googlemail.com Fri Sep 25 22:03:48 2009 From: caroline.ford.work at googlemail.com (Caroline Ford) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:03:48 +0100 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <532AB21F-8FE1-4310-9580-18E7D6533B07@googlemail.com> I don't know if this was ever implemented but it would be nice if upstreams could be given access to private bugs of their own packages. I no longer have time to be in bug control so I have lost my access to private bugs and rely on subscribing to the packages I care about. I only get emails on open bugs- I think I would have to check on launchpad to see if any crash bugs have been submitted. Thanks Caroline (tux4kids hat on) Sent from a mobile device. On 25 Sep 2009, at 19:08, Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 01:58:17PM +0200, Klaus Doblmann wrote: >> I've been a silent follower of this list for some time now and as >> what >> I'm about to say affects the development of Ubuntu via bugreports >> I've >> decided to post it here - forgive me if I'm wrong. >> >> I've submitted a few bugreports of app-crashes in the last few days >> during my testing of Karmic and before submitting the bug I always >> look >> for duplicates - which launchpad lists. Well, it does so in _some_ >> cases >> but not in all. >> When submitting an application crash the bug report is set to be >> "private" therefore if somebody else submits the same crash report, >> the >> previous one doesn't shop up in launchpad until after you've >> submitted >> the bug and it's automatically set to be a duplicate. >> >> This behaviour leads to many duplicate bugreports and quite a few >> hours >> wasted by the community spent filing these reports. >> >> Maybe this behaviour can be changed - or somebody can tell me the >> reason >> for the bugreports being marked as "private" by default? > > There is a chance with crash reports that the data they submit could > include private data (passwords, etc.). Since these bugs are > automatically filed, the reporter may not have the time (or know- > how) to > determine whether it includes personal info, thus the apport > developers > decided the safest approach was to file them all as private. > > You're right that this then requires triagers to do some work to > review > and un-privatize the bugs. In practice (with Xorg bugs, at least) I > find it doesn't take me that much time to go through all the private > bug > reports and make them public, but admittedly I don't do it as often > as I > probably should. Perhaps there is way to automate some of this work > with launchpadlib. > > Meantime, don't worry at all about filing duplicate bug reports. On > the > triager end, launchpad makes managing dupe bugs (relatively) cheap. > Indeed, having a large number of dupes helps flag bug reports that > need > attention. > > Bryce > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel From jono at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 26 00:23:58 2009 From: jono at ubuntu.com (Jono Bacon) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:23:58 -0700 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <734141a40909242007r28eac4b1hd85ad024bf541a67@mail.gmail.com> References: <734141a40909242007r28eac4b1hd85ad024bf541a67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABD510E.9050502@ubuntu.com> On 09/24/2009 08:07 PM, Mike Basinger wrote: > Maybe we should redistribute the info on UDS-L sponsorship to mailing > list, blogs, etc... and perhaps extend the deadline a few days if > possible. > > Agreed. As I said before, we missed sending it to -devel as we normally do: this was a mistake and I agree with everyone that we should have done this. I also agree to extend the deadline some more to accommodate this. Sorry again, folks. Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon From mdke at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 26 09:41:47 2009 From: mdke at ubuntu.com (Matthew East) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:41:47 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> Just to report progress on this discussion - sabdfl has decided to adopt the name "Software Center". The comments on this thread were very helpful, as were the forum [1] and brainstorm [2] discussions/votes which showed pretty clear opinions among the community. If interested you can track the progress here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/436648 [1] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1256242 [2] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21362 -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF From mdke at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 26 10:45:55 2009 From: mdke at ubuntu.com (Matthew East) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:45:55 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090926092921.GA3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> References: <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> <20090926092921.GA3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> Message-ID: <3bd91160909260245l688fe2ffr4ddee0cd9329cf08@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Iain Lane wrote: > Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this mean > for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? I don't think there is a strong metaphor running through the application. That would be inconsistent with the idea that the name "store" had two meanings. The only thing I can see is the use of the word "Departments" on the first screen, right? It's not wholly out of place even with the change of name, but I guess it could be changed to "Categories" or similar. I'm sure the project developers will take a decision on that. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF From bryce at canonical.com Sat Sep 26 19:15:13 2009 From: bryce at canonical.com (Bryce Harrington) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:15:13 -0700 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <532AB21F-8FE1-4310-9580-18E7D6533B07@googlemail.com> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> <532AB21F-8FE1-4310-9580-18E7D6533B07@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <20090926181513.GG32143@bryceharrington.org> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:03:48PM +0100, Caroline Ford wrote: > I don't know if this was ever implemented but it would be nice if > upstreams could be given access to private bugs of their own packages. Fairly sure that is not implemented, also I'm not sure that would be feasible anyway, given the wide diversity from one upstream to the next. But I am not a LP dev... Bryce From ubuntu-devel at darkpixel.com Sat Sep 26 23:55:59 2009 From: ubuntu-devel at darkpixel.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:55:59 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> I'll second this. I've been testing Karmic for the last few weeks on my laptop which usually sits at my desk with a standard USB mouse attached. I recently grabbed the laptop so I could sit on the couch and watch a movie while working. The laptop is an ancient Presario 2100. The left mouse button didn't work. Tapping the pad didn't work. I thought the touchpad buttons were dead. After 5 or 10 minutes, I remembered this post and realized the default setting for tapping is 'off'. Lame. -A On 2009-09-25 at 16:42:54 -0700, Erik Andersen wrote: > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:42:54 -0700 > From: Erik Andersen > To: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Karmic touch pad request > > From what I've read, I sounds like karmic will not have touchpad's tap to > click enabled by default. I would like to put my vote in for having it > enabled by default and also having the touchpad disabled by default when you > are typing. (Such an option does exist in karmic) > Here's why I think it should be that way: > In windows, the default is to click when the touch pad is tapped. That means > that most likely new Ubuntu users that try karmic will think that Ubuntu (or > Linux for that matter) doesn't work properly with touch pads. > As far as experienced users, some don't like tap to click, but they are > experienced users, and are probably used to turning it off. > Also, look at the numbers on this brainstorm idea. Brainstorm > LinkAt the time of writing > this email, 88 said they supported having tap to > click on by default, 1 person said they didn't care, and 11 wanted it off by > default. That's 88 percent in favor of having tap to click on by default! > > As far as disabling the touch pad while typing, it will solve the most > common reason people turn the touch pad off. At the same time, I think it > would be pretty hard physically to use the touch pad and keyboard at the > same time and most programs wouldn't require require you to do this anyways. > On top of that, this feature could also be turned off by advanced users. So > that way, we would (hopefully) have a win-win situation. > > Thanks, > Erik > > > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel From aaron at heyaaron.com Sun Sep 27 06:01:28 2009 From: aaron at heyaaron.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:01:28 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> On 2009-09-27 at 00:15:47 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote: > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:15:47 -0400 > From: Daniel Chen > To: "Aaron C. de Bruyn" > Cc: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: Karmic touch pad request > > One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also I would be least surprised if it worked. ;) Look at both sides: Enable tap-click on the touchpad. What will it hurt? The most common complaint I've heard is accidental tapping when you rest your hands over the touchpad. Well--there's an option to turn it off. It seems to work well. Can you (or anyone else) think of any problems with turning it on? Disable tap-click on the touchpad. Users--even experienced users like me will occasionally 1) forget about the setting 2) be working on old crappy hardware and think it's broken along with forgetting about the setting. Can you think of a benefit of leaving it off? -A From seven.steps at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 05:15:47 2009 From: seven.steps at gmail.com (Daniel Chen) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:15:47 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> Message-ID: <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > button didn't work. ?Tapping the pad didn't work. ?I thought the > touchpad buttons were dead. > > After 5 or 10 minutes, I remembered this post and realized the default setting > for tapping is 'off'. ?Lame. It's not easy to set a good default for everyone. This decision certainly isn't limited to "tap to click"; there are numerous other default settings to consider (hello, PulseAudio), and a vocal minority does not necessarily constitute _the_ correct path forward. There is a fine line to tread between shipping the upstream default and shipping "what users expect" - and of course there's no good way to determine what users expect. One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also factor in ease of toggling whatever setting is at stake. The more technical/experienced the user, the less pressing it is to deliver a non-default setting. Then again, one needs to consider existing release behaviour. [0] Ed Felten gives an excellent analogy at http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/improving-governments-user-interface From rick.spencer at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 17:17:46 2009 From: rick.spencer at canonical.com (Rick Spencer) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:17:46 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> On Sat, 2009-09-26 at 22:01 -0700, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > On 2009-09-27 at 00:15:47 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote: > > Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:15:47 -0400 > > From: Daniel Chen > > To: "Aaron C. de Bruyn" > > Cc: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > > Subject: Re: Karmic touch pad request > > > > One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also > > I would be least surprised if it worked. ;) 1. I've asked a few Windows XP users about this, and none of them know about this feature. 2. I have turned this off for users who complain that their computers randomly move the cursor the around on them. This is because they have no idea what tap to click is, so they can't begin to fathom why this would happen. It happens when their palms hit the touchpad. The current "off" default seems right to me. It's past the time in the release cycle to be making changes like this. We'll release the beta as is and gauge the feedback. Cheers, Rick From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 19:43:41 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:43:41 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> References: <425b6c490909252240i45d1be26x9404ceb21e2e4a25@mail.gmail.com> <20090926193827.GJ11457@atomicity> <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 07:34:21PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > Running w3m http://localhost:8774/ to reach the frontend failed (500 server > error), both before and after registration. The frontend doesn't seem to be > working. I don't know why. I've filed > https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/437768 about > this. Can anyone confirm or deny? This was pilot error; the correct URL of course is https://localhost:8443/ (which works). I can now confirm via the web UI that the CC, SC and Walrus are all registered successfully (after manual registration). Next steps: - Confirm MANAGED-NOVLAN configuration of the NC (I don't have the appropriate virtual networking set up to test the node install yet) - Get auto-registration of CC/SC/Walrus working -- - mdz From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 19:47:03 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:47:03 +0200 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> References: <20090926014917.GA29752@atomicity> <425b6c490909252240i45d1be26x9404ceb21e2e4a25@mail.gmail.com> <20090926193827.GJ11457@atomicity> <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> Message-ID: <4ABFB327.2080201@canonical.com> Matt Zimmerman wrote: > There are some errors printed on the console during startup which I think > have to do with registration failing: > > "ERROR: you need to be on the CLC host and the CLC needs to be running" > > (screenshot attached). I didn't file a bug about this, because I assume it > is nothing new, just auto-registration still not working. This is usually because the web services are not really up when registration is tried, see my other email to Dustin. > I attempted manual registration (see attached screenshot) and it appeared to > succeed. > > Running w3m http://localhost:8774/ to reach the frontend failed (500 server > error), both before and after registration. The frontend doesn't seem to be > working. I don't know why. I've filed > https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/437768 about > this. Can anyone confirm or deny? The admin UI runs on port 8443. It appears last when the web services are started. Note that because of bug 430841, sometimes running /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cloud restart after everything was started helps. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 20:16:06 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:16:06 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> References: <20090926193827.GJ11457@atomicity> <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 07:43:40PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > Next steps: > > - Confirm MANAGED-NOVLAN configuration of the NC (I don't have the > appropriate virtual networking set up to test the node install yet) I've asked Thierry to check this. > - Get auto-registration of CC/SC/Walrus working Problems I see so far: * eucalyptus-cc is started before eucalyptus-cloud in the rc.d order. Shouldn't this be the other way around? * None of the scripts seem to wait for the service to come up before moving on, so the ordering won't help much until that's fixed The actual mechanics of registration seem to work fine, as evidenced by the fact that it works when run manually. I think that once the ordering problems are fixed, this will work OK. -- - mdz From alan at popey.com Sun Sep 27 18:15:54 2009 From: alan at popey.com (Alan Pope) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:15:54 +0100 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> Message-ID: 2009/9/27 Rick Spencer : > 1. I've asked a few Windows XP users about this, and none of them know > about this feature. Yeah, my wife didn't know about tap-to-click, now she does and she uses it all the time. > 2. I have turned this off for users who complain that their computers > randomly move the cursor the around on them. This is because they have > no idea what tap to click is, so they can't begin to fathom why this > would happen. It happens when their palms hit the touchpad. > I think you're confusing two entirely separate things. Tap to click causes stuff to get _clicked_ on when people inadvertently tap the pad when they didn't mean to. However what you seem to be describing is just accidentally tapping the touchpad area by accident, causing the mouse pointer to move. These are two separate issues. Turning off tap-to-click will _not_ resolve the issue you mention in 2) above. The way to resolve that is to switch off the touchpad, and use an external mouse. My wife used to have this issue with an older laptop. It was an HP laptop which had a hardware switch to turn off the touchpad completely. Which was useful when the OS had no software switch for it. > The current "off" default seems right to me. And it seems wrong to me, so you'll never find consensus on what it should be, there will be people on both sides. However, it's reverted from what it used to do, which is default on, so at the least its a regression bug. Cheers, Al. From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Sun Sep 27 21:33:25 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:33:25 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> References: <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090927203325.GB13423@riva.ucam.org> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:16:06PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > * eucalyptus-cc is started before eucalyptus-cloud in the rc.d order. > Shouldn't this be the other way around? I've fixed this part in bzr (I think; this sort of munging is fiddly!). > * None of the scripts seem to wait for the service to come up before moving > on, so the ordering won't help much until that's fixed They're meant to (see register_local_cloud), although they only check for the service appearing on the port. If the service doesn't actually work yet once it starts listening on the port, then (a) we'll need to figure out a reliable way to tell when it actually starts working, and (b) I think that would be a Eucalyptus bug that needs to be fixed. Or are you referring to something else? -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 21:52:52 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:52:52 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > I'm also going through the 09272009.1 iso install process today on two > dells. I'll have a more full (probably a similar to those already reported) > summary later today PST. > > Regarding the init scripts/ordering; I thought it might help to propose a > solution to the 'java services have to stop/start to be loaded' issue. > [...] > I know this probably seems a bit convoluted, but I think it may help to > simplify the auto-registration process for now. In any case, the ordering, > with auto-reg in the init scripts, should be: It is a bit convoluted, and I'm well on my way to having a (much simpler) upstart configuration to accomplish this. I intend to set up the following services: - eucalyptus (cloud, walrus, sc -- the bits which run in-process) - eucalyptus-cc (the cluster controller) - eucalyptus-nc (the node) For the first one, it seems that I need to pass "--disable-foo" if that component is not installed or should not be started. There are also --remote-foo options. What do those do? > eucalyptus-cloud > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > complete walrus registration) > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc > registration) > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) I intend to do the registration at package installation time, rather than when the service is started, so that package dependencies handle the ordering for us. The only possible snag I see with this is that we're determining the IP address to use at registration time, so if the service moves to a different host, we won't handle that automagically. I think that's probably OK for the moment. My main unresolved issue is what to do about autoregistration of the nodes. How do you suggest we handle that? -- - mdz From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Sun Sep 27 22:00:05 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:00:05 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> References: <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:52:52PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > > eucalyptus-cloud > > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > > complete walrus registration) > > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc > > registration) > > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) > > I intend to do the registration at package installation time, rather than > when the service is started, so that package dependencies handle the > ordering for us. The cloud controller doesn't actually run at package installation time when we're doing a full system install from the CD. This is why we do it at init time instead. > My main unresolved issue is what to do about autoregistration of the nodes. > How do you suggest we handle that? I thought we agreed in Dublin that nodes couldn't be auto-registered, and would require the cloud administrator to manually register them. I implemented euca_conf --discover-nodes to make that a relatively push-button process, as agreed. Has the specification changed? -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Sun Sep 27 22:14:00 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:14:00 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909271408u93dd8faofa8b56bd8884404d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271408u93dd8faofa8b56bd8884404d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927211400.GD13423@riva.ucam.org> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 02:08:01PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > That being said, I believe the opinion was that the node registration > process could be kicked off by the admin manually, after the front-end has > been in installed, whenever new nodes have come up. Registration of nodes > is idempotent, so the process could also be put into the CC init script if > partial automation is desired (CC would register whatever any nodes that are > running every time it starts). I felt that it would have some not-obviously-desirable security properties to non-interactively register any nodes that happen to advertise themselves on the local network, and so avoided this; I remember that being the consensus in Dublin as well. If we want to make the process smoother than a command-line tool, I think it probably needs to go into the web interface rather than being made wholly non-interactive. -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 22:28:56 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:28:56 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927212855.GL11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > eucalyptus-cloud euca_conf contains logic I can use to check if the cloud is running. > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > complete walrus registration) How can I check that 'walrus' is up and running? > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc > registration) Same question, how can I check that it's running? > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) euca_conf contains logic I can use to check if the CC is running. I need answers to the above in order to complete the auto-registration work. -- - mdz From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 22:31:31 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:31:31 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> References: <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> Message-ID: <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:00:05PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:52:52PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > > > eucalyptus-cloud > > > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > > > complete walrus registration) > > > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc > > > registration) > > > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > > > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) > > > > I intend to do the registration at package installation time, rather than > > when the service is started, so that package dependencies handle the > > ordering for us. > > The cloud controller doesn't actually run at package installation time > when we're doing a full system install from the CD. This is why we do it > at init time instead. I see. I guess that's our best bet at this point, then, and I'll stick with the init method. I'll just fix it to go properly in lock-step with the startup of the services so that it doesn't fail. > > My main unresolved issue is what to do about autoregistration of the nodes. > > How do you suggest we handle that? > > I thought we agreed in Dublin that nodes couldn't be auto-registered, > and would require the cloud administrator to manually register them. I > implemented euca_conf --discover-nodes to make that a relatively > push-button process, as agreed. > > Has the specification changed? I didn't remember that, but I believe you. Is this written down somewhere? -- - mdz From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 22:30:28 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:30:28 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927203325.GB13423@riva.ucam.org> References: <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <20090927203325.GB13423@riva.ucam.org> Message-ID: <20090927213028.GM11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:33:25PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:16:06PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > * eucalyptus-cc is started before eucalyptus-cloud in the rc.d order. > > Shouldn't this be the other way around? > > I've fixed this part in bzr (I think; this sort of munging is fiddly!). I think this will be obsoleted by the upstart jobs I'm writing. > > * None of the scripts seem to wait for the service to come up before moving > > on, so the ordering won't help much until that's fixed > > They're meant to (see register_local_cloud), although they only check > for the service appearing on the port. If the service doesn't actually > work yet once it starts listening on the port, then (a) we'll need to > figure out a reliable way to tell when it actually starts working, and > (b) I think that would be a Eucalyptus bug that needs to be fixed. > > Or are you referring to something else? I have this information for some services, and have asked Dan regarding the others. -- - mdz From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 22:44:41 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:44:41 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927212855.GL11543@perseus> References: <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927212855.GL11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090927214440.GO11543@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:28:55PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > > eucalyptus-cloud > > euca_conf contains logic I can use to check if the cloud is running. > > > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > > complete walrus registration) > > How can I check that 'walrus' is up and running? > > > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc > > registration) > > Same question, how can I check that it's running? > > > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) > > euca_conf contains logic I can use to check if the CC is running. > > I need answers to the above in order to complete the auto-registration work. It would also help to confirm which port numbers correspond to the above services. So far I've surmised: 8443 web admin front-end 8773 cloud API (does this also serve walrus and sc?) 8774 CC API 8775 node API -- - mdz From mdz at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 04:18:45 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:18:45 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> Message-ID: <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:31:31PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:00:05PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > > The cloud controller doesn't actually run at package installation time > > when we're doing a full system install from the CD. This is why we do it > > at init time instead. > > I see. I guess that's our best bet at this point, then, and I'll stick with > the init method. I'll just fix it to go properly in lock-step with the > startup of the services so that it doesn't fail. I've pushed a branch to: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mdz/eucalyptus/auto-registration which implements automatic registration of SC, CC and Walrus using upstart. It will (I think) enforce the necessary ordering constraints of startup and registration. I've tested it with simple "dpkg -i *.deb" kind of scenarios, and it seems to work, so I think it's ready for inclusion in the beta. It's only designed for the scenario where the CLC, CC, SC and Walrus are all on the same host, which is what I think matters most for beta as that's how the installer sets it up. I think we should be able to accommodate other configurations as well with minor tweaks now that the infrastructure is there. For example, we could relax some of the event triggers from the registration jobs, and instead just have them respawn until they succeed, with trivial changes to the upstart jobs. The only thing missing from the cluster installation is the configuration of a public IP address pool. The logic is all there, and we would just need to raise the priority of the question so that it gets asked. Alternatively, Eucalyptus could be configured to use private addresses by default if no public addresses are available. I haven't touched the node controller code yet. When Dustin and I were testing last week, it looked like the node installer was working fine, detecting the cluster controller and so on. My understanding is that it's still necessary to go back to the cluster host and run euca_conf --discover-nodes before the node will actually be live. Testing of both cluster and node would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get this uploaded in the morning once someone else has validated it, and get it onto server ISOs ASAP after that. Is there anything else missing for beta at this stage? -- - mdz From kirkland at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 05:28:48 2009 From: kirkland at canonical.com (Dustin Kirkland) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:28:48 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <4ABFB327.2080201@canonical.com> References: <20090926014917.GA29752@atomicity> <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <4ABFB327.2080201@canonical.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> There are some errors printed on the console during startup which I think >> have to do with registration failing: >> >> "ERROR: you need to be on the CLC host and the CLC needs to be running" >> >> (screenshot attached). ?I didn't file a bug about this, because I assume it >> is nothing new, just auto-registration still not working. > > This is usually because the web services are not really up when > registration is tried, see my other email to Dustin. Right, this was my change, dropping a 2>/dev/null on registration. Up until now, we've just been silently hiding the fact that registration on init is failing. We can put that back in, if necessary, but personally, I think we're sweeping the breakage under the mat by sending that error message back to /dev/null. I'll also note that "CLC host" should be more explicitly described in the error message. :-Dustin From kirkland at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 05:41:11 2009 From: kirkland at canonical.com (Dustin Kirkland) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:41:11 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > The only thing missing from the cluster installation is the configuration of > a public IP address pool. ?The logic is all there, and we would just need to > raise the priority of the question so that it gets asked. ?Alternatively, > Eucalyptus could be configured to use private addresses by default if no > public addresses are available. Hmm, just a wild idea for this one... What if we setup a couple of virtual NICs on the CC, and used DHCP to draw IPs for each of those, which would ensure that we safely receive IPs that the DHCP server doled out to us? We won't actually use these, except to stuff them into our list of public_ips. Maybe not perfect, since this lease might eventually expire, but it might get us a couple of usable IPs for a while... :-Dustin From lukehasnoname at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 21:57:13 2009 From: lukehasnoname at gmail.com (Luke L) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:57:13 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090926103452.GB3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> References: <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> <20090926092921.GA3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> <3bd91160909260245l688fe2ffr4ddee0cd9329cf08@mail.gmail.com> <20090926103452.GB3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> Message-ID: How much, if any, code is being used from Mint? IMO and from observing other user comments, the mintInstall and mintUpdate programs are one of the popular improvements in Mint over Ubuntu. ...and the improved menu *cough* Here's a blog post from one of the Mint devs about some improvements they've made in mintInstall. http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1049 On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Iain Lane wrote: > Greetings, > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:45:55AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >> >> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Iain Lane wrote: >>> >>> Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this >>> mean >>> for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? >> >> I don't think there is a strong metaphor running through the >> application. That would be inconsistent with the idea that the name >> "store" had two meanings. The only thing I can see is the use of the >> word "Departments" on the first screen, right? It's not wholly out of >> place even with the change of name, but I guess it could be changed to >> "Categories" or similar. I'm sure the project developers will take a >> decision on that. > > I remember seeing a "Shelf"* combo somewhere, but indeed I cannot find it > now so it was probably excised already. > > Regards, > Iain > > * Or something similar > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkq97kwACgkQPy0SnCC/zceVdgCg12w9LXsaI3M/arxgmR4jhvTm > aLsAn3nYvWvXMT1Mz1y9dlAEwTw0aUgK > =vsg9 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > > -- Luke L. From alex.launi at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 22:01:59 2009 From: alex.launi at gmail.com (Alex Launi) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:01:59 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> Message-ID: <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Alan Pope wrote: > However, it's reverted from what it used to do, which is default on, > so at the least its a regression bug. > change != regression. Just because it's not what it used to be, and not what you want it to be, doesn't mean it's a regression. I'm not saying it should be one way or the other, I definitely enable tap-to-click, I'm just saying that your logic here is flawed. There's a good chance it was intentionally changed because someone (upsteam, downstream, whoever) thought that it was a saner default. -- -- Alex Launi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/ae498ee2/attachment.htm From seven.steps at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 22:13:57 2009 From: seven.steps at gmail.com (Daniel Chen) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:13:57 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> [Ok, so this CC list is getting a bit insane.] On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Alex Launi wrote: > change != regression. > Just because it's not what it used to be, and not what you want it to be, > doesn't mean it's a regression. I'm not saying it should be one way or the > other, I definitely enable tap-to-click, I'm just saying that your logic > here is flawed. There's a good chance it was intentionally changed because > someone (upsteam, downstream, whoever) thought that it was a saner default. I utterly agree. It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between a _proper_ change and a desirable change. The best fixes are both proper and desirable. (Oh do I have loads to say about that WRT sound.) In the case of tap to click, I agree with Rick's decision to ship it disabled, particularly given our position in the Karmic cycle. -Dan From aaron at heyaaron.com Sun Sep 27 23:01:57 2009 From: aaron at heyaaron.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:01:57 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> > In the case of tap to click, I agree with Rick's decision to ship it > disabled, particularly given our position in the Karmic cycle. > > -Dan But *WHY*? Everyone else appears to be arguing meta crap and saying that we shouldn't just change for change sake or that change != regression. So what? That's not the argument. Several people have provided reasons why it should be enabled. No one can give me a good reason why it should be disabled by default. -A From derek at pointerstop.ca Mon Sep 28 01:05:22 2009 From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:05:22 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > On 2009-09-27 at 00:15:47 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote: >> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:15:47 -0400 >> From: Daniel Chen >> To: "Aaron C. de Bruyn" >> Cc: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com >> Subject: Re: Karmic touch pad request >> >> One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also > > I would be least surprised if it worked. ;) > > Look at both sides: > Enable tap-click on the touchpad. What will it hurt? The most common > complaint I've heard is accidental tapping when you rest your hands over > the touchpad. Well--there's an option to turn it off. Where? Sure I can do "synclient touchpadOff=1", but I'm completely stumped on doing that automagically when I plug in my USB mouse. -- derek From macoafi at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 06:23:26 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:23:26 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> Message-ID: <200909280123.26609.macoafi@gmail.com> On Sunday 27 September 2009 8:05:22 pm Derek Broughton wrote: > Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > > On 2009-09-27 at 00:15:47 -0400, Daniel Chen wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:15:47 -0400 > >> From: Daniel Chen > >> To: "Aaron C. de Bruyn" > >> Cc: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > >> Subject: Re: Karmic touch pad request > >> > >> One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also > > > > I would be least surprised if it worked. ;) > > > > Look at both sides: > > Enable tap-click on the touchpad. What will it hurt? The most common > > complaint I've heard is accidental tapping when you rest your hands over > > the touchpad. Well--there's an option to turn it off. > > Where? Sure I can do "synclient touchpadOff=1", but I'm completely stumped > on doing that automagically when I plug in my USB mouse. I actually thought the syndaemon setting to turn off the touchpad during typing was enabled by default in System -> Preferences -> Sessions. At least, I don't recall adding that daemon to startup on my own...Anyone else? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From arne.goetje at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 06:26:26 2009 From: arne.goetje at canonical.com (Arne Goetje) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:26:26 +0800 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically In-Reply-To: <20090925091508.GA5607@riva.ucam.org> References: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> <20090925091508.GA5607@riva.ucam.org> Message-ID: <4AC04902.4060505@canonical.com> Colin Watson wrote: > Can we get this into the archive as soon as possible? Is somebody > already looking at sponsoring this, or do you need (e.g.) me to do it? I need someone to sponsor it, yes. mvo seems to have his plate full in the moment... so, if you could step in, that would be great. :) >> The idea is, that the installer runs this tool if network connectivity >> is available before the packages are actually installed, parses the >> output of 'check-language-support -l TARGET_LANGUAGE_CODE' and mark >> those packages for installation. Then the user will get a fully >> localized system right from the start. > > In fact, I think the installer should just run it unconditionally, as > some of the necessary packages may be available on the CD. (The fact > that we can now include only *some* of the necessary packages on CDs > relatively easily is a big advantage of this work, as I understand it.) > I think I can implement this in pkgsel and ubiquity fairly > straightforwardly. ok, thanks. > There's one extra feature I'll need in check-language-support, though: > pkgsel has an option to install support for all languages, which is used > in all special cases. I have a branch for this but some problems with > the upgrade to bzr 2.0 mean that I apparently can't push this to > Launchpad at the moment; instead, I've attached a merge directive to > this mail which you can merge using 'bzr merge check-all.bundle'. > I have merged this into my branch, thanks. Cheers Arne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/9e447218/attachment.pgp From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 28 06:46:07 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:46:07 +0200 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically In-Reply-To: <4AC04902.4060505@canonical.com> References: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> <20090925091508.GA5607@riva.ucam.org> <4AC04902.4060505@canonical.com> Message-ID: <1254116767.2354.68.camel@bert> Am Montag, den 28.09.2009, 13:26 +0800 schrieb Arne Goetje: > Colin Watson wrote: > > Can we get this into the archive as soon as possible? Is somebody > > already looking at sponsoring this, or do you need (e.g.) me to do it? > > I need someone to sponsor it, yes. mvo seems to have his plate full in > the moment... so, if you could step in, that would be great. :) Does the bug have ubuntu-main-sponsors subscribed? Have a great day, Daniel From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 07:21:29 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:21:29 +0200 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> Message-ID: <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > I've pushed a branch to: > > https://edge.launchpad.net/~mdz/eucalyptus/auto-registration > > which implements automatic registration of SC, CC and Walrus using upstart. That's great, I'll test that right away. > I haven't touched the node controller code yet. When Dustin and I were > testing last week, it looked like the node installer was working fine, > detecting the cluster controller and so on. My understanding is that it's > still necessary to go back to the cluster host and run euca_conf > --discover-nodes before the node will actually be live. That's what my testing shows, yes. > Testing of both cluster and node would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to > get this uploaded in the morning once someone else has validated it, and get > it onto server ISOs ASAP after that. I'm on it. > Is there anything else missing for beta at this stage? I can't think of anything besides the public IP pool. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From arne.goetje at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 07:27:24 2009 From: arne.goetje at canonical.com (Arne Goetje) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:27:24 +0800 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically In-Reply-To: <1254116767.2354.68.camel@bert> References: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> <20090925091508.GA5607@riva.ucam.org> <4AC04902.4060505@canonical.com> <1254116767.2354.68.camel@bert> Message-ID: <4AC0574C.2080904@canonical.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > Am Montag, den 28.09.2009, 13:26 +0800 schrieb Arne Goetje: >> Colin Watson wrote: >>> Can we get this into the archive as soon as possible? Is somebody >>> already looking at sponsoring this, or do you need (e.g.) me to do it? >> I need someone to sponsor it, yes. mvo seems to have his plate full in >> the moment... so, if you could step in, that would be great. :) > > Does the bug have ubuntu-main-sponsors subscribed? Now it has. :) Cheers Arne -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/76f0e6a1/attachment.pgp From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 09:10:30 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:10:30 +0200 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> Thierry Carrez wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> I've pushed a branch to: >> >> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mdz/eucalyptus/auto-registration >> >> which implements automatic registration of SC, CC and Walrus using upstart. > > That's great, I'll test that right away. So I did a UEC install / cluster mode from 20090927.1 and confirmed that the components were not registered. I then upgraded to eucalyptus packages built from the auto-registration branch. Just after the packages were installed, the components were still not registered, but a few dozens of seconds later everything was in place automatically. The only modification I did on the cluster was to add a VNET_PUBLICIPS= line with a valid IP address to /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf, then sudo service eucalyptus restart >> Testing of both cluster and node would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to >> get this uploaded in the morning once someone else has validated it, and get >> it onto server ISOs ASAP after that. > > I'm on it. Did the UEC install / node mode from 20090927.1, no problem. Once the node is up, I did on the front-end: $ sudo euca_conf --discover-nodes But the node didn't start to show sync in /var/log/eucalyptus/nc.log Looking back at the cluster controller there is an issue which may be related to registration: Repeated in httpd-cc_error_log: [Mon Sep 28 10:08:53 2009] [notice] child pid 4416 exit signal Segmentation fault (11) Once, in /var/log/eucalyptus/axis2c.log: [Mon Sep 28 10:06:20 2009] [error] http_transport_utils.c(2557) Service or operation not found I'm investigating that. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From tfheen at err.no Mon Sep 28 10:14:36 2009 From: tfheen at err.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:14:36 +0200 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: (Alan Pope's message of "Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:15:54 +0100") References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> Message-ID: <87r5trmnwj.fsf@qurzaw.linpro.no> ]] Alan Pope | 2009/9/27 Rick Spencer : | > 2. I have turned this off for users who complain that their computers | > randomly move the cursor the around on them. This is because they have | > no idea what tap to click is, so they can't begin to fathom why this | > would happen. It happens when their palms hit the touchpad. | | I think you're confusing two entirely separate things. Tap to click | causes stuff to get _clicked_ on when people inadvertently tap the pad | when they didn't mean to. However what you seem to be describing is | just accidentally tapping the touchpad area by accident, causing the | mouse pointer to move. These are two separate issues. When rick was writing ?cursor?, I think he was referring to applications with a text entry cursor such as gedit where the pointer will indeed move about if you accidentially hit the touchpad and thereby generate a click. Having the mouse pointer move about is much less of a problem as it doesn't interfere with text entry, except if you are using focus-follows-mouse and move the pointer off the window. -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are From hitoht at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 10:23:47 2009 From: hitoht at gmail.com (hitoht at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:23:47 +0900 Subject: klogd + dd =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= why? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87d45bh17g.wl%hitoht@gmail.com> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:39:29 -0400, wrote: > Excuse me; can anyone explain why it's necessary to send kernel log > messages through dd, rather than letting klogd pick them up directly? > Debian doesn't do it that way. > > Other than "it lets us run it as user klogd", which isn't a reason in > and of itself. IMHO, klogd must read /proc/kmsg, so klogd has root priviledge. $ ls -altr /proc/kmsg -r-------- 1 root root 0 2009-09-28 10:06 /proc/kmsg and, accessing /proc/kmsg are same as "calling sys_syslog()", it requires highly capability(like root), we cant drop root priviledge from /proc/kmsg reader. > Why is klogd a particular security issue? What possible benefit is > there to running a dd process as root instead of simply running klogd > as root, or having klogd start as root and then drop privileges? And, sysklogd's logging code has some buffer control and some complex interchanges, it has something *unknown* security threats (like CVE-2000-0867[1,2]), this is risk to be avoided. As we know, dd is very simple and secure than any logging daemons (no string parser, fixed buffering...). dd-ing model could cast-out untrustworthy loggers from root's special power. [1] http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2000-0867 [2] http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/1694/discuss From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 11:25:42 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:25:42 +0200 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AC08F26.4070203@canonical.com> Thierry Carrez wrote: > Looking back at the cluster controller there is an issue which may be > related to registration: > > Repeated in httpd-cc_error_log: > [Mon Sep 28 10:08:53 2009] [notice] child pid 4416 exit signal > Segmentation fault (11) > > Once, in /var/log/eucalyptus/axis2c.log: > [Mon Sep 28 10:06:20 2009] [error] http_transport_utils.c(2557) Service > or operation not found > > I'm investigating that. This is apparently triggered by the upstart-ification of the eucalyptus-cc initscript. If you save a copy of /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cc before upgrading to the autoregister branch, you can use that script to start eucalyptus-cc without triggering those errors. Looking at the upstart job, it seems to start apache2 with the same configuration... I tried to push up apache and axis2 loglevels to get more information, without so much success. /var/log/eucalyptus/axis2c.log show in the case of upstart: [debug] apache2_worker.c(238) http://localhost:8774/axis2/services/ [debug] apache2_worker.c(280) Client HTTP version HTTP/1.0 [debug] rest_disp.c(114) Checking for service using target endpoint address : http://localhost:8774/axis2/services/ [error] http_transport_utils.c(2557) Service or operation not found while in the case of the init.d script they never query services at http://localhost:8774/axis2/services/ (always services/EucalyptusGL or services/EucalyptusCC), and this error is not triggered. The http_transport_utils.c error appears only once in the logs, while the apache child segfault appears every 8 seconds or so. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 14:06:59 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:06:59 +0200 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <4AC08F26.4070203@canonical.com> References: <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> <4AC08F26.4070203@canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AC0B4F3.8000301@canonical.com> Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thierry Carrez wrote: >> Looking back at the cluster controller there is an issue which may be >> related to registration: >> >> Repeated in httpd-cc_error_log: >> [Mon Sep 28 10:08:53 2009] [notice] child pid 4416 exit signal >> Segmentation fault (11) >> >> Once, in /var/log/eucalyptus/axis2c.log: >> [Mon Sep 28 10:06:20 2009] [error] http_transport_utils.c(2557) Service >> or operation not found >> >> I'm investigating that. > > This is apparently triggered by the upstart-ification of the > eucalyptus-cc initscript. If you save a copy of > /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cc before upgrading to the autoregister branch, > you can use that script to start eucalyptus-cc without triggering those > errors. I think I found where it comes from. The /etc/init/eucalyptus-cc.conf upstart job doesn't force LD_LIBRARY_PATH like the /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cc init script does. http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AXIS2C-612 is a similar bug. http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TUSCANY-499 relates that the cryptic error message (that we get in axis2c.log if setting Axis2LogLevel to debug) is generally symptomatic of SCA/SCO sharedlibs not being on the path. I'm trying to confirm that. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From rick.spencer at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 14:25:01 2009 From: rick.spencer at canonical.com (Rick Spencer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:25:01 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <87r5trmnwj.fsf@qurzaw.linpro.no> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <87r5trmnwj.fsf@qurzaw.linpro.no> Message-ID: <1254144301.2366.0.camel@rick-karmic-eee> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 11:14 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Alan Pope > When rick was writing ?cursor?, I think he was referring to applications > with a text entry cursor such as gedit where the pointer will indeed > move about if you accidentially hit the touchpad and thereby generate a > click. Having the mouse pointer move about is much less of a problem as > it doesn't interfere with text entry, except if you are using > focus-follows-mouse and move the pointer off the window. > Yes, I was referring to the text insertion cursor. Thank you for the clarification. Cheers, Rick From rick.spencer at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 14:30:41 2009 From: rick.spencer at canonical.com (Rick Spencer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:30:41 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 15:01 -0700, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > e shouldn't just change for change sake or that change != regression. So what? That's not the argument. > > Several people have provided reasons why it should be enabled. > No one can give me a good reason why it should be disabled by default. As I said, many users find it confusing and hard to use. Users who like it, tell me that *all* users like it. Users who don't like it tell me that *no* users like it. Both groups tell me that for the insane users on the other side of the equation they can easily change the setting. Not that we are past beta freeze, it is time to take our best guess and ship the beta and see what kind of feedback comes in from a larger group of users. Cheers, Rick From mdz at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 15:00:57 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:00:57 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> References: <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <20090927210005.GC13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927213131.GN11543@perseus> <20090928031845.GB11526@perseus> <4AC055E9.6040600@canonical.com> <4AC06F76.8000809@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090928140057.GA2389@perseus> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:10:30AM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Matt Zimmerman wrote: > >> I've pushed a branch to: > >> > >> https://edge.launchpad.net/~mdz/eucalyptus/auto-registration > >> > >> which implements automatic registration of SC, CC and Walrus using upstart. > > > > That's great, I'll test that right away. > > So I did a UEC install / cluster mode from 20090927.1 and confirmed that > the components were not registered. I then upgraded to eucalyptus > packages built from the auto-registration branch. Just after the > packages were installed, the components were still not registered, but a > few dozens of seconds later everything was in place automatically. That's expected. It waits for all of the services to be fully up and responding and then attempts registration asynchronously (which takes some time itself). Due to the fact that the SC, Walrus and Cloud all run in the same process, it needs to be restarted each time one of the components is installed or removed. If that were changed, the installation would run much faster, but I think it's good enough for beta. > The only modification I did on the cluster was to add a VNET_PUBLICIPS= > line with a valid IP address to /etc/eucalyptus/eucalyptus.conf, then > > sudo service eucalyptus restart Could you test doing this using dpkg-reconfigure? > >> Testing of both cluster and node would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to > >> get this uploaded in the morning once someone else has validated it, and get > >> it onto server ISOs ASAP after that. > > > > I'm on it. > > Did the UEC install / node mode from 20090927.1, no problem. Once the > node is up, I did on the front-end: > > $ sudo euca_conf --discover-nodes > > But the node didn't start to show sync in /var/log/eucalyptus/nc.log Has this ever worked previously? > Looking back at the cluster controller there is an issue which may be > related to registration: > > Repeated in httpd-cc_error_log: > [Mon Sep 28 10:08:53 2009] [notice] child pid 4416 exit signal > Segmentation fault (11) I noticed this once as well. > Once, in /var/log/eucalyptus/axis2c.log: > [Mon Sep 28 10:06:20 2009] [error] http_transport_utils.c(2557) Service > or operation not found > > I'm investigating that. I haven't noticed this (but haven't looked for it either). -- - mdz From d.c.beekman.devel at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 13:58:21 2009 From: d.c.beekman.devel at gmail.com (Dennis Beekman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:58:21 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes Message-ID: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer and i will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to follow the changes made to them. However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this issue on any forums. The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login screen has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich installed. but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or so it seems. when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a console i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on not :-( Will this be a permanent change in Ubuntu or will the function to change gdm themes be added later in the development process ? If this is added i would need to start searching for an alternate distro to use at this location as the gdm theme is required... If one of the developers could kindly mail me the answer to this question it would help me greatly and would grant me a little extra time to find a alternative. Kind Regards, Dennis From dean at deansas.org Mon Sep 28 13:17:30 2009 From: dean at deansas.org (Dean Sas) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:17:30 +0100 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58a7c45b0909280517v67b7861bp5552bfe6e678fca8@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 05:15, Daniel Chen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn > wrote: >> button didn't work. ?Tapping the pad didn't work. ?I thought the >> touchpad buttons were dead. >> >> After 5 or 10 minutes, I remembered this post and realized the default setting >> for tapping is 'off'. ?Lame. > > It's not easy to set a good default for everyone. This decision > certainly isn't limited to "tap to click"; there are numerous other > default settings to consider (hello, PulseAudio), and a vocal minority > does not necessarily constitute _the_ correct path forward. There is a > fine line to tread between shipping the upstream default and shipping > "what users expect" - and of course there's no good way to determine > what users expect. > > One metric that I use is the principle of least surprise. I also > factor in ease of toggling whatever setting is at stake. The more > technical/experienced the user, the less pressing it is to deliver a > non-default setting. I was very surprised when it stopped working in Karmic. I immediately thought it was some kind of hardware/xorg bug and went to launchpad to file a bug about it. Having this turned off makes using a touchpad much slower to use as I constantly have to twist my wrist or move my entire hand to click. From mdz at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 15:22:23 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:22:23 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909271408u93dd8faofa8b56bd8884404d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271408u93dd8faofa8b56bd8884404d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090928142223.GF2389@perseus> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 02:08:01PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > Another snag may be that, unless my understanding is incorrect, the cloud > service is not running at installation time, which will prevent the ability > to register. Is this still true? I'm not sure how it was before, but this is a non-issue with my auto-registration branch. > That being said, I believe the opinion was that the node registration > process could be kicked off by the admin manually, after the front-end has > been in installed, whenever new nodes have come up. Registration of nodes > is idempotent, so the process could also be put into the CC init script if > partial automation is desired (CC would register whatever any nodes that are > running every time it starts). Colin feels the same way, so I think that's the way we'll go for now. The question is: does manual node registration work correctly with the latest Karmic bits? How about with my auto-registration branch? -- - mdz From daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 28 15:45:23 2009 From: daniel.holbach at ubuntu.com (Daniel Holbach) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:45:23 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <4ABD0F94.1050903@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> <4ABD0F94.1050903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> Am Freitag, den 25.09.2009, 20:44 +0200 schrieb Lo?c Martin: > There's no visibility at all. Basically, your patch/diff.gz can be > uploaded the same week, or go for month without being looked at. Nothing > in Launchpad tells prospective contributors (or upstreams) which > packages they have chances to see their work used, and which packages > they should ignore because no sponsor is interested in seeing them improve. > > There's also no timeframe, for example no way to see if a backport > request that has been tested and reported working by 2 or 3 contributors > is going to be ACKed in a meaningful time. A backport or a fix to a > stable release looses much point if it only gets ACKed a few weeks > before the development release is delivered, because at this point most > of your users have moved to the newer version (excluding LTS). How do > you convince upstream it's better to work within Ubuntu (so a better > release is backported, or a fix done), if they can see that only a PPA > gives them the possibility to make Ubuntu better? > > The sponsorship process doesn't tell you what to do when a patch is > roting in Launchpad. For contributors, it's just a black box. It's hard > to plan your work that way. Do you think the idea of IRC reviewers that can be pinged will help with that? If not, what do you think would help? The problem with "a long list of stuff that need to be done" is that people naturally will pick what interests them, what they work on generally anyway or what they have time for right now. Which other ideas do you have to fix it? Have a great day, Daniel From rick.spencer at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 16:15:14 2009 From: rick.spencer at canonical.com (Rick Spencer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:15:14 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <1254150914.2444.1.camel@rick-karmic> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 08:04 -0700, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > > I'm not too familiar with the freeze process, but is this something that > can get slipped in after this beta freeze but before the next beta release? Yes. One of the reasons to ship the beta is to get wide user feedback. If we get conclusive feedback, we will certainly respond to it. Cheers, Rick From rick.spencer at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 16:20:25 2009 From: rick.spencer at canonical.com (Rick Spencer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:20:25 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <1254151225.2444.5.camel@rick-karmic> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 08:04 -0700, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > reason why it should not be that way, and most of the arguments seem > to be > centered around not wanting to accidentally click or move the mouse > while > typing. Everyone seems to forget the 'disable touchpad while typing' > option > 3 seconds after I mention it. I think this is probably the best possible option. And we should change the default to this after the beta if it is low risk and we get user feedback concerning the current setting. Cheers, Rick From aaron at heyaaron.com Mon Sep 28 16:04:23 2009 From: aaron at heyaaron.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:04:23 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> Message-ID: <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> > As I said, many users find it confusing and hard to use. Users who like > it, tell me that *all* users like it. Users who don't like it tell me With all due respect Rick, I never said that all users like it, but I did presentet a case why I thought it should be enabled by default along with the 'disable touchpad while typing'. No one has provided a concrete reason why it should not be that way, and most of the arguments seem to be centered around not wanting to accidentally click or move the mouse while typing. Everyone seems to forget the 'disable touchpad while typing' option 3 seconds after I mention it. I remember what it was like before the 'disable touch...' option. To this day out of habit, I tap the hardware disable switch before I start typing. I *know* how annoying it used to be. But for the last week or so I have kept my hardware switch enabled, and I haven't had a single instance of accidentally clicking or moving the mouse. So once again, can anyone think of a good reason to keep tap to click disabled? > Not that we are past beta freeze, it is time to take our best guess and > ship the beta and see what kind of feedback comes in from a larger group > of users. I'm not too familiar with the freeze process, but is this something that can get slipped in after this beta freeze but before the next beta release? -A From aaron at heyaaron.com Mon Sep 28 16:17:43 2009 From: aaron at heyaaron.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:17:43 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> Message-ID: <20090928151743.GG4737@chrysalis> > Where? Sure I can do "synclient touchpadOff=1", but I'm completely stumped > on doing that automagically when I plug in my USB mouse. This has nothing to do with plugging in an external mouse. This is about the touchpad built into laptops. Clicking and pointing with 'normal'/USB mice should not be affected. -A From ienorand at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 16:17:34 2009 From: ienorand at gmail.com (Arand Nash) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:17:34 +0100 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> Message-ID: <4AC0D38E.7080200@gmail.com> Rick Spencer wrote: > > As I said, many users find it confusing and hard to use. Users who like > it, tell me that *all* users like it. Users who don't like it tell me > that *no* users like it. Both groups tell me that for the insane users > on the other side of the equation they can easily change the setting. > > Not that we are past beta freeze, it is time to take our best guess and > ship the beta and see what kind of feedback comes in from a larger group > of users. > > Cheers, Rick > What I feel is the most pressing point here is that tap to click on by default, is more or less the de-facto standard out there: This is Expected Behaviour on almost all laptops, regardless whether one likes/uses/don't use/hates it or not. Hence the setting with "least surprise" will be on-by-default. As I think has already been mentioned, TTC on, will result in one portion of the userbase being annoyed, but they will likely know the reason for it. TTC off on the other hand, will result in the other part of the userbase being annoyed, but more importantly, many of whom will not realise that the setting to enable it exists, and hence they'll conclude that ubuntu is unable to make their touchpad work properly. The only reason for TTC off is to avoid unwanted clicks, and granted, this is also a matter of surprise for the user, but shouldn't we rather try to fix this, than instead just shifting this over to a problem for another set of users? There are ways to avoid unwantes clicks, whereas I think it'll be much harder to explain to all users why "ubuntu has broken their touchpad". Do we really want to distinguish ourselves from the majority by disabling expected and commonly (not necesarrily by the majority) used features? - Arand From eskaer_spamsink at ngs.ru Mon Sep 28 16:26:31 2009 From: eskaer_spamsink at ngs.ru (SSK) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:26:31 +0700 Subject: Russian locale alternative month names Message-ID: <60C0888DA90E444BA078472508DB93AC@Sandy> Current Russian locale in Ubuntu doesn't support alternative month names, which leads to date incorrect format in most desktop applications. Who's responsible for maintaining it and whom should I contact to get this resolved? From hyperair at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:02:13 2009 From: hyperair at gmail.com (Chow Loong Jin) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:02:13 +0800 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC0DE05.20907@gmail.com> On Monday 28,September,2009 08:58 PM, Dennis Beekman wrote: > I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer and i > will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to follow the > changes made to them. > > However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this issue on > any forums. > The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login screen > has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... > > Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich installed. > but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or so it > seems. > when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a console > i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on not :-( > > Will this be a permanent change in Ubuntu or will the function to change > gdm themes be added later in the development process ? > If this is added i would need to start searching for an alternate distro > to use at this location as the gdm theme is required... > > If one of the developers could kindly mail me the answer to this > question it would help me greatly and would grant me a little extra time > to find a alternative. > > Kind Regards, > > Dennis > Hi Dennis, Digging around my computer has led me to fine a package called "ubuntu-xsplash-artwork", which contains the following files: /usr /usr/share /usr/share/doc /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-xsplash-artwork /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-xsplash-artwork/AUTHORS /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-xsplash-artwork/copyright /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-xsplash-artwork/changelog.Debian.gz /usr/share/images /usr/share/images/xsplash /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_1024x768.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_1280x1024.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_1440x900.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_1680x1050.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_1920x1200.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_800x600.jpg /usr/share/images/xsplash/logo_large.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/logo_medium.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/logo_small.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/logo_xtra_large.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/throbber_large.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/throbber_medium.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/throbber_small.png /usr/share/images/xsplash/throbber_xtra-large.png I think if you replace these files, you should be able to customize xsplash's appearance to your needs. I'm not sure about customizing the new GDM though. -- Kind regards, Chow Loong Jin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 261 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/0d399add/attachment.pgp From macoafi at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:08:49 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:08:49 -0400 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> On Monday 28 September 2009 8:58:21 am Dennis Beekman wrote: > I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer and i > will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to follow the > changes made to them. > > However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this issue on > any forums. > The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login screen > has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... > > Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich installed. > but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or so it > seems. > when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a console > i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on not :-( Modifying gdm2 themes isn't quite the same as the old way. I've never done it, but IIRC, you have to "compile" the theme. Unfortunately, my Google-fu is failing me. I can't find a howto for creating gdm2 themes. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From devidfil at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:54:42 2009 From: devidfil at gmail.com (Devid Antonio Filoni) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:54:42 +0200 Subject: Call for testing: video/audio calls (MSN) Message-ID: <64a208ca0909280954s23f7768ete402454bf2c520fd@mail.gmail.com> Hi, the new telepathy-butterfly (MSN in Empathy) version (0.5.1) adds a long-wanted feature: audio and video calls support. In order to get the new version in Ubuntu Karmic, the package requires a Feature Freeze exception [1] and we want your feedback to know if A/V support works fine or not in order to take a decision about the upload of the new package in Ubuntu 9.10. Some informations/warnings about the feature: - You can only send invites, you still cannot receive them ATM. - If your contact uses a new version of MSN in order to get A/V calls working you would need to configure your router to forward some ports (6890 to 6900). This is caused by a bug in the *official client* which will be hopefully fixed in the next version. If you want to test the new telepathy-butterfly package you can install it using the telepathy PPA [2]. You will also need to install python-gst0.10 and python-farsight packages. Please report your feedback here or in the FFe bug [1]. Thanks, Devid Antonio Filoni [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-butterfly/+bug/437828 [2] https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/ppa From a.starr.b at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 18:02:26 2009 From: a.starr.b at gmail.com (Andrew SB) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:02:26 -0400 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Monday 28 September 2009 8:58:21 am Dennis Beekman wrote: >> I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer and i >> will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to follow the >> changes made to them. >> >> However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this issue on >> any forums. >> The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login screen >> has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... >> >> Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich installed. >> but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or so it >> seems. >> when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a console >> i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on not :-( > > Modifying gdm2 themes isn't quite the same as the old way. ?I've never done > it, but IIRC, you have to "compile" the theme. ?Unfortunately, my Google-fu is > failing me. I can't find a howto for creating gdm2 themes. I find it unfortunate that the ability to easily customize your GDM theme wasn't ported to the new GDM, but one nice thing in theory is that GDM now uses standard GTK+ themes instead of it's own specialized themes. In order to change the theme, you change the GTK+ theme (or in your case, background) for the gdm user. You should be able to do that by launching gnome-appearance-properties as the gdm user with: gksudo -u gdm dbus-launch gnome-appearance-properties - Andrew From moky.math at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:07:47 2009 From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:07:47 +0200 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <4AC0DF53.3050303@gmail.com> > But for the last week or so I have kept my hardware switch enabled, and I > haven't had a single instance of accidentally clicking or moving the mouse. > When I began with my laptop, I did had many instances of accidentally clicking or moving the mouse. We don't use our computer the same way, my hand is larger than your, my touchpad is bigger ... I dont't know. The *fact* is that we have different experiences. > So once again, can anyone think of a good reason to keep tap to click disabled? > See my first answer. So, once again, there are people who like, people who don't like and we will probably never know the exact percentage of the population who enter in each category. One has to make a choice; Ubuntu did a choice. Wait and see for a larger feedback. Have a good afternoon Laurent From philsf79 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 17:55:24 2009 From: philsf79 at gmail.com (Felipe Figueiredo) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:55:24 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <1254151225.2444.5.camel@rick-karmic> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> <1254151225.2444.5.camel@rick-karmic> Message-ID: <1254156924.3821.14.camel@felipe-desktop> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 08:20 -0700, Rick Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 08:04 -0700, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > > reason why it should not be that way, and most of the arguments seem > > to be > > centered around not wanting to accidentally click or move the mouse > > while > > typing. Everyone seems to forget the 'disable touchpad while typing' > > option > > 3 seconds after I mention it. > I think this is probably the best possible option. And we should change > the default to this after the beta if it is low risk and we get user > feedback concerning the current setting. Where will the feedback be tracked? I presume a bug report will soon get too crouded to be useful. Hopefully I'm wrong about this. regards FF From pgraner at canonical.com Mon Sep 28 20:16:40 2009 From: pgraner at canonical.com (Pete Graner) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:16:40 -0500 Subject: Default Profile setting in Pulse Audio Configuration Karmic Alpha6 In-Reply-To: <20090927075954.3013.90095.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> References: <20090927075954.3013.90095.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AC10B98.3050900@canonical.com> On 09/27/2009 02:59 AM, bwallum wrote: > Bugs are being reported due to default settings not enabling > microphones. Could we set the default Profile as "Analog Stereo Duplex" > in Sound Preferences, tab Hardware AND Volume Control, tab > Configuration? > > There may be some inconsistency in the placing of Profile control. There > may also be an issue with mic1 not working (although mic2 does) even > with the above default Profile suggestion. This is best sent to the ubuntu-devel list (now cc'd). Thanks ~pete -- Pete Graner Manager Ubuntu Kernel Team Canonical Ltd. http://www.canonical.com/ From farrisg at cc.mala.bc.ca Mon Sep 28 19:17:59 2009 From: farrisg at cc.mala.bc.ca (George Farris) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:17:59 -0700 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1254161879.25174.26.camel@falcon.capitan.mala.bc.ca> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 18:31 +0200, Kenneth Wimer wrote: > On Monday 28 September 2009 06:08:49 pm Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > > On Monday 28 September 2009 8:58:21 am Dennis Beekman wrote: > > > I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer > and i > > > will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to > follow the > > > changes made to them. > > > > > > However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this > issue on > > > any forums. > > > The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login > screen > > > has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... > > > > > > Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich > installed. > > > but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or > so it > > > seems. > > > when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a > console > > > i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on > not :-( > > > > Modifying gdm2 themes isn't quite the same as the old way. I've > never done > > it, but IIRC, you have to "compile" the theme. Unfortunately, my > Google-fu > > is failing me. I can't find a howto for creating gdm2 themes. > > > > GDM is now a normal gnome session, so it takes a gtk, metacity, icon > and cursor theme like a normal desktop does. You can set them by > defining the gconf keys for the use gdm. Sure would be nice if it had rounded corners to the main window, would make it look much nicer, as it stands it's ugly as all get out. The Jaunty login screen graphics really rocks. Cheers From moky.math at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 19:59:42 2009 From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:59:42 +0200 Subject: Call for testing: video/audio calls (MSN) In-Reply-To: <64a208ca0909280954s23f7768ete402454bf2c520fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <64a208ca0909280954s23f7768ete402454bf2c520fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC1079E.1010601@gmail.com> > If you want to test the new telepathy-butterfly package you can > install it using the telepathy PPA [2]. You will also need to install > python-gst0.10 and python-farsight packages. > I would like to help, but .... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/435262 this is critical for me. Btw, if you're using KDE, please feel free to confirm or add details on that crash. Have a good night Laurent From loic.martin3 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 19:43:49 2009 From: loic.martin3 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TG/Dr2MgTWFydGlu?=) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:43:49 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> <4ABD0F94.1050903@gmail.com> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> Message-ID: <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> Daniel Holbach wrote: > Am Freitag, den 25.09.2009, 20:44 +0200 schrieb Lo?c Martin: >> There's no visibility at all. Basically, your patch/diff.gz can be >> uploaded the same week, or go for month without being looked at. Nothing >> in Launchpad tells prospective contributors (or upstreams) which >> packages they have chances to see their work used, and which packages >> they should ignore because no sponsor is interested in seeing them improve. >> >> There's also no timeframe, for example no way to see if a backport >> request that has been tested and reported working by 2 or 3 contributors >> is going to be ACKed in a meaningful time. A backport or a fix to a >> stable release looses much point if it only gets ACKed a few weeks >> before the development release is delivered, because at this point most >> of your users have moved to the newer version (excluding LTS). How do >> you convince upstream it's better to work within Ubuntu (so a better >> release is backported, or a fix done), if they can see that only a PPA >> gives them the possibility to make Ubuntu better? >> >> The sponsorship process doesn't tell you what to do when a patch is >> roting in Launchpad. For contributors, it's just a black box. It's hard >> to plan your work that way. > > Do you think the idea of IRC reviewers that can be pinged will help with > that? If not, what do you think would help? Don't IRC reviewers address a different issue? They're probably good for when you need help in fixing a bug, and for teaching, but how do they deal with the sponsoring issue? Even if they were also a place to ask for it, that's just adding another layer to the sponsoring process, and discriminates against new contributors, who don't use IRC (and asking upstream to find someone to nag on IRC each time there's a patch, a backport or a new release?) Where does it helps for people that have been maintaining a package in Ubuntu for a few releases already (only name in the changelog), and suddenly nobody has the time to upload the new version anymore? How long till they give up? Actually, nothing in the documentation tells you there's an added step after hitting "Confirmed" and subscribing the relevant sponsors. However, it's often necessary, and since being obnoxious on #ubuntu-motu is counterproductive, you progressively learn to pick up the bugs you think, and not to much, because that way you can leave a few days between asking on the channel. Just as an illutration of what I'm talking about, gnucash crashes for a lot of users in Hardy/Intrepid/Jaunty (and Debian :P) because of a faulty patch that got reverted upstream long ago (I only remembered that one because a backport request is on atm). It's a trivial job to revert the patch and ask for an SRU; the sponsoring part is where it hurts. Fact is, only time I did an SRU took at least two emails to #ubuntu-motu, and much nagging - there's no other word, sorry - on IRC, for a debian/control one-word-change. For gnucash, I already had some sponsor requests for other packages on (and some planned), and not burning all the vessels on a problem where the users that could test -proposed have probably given up already is something you have to learn quickly if you want some of your work uploaded in Ubuntu. So no SRU for gnucash, even though the actual work for submitting the request was never the problem in the first place (work was done for Karmic anyway). (Same for xvid - requesting the sync with pkg-multimedia would be suicidal when nobody's been interested in an improved package, even with the work done already.) > The problem with "a long list of stuff that need to be done" is that > people naturally will pick what interests them, what they work on > generally anyway or what they have time for right now. > > Which other ideas do you have to fix it? Having other ideas won't do much, eventually I'm not a sponsor and the thread looks like a monologue already. Better if it were coming from the ones that do the sponsoring itself, since ideas coming out of the blue can't get much support. I don't sponsor, and for sure don't understand enough of it. My posts where only to give you an idea of what happens on the side of the fence I'm in, if it could help. Please don't take it as a rant, if it was one I'd have folded up and unsubscribed from the bugs already. Contributors have to either give up, or learn to pick their battles, which limits what little work we can do. It would be nice if people on -devel stopped putting the blame on REVU though, especially when, as a matter of fact, what they're asking for in words isn't welcomed as much as they would paint it... XP Lo?c From zareason at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 19:24:13 2009 From: zareason at gmail.com (ZaReason) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:24:13 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Daniel Chen wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn > wrote: > > button didn't work. ?Tapping the pad didn't work. ?I thought the > > touchpad buttons were dead. > > > > After 5 or 10 minutes, I remembered this post and realized the default setting > > for tapping is 'off'. ?Lame. > > It's not easy to set a good default for everyone. This decision > certainly isn't limited to "tap to click"; there are numerous other > default settings to consider (hello, PulseAudio), and a vocal minority > does not necessarily constitute _the_ correct path forward. There is a > fine line to tread between shipping the upstream default and shipping > "what users expect" - and of course there's no good way to determine > what users expect. Sure there is. Go around and test to see if other laptops are shipped with tap-to-click enabled by default. I bet you will find every single laptop sold in stores today to have tap-to-click enabled by default. This is a huge break from an industry standard, and I have heard no compelling reason for changing it. It needs to be changed back. From ubuntu at kitterman.com Mon Sep 28 22:41:19 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:41:19 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@75.199.131.122> <1253551764.15532.64.camel@bert> <79123a660909211030q41a9669xb3bce6d36122930a@mail.gmail.com> <1253708776.2430.42.camel@bert> <1253732391.3181.12.camel@tpad> <20090924124442.GB30825@vorlon.ping.de> <4ABB9950.6010006@gmail.com> <1253869560.2008.45.camel@miyazaki> <4ABD0F94.1050903@gmail.com> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <16939-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E6DE04@[75.192.234.170]> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:43:49 +0200 Lo?c Martin wrote: >... >It would be nice if people on -devel stopped putting the blame on REVU >though, especially when, as a matter of fact, what they're asking for in >words isn't welcomed as much as they would paint it... XP > I think you make the point rather well. We are having serious problems maintaing what we have now. We really don't need more distractions such as new packages without maintainership and new package reviews to draw us away from what already is broken and needs fixing. Scott K From robbie at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 28 22:44:07 2009 From: robbie at ubuntu.com (Robbie Williamson) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:44:07 -0500 Subject: Security Team Weekly Summary, 2009-09-28 Message-ID: <1254174247.7461.21.camel@robbiew-laptop> === Jamie Strandboge === Role: community == Issue Tracking == * bug triage * CVE traige == Updates == * publish postgresql * asterisk sponsored upload and testing for iamfuzz * dovecot and newt sponsored uploads for mdeslaur == Technology Development == * AppArmor * firefox * fix LP: #433128 (Apparmor denies firefox extension execution) * fix LP: #433362 (Apparmor blocks access to /media in Firefox) * fix LP: #436221 (apparmor profile is not disabled on upgrade from jaunty firefox-3.5) * firefox merge discussion * libvirt * implement XML parsing in security driver along with other upstream suggestions * test cases for attach/detach-disk/device * investigate spurious apparmor denied messages which occasionally occur on attach (only occurs during guest boot when acpi is being loaded and perform the attach at that instant) * resubmit libvirt patch to upstream * QRT: write libvirt-apparmor.sh * follow up on LP: #400682 ([Karmic stac9227 regression] No sound after upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic) * brainstorm group functionality for ufw. Basic idea is that ufw can essentially be a wrapper around ip[6]tables so most applications that just add rules to the BUILTIN chains can more easily add ufw support. This is all very hand-wavy, but the user experience might be something like: * application calls 'ufw -g eucalyptus -A INPUT ...iptables rule...', which creates a 'eucalyptus-INPUT' chain, and adds the rule to this chain (note that the various BUILTIN chains would need to be supported) * administrator can then reference when manipulating rulesets, eg 'sudo ufw group in eucalyptus'. This rule will add '-j eucalyptus-INPUT' rule into the user chain == Community == * participate in security team meeting * comment on core-dev application for nxvl * prepare for/participate in release meeting * write https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus === Kees Cook === Weekly Role: community == Updates == * published neon updates (USN-835-1) == Technology Development == * backported AppArmor parser to jaunty kernel interface. == Technology Integration == * discussing apparmor loading with Keybuk. * writing initramfs hooks for apparmor. * removing executable stack from mountall (LP: #434813). * implemented --password in gnome-about-me (LP: #307019). == Auditing == * embargoed issue investigation. == Community == * attended LinuxCon, Linux Plumber's Conference. * investigating SELinux state in Karmic, talked with Caleb Case. * discussed upstreaming NX-emulation with Dave Jones. * reviewed/uploaded ufw for jdstrand. === Marc Deslauriers === Weekly role: triage == Issue Tracking == * CVE triage * security bug triage == Updates == * Worked on, tested and released USN-836-1: WebKit vulnerabilities * Worked on, tested and released USN-837-1: Newt vulnerability * Researched php5 CVEs * Researched and worked on dovecot CVEs == Technology development == * ubuntu-security-tools: - scripts/cve_lib.py: don't die on a blank line * Opened upstream bug for "vino-preferences does not report public IPv6 addresses" (LP: #344489) * qa-regression-testing: - Added to test-dovecot.py testing script -- Robbie Williamson Ubuntu From macoafi at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 23:35:11 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:35:11 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> On Monday 28 September 2009 2:43:49 pm Lo?c Martin wrote: > Actually, nothing in the documentation tells you there's an added step > after hitting "Confirmed" and subscribing the relevant sponsors. > However, it's often necessary, and since being obnoxious on #ubuntu-motu > is counterproductive, you progressively learn to pick up the bugs you > think, and not to much, because that way you can leave a few days > between asking on the channel. Yep yep. Theoretically, subscribing the sponsors is all you have to do. But then we all know the difference between theory and reality. James has been doing all this stuff on branches and merge requests. What's come of it? He wrote up some docs on how to make a branch and attach it to a bug and all that. But it seems many sponsors have no idea what to do when asked "can you sponsor this?" and pointed to a bug with a branch attached. AFAICT, they have to branch trunk and your branch, then manually bzr merge, then upload. It makes more sense to me to just have a "Merge!" button on the Merge Request page in LaunchPad (only for people with permissions to merge into that package's branch, that is). That'd be easier even than debdiffs for the sponsors, I think. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From ubuntu at kitterman.com Mon Sep 28 23:45:55 2009 From: ubuntu at kitterman.com (Scott Kitterman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:45:55 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <16981-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E6ED2A@[75.198.51.135]> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:35:11 -0400 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: >On Monday 28 September 2009 2:43:49 pm Lo?c Martin wrote: >> Actually, nothing in the documentation tells you there's an added step >> after hitting "Confirmed" and subscribing the relevant sponsors. >> However, it's often necessary, and since being obnoxious on #ubuntu-motu >> is counterproductive, you progressively learn to pick up the bugs you >> think, and not to much, because that way you can leave a few days >> between asking on the channel. > >Yep yep. Theoretically, subscribing the sponsors is all you have to do. But >then we all know the difference between theory and reality. > >James has been doing all this stuff on branches and merge requests. What's come >of it? He wrote up some docs on how to make a branch and attach it to a bug >and all that. But it seems many sponsors have no idea what to do when asked >"can you sponsor this?" and pointed to a bug with a branch attached. AFAICT, >they have to branch trunk and your branch, then manually bzr merge, then >upload. It makes more sense to me to just have a "Merge!" button on the Merge >Request page in LaunchPad (only for people with permissions to merge into that >package's branch, that is). That'd be easier even than debdiffs for the >sponsors, I think. > Probably, once potential sponsors are familiar with the new workflow, this will be true. I do not think that it will have a big effect on sponsorship though. IME, the process of understanding and testing the patch take far more time and mental energy than shoving around bits off diff. Scott K From arne.goetje at canonical.com Tue Sep 29 03:22:50 2009 From: arne.goetje at canonical.com (Arne Goetje) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:22:50 +0800 Subject: Russian locale alternative month names In-Reply-To: <60C0888DA90E444BA078472508DB93AC@Sandy> References: <60C0888DA90E444BA078472508DB93AC@Sandy> Message-ID: <4AC16F7A.4090304@canonical.com> SSK wrote: > Current Russian locale in Ubuntu doesn't support alternative month > names, which leads to date incorrect format in most desktop > applications. Who's responsible for maintaining it and whom should I > contact to get this resolved? If you use Ubuntu, please use 'ubuntu-bug langpack-locales' to file a bug against the langpack-locales package. If not, please file the bug directly on Launchpad[1] and mention which Ubuntu release you are using. In both cases, please mention in the bug report what the correct values should be, or alternatively attach a patch to fix the problem. Thanks a lot! Cheers Arne [1] http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/langpack-locales/+filebug?no-redirect -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/ebf20fcc/attachment-0001.pgp From scott at open-vote.org Tue Sep 29 05:57:58 2009 From: scott at open-vote.org (Scott Ritchie) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:57:58 -0700 Subject: Default Profile setting in Pulse Audio Configuration Karmic Alpha6 In-Reply-To: <4AC10B98.3050900@canonical.com> References: <20090927075954.3013.90095.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> <4AC10B98.3050900@canonical.com> Message-ID: <4AC193D6.1090504@open-vote.org> Pete Graner wrote: > On 09/27/2009 02:59 AM, bwallum wrote: >> Bugs are being reported due to default settings not enabling >> microphones. Could we set the default Profile as "Analog Stereo Duplex" >> in Sound Preferences, tab Hardware AND Volume Control, tab >> Configuration? >> >> There may be some inconsistency in the placing of Profile control. There >> may also be an issue with mic1 not working (although mic2 does) even >> with the above default Profile suggestion. > > This is best sent to the ubuntu-devel list (now cc'd). > > Thanks > > ~pete My laptop has 3 microphone devices according to PulseAudio - Line in, Mic1, and Mic2. One is a built in microphone, the other is a front microphone port -- is there anyway that the interface could tell me which is which? Is this standardized at all (eg is mic1 always the built in?) Thanks, Scott Ritchie From derek at pointerstop.ca Mon Sep 28 21:28:38 2009 From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:28:38 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > Everyone seems to forget the 'disable touchpad while typing' option > 3 seconds after I mention it. I've just never had any version of Linux that implemented it on whatever laptop I was using. Doesn't happen on this one... -- derek From derek at pointerstop.ca Mon Sep 28 21:27:03 2009 From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:27:03 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> <4AC0DF53.3050303@gmail.com> Message-ID: Laurent wrote: > >> But for the last week or so I have kept my hardware switch enabled, and I >> haven't had a single instance of accidentally clicking or moving the >> mouse. >> > > When I began with my laptop, I did had many instances of accidentally > clicking or moving the mouse. > We don't use our computer the same way, my hand is larger than your, my > touchpad is bigger ... I dont't know. The *fact* is that we have > different experiences. And many (all but one of the ones I've used) touchpads are so sensitive that you don't need to come within a centimeter or two of the pad to get a "click". -- derek From derek at pointerstop.ca Mon Sep 28 21:25:26 2009 From: derek at pointerstop.ca (Derek Broughton) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:25:26 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <27b5p6-2e5.ln1@morgen.pointerstop.ca> <20090928151743.GG4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: >> Where? Sure I can do "synclient touchpadOff=1", but I'm completely >> stumped on doing that automagically when I plug in my USB mouse. > > This has nothing to do with plugging in an external mouse. It has everything to do with how you can _configure_ your laptop to use, or not use, the touchpad. > This is about the touchpad built into laptops. Clicking and pointing with > 'normal'/USB mice should not be affected. You clearly read my question to mean the opposite of what I said. -- derek From alex.launi at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 22:37:47 2009 From: alex.launi at gmail.com (Alex Launi) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:37:47 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> Message-ID: <66cdbbc0909281437l785bff69tf8d75739bdb4faa6@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn wrote: > But *WHY*? > Everyone else appears to be arguing meta crap and saying that we shouldn't > just change for change sake or that change != regression. So what? That's > not the argument. > > Several people have provided reasons why it should be enabled. > No one can give me a good reason why it should be disabled by default. > No one (afaik) is saying it should not be enabled. We are saying it should not be enabled *for karmic* due to the stage in the cycle. This issue should have been brought up long ago, and should be considered for Lucid. -- --Alex Launi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/f3b31b93/attachment.htm From petersonmaxx at googlemail.com Mon Sep 28 23:04:12 2009 From: petersonmaxx at googlemail.com (Max) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:04:12 +0200 Subject: Dooble Web Browser for Ubuntu Karmic 9.10 or higher Release Message-ID: http://dooble.sf.net Dooble Web Browser for Ubuntu Karmic 9.10 or higher has been released Thanks to Micha? Zaj?c and Jonathan Dooble is a Secure and Open Source Web Browser that provides solid performance, stability, and cross-platform functionality. One of the application's most important goals is to safeguard the privacy of its community with a group of integrated privacy features of the browser: search engine, secure messenger, and e-mail client. The installer also provides a means of installing the Dooble browser component. http://master.dl.sourceforge.net/project/dooble/Dooble-Web-Browser_0.07_svn874_Ubuntu-Karmic-9.10-1i386.deb -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/5ccbbf75/attachment.htm From seven.steps at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 23:50:48 2009 From: seven.steps at gmail.com (Daniel Chen) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:50:48 -0400 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <604760770909281550j58716ee9m16de9f983453402b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > Yep yep. Theoretically, subscribing the sponsors is all you have to do. But > then we all know the difference between theory and reality. I suppose that's a really good reason to encourage active contributors to seek MOTU privileges if they aren't already. > and all that. ?But it seems many sponsors have no idea what to do when asked > "can you sponsor this?" and pointed to a bug with a branch attached. ?AFAICT, Sponsors _need_ to know what to do when asked to sponsor something. I would go as far as to say it's a responsibility that comes with the privilege of uploading to universe and multiverse. In fact, it sounds like a prime developer classroom - or even Open Week - session. > they have to branch trunk and your branch, then manually bzr merge, then > upload. ?It makes more sense to me to just have a "Merge!" button on the Merge > Request page in LaunchPad (only for people with permissions to merge into that > package's branch, that is). ?That'd be easier even than debdiffs for the > sponsors, I think. While that's a great longer term approach, we still need to address the issue of blocking on uploads. And, as Scott mentioned a few moments ago, it's really incumbent on the potential sponsors to follow through with due diligence, some of which is esoteric. -Dan From mkarnicki at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 01:46:16 2009 From: mkarnicki at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Karnicki?=) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:46:16 +0200 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d0609a80909281746v758b50e5w7cc3d791d365fc03@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:24 PM, ZaReason wrote: > > Sure there is. Go around and test to see if other laptops are shipped > with tap-to-click enabled by default. I bet you will find every single > laptop sold in stores today to have tap-to-click enabled by default. > This is a huge break from an industry standard, and I have heard no > compelling reason for changing it. It needs to be changed back. > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list Agreed. I've been following this thread for quite a while know. +1 for setting TTC enabled by default. I've been using karmic alpha 5 and 6 and I must admit it would make me seek for hardware compatibility issues/problems if my touchpad didn't respond to tapping. I respect that both sides have their arguments, but I also agree that TTC is enabled by default on majority of laptops on the market (at least in my country). I would opt for leaving it enabled, since IMO more often the option would be turned on then turned off. Cheers, Mike From aaron at heyaaron.com Tue Sep 29 02:04:26 2009 From: aaron at heyaaron.com (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:04:26 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <4AC0DF53.3050303@gmail.com> References: <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> <4AC0DF53.3050303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090929010425.GH4737@chrysalis> > When I began with my laptop, I did had many instances of > accidentally clicking or moving the mouse. Right--so for the billionth time I'll remind people about the 'Disable touchpad while typing' option which sounds like it will solve your issue. -A From seven.steps at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 06:16:08 2009 From: seven.steps at gmail.com (Daniel Chen) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:16:08 -0400 Subject: Default Profile setting in Pulse Audio Configuration Karmic Alpha6 In-Reply-To: <4AC193D6.1090504@open-vote.org> References: <20090927075954.3013.90095.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> <4AC10B98.3050900@canonical.com> <4AC193D6.1090504@open-vote.org> Message-ID: <604760770909282216q39557510ybb5aabc5a1fa119c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Scott Ritchie wrote: > My laptop has 3 microphone devices according to PulseAudio - Line in, > Mic1, and Mic2. ?One is a built in microphone, the other is a front > microphone port -- is there anyway that the interface could tell me > which is which? ?Is this standardized at all (eg is mic1 always the > built in?) gnome-media and pavucontrol could rely on PA to expose this information (if/when available), sure. The difficult part is that there is no consistency between MicX - it's really up to the mainboard provider. PA has begun to move a lot of the insane logic into config files, but I'm not comfortable relying on that approach (which really relies on alsa-driver/linux to expose the IDs via /proc/asound/card*/codec* for HDA) due to how volatile things are... -Dan From sh at sourcecode.de Tue Sep 29 07:25:53 2009 From: sh at sourcecode.de (Stephan Hermann) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:25:53 +0200 Subject: Sponsorship Process (Was: Re: Packaging Help) In-Reply-To: <604760770909281550j58716ee9m16de9f983453402b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <1254149123.2805.7.camel@bert> <4AC103E5.9060907@gmail.com> <200909281835.11547.macoafi@gmail.com> <604760770909281550j58716ee9m16de9f983453402b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090929082553.46a51823@wz-pc-010> Moins, On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:50:48 -0400 Daniel Chen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Mackenzie Morgan > wrote: > > Yep yep. Theoretically, subscribing the sponsors is all you have to > > do. But then we all know the difference between theory and reality. > > I suppose that's a really good reason to encourage active contributors > to seek MOTU privileges if they aren't already. > > > and all that. ?But it seems many sponsors have no idea what to do > > when asked "can you sponsor this?" and pointed to a bug with a > > branch attached. ?AFAICT, > > Sponsors _need_ to know what to do when asked to sponsor something. I > would go as far as to say it's a responsibility that comes with the > privilege of uploading to universe and multiverse. Most of the Sponsors are knowing the way of how to do something, they know the workflows...but really, having a branch attached or a patch file attached, doesn't matter. As an uploader you have responsibility that you understand what you are uploading and for some software you need to have a deeper look into the code and understand what's happening. If you as uploader don't understand the code, would you upload it without this knowledge? > In fact, it sounds like a prime developer classroom - or even Open > Week - session. > > > they have to branch trunk and your branch, then manually bzr merge, > > then upload. ?It makes more sense to me to just have a "Merge!" > > button on the Merge Request page in LaunchPad (only for people with > > permissions to merge into that package's branch, that is). ?That'd > > be easier even than debdiffs for the sponsors, I think. > > While that's a great longer term approach, we still need to address > the issue of blocking on uploads. And, as Scott mentioned a few > moments ago, it's really incumbent on the potential sponsors to follow > through with due diligence, some of which is esoteric. TBH, it doesn't matter how the change comes in, via bzr branch, debdiff, bunch of simple-patchsys patch files or quilt patch files... Important is that you understand what's going on with the application you patch, when you patch it. Really, it's easy to pull in in fixes for e.g. Security issues, but more important is, that you have a test case which shows that this issue you patched is really fixed. That's one of the reasons, why I decreased my involvement in the security area...for some apps (especially web stuff) I know what the patch fixes, and I know in theory how to test that...but I'm really too "stupid" to convert public exploit code into a valid test case. (For that reason I have some other people doing security audits) Regarding all this, someone needs to decide what's more important: Doing the Prio 1 topics, or pulling in some patches which needs more time to investigate into a not so well known source. Regards, \sh -- | Stephan '\sh' Hermann | OSS Dev / SysAdmin | | JID: sh at linux-server.org | http://www.sourcecode.de/ | | GPG ID: 0xC098EFA8 | http://leonov.tv/ | | FP: 3D8B 5138 0852 DA7A B83F DCCB C189 E733 C098 EFA8 | From aelmahmoudy at users.sourceforge.net Tue Sep 29 07:39:17 2009 From: aelmahmoudy at users.sourceforge.net (=?utf-8?B?2KPYrdmF2K8g2KfZhNmF2K3ZhdmI2K/Zig==?=) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:39:17 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:31:04PM +0200, Kenneth Wimer wrote: > GDM is now a normal gnome session, so it takes a gtk, metacity, icon and > cursor theme like a normal desktop does. You can set them by defining the gconf > keys for the use gdm. ---end quoted text--- The way Ubuntu sets the GDM theme in postinst makes branding not possible. -- ????? ???????? (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy) Digital design engineer GPG KeyID: 0xEDDDA1B7 (@ subkeys.pgp.net) GPG Fingerprint: 8206 A196 2084 7E6D 0DF8 B176 BC19 6A94 EDDD A1B7 From earl at zareason.com Tue Sep 29 07:01:23 2009 From: earl at zareason.com (Earl) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:01:23 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <66cdbbc0909281437l785bff69tf8d75739bdb4faa6@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <20090926225558.GA2750@chrysalis> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <66cdbbc0909281437l785bff69tf8d75739bdb4faa6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Alex Launi wrote: > No one (afaik) is saying it should not be enabled. We are saying it should not be enabled *for karmic* due to the stage in the cycle. We're still in Alpha, and it's too late to discuss toggling a checkbox??? From d.c.beekman.devel at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 10:04:38 2009 From: d.c.beekman.devel at gmail.com (Dennis Beekman) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:04:38 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> Message-ID: <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the info so far... al though it really puts me off ubuntu if it is true. Considering that we want company's and other commercial users to start installing Ubuntu, making a move to a new system wich cannot be branded or adapted like the original GDM a bad one. Company's always want they're own logo's and wallpapers to be shown on they're computer and if this cannot be done with ubuntu than i fear they will not consider using it anymore. In my eye's the ability to change the theming and appearance of linux is one of its strong points and a clear advantage over Windows... that said i am really worried about this development of GDM2. I would have expected more option to be added instead of removing all option all together.... I sutainly can't sell this to my supervisor without branding... so i will have to look for another distro to use at this school. Thanks though for clearing this up and saving me some time and a lot of headaches trying to figure this out :-) Dennis Beekman On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:39 AM, ???? ???????? < aelmahmoudy at users.sourceforge.net> wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 06:31:04PM +0200, Kenneth Wimer wrote: > > GDM is now a normal gnome session, so it takes a gtk, metacity, icon and > > cursor theme like a normal desktop does. You can set them by defining the > gconf > > keys for the use gdm. > ---end quoted text--- > > The way Ubuntu sets the GDM theme in postinst makes branding not > possible. > > -- > ????? ???????? (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy) > Digital design engineer > GPG KeyID: 0xEDDDA1B7 (@ subkeys.pgp.net) > GPG Fingerprint: 8206 A196 2084 7E6D 0DF8 B176 BC19 6A94 EDDD A1B7 > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/b334f3c5/attachment.htm From didrocks at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 10:52:29 2009 From: didrocks at ubuntu.com (Didier Roche) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:52:29 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/9/29 Dennis Beekman : > Thanks for all the info so far... al though it really puts me off ubuntu if > it is true. > Considering that we want company's and other commercial users to start > installing Ubuntu, making a move to a new system wich cannot be branded or > adapted like the original GDM a bad one. > Company's always want they're own logo's and wallpapers to be shown on > they're computer and if this cannot be done with ubuntu than i fear they > will not consider using it anymore. > > In my eye's the ability to change the theming and appearance of linux is one > of its strong points and a clear advantage over Windows... that said i am > really worried about this development of GDM2. > I would have expected more option to be added instead of removing all option > all together.... > > I sutainly can't sell this to my supervisor without branding... so i will > have to look for another distro to use at this school. > > Thanks though for clearing this up and saving me some time and a lot of > headaches trying to figure this out :-) If you take a look at last night's update, new GDM update (2.28.0-0ubuntu7, cf https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/2.28.0-0ubuntu7) enables setting a different background than the user's one. It basically just changes the gconf key associated to the "gdm" user, setting a different wallpaper. You can have a look there: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32637188/gdm_2.28.0-0ubuntu6_2.28.0-0ubuntu7.diff.gz It should be easy to create your own branded gtk theme and background, changing then the gconf key. Didier From evand at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 10:57:29 2009 From: evand at ubuntu.com (Evan Dandrea) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:57:29 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909262115j43f78294ybddd3f1fddcca18@mail.gmail.com> <20090927050127.GC4737@chrysalis> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <66cdbbc0909281437l785bff69tf8d75739bdb4faa6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5ce3d36f0909290257y2dd33917mfb604347d17f02fe@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Earl wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Alex Launi wrote: >> No one (afaik) is saying it should not be enabled. We are saying it should not be enabled *for karmic* due to the stage in the cycle. > > We're still in Alpha, and it's too late to discuss toggling a checkbox??? We're in BetaFreeze: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule From aelmahmoudy at users.sourceforge.net Tue Sep 29 11:37:37 2009 From: aelmahmoudy at users.sourceforge.net (=?utf-8?B?2KPYrdmF2K8g2KfZhNmF2K3ZhdmI2K/Zig==?=) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:37:37 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090929103737.GA3139@ants.dhis.net> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:52:29AM +0200, Didier Roche wrote: > If you take a look at last night's update, new GDM update > (2.28.0-0ubuntu7, cf > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/2.28.0-0ubuntu7) enables > setting a different background than the user's one. It basically just > changes the gconf key associated to the "gdm" user, setting a > different wallpaper. > > You can have a look there: > http://launchpadlibrarian.net/32637188/gdm_2.28.0-0ubuntu6_2.28.0-0ubuntu7.diff.gz > It should be easy to create your own branded gtk theme and background, > changing then the gconf key. ---end quoted text--- I think you mean those lines: su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg' gdm su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme --type string HumanLogin' gdm But the problem I meant is branding a Ubuntu derivative by installing some package. As far as I know a derivatve distro cannot do the above in postinst script, so as to not override a possible sys. admin setting. -- ????? ???????? (Ahmed El-Mahmoudy) Digital design engineer GPG KeyID: 0xEDDDA1B7 (@ subkeys.pgp.net) GPG Fingerprint: 8206 A196 2084 7E6D 0DF8 B176 BC19 6A94 EDDD A1B7 From macoafi at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 11:43:53 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 06:43:53 -0400 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909290643.54320.macoafi@gmail.com> On Tuesday 29 September 2009 5:04:38 am Dennis Beekman wrote: > I sutainly can't sell this to my supervisor without branding... so i will > have to look for another distro to use at this school. Go for a not-very-new release of a distro, because this is an upstream change that's gonna be hitting a lot more than just us. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From siretart at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 12:51:31 2009 From: siretart at ubuntu.com (Reinhard Tartler) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:51:31 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <20090929103737.GA3139@ants.dhis.net> (=?utf-8?B?Itij2K3Zhdiv?= =?utf-8?B?INin2YTZhdit2YXZiNiv2YoiJ3M=?= message of "Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:37:37 +0200") References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> <20090929063917.GA2968@ants.dhis.net> <59d2a17b0909290204r1ba1e24dm24706d447c95e58b@mail.gmail.com> <20090929103737.GA3139@ants.dhis.net> Message-ID: <87vdj22cl8.fsf@faui44a.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> ???? ???????? writes: > I think you mean those lines: > > su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg' gdm > su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme --type string HumanLogin' gdm > > But the problem I meant is branding a Ubuntu derivative by installing > some package. As far as I know a derivatve distro cannot do the above in > postinst script, so as to not override a possible sys. admin setting. That should be possible. Here is the full code of the postinst script: #set default theme for the gdm login screen if [ "$1" = "configure" ] && dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 2.28.0-0ubuntu7; then su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg' gdm su -s /bin/sh -c 'gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk-theme --type string HumanLogin' gdm fi this means that the theme is only updated on upgrades from jaunty or earlier. If you update it afterwards, the postinst (and hopefully future postinst as well) shouldn't override that. If you are creating a configuration package that updates the background in a similar way to gdm, then you should make sure that you Pre-Depend on gdm (>> 2.28.0-0ubuntu7) AFAIUI to ensure that the ubuntu gdm package is configured before your configuration package. FWIW, using something like puppet or cfengine would be my preferred way to implement that. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 From carribeiro at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 12:20:39 2009 From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:20:39 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <864d37090909290420n44389072o964a7d43e2700c1a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 20:42, Erik Andersen wrote: > As far as disabling the touch pad while typing, it will solve the most > common reason people turn the touch pad off. At the same time, I think it > would be pretty hard physically to use the touch pad and keyboard at the > same time and most programs wouldn't require require you to do this anyways. > On top of that, this feature could also be turned off by advanced users. So > that way, we would (hopefully) have a win-win situation. > My 0.2 cents worth. I've used (as in "worked with for a long time") at least four different notebooks over the past year or two. I`ve used them with Windows and Ubuntu. In all cases, one of the first things that I did (in Windows) was to disable the touch pad while typing. It`s amazing at how frequently I would touch the pad while typing. Sometimes the cursor would simply move and I would take a few keypresses to note that I was not writing where I meant to. It broke my flow, and was a huge problem for me. One of the things that most distressed me with Ubuntu was that I didn't had as much control over the touchpad as I had with Windows. On at least one case it was something that stopped me from using Ubuntu on a particularly "unsupported" notebook (I think it was a Toshiba but I may be wrong). So, by all means, disable touchpad while typing is a mus; it should be easy to select, and perhaps it could even be the default setting. -- Carlos Ribeiro Consultoria em Projetos twitter: http://twitter.com/carribeiro blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com mail: carribeiro at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/5e458cce/attachment.htm From carribeiro at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 12:24:24 2009 From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:24:24 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <1254068266.3901.5.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <66cdbbc0909271401w72024589va410de75eda18626@mail.gmail.com> <604760770909271413h6906650dxc230f4694e0cec17@mail.gmail.com> <20090927220156.GE4737@chrysalis> <1254144641.2366.6.camel@rick-karmic-eee> <20090928150422.GF4737@chrysalis> <4AC0DF53.3050303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <864d37090909290424n264f1224y84249ce870920b26@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 17:27, Derek Broughton wrote: > And many (all but one of the ones I've used) touchpads are so sensitive > that > you don't need to come within a centimeter or two of the pad to get a > "click". > Right!! Sometimes you just move your hand close (bot not touching) the pad, and it still moves the mouse, or it clickes. The problem is that it can move the cursor focus, and if you are typing fast, it becomes a big problem - your text is broken, mixed up, and it breaks your entire thought flow. That's whay I *always* 'disable touchpad while typing" option on Windows. That's a HUGE problem for me in Ubuntu. -- Carlos Ribeiro Consultoria em Projetos twitter: http://twitter.com/carribeiro blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com mail: carribeiro at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/980a1dac/attachment.htm From macoafi at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 14:36:38 2009 From: macoafi at gmail.com (Mackenzie Morgan) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:36:38 -0400 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <864d37090909290424n264f1224y84249ce870920b26@mail.gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <864d37090909290424n264f1224y84249ce870920b26@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909290936.39520.macoafi@gmail.com> On Tuesday 29 September 2009 7:24:24 am Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 17:27, Derek Broughton wrote: > > And many (all but one of the ones I've used) touchpads are so sensitive > > that > > you don't need to come within a centimeter or two of the pad to get a > > "click". > > Right!! Sometimes you just move your hand close (bot not touching) the pad, > and it still moves the mouse, or it clickes. The problem is that it can > move the cursor focus, and if you are typing fast, it becomes a big > problem - your text is broken, mixed up, and it breaks your entire thought > flow. > > That's whay I *always* 'disable touchpad while typing" option on Windows. > That's a HUGE problem for me in Ubuntu. It's a huge problem for you that this option is also available in Ubuntu? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo From carribeiro at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 14:52:17 2009 From: carribeiro at gmail.com (Carlos Ribeiro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:52:17 -0300 Subject: Karmic touch pad request In-Reply-To: <200909290936.39520.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> <864d37090909290424n264f1224y84249ce870920b26@mail.gmail.com> <200909290936.39520.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <864d37090909290652t3e4f5748kf6bc0228208efdc@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:36, Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Tuesday 29 September 2009 7:24:24 am Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 17:27, Derek Broughton > wrote: > > > And many (all but one of the ones I've used) touchpads are so sensitive > > > that > > > you don't need to come within a centimeter or two of the pad to get a > > > "click". > > > > Right!! Sometimes you just move your hand close (bot not touching) the > pad, > > and it still moves the mouse, or it clickes. The problem is that it can > > move the cursor focus, and if you are typing fast, it becomes a big > > problem - your text is broken, mixed up, and it breaks your entire > thought > > flow. > > > > That's whay I *always* 'disable touchpad while typing" option on Windows. > > That's a HUGE problem for me in Ubuntu. > > It's a huge problem for you that this option is also available in Ubuntu? > > Sorry for the emphasis. I should have said "it used to be HUGE problem...". Older versions didn't had this option, as it has appeared first on Windows custom drivers. Also, in the past touchpad support wasn't very good or solid, due to driver issues. It became a lot less frequent over time, it can be the case that it can be considered "fixed" by now. Anyway - my point is that it should be default. One good reason is that I can't imagine a good reason for people to click while they're typing. So, if you have this option as a default, you help people that have a problem with it, and at the same time don't bother those who don't care about it. -- Carlos Ribeiro Consultoria em Projetos twitter: http://twitter.com/carribeiro blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com mail: carribeiro at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/df866457/attachment.htm From mdz at canonical.com Tue Sep 29 18:30:47 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:30:47 -0700 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> (Please keep ubuntu-devel in the loop; this should not be a private conversation) On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 03:23:27PM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Tested the freshly-baked 20090929.2 CDs for a UEC install run. > > The good: > * eucalyptus-nc starts correctly > * Public IPs are propagated to configuration > > The ugly: > * Autoregistration still fails. Waiting more seems to help, but it > still randomly fails, whatever time you wait. The error is always > "ERROR: you need to be on the CLC host and the CLC needs to be > running.". After a few sudo stop eucalyptus / sudo start eucalyptus" it > worked. It seems to be purely random. I have no clue how to fix that, > hopefully the Eucalyptus guys can help when testing the 20090929.2. I'm > tempted to consider this a known beta issue at that point, and recommend > manual registration if autoregister failed. I reopened bug 438602 to > track that. What steps have you taken to debug this so far? I suggest adding some simple logging to the upstart jobs so that you can confirm the order and timing of the steps and find out where it is going wrong. Dustin, Mathias, can you help chase this since it's the evening for Thierry? -- - mdz From thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 19:15:52 2009 From: thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:15:52 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> Message-ID: <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> * Autoregistration still fails. Waiting more seems to help, but it >> still randomly fails, whatever time you wait. The error is always >> "ERROR: you need to be on the CLC host and the CLC needs to be >> running.". After a few sudo stop eucalyptus / sudo start eucalyptus" it >> worked. It seems to be purely random. I have no clue how to fix that, >> hopefully the Eucalyptus guys can help when testing the 20090929.2. I'm >> tempted to consider this a known beta issue at that point, and recommend >> manual registration if autoregister failed. I reopened bug 438602 to >> track that. > > What steps have you taken to debug this so far? I suggest adding some > simple logging to the upstart jobs so that you can confirm the order and > timing of the steps and find out where it is going wrong. Logging would definitely help. Apparently it's not just a timing/race issue, it's also unstable. Dan Nurmi will try to reproduce and help debug. Our best lead so far is using the same external address as the walrus component uses (since it's the only one to register properly). > Dustin, Mathias, can you help chase this since it's the evening for Thierry? We discussed it during the team meeting. Dustin will follow up for the US shift, Mathias will assist in reproduction/debugging. I suggested that if we can't fix it reliably by the end of the day, it should be a known bug for beta. The idea is to get an ISO toasted with at least the /var/run/eucalyptus/net fix by the end of the day, an ISO which I'll test first thing tomorrow morning. -- Thierry Carrez Ubuntu server team From kirkland at canonical.com Tue Sep 29 22:05:45 2009 From: kirkland at canonical.com (Dustin Kirkland) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:05:45 -0500 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Matt Zimmerman wrote: >> What steps have you taken to debug this so far? ?I suggest adding some >> simple logging to the upstart jobs so that you can confirm the order and >> timing of the steps and find out where it is going wrong. > > Logging would definitely help. Apparently it's not just a timing/race > issue, it's also unstable. Dan Nurmi will try to reproduce and help > debug. Our best lead so far is using the same external address as the > walrus component uses (since it's the only one to register properly). > >> Dustin, Mathias, can you help chase this since it's the evening for Thierry? I just uploaded eucalyptus_1.6~bzr854-0ubuntu12_source.changes, which fixes one of the beta critical bugs (relating to the creation and ownership of /var/run/eucalyptus/net). We're still fighting the -cc registration reliability issues. It seems to register, on occasion. But it's neither stable, nor reliable. Mathias has gathered more upstart debugging. We're hoping to make contact with Scott. At this point, we think we might actually be looking at an Upstart bug. :-Dustin From jorge at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 21:23:40 2009 From: jorge at ubuntu.com (Jorge O. Castro) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:23:40 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu Open Week Plans and Call for Speakers Message-ID: Hi everyone, A bunch of you have been getting nagged by myself or Amber Graner to continue the great tradition of Ubuntu Open Week. For those of you who don't know, UOW is a week long workshop where users can learn about Ubuntu and how it all works. It's a more mainstream IRC week, so it's not as technical as something like Ubuntu Developer Week. More information can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/ We hope to have the schedule finalized by October 7th (Next Wednesday) so we can make a slick pamphlet like we had for Developer Week. Open Week itself is from 2-6 November. Planning and brainstorming the schedule is ongoing here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep We are of course always looking for interesting topics and speakers, so if you're interesting in a session please reply to me off-list and we'll get you scheduled. -- Jorge Castro jorge (at) ubuntu.com External Project Developer Relations Canonical Ltd. From mathiaz at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 29 23:15:41 2009 From: mathiaz at ubuntu.com (Mathias Gug) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:15:41 -0400 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Dustin Kirkland wrote: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Thierry Carrez > wrote: >>> Dustin, Mathias, can you help chase this since it's the evening for Thierry? > > I just uploaded eucalyptus_1.6~bzr854-0ubuntu12_source.changes, which > fixes one of the beta critical bugs (relating to the creation and > ownership of /var/run/eucalyptus/net). > > We're still fighting the -cc registration reliability issues. ?It > seems to register, on occasion. ?But it's neither stable, nor > reliable. ?Mathias has gathered more upstart debugging. ?We're hoping > to make contact with Scott. ?At this point, we think we might actually > be looking at an Upstart bug. > Right. As I mentioned in the bug [1]: [1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/438602/comments/6 It seems that the eucalyptus-cc-registration job is not always started by upstart. To check that the jobs have been started, I've added a pre-start section to each -registration job (ex for the walrus-registration job): pre-start script touch /var/tmp/walrus-registration.started end script To enable upstart debug messages, I've added a line to the pre-script section of the eucalyptus job (since it's the first one to start the whole eucalyptus system): /sbin/initctl log-priority debug I've attached the syslog generated during boot. -- Mathias Gug Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com From laserjock at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 04:17:16 2009 From: laserjock at ubuntu.com (Jordan Mantha) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:17:16 -0400 Subject: how can non-admin users shutdown from CLI? Message-ID: <8d41218e0909292017q1ec640fg15bc25fdcd4dd056@mail.gmail.com> It has been brought to my attention [0] that Karmic doesn't have an obvious way for non-admin users to shutdown a computer from the command line. While I can see why that wouldn't always be desirable, it becomes a big problem for remote management tools. iTalic is such a tool commonly used with thin client (LTSP) setups or as a way to remotely control standalone machines. For the later case it uses gdm-signal -h or gnome-session-save --shutdown-dialog to allow a person to remotely shutdown other machines. In the new GDM world order gdm-signal doesn't exist and gnome-session-save --shutdown-dialog just logs the user out rather than shutting down the machine. In Jaunty gnome-power-manager shipped gnome-power-cmd and one could run "gnome-power-cmd shutdown". In Karmic gnome-power-cmd no longer exists. So the question is, is there or will there be a way to shutdown a computer as a non-admin user in Karmic? And if not, is there a particular reason not to? -Jordan [0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/italc/+bug/367960 From ted at canonical.com Wed Sep 30 04:53:37 2009 From: ted at canonical.com (Ted Gould) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:53:37 -0500 Subject: how can non-admin users shutdown from CLI? In-Reply-To: <8d41218e0909292017q1ec640fg15bc25fdcd4dd056@mail.gmail.com> References: <8d41218e0909292017q1ec640fg15bc25fdcd4dd056@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1254282817.7746.9.camel@shi> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 23:17 -0400, Jordan Mantha wrote: > So the question is, is there or will there be a way to shutdown a > computer as a non-admin user in Karmic? And if not, is there a > particular reason not to? It's a little bit of an internal interface, but you can manually launch the dialogs that indicator-session uses by doing this: $ /usr/lib/indicator-session/gtk-logout-helper --shutdown That will pop up the dialog. If you want to just ask GNOME session to shutdown you can do this: $ dbus-send --print-reply --dest=org.gnome.SessionManager /org/gnome/SessionManager org.gnome.SessionManager.RequestShutdown And that should do the trick. In both cases I believe you'll need to be able to set up an X connection to get the dbus session bus (or pop the dialog). --Ted -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090929/d530ad7e/attachment.pgp From thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 08:41:18 2009 From: thierry.carrez at ubuntu.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:41:18 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> Dustin Kirkland wrote: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Thierry Carrez > wrote: >> Matt Zimmerman wrote: >>> What steps have you taken to debug this so far? I suggest adding some >>> simple logging to the upstart jobs so that you can confirm the order and >>> timing of the steps and find out where it is going wrong. >> Logging would definitely help. Apparently it's not just a timing/race >> issue, it's also unstable. Dan Nurmi will try to reproduce and help >> debug. Our best lead so far is using the same external address as the >> walrus component uses (since it's the only one to register properly). >> >>> Dustin, Mathias, can you help chase this since it's the evening for Thierry? > > I just uploaded eucalyptus_1.6~bzr854-0ubuntu12_source.changes, which > fixes one of the beta critical bugs (relating to the creation and > ownership of /var/run/eucalyptus/net). > > We're still fighting the -cc registration reliability issues. It > seems to register, on occasion. But it's neither stable, nor > reliable. Mathias has gathered more upstart debugging. We're hoping > to make contact with Scott. At this point, we think we might actually > be looking at an Upstart bug. Late in his night, Dustin uploaded -0ubuntu13 which in my testing fixes the registration issue. Apparently using external address fixed it, maybe the upstart issue was a red herring. However my preliminary testing shows that eucalyptus needs to be stopped/started *after registration succeeded* to take the registration into account... I'll confirm that bug with the ISO install, when it will be published. Looking at Dan's installation reports he sure mentions: # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-walrus 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-cluster cc1 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-sc cc1 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-nodes 192.168.7.31 # sudo /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cloud restart <----------------- # sudo euca_conf --get-credentials mycreds.zip I think it's getting late for another round of upstart fixes, and this one is non-trivial (restarting eucalyptus would also register again ?). I propose to confirm the bug and document it as a known beta issue. -- Thierry Carrez Ubuntu server team From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 11:28:35 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:28:35 +0100 Subject: ubuntu-core-dev contact address Message-ID: <20090930102834.GR13423@riva.ucam.org> Thanks to Daniel Holbach and Paul Collins, we now have an ubuntu-reviews mailing list for use for merge proposals, sponsorship discussions, etc. (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-reviews). Please subscribe and participate if you're interested in such things. As such, I've changed the contact address of the ubuntu-core-dev team in Launchpad to ubuntu-reviews@, as most traffic to the contact address was merge proposals anyway. I figure that if we do get the odd other piece of mail that way, we can always redirect it to somewhere more appropriate. -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] From debfx-pkg at fobos.de Sat Sep 26 19:50:23 2009 From: debfx-pkg at fobos.de (Felix Geyer) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:50:23 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~debfx/acpi-support/fix-lp387750 into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk Message-ID: <20090926185023.26877.25643.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Felix Geyer has proposed merging lp:~debfx/acpi-support/fix-lp387750 into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk. Related bugs: #387750 CheckPolicy() in policy-funcs script does not detect PowerDevil https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/387750 Sync the 0.126 upload to bzr and fix bug #387750 -- https://code.launchpad.net/~debfx/acpi-support/fix-lp387750/+merge/12466 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review-diff.txt Type: text/x-diff Size: 2922 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090926/05fe2668/attachment-0001.bin From bugpost.tormod at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 21:35:21 2009 From: bugpost.tormod at gmail.com (Tormod Volden) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:35:21 -0000 Subject: [Merge] lp:~tormodvolden/acpi-support/nohdparm-option into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk Message-ID: <20090928203521.30496.26205.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Tormod Volden has proposed merging lp:~tormodvolden/acpi-support/nohdparm-option into lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk. -- https://code.launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/acpi-support/nohdparm-option/+merge/12550 Your team Ubuntu Core Development Team is subscribed to branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/acpi-support/trunk. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: review-diff.txt Type: text/x-diff Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/e1ea8965/attachment-0001.bin From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Wed Sep 30 13:44:10 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:44:10 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> Thierry Carrez wrote: > However my preliminary testing shows that eucalyptus needs to be > stopped/started *after registration succeeded* to take the registration > into account... I'll confirm that bug with the ISO install, when it will > be published. > [...] A full 20090930.1 test failed to run instances. There is some condition on the NC that makes it believe walrus is running on 127.0.0.1, though it is reported as correctly registered on the cluster side. I tried various ways to unregister and manually register it, to no avail. This is late for fixing this for beta. So I made the decision to revert to the previous known state, 20090930. Running that release I could make it actually start instances. It's not free of bugs, but at least we know how to document their workarounds. Here are the things against 20090930: * Requires manual registration and restart of eucalyptus before it can be used * Starting an instance can fail with a 500 Walrus error I'll verify and file bugs for each. I also ran into an issue booting the kernel of a beta UEC instance using local kernel/ramdisk. I'll test with the published ones. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 14:21:05 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:21:05 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090930132105.GI2339@piware.de> Thierry Carrez [2009-09-30 14:44 +0200]: > I tried various ways to unregister and manually register it, to no > avail. This is late for fixing this for beta. So I made the decision to > revert to the previous known state, 20090930. As discussed on IRC, this is fine for images. You just need to take into consideration that the updated euca is already in the archive, thus it might break people's setups if they upgrade to latest karmic after initial beta installation. So it's still important to either fix or revert the package in the archive. Now that it is out of date anyway, I'm fine with immediately accepting a new euca package. Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090930/354fd263/attachment.pgp From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Wed Sep 30 14:24:51 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:24:51 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <20090930132105.GI2339@piware.de> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> <20090930132105.GI2339@piware.de> Message-ID: <4AC35C23.6010904@canonical.com> Martin Pitt wrote: > Thierry Carrez [2009-09-30 14:44 +0200]: >> I tried various ways to unregister and manually register it, to no >> avail. This is late for fixing this for beta. So I made the decision to >> revert to the previous known state, 20090930. > > As discussed on IRC, this is fine for images. You just need to take > into consideration that the updated euca is already in the archive, > thus it might break people's setups if they upgrade to latest karmic > after initial beta installation. > > So it's still important to either fix or revert the package in the > archive. Now that it is out of date anyway, I'm fine with immediately > accepting a new euca package. Yes. We'll revert code to ubuntu12 and upload it as ubuntu14. I should do that as soon as I'm done with some more testing. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From mdz at canonical.com Wed Sep 30 16:03:34 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:03:34 -0700 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090930150334.GF26432@atomicity> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 02:44:10PM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > However my preliminary testing shows that eucalyptus needs to be > > stopped/started *after registration succeeded* to take the registration > > into account... I'll confirm that bug with the ISO install, when it will > > be published. > > [...] > > A full 20090930.1 test failed to run instances. > There is some condition on the NC that makes it believe walrus is > running on 127.0.0.1, though it is reported as correctly registered on > the cluster side. > > I tried various ways to unregister and manually register it, to no > avail. This is late for fixing this for beta. So I made the decision to > revert to the previous known state, 20090930. Just to be clear: if you're reverting to 20090930 as the candidate installation image, you need to roll back at least the Eucalyptus package to the same state, both for the sake of upgrades and so that we can re-roll new candidates with other last-minute fixes if necessary. > Running that release I could make it actually start instances. It's not > free of bugs, but at least we know how to document their workarounds. > > Here are the things against 20090930: > > * Requires manual registration and restart of eucalyptus before it can > be used > * Starting an instance can fail with a 500 Walrus error > > I'll verify and file bugs for each. I haven't had a chance to look over the test reports yet; are there other problem areas apart from Eucalyptus for beta? -- - mdz From thierry.carrez at canonical.com Wed Sep 30 16:23:23 2009 From: thierry.carrez at canonical.com (Thierry Carrez) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:23:23 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <20090930150334.GF26432@atomicity> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> <20090930150334.GF26432@atomicity> Message-ID: <4AC377EB.2040506@canonical.com> Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 02:44:10PM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> Thierry Carrez wrote: >>> However my preliminary testing shows that eucalyptus needs to be >>> stopped/started *after registration succeeded* to take the registration >>> into account... I'll confirm that bug with the ISO install, when it will >>> be published. >>> [...] >> A full 20090930.1 test failed to run instances. >> There is some condition on the NC that makes it believe walrus is >> running on 127.0.0.1, though it is reported as correctly registered on >> the cluster side. >> >> I tried various ways to unregister and manually register it, to no >> avail. This is late for fixing this for beta. So I made the decision to >> revert to the previous known state, 20090930. > > Just to be clear: if you're reverting to 20090930 as the candidate > installation image, you need to roll back at least the Eucalyptus package to > the same state, both for the sake of upgrades and so that we can re-roll new > candidates with other last-minute fixes if necessary. Yes. Dustin still wants to try to fix the registration issue, but I can't see how we can get it sufficiently tested (on a full UEC run) for beta release, and prefer to work on known issues at that point. So beta should ship with -0ubuntu12, and 20090930.2 is likely to be the final. If Dustin manages to solve the issue and test it thoroughly on full UEC install + instancerun tests, we have two options: - respin CD and redo all tests (that's too late in my opinion) - publish a ubuntu14 that people can upgrade to If Dustin doesn't solve it or testing reveals more issues, the only option is to publish a ubuntu14 that is functionally equivalent to 12. What should be the cutoff time ? Pitti seems to hint that EU tomorrow morning should be ok. If you want a 14=12 uploaded now, please confirm. >> Running that release I could make it actually start instances. It's not >> free of bugs, but at least we know how to document their workarounds. >> >> Here are the things against 20090930: >> >> * Requires manual registration and restart of eucalyptus before it can >> be used Bugs 438602 and 439251 >> * Starting an instance can fail with a 500 Walrus error Bug 439410 >> I'll verify and file bugs for each. > > I haven't had a chance to look over the test reports yet; are there other > problem areas apart from Eucalyptus for beta? There is an issue running the UEC image with the ramdisk published on uec-images, bug 439415. If that can't be solved, I recommend pulling off the kernels and ramdisks from there. -- Thierry Carrez Technical lead, Ubuntu server team || Canonical Ltd. From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 16:37:19 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:37:19 +0200 Subject: 20090929.2 UEC install test In-Reply-To: <4AC377EB.2040506@canonical.com> References: <4AC20A4F.8020000@ubuntu.com> <20090929173047.GA19427@atomicity> <4AC24ED8.6020908@ubuntu.com> <4AC30B9E.1010008@ubuntu.com> <4AC3529A.1040909@canonical.com> <20090930150334.GF26432@atomicity> <4AC377EB.2040506@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090930153719.GK2339@piware.de> Thierry Carrez [2009-09-30 17:23 +0200]: > What should be the cutoff time ? Pitti seems to hint that EU tomorrow > morning should be ok. If you want a 14=12 uploaded now, please confirm. The important point here is to have either a functionaly equivalent (14=12) or a fixed (14 with bug fixes) package at the time when we release the beta, which will probably happen around the time when Steve gets up, so something like 1500 UTC. Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) From jono at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 30 20:23:45 2009 From: jono at ubuntu.com (Jono Bacon) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:23:45 -0700 Subject: Community Team IRC Channel Message-ID: <4AC3B041.6030300@ubuntu.com> Hi All, In the interests of continued transparency, my team (Jorge Castro, Daniel Holbach and David Planella) will always be present in the #ubuntu-community-team channel on Freenode. Traditionally we have talked together on a private Canonical IRC channel, but we are moving to this channel as our primary channel. The main purpose of the channel is to discuss our work and to provide a general channel for those interested in community processes and infrastructure. Of course, we will encourage sub-community-specific content to be discussed in their respective channels (e.g. LoCo discussion in #ubuntu-locoteams). Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon From scott at canonical.com Tue Sep 1 12:21:05 2009 From: scott at canonical.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:21:05 -0000 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> Message-ID: <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 11:07 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > The nifty thing about "store" is that it has those two meanings -- shop, > and repository > I don't agree. "Store" primarily means a place where you *purchase* things. The secondary meaning of a repository implies that it's somewhere that *you* can store software you have, not somewhere that you obtain new software (for free). Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090901/c4360397/attachment-0002.pgp From ajmctaggart at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 16:42:48 2009 From: ajmctaggart at gmail.com (ajmctaggart) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:42:48 -0000 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: References: <4A96A98A.2090404@canonical.com> <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> Obviously Store is not very popular, nor Center. So what is it that we are trying to accomplish with the title of this piece of Ubuntu? Will it be unique and solely on Ubuntu? Or will this be installable on other distros and therefore we want to keep the word "Ubuntu" out of the title? Libs are obviously not nearly as "cool" as actual applications, but will have to be supported within this framework. Are we trying to communicate a trading post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a trading post or a bazaar in a Ubuntu-esque fashion? 1) Marketplace 2) Creative Exchange 3) Open Market/ Open Exchange 4) Common Knowledge Market/ Exchange/Marketplace... (I don't want to start a flame war on "Open," software or "Closed," software and the availability from within this management tool) 5) I don't have the wording, but what about the central idea behind a Library? You check out titles, you return them, etc...Very simiilar to what this Synaptic replacement would allow...Anyone with some good ideas for a "Library," wording? Or are we going essentially for a "grass roots," kind of wording? -Anthony On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > 2009/9/1 Siegfried Gevatter : > > I have to add my voice in that I strongly dislike the name containing > > "Store", for the already echoed reasons. "Software Center" or even > > "Add/Remove..." are much better names, IMHO. > > > > I too am not comfortable with "Software Center", partly because it > will in all likelyhood have non-software in it, like themes, but to a > UK person the word "Center" makes me flinch. I don't like "Store" > because it inclines me towards thinking it's a for-profit venture, and > I guess that's because the word 'store' is now tainted by all the > proprietary software repos out there that have previously been listed. > > I'd be more inclined to like something that took the ethos of Ubuntu, > and the generic nature of what goes in the repository. Something > _like_ "Package Bazar". Given we already have a concept of 'packages' > in Ubuntu, I'd guess it's easily translatable. The term 'Bazar' has > historical and community influences which are overall positive. > > I don't particularly _like_ "Package" but I think it's better than > "Software" and whilst the term 'package' needs to be explained before > many will 'get it' I don't think it's that much of a stretch for > people to think of 'packages' of software coming from the 'bazar'. > > Just my 2p. > > Cheers, > Al. > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090901/51e97c2e/attachment-0002.htm From ajmctaggart at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 18:16:21 2009 From: ajmctaggart at gmail.com (ajmctaggart) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:16:21 -0000 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> References: <3bd91160908271131p7b4c507bu373ce7983e9c5284@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160908271220g1b018115v775e35a785dd2a4b@mail.gmail.com> <4A97AC5E.5070900@canonical.com> <1251804111.17057.11.camel@quest> <6228eb140909010729x7727f77ay130885e2ed146c53@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820909010804i2f761b42l47b9a772e2643a3@mail.gmail.com> <4f482c080909010842x5e30d7et6e21587010cc4494@mail.gmail.com> <20090901170216.GR4906@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <4f482c080909011016r60f8ecebs4d4f5ef59e48d8ec@mail.gmail.com> Bryce, So sorry, and yes, English is my first language :) I definitely agree Bazaar could be confused with "bzr,"...But it is a word that seems to align well with Ubuntu and the goals, etc...maybe we just need a solid synonym for a Bazaar... It seems like we want to express these ideas in the name... A place to EXCHANGE A free MARKET for individuals to grab packages, libs, etc. A LIBRARY in terms of order, documentation, cataloging, etc. A CENTRAL location to handle all things related to SOFTWARE'S INSTALLATION, UPDATES, DEPENDENCIES,etc I really think that Libraries and Open Markets are great descriptors for what is trying to be accomplished here... -Anthony On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Bryce Harrington wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Alan Pope wrote: > > > _like_ "Package Bazar". Given we already have a concept of 'packages' > > > On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 08:42:41AM -0700, ajmctaggart wrote: > > post, or bazzar? So what evokes this idea of a trading post or a bazaar > in > > Given that this word has been spelt three different ways in two posts, > it appears to fail the "easy to spell" test. ;-) > > Bryce > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090901/809b9035/attachment-0002.htm From mathiaz at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 1 21:40:55 2009 From: mathiaz at ubuntu.com (Mathias Gug) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:40:55 -0000 Subject: Server Team 20090901 meeting minutes Message-ID: <20090901204052.GB17060@mathiaz.mathiaz.net> Hi, Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online with the irc logs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090901. ==== FFE for bacula ==== ivoks reported that bacula 3.0.X was available from the ubuntu-bacula team PPA [1]. [1]: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bacula/+archive/ppa ==== Asterisk ==== Daviey announced that the Asterisk stack in karmic had been updated to 1.6. Discussion is still going with the Debian maintainers about the dkms version of dhadi. Testing is welcome. jmdault added that asterisk-addons needed a Feature Freeze Exception. A bunch of other packages (eg asterisk gui) will be made available from the ubuntu- voip team PPA [2]. ACTION: Daviey to follow up with the Asterisk Debian maintainers about adopting dkms for dahdi ACTION: Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6 [2]: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-voip/+archive/asterisk-1.6-testing ==== SRU Weekly review ==== The different bug lists were reviewed during the meeting. ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team. ==== MIR for ubuntu-fortunes and default install ==== nijaba proposed to file a MIR and get the fortunes-ubuntu-server package installed by default. ACTION: nijaba to write up a MIR and file a FFe for fortunes-ubuntu-server ==== Agree on next meeting date and time ==== Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September 8th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu- meeting. -- Mathias Gug Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090901/2f5c50ec/attachment-0002.pgp From brian at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 3 22:26:42 2009 From: brian at ubuntu.com (Brian Murray) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:26:42 -0000 Subject: Packages without bug subscribers Message-ID: <20090903212639.GM6386@murraytwins.com> Recently there was some discussion about packages that might have no one looking after bugs reported about them. One way to monitor bugs about a package, in Launchpad, is to subscribe to all of the package's bug mail. This can be done by going to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpid and clicking "Subscribe to bug mail". (Of course replacing apcid with the package you are interested in.) I went looking for these packages and have compiled a wiki page[1] with some of them. (A complete csv file is also attached to that page.) There are approximately 850 of these packages in main, and not having people subscribed to a package's bug reports may make sense in some cases. However, there are still clearly some packages that need monitoring and some bug cleanup done. The cleanup[2] can be fairly easy with the right tools too! How can you help? If there is a package that you or a team you are member of cares for - subscribe to the bug mail. Some teams, like ubuntu-x and desktop-bugs, have mailing lists specifically setup for their bug mail. Alternatively, review and triage a package's existing bug reports. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/MainPackagesWithoutBugSubscribers [2] http://www.murraytwins.com/blog/?p=45 -- Brian Murray @ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090903/e597c367/attachment-0002.pgp From rodney.dawes at canonical.com Sat Sep 5 14:33:07 2009 From: rodney.dawes at canonical.com (Rodney Dawes) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 13:33:07 -0000 Subject: [Ubuntuone-users] Limit Bandwidth Usage In-Reply-To: <4AA25D44.3080006@pobox.com> References: <4AA25D44.3080006@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1252157609.8517.0.camel@lunatari> Hi, It's already filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/418882 On Sat, 2009-09-05 at 08:44 -0400, Tony Willoughby wrote: > The limit bandwidth usage resets every time Ubuntuone is started. Is > this the design intent? It seems like a bug to me. > > If it's a bug, I'll be glad to submit one. > > > > > 0.94.0+r198-0ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090905/8af41039/attachment-0002.pgp From ted at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 02:26:02 2009 From: ted at ubuntu.com (Ted Gould) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:26:02 -0000 Subject: Should packages with PPA lineages preserve their PPA changelogs? In-Reply-To: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> References: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> Message-ID: <1252459558.25709.1.camel@shi> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:51 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote: > If we start with foo 1.0-0ubuntu1 in the archive, and I make a PPA fork > for foo 1.1-0ubuntu1, and end up going through multiple PPA revisions > (say, foo 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa1 through 1.1-0ubuntu1~ppa6), should the > changelog entries for those revisions end up in the final upload to > Ubuntu proper? Or should I purge them and keep the changelog "pure" to > real Ubuntu uploads? Or should their content be merged somehow? I've always deleted them and merged them into the Ubuntu upload. This is probably because half of my log messages there are something like: * #$(%*& PPAs. Bumping version. But, other people who are more expert may have different results :) --Ted -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/03b5915b/attachment.pgp From robertc at robertcollins.net Wed Sep 9 02:33:24 2009 From: robertc at robertcollins.net (Robert Collins) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:33:24 -0000 Subject: Should packages with PPA lineages preserve their PPA changelogs? In-Reply-To: <1252459558.25709.1.camel@shi> References: <4AA6FBF9.8010703@open-vote.org> <1252459558.25709.1.camel@shi> Message-ID: <1252459982.11074.1.camel@lifeless-64> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 20:25 -0500, Ted Gould wrote: > I've always deleted them and merged them into the Ubuntu upload. This > is probably because half of my log messages there are something like: > > * #$(%*& PPAs. Bumping version. > > But, other people who are more expert may have different results :) As long as the ubuntu version is >> the PPA version, so that it upgrades properly, I think its maintainers discretion. If the changes are interesting vs the last Ubuntu upload; preserve them [in some fashion]. If not, well there isn't a lot to gain by keeping them. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/a9d1ba18/attachment-0002.pgp From mathiaz at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 03:20:51 2009 From: mathiaz at ubuntu.com (Mathias Gug) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:20:51 -0000 Subject: Server Team 20090908 meeting minutes Message-ID: <20090909022047.GA6219@mathiaz.mathiaz.net> Hi, Here are the minutes of the meeting. They can also be found online with the irc logs here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090908. ==== UEC images ==== There was a discussion on how to track bugs affecting UEC images. The outcome was to use the "uec-images" tag. ubuntu-bug and apport should also use it when filling bugs from an UEC image. Test cases have been updated to include an EC2 test of the UEC images. That should be enough for now to make sure the UEC images are working correctly. ACTION: smoser to tag existing UEC image bugs with "uec-images" ACTION: mdz to follow up on ubuntu-bug/apport for uec images ==== EC2 AMIs ==== The release process for EC2 images was reviewed in view of Alpha6 scheduled for next week. ACTION: soren to ensure that smoser can update the UEC publishing scripts ACTION: smoser to add MD5SUMs for UEC images ACTION: soren to add manifest files for UEC images ACTION: smoser to open dialog with IS about automated publishing to EC2 and agree on a plan ACTION: soren to automate updating of ec2-version-query ACTION: soren to publish ec2-version-query in a more appropriate place The state of the EC2 kernel was also discussed. zul reported that a 2.6.31-rc6 kernel based on the Xen patches had been successfully booted on ec2. Merging the patch into the karmic tree was under way. ACTION: mdz to confirm ec2 kernel status for alpha 6 ACTION: smoser to add ec2-images tag to the relevant bugs ACTION: mdz to see that bug documentation is updated for uec-images, ec2-images tags ACTION: nijaba to fold #ubuntu-ec2 and #ubuntu-cloud into #ubuntu-server ==== Packaging and integration of Eucalyptus 1.6 ==== As agreed with the Eucalyptus team relevant bugs should be tagged with 'eucalyptus'. soren announced that Eucalyptus 1.6 had landed in Karmic. The installer experience has been reviewed by the Eucalyptus team and bugs have been filed. cjwatson is looking at them. ACTION: soren to triage all eucalyptus bugs, and use the 'eucalyptus' tag for bugs which should be escalated to the eucalyptus team ==== Alfresco appliance ==== The main blocker to produce an appliance was the dependency on Sun jdk. Its EULA needs to be accepted by the end user when deploying the appliance. ACTION: kirkland to build a proof of concept alfresco appliance ==== Appliance store ==== niemeyer reported that most of the code had been written. The store UI has already been integrated in Eucalyptus 1.6. ACTION: mathiaz to get niemeyer's proxy code packaged ==== Canonical application support ==== ACTION: zul to ensure rabbitmq-server gets reviewed and promoted ==== Directory items ==== 2.4.18 has been released on Sunday and the FF Exception has been granted. ACTION: mathiaz to upload openldap 2.4.18 ==== CIM/WBEM ==== mathiaz reported the spec was implemented. More testing is welcome. ==== KVM-QEMU testing ==== kirkland noted that most of the bugs on kvm / qemu were reported after RC. He asked for ways to increase the testing of kvm in the development release. ACTION: kirkland to speak with marjo about how to get qemu-kvm tested prior to release (and more generally server applications like it) ==== Server developer team in LP for ArchiveReorganisation ==== Package sets are available in Launchpad, and cjwatson was looking for the appropriate teams to have privileges on them. But there didn't seem to be an appropriate team for Server Edition. If the server team wants to take advantage of the ability to provide upload privileges for server bits without requiring core-dev, somebody will need to sort it out. ACTION: mathiaz to get a server dev team set up in LP and work with cjwatson to get it set up for archive reorg ==== Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs ==== The list [1] will be used to keep track of active bugs in the team. The list needs to be reviewed and kept up-to-date. [1]: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html ==== Progress on Roadmap ==== The ServerTeam Roadmap [2] is not up-to-date. ACTION: ttx to update server team Roadmap to reflect current projects [2]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap ==== Asterisk ==== The Debian VOIP hasn't responded yet. ACTION: Daviey to call for testing of Asterisk 1.6 ==== SRU review ==== ACTION: mathiaz to produce a list of accepted bugs for packages related to the ubuntu-server team. ==== Agree on next meeting date and time ==== Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September 15th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu- meeting. -- Mathias Gug Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/daf1a34b/attachment.pgp From snaggen at acc.umu.se Wed Sep 9 12:06:07 2009 From: snaggen at acc.umu.se (Mattias Eriksson) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:06:07 -0000 Subject: evolution-mapi Message-ID: <1252494361.28761.31.camel@saphira> It seems that evolution-mapi is out of sync with the rest of evolution. Evolution mapi in karmic is still on version evolution-mapi-0.26.0.1 from what I undestand, and that version has quite a few serious bugs, that are fixed upstream. It should be able to handle non-ascii characters, making it usable for people outside US. It would be great if karmic could use the evolution-mapi that is developed to work with the evolution version included. //Mattias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/380e05e1/attachment-0002.htm From scott at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 13:07:56 2009 From: scott at ubuntu.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:07:56 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing Message-ID: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> Are you running Karmic Alpha 5, or an even-more up to date Karmic? Are you feeling adventurous? Then I could do with your help testing some boot updates. Firstly though, I would ask that if you have coursework or homework due really soon; or something else that you really urgently need to do with your computer, that you pass this by. While I'm pretty confident things will work, if they don't, Murphy's law says they won't for you. Secondly if you're using network filesystems, please don't try this just yet - I'll follow up when the necessary update for those is ready. What you need to do: - Install bootchart and reboot. - Check that this gives you a baseline bootchart in /var/log/bootchart. - Add the ubuntu-boot PPA to your APT config: echo deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-boot/ppa/ubuntu karmic main > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntu-boot-ppa apt-get update - If you're running up to date Karmic, you can just "upgrade" from here; otherwise something like the following should work: apt-get install anacron at avahi-daemon cron dbus hal hostname \ module-init-tools network-manager procps rsyslog \ initscripts sysvinit-utils sysv-rc udev upstart - Make sure the install/upgrade is successful. - Reboot again. - Obviously check that it boots, and that you get a new bootchart in /var/log/bootchart - Mail *both* of these bootcharts to me (or the ubuntu-boot ML if you want to share) Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/690924f7/attachment-0002.pgp From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 9 14:16:39 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:16:39 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> Message-ID: <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> Scott James Remnant [2009-09-09 13:08 +0100]: > echo deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-boot/ppa/ubuntu karmic main > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ubuntu-boot-ppa Just to avoid confusion, the file needs to be called ".list", so please append ".list" to that line. > - Mail *both* of these bootcharts to me (or the ubuntu-boot ML if you > want to share) Before: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-karmic.png After: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-ppa.png Boot time is 50 seconds with both, just that with the PPA, it takes much longer to start gdm (presumably because services are started in the background). Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/3db759f4/attachment-0002.pgp From scott at canonical.com Wed Sep 9 15:15:08 2009 From: scott at canonical.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:15:08 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> Message-ID: <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 15:16 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote: > Before: > http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-karmic.png > After: > http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/tick-karmic-20090909-ppa.png > > Boot time is 50 seconds with both, just that with the PPA, it takes > much longer to start gdm (presumably because services are started in > the background). > The important thing is that the boot *works* with the PPA; I don't expect it to be faster just yet. Of course, there's another more secret PPA with a couple of go-faster bits ;-) Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/c0c46444/attachment-0002.pgp From scott at canonical.com Wed Sep 9 17:44:48 2009 From: scott at canonical.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:44:48 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <4AA7B931.1040906@canonical.com> References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> <20090909131638.GA3832@piware.de> <1252505719.2931.51.camel@quest> <4AA7B931.1040906@canonical.com> Message-ID: <1252514698.2931.102.camel@quest> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 08:18 -0600, Tim Gardner wrote: > Well, mine boots. ho-hum. How about the go-faster bits? > You wouldn't need them if suspend worked in -10 :oP Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/bf3d3bc4/attachment-0002.pgp From scott at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 00:37:04 2009 From: scott at canonical.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:37:04 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <357b51820909091626p4ce16972jd8c2ddcb3d1cdaca@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> <357b51820909091626p4ce16972jd8c2ddcb3d1cdaca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1252539436.2931.110.camel@quest> On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 01:26 +0200, Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) wrote: > Also, I've seen this: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1502/10092009118.jpg > This indicates that you haven't managed to install the entire contents of the PPA. That message can only come from the version of Upstart in the archive. Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/7c0e5369/attachment.pgp From scott at canonical.com Thu Sep 10 00:38:29 2009 From: scott at canonical.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:38:29 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> References: <4AA821D8.3040103@ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <1252539522.2931.111.camel@quest> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 16:44 -0500, Robbie Williamson wrote: > And if you are feeling insane...you can check out the "make it faster bits" here: > > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-boot/+archive/staging > To be clear, because I've just worked out what Siegfried below has done. YOU MUST *ALSO* INSTALL THE UPDATES FROM THE PRIME UBUNTU-BOOT PPA! "staging" contains _extra_ updates on top of them. You cannot install from the staging PPA on its own. Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at canonical.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090909/b0eefc4f/attachment.pgp From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 09:48:07 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:48:07 -0000 Subject: Please DON'T file feature freeze exceptions for bug fix only uploads Message-ID: <20090910084806.GB3377@piware.de> Hello all, In the recent days, the release team gets a lot of "feature freeze exception" requests which are just new bug fix only upstream releases. If you already determined that there are no new features nor API breaks, then please don't send them at all, since you already said that there aren't any new features to approve. We abolished the "upstream version freeze" ages ago because of that reason. We don't particularly care (for release management purposes) whether a fix comes from upstream or from the distro, we are just interested in intrusive and potentially destabilizing changes. Please take a minute to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze again. Thanks for considering! Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090910/02d472ae/attachment-0002.pgp From scott at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 12:31:30 2009 From: scott at ubuntu.com (Scott James Remnant) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:31:30 -0000 Subject: Call for Ubuntu Boot testing In-Reply-To: References: <1252498086.2931.44.camel@quest> Message-ID: <1252582289.2876.0.camel@quest> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 19:14 -0500, Travis Watkins wrote: > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:08 AM, Scott James Remnant wrote: > > - Mail *both* of these bootcharts to me (or the ubuntu-boot ML if you > > want to share) > > Before updates: > http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9544/travislaptopkarmic20090.png > After updates: > http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9544/travislaptopkarmic20090.png > I don't suppose you still have the .tgz for this second one? Scott -- Scott James Remnant scott at ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090910/23ad0e45/attachment-0002.pgp From ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com Thu Sep 10 15:46:50 2009 From: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com (Admin Junk Summary) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:46:50 -0000 Subject: Summary of junk emails blocked - 1 Junk Emails Blocked Message-ID: <15665.1252593996141.mlfjunkn.root@shserver> Junk Box Summary for: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com The 1 emails listed below have been placed in your personal Junk Box since your last Junk Box Summary and will be deleted after 30 days. To retrieve any of these messages, visit your Junk Box at: Login using your standard username/password combination. Junk Box Summary --------------------------------------------------------------------- rdzbnwtieimcdAli at adaptivetu... re: dentist data --------------------------------------------------------------------- Junk blocking by SonicWALL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090910/cf433cbc/attachment-0002.htm From adrianperez.deb at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 19:49:15 2009 From: adrianperez.deb at gmail.com (Adrian Perez) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:49:15 -0000 Subject: New MOTU: Benjamin Drung (bdrung) In-Reply-To: <1252595196.2855.17.camel@bert> References: <1252595196.2855.17.camel@bert> Message-ID: <1252608537.29893.0.camel@desktop> Wow, that's great! My best thoughts. On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 17:06 +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > ive Benjamin Drung a warm welcome to the Development team! -- Best regards, Adrian Perez -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090910/f1f3aa6c/attachment-0002.pgp From bhavi at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 10:49:19 2009 From: bhavi at ubuntu.com (Bhavani Shankar R) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:49:19 -0000 Subject: New MOTU: Andres Rodriguez (andreserl, roaksoax) In-Reply-To: <1252595554.2855.22.camel@bert> References: <1252595554.2855.22.camel@bert> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > I'm very pleased to announce that Andres Rodriguez just joined the MOTU > team! Please give him a very warm welcome to the team! > > Congratulations Andres :) -- Bhavani Shankar.R https://launchpad.net/~bhavi, a proud ubuntu community member. What matters in life is application of mind!, It makes great sense to have some common sense..! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090911/41316239/attachment-0002.htm From brian at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 19:01:23 2009 From: brian at ubuntu.com (Brian Murray) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:01:23 -0000 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> Message-ID: <20090911180118.GN7879@murraytwins.com> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:10:33AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:14:22 +0200 Daniel Holbach > wrote: > >Am Mittwoch, den 09.09.2009, 09:50 +0200 schrieb Daniel Holbach: > >> The experience we had in the session was that the channel got very busy > >> very quickly, which is why I suggested the creation of another, more > >> quiet channel. > > > >The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: > >https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html > > > >More opinions? > > We advertise #ubuntu-motu as the place to go to learn about packaging. > I don't think having it be the place to learn about packaging, except > if you want to review actual details about packaging, that's a > different channel works very well. I don't think this is a very good argument because the #ubuntu-reviews channel is not for just reviewing packaging as you say, rather it is for reviewing code. This would include reviewing patches that have not been incorporated into a debdiff. -- Brian Murray @ubuntu.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090911/c5709d3c/attachment-0002.pgp From soren at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 20:32:18 2009 From: soren at ubuntu.com (Soren Hansen) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:32:18 -0000 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> Message-ID: <20090911193216.GG5789@beamer> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 02:31:12PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > >It'd be great if we could extend the meme somewhat and have regular > >reviews in #ubuntu-reviews. > Do we really need yet another IRC channel for this? Reviews are > perfectly on topic in the regular development channels and be > conducting them in a separate side channel fewer people will see them > and learn from them. I think I prefer to have it in a separate channel. If I'm the on-call reviewer, I know that anything happening in that channel concerns me, and that I can largely ignore it when I'm not on call. There's a lot of other stuff going on in both #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu, and having to follow that closely to monitor for stuff for the reviewer would be tiresome. -- Soren Hansen | Lead virtualisation engineer | Ubuntu Server Team Canonical Ltd. | http://www.ubuntu.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 664 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090911/5603bde6/attachment-0002.pgp From soren at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 11 20:35:34 2009 From: soren at ubuntu.com (Soren Hansen) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:35:34 -0000 Subject: On-Call Reviews in #ubuntu-reviews In-Reply-To: <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> References: <1252340468.2571.6.camel@bert> <8303-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CB01F8@[70.211.40.222]> <1252482635.1311.17.camel@bert> <1252577662.17279.4.camel@bert> <9497-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6CE9EAD@[75.197.27.33]> Message-ID: <20090911193533.GH5789@beamer> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:10:33AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: >>The Launchpad Team had a similar discussion already: >>https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg00830.html > The Launchpad team isn't doing distro development Indeed, they are not. However, they do have what to me seems like an excellent review process and culture going on. > and it would be prudent not to learn too many lessons about how Ubuntu > should work from their very different project. The fact that they're not working on a distro doesn't automatically invalidate any and all experiences they've gathered. Just sayin'. -- Soren Hansen | Lead virtualisation engineer | Ubuntu Server Team Canonical Ltd. | http://www.ubuntu.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 664 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090911/cc73844c/attachment-0002.pgp From superm1 at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 15 21:34:39 2009 From: superm1 at ubuntu.com (Mario Limonciello) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:34:39 -0000 Subject: Call for testing on NVIDIA hardware on Karmic Message-ID: <76715d500909151334rf5c70e0n248cce381246dee9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys: As some people might be aware, very recent NVIDIA hardware has been unable to boot Karmic live disks. I've discovered the root cause of this problem and written a patch as a band-aid. Upstream isn't keen upon fixing it with the band-aid, but wants to make architectural changes to the X server instead. We will intend on carrying the band-aid patch until those architectural changes are fleshed out and arrive in a newer X release (LL or MM likely). I'd like if I can get some feedback on the patch though from people with NVIDIA hardware before uploading it to the archive as a preventative measure not to make things worse. So if you've got NVIDIA hardware (either that did or didn't work with karmic), please follow these steps: 1. Download a recent i386 live CD, ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, mythbuntu, whatever you want. 2. Boot said live cd 3. Switch to VT1 4. If gdm/kdm started successfully, stop them. 5. Install this deb: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31853079/xserver-xorg-video-nv_2.1.14-2ubuntu3_i386.deb 6. Either startx/restart gdm/restart kdm 7. Take note whether X started and report back to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nv/+bug/385658or to this ML post Hopefully this should get more people with NVIDIA hardware to boot up to X, without causing anyone to* lose* the ability to boot X. Thanks, -- Mario Limonciello superm1 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090915/aabe0c63/attachment-0002.htm From ubuntu at psycho.i21k.de Wed Sep 16 23:03:37 2009 From: ubuntu at psycho.i21k.de (Siggy Brentrup) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:03:37 +0200 Subject: When to mount /lib and /usr/lib ? Message-ID: <20090916220337.GD18439@puntila.winnegan.fake> I'm really unsure whether this is the list to ask this question on with upstart not yet implementing a dependency based boot sequence the upstart-devel list seems inappropriate to me. In the course of my tiny usb-booster project [1] security considerations (cf [2]) make it necessary to verify the SHA256 sum before mounting /lib resp. /usr/lib partitions from a memory stick. The question now is if it's early enough to mount /lib when rc?.d scripts are run or should it even be done early in inittab? Also take into consideration that calculating the SHA256 sum of the whole /lib partition takes about 20s while /usr/lib requires an ample 90s. If interested you may also want to refer to [3] where I try to give some motivation, caveats and outline how to use the approach. If anything seems unclear feel free to use the "Ask a question" button on [1]. Thanks in advance for your comments Siggy [1] https://launchpad.net/booster [2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/booster/+bug/426362 [3] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bsb/booster/trunk/annotate/head%3A/README ps: Please let me repeat what I wrote when pushing the code to lp: DON'T YET USE THE CODE, IT'S WORK IN PROGRESS, I intend to release it RSN. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org+ |30 days until|bsb-at-psycho-dot-informationsanarchistik-dot-de| |www.Ubucon.de|or: bsb-at-psycho-dot-i21k-dot-de| +-------> ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam <--------+ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090917/da26154f/attachment-0002.pgp From steve.langasek at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 17 08:23:27 2009 From: steve.langasek at ubuntu.com (Steve Langasek) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:23:27 -0700 Subject: When to mount /lib and /usr/lib ? In-Reply-To: <20090916220337.GD18439@puntila.winnegan.fake> References: <20090916220337.GD18439@puntila.winnegan.fake> Message-ID: <20090917072327.GA23100@dario.dodds.net> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:03:37AM +0200, Siggy Brentrup wrote: > I'm really unsure whether this is the list to ask this question on > with upstart not yet implementing a dependency based boot sequence the > upstart-devel list seems inappropriate to me. > In the course of my tiny usb-booster project [1] security > considerations (cf [2]) make it necessary to verify the SHA256 sum > before mounting /lib resp. /usr/lib partitions from a memory stick. > The question now is if it's early enough to mount /lib when rc?.d > scripts are run or should it even be done early in inittab? Also take > into consideration that calculating the SHA256 sum of the whole /lib > partition takes about 20s while /usr/lib requires an ample 90s. No. /lib must be on the root filesystem. Whatever you're doing here, if it needs to be done before /lib is mounted then it needs to be done in the initramfs. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek at ubuntu.com vorlon at debian.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090917/3f86e19f/attachment-0002.pgp From ubuntu at psycho.i21k.de Fri Sep 18 04:34:12 2009 From: ubuntu at psycho.i21k.de (Siggy Brentrup) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:34:12 +0200 Subject: When to mount /lib and /usr/lib ? In-Reply-To: <20090917072327.GA23100@dario.dodds.net> References: <20090916220337.GD18439@puntila.winnegan.fake> <20090917072327.GA23100@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <20090918033412.GP18439@puntila.winnegan.fake> Sorry, I forgot this one in my postponed folder :(. Hi Steve, thanks for your reply. I was wondering why I didn't have your gpg key in my keyring until I realized it's a new one. From 1995 to 2004 I was known as bsb at debian.org. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 00:23 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:03:37AM +0200, Siggy Brentrup wrote: > > The question now is if it's early enough to mount /lib when rc?.d > > scripts are run or should it even be done early in inittab? Also take > > into consideration that calculating the SHA256 sum of the whole /lib > > partition takes about 20s while /usr/lib requires an ample 90s. > No. /lib must be on the root filesystem. Whatever you're doing here, if it > needs to be done before /lib is mounted then it needs to be done in the > initramfs. In my approach /lib is on the root filesystem and is later on shadowed by mounting a memory stick partition with identical contents on /lib. This works fine with mounting by label in /etc/fstab but has a grave security issue if you can't be sure the stick isn't exchanged by an identically looking one with malicious library code on it. Annoying saw-like sounds from the HD are gone, everything seems to be noticibly faster. In order to be sure that a partition to be mounted is identical to the one created after the last upgrade I verify it's sha256sum before actually mounting a partition. I'm doing all this because I have to extend the useful life of my Vaio laptop for some months, I can't afford to buy a new laptop before say spring 2010 if things go bad and they seem to do so. I'm publishing it on launchpad because there are others in similar situations who want to run current software on outdated machines. I know some of them in my home town, they are just too timid to speak up. Thanks for your response Siggy -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org+ |29 days until|bsb-at-psycho-dot-informationsanarchistik-dot-de| |www.Ubucon.de|or: bsb-at-psycho-dot-i21k-dot-de| +-------> ceterum censeo javascriptum esse restrictam <--------+ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090918/e538f402/attachment-0002.pgp From soren at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 22 08:51:16 2009 From: soren at ubuntu.com (Soren Hansen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:51:16 +0200 Subject: Packaging Help In-Reply-To: <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> References: <1253542621.23898.18.camel@bert> <13828-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6DD4FBA@[75.199.131.122]> Message-ID: <20090922075116.GA4412@linux2go.dk> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:43:46AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > I see the sense of the theory, but PPAs are built on Ubuntu, not part > of Ubuntu. Much as development on Ubuntu is offtopic in > #ubuntu-devel, I don't think this is something we have the resources > to take on. This is not true. We've got a /lot/ of time and ressources. We just choose to use them differently. I'm not being pedantic, I honestly believe this difference is essential. It may be perfectly reasonable for us to /decide/ that we don't want to shift our priorities to accomodate this new task, but we /do/ have the power to make that decision. Saying that we don't have the ressources skews the discussion by making us seem helplessly determined when we're really not. -- Soren Hansen | Lead virtualisation engineer | Ubuntu Server Team Canonical Ltd. | http://www.ubuntu.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 664 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090922/8a0159aa/attachment-0002.pgp From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Wed Sep 23 23:43:29 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:43:29 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? Message-ID: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> Hello all, many of us have added metadata to Ubuntu package patches for a while now, following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines This was discussed a while ago with Debian, and now resulted in a similar proposal for Debian (see below). Debian's proposal is not vendor-specific (like our's), and also more flexible. I'd like to update our PatchTaggingGuidelines to refer to the DEP3 now, and give some updated Ubuntu examples. That doesn't mean that we need to do a rush and convert all our patches to the new format, but whenever we create a new one, or work on an existing one, we should update the meta information. (Keep in mind that these are "guidelines", not "policy"). Does anyone have objections to that? Thanks, Martin ----- Forwarded message from Raphael Hertzog ----- Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:03:37 +0200 From: Raphael Hertzog To: debian-devel-announce at lists.debian.org Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50 autolearn=no version=3.2.5 Mail-Followup-To: debian-devel at lists.debian.org Hello, after several rounds of discussion on -devel, we now have a new standard defining meta-information to integrate on patches that we distribute/apply in our packages: http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep3/ I just changed the status of this Debian Enhancement Proposal to CANDIDATE, that means that you are all encouraged to make use of it and try it out for real. Hopefully, http://patch-tracker.debian.org will gain support of this format and will allow smarter browsing based on those information. You are welcome to share your feedback about this format on -devel, if we identify shortcomings or possible enhancements, we can still update the proposal (but only after we had time to get some real feedback based on actual usage of this format). Feel free to update (Debian specific) tools that generate patches to auto-generate a DEP3 header ready to be filled by the maintainer. Using the format is a clear step forward towards more transparency on our local changes, but it should not be difficul to use, thus some integration in our tools is welcome. Cheers, -- Rapha?l Hertzog ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090924/7f548049/attachment-0002.pgp From zack at debian.org Thu Sep 24 14:15:17 2009 From: zack at debian.org (Stefano Zacchiroli) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:15:17 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> Message-ID: <20090924131517.GA20268@usha.takhisis.invalid> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:46:50AM +0100, James Westby wrote: > > I'd like to update our PatchTaggingGuidelines to refer to the DEP3 > > now, and give some updated Ubuntu examples. > > However, it's not clear that they are finalised, given further discussion > on debian-devel. While it may not be an incompatible change, are we > better off playing "wait and see" to avoid perhaps switching twice? FWIW, the initiative (as obvious from the subject line) is following the DEP process. A consequence of that is that it will be (hopefully) clear when the proposal is finalized, i.e., when it reaches the ACCEPTED state. The state can be monitored both in the DEP text itself and at http://dep.debian.net/ . As Raphael said, the current CANDIDATE version is relatively stable, but you might want to wait for ACCEPTED before starting "traducing" your current metadata. In case you intend to fully adhere to DEP3, it would be nice to state it more clearly in the wiki page, so that we avoid duplicated (and possibly incoherent documentation). I'm confident that, if you have purely wording / presentation improvements that justify having different doc, Raphael (as the current DEP driver) will be willing to integrate that in the main text. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'? ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu ? tous ceux que j'aime -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090924/6631de13/attachment-0002.pgp From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 24 14:38:21 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:38:21 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20090924131517.GA20268@usha.takhisis.invalid> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> <20090924131517.GA20268@usha.takhisis.invalid> Message-ID: <20090924133820.GA2162@piware.de> Hello Stefano, Stefano Zacchiroli [2009-09-24 15:15 +0200]: > In case you intend to fully adhere to DEP3, it would be nice to state it > more clearly in the wiki page, so that we avoid duplicated (and possibly > incoherent documentation). I absolutely agree. My intention was actually to drop most of it, and just wrap the link to DEP3 with an intro paragraph and some ubuntu specific examples (also wrt. converting existing patches which followed the current Ubuntu patch tagging guidelines, etc.) Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090924/475e5b8e/attachment-0002.pgp From suji87.msc at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 04:50:13 2009 From: suji87.msc at gmail.com (suji A) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:20:13 +0530 Subject: Welcome new MOTUs: Marc Deslauriers, Michael Terry, Fabrice Coutadeur In-Reply-To: <1253815079.3665.12.camel@bert> References: <1253815079.3665.12.camel@bert> Message-ID: <12cb1da00909242050v2ab0833ase4d2cfa1ac887f7f@mail.gmail.com> Congrats to all...... Regards, Suji A On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello everybody, > > we'd like to announce that three new MOTUs just joined the team. All of > them contributed a lot to Ubuntu and we're very very happy to have them. > > Marc Deslauriers works in the Ubuntu Security team and has done a lot of > amazing work in a short time. Keep it up! > > Fabrice Coutadeur has been working on lots and lots of packages already > and helped to clear up lots of obscure build failures, also is he > interested in video editing. > > Michael Terry has done great work in Canonical's OEM team but also in > getting rsyslog ready for Karmic and doing lots of merges. His main > objective is getting deja-dup into main. > > Please give them a round of applause and a warm welcome to the team! > > Have a great day, > Daniel > > > -- > Ubuntu-motu mailing list > Ubuntu-motu at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/4029858f/attachment-0002.htm From jussi01 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 08:06:01 2009 From: jussi01 at gmail.com (Jussi Schultink) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:06:01 +0300 Subject: Sponsorship deadline for UDS-Lucid approaching In-Reply-To: <20090925061844.GA2127@piware.de> References: <20090924221909.GA27282@vorlon.ping.de> <15387-SnapperMsgD8DB99B6C6E1AD8C@70.198.103.97> <20090925061844.GA2127@piware.de> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Martin Pitt wrote: > Scott Kitterman [2009-09-24 19:13 -0400]: > > As far as I know it was only announced via Jono's blog. I only found out > > because of a passing mention on IRC. I think a post to U-D-A would have > > been appropriate. > > +1, I totally missed it as well. > > +1 from me also. Usually it is sent to the mailing list, many people have relied on this previously for "official" news. Jussi. Martin > -- > Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de > Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) > > -- > ubuntu-devel mailing list > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/05ead790/attachment-0002.htm From cjwatson at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 10:15:09 2009 From: cjwatson at ubuntu.com (Colin Watson) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:15:09 +0100 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically In-Reply-To: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> References: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090925091508.GA5607@riva.ucam.org> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 02:31:26AM +0800, Arne Goetje wrote: > as you might know, we have a number of translation related packages for > a given language in addition to the regular language-packs. For example: > language-pack-gnome-*, language-pack-kde-*, thunderbird-locale-*, > openoffice.org-l10n-*, etc.. > These additional packages should only be installed when the user also > has the main packages installed for which the translations make sense. > The functionality to detect this and mark the additional packages for > installation is currently in language-selector. > That means, we currently have the situation that a user needs to run > language-selector manually in order to get full language support installed. > > A related bug report for this is here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/434173 > > I have created a command line tool as part of language-selector, which > does the check for missing packages, so it's not necessary to run the > full gnome-language-selector for this task. This is great, thanks. > The code is here: lp:~arnegoetje/language-selector/language-selector-karmic > > The tool is called 'check-language-support' and can optionally take the > argument -l, followed by a language-code (e.g. es_US, fi, zh-hant, > ca_ES at valencia) > It returns a list of missing packages, separated by space. > If no language argument is given, the code will check for all already > installed language-packs or those which are marked as to be installed > and return the list of missing packages for all languages on the system. Can we get this into the archive as soon as possible? Is somebody already looking at sponsoring this, or do you need (e.g.) me to do it? > The idea is, that the installer runs this tool if network connectivity > is available before the packages are actually installed, parses the > output of 'check-language-support -l TARGET_LANGUAGE_CODE' and mark > those packages for installation. Then the user will get a fully > localized system right from the start. In fact, I think the installer should just run it unconditionally, as some of the necessary packages may be available on the CD. (The fact that we can now include only *some* of the necessary packages on CDs relatively easily is a big advantage of this work, as I understand it.) I think I can implement this in pkgsel and ubiquity fairly straightforwardly. There's one extra feature I'll need in check-language-support, though: pkgsel has an option to install support for all languages, which is used in all special cases. I have a branch for this but some problems with the upgrade to bzr 2.0 mean that I apparently can't push this to Launchpad at the moment; instead, I've attached a merge directive to this mail which you can merge using 'bzr merge check-all.bundle'. Thanks, -- Colin Watson [cjwatson at ubuntu.com] -------------- next part -------------- # Bazaar merge directive format 2 (Bazaar 0.90) # revision_id: cjwatson at canonical.com-20090925090704-y2poysa7k9ewog30 # target_branch: ../language-selector-karmic # testament_sha1: 95a7ec6f1ee4aa91ba8e895f33a39f74f93e5c0b # timestamp: 2009-09-25 10:12:20 +0100 # base_revision_id: arne at canonical.com-20090923174456-ehiurxarbx7z3w7z # # Begin patch === modified file 'check-language-support' --- check-language-support 2009-09-23 17:44:56 +0000 +++ check-language-support 2009-09-25 09:07:04 +0000 @@ -23,7 +23,7 @@ if pkg in self and \ not self[pkg].isInstalled and \ not self[pkg].markedInstall: - self.missing.append(pkg) + self.missing.add(pkg) if pkgcode in self.pkg_translations: for (pkg, translation) in self.pkg_translations[pkgcode]: if pkg in self and \ @@ -31,7 +31,7 @@ self[pkg].markedInstall) and \ not self[translation].isInstalled and \ not self[translation].markedInstall: - self.missing.append(translation) + self.missing.add(translation) if pkgcode in self.pkg_writing and \ (pkgcode == self.system_pkgcode or \ @@ -49,7 +49,7 @@ not self[pull_pkg].isInstalled and \ not self[pull_pkg].markedInstall and \ added == 0: - self.missing.append(pull_pkg) + self.missing.add(pull_pkg) added = 1 else: if pkg in self and \ @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ pull_pkg in self and \ not self[pull_pkg].isInstalled and \ not self[pull_pkg].markedInstall: - self.missing.append(pull_pkg) + self.missing.add(pull_pkg) def __init__(self, options): self.BLACKLIST = os.path.join(options.datadir, 'data', 'blacklist') @@ -81,7 +81,7 @@ self.pkg_writing = {} filter_list = {} blacklist = [] - self.missing = [] + self.missing = set() self.system_pkgcode = '' for l in open(self.BLACKLIST): @@ -180,7 +180,22 @@ self.getMissingPackages(self.system_pkgcode) - + elif options.all: + # try all available languages + pkgcodes = [] + for item in self.keys(): + if item in blacklist: + continue + if item.startswith('language-pack-') and \ + not item.startswith('language-pack-gnome') and \ + not item.startswith('language-pack-kde') and \ + not item.endswith('-base'): + pkgcode = item.replace('language-pack-', '') + pkgcodes.append(pkgcode) + + for pkgcode in pkgcodes: + self.getMissingPackages(pkgcode) + else: # get a list of language-packs we have already installed or are going to install # 1. system locale @@ -209,7 +224,7 @@ for pkgcode in pkgcodes: self.getMissingPackages(pkgcode) - print (' '.join(self.missing)) + print (' '.join(sorted(self.missing))) if __name__ == "__main__": parser = OptionParser() @@ -218,6 +233,8 @@ parser.add_option("-d", "--datadir", default="/usr/share/language-selector/", help=_("alternative datadir")) + parser.add_option("-a", "--all", action='store_true', default=False, + help=_("check all available languages")) (options, args) = parser.parse_args() # sanity check for language code === modified file 'data/check-language-support.1' --- data/check-language-support.1 2009-09-23 16:55:04 +0000 +++ data/check-language-support.1 2009-09-25 09:05:14 +0000 @@ -15,5 +15,8 @@ \fB\-d\fR DATADIR, \fB\-\-datadir\fR=\fIDATADIR\f use an alternative data directory instead of the default .B /usr/share/language\-selector +.TP +\fB\-a\fR, \fB\-\-all\fR +check all available languages .SH AUTHOR This manpage has been written by Arne Goetje # Begin bundle IyBCYXphYXIgcmV2aXNpb24gYnVuZGxlIHY0CiMKQlpoOTFBWSZTWYBayIkABYP/gGR0xEBZ7/// f////r////BgDJ23u+tWe7Pq22z1yKpn30qpHnevdxvu57X3Vtznr3TX1931fd9oaVNoho0nlPTI Bqm9DKY0ZNBMMmSeTRMkaMQA00GkmimnlPEmyDTJoynlT9MTJqYmk/U0/VT09TQnlDIA0ABKSJiM JPJiYSbUxqaPVTeRppPao0eVP0xNTyp5qg0BoM1BKERiJqbVPJ6o3pNqn6pvUaRp6RoA09RoADQN AaABJJCZCYmJmptKaZPT1NPUT9TRqeTNSeTUNojQaAAaASSITBT0aaEzRGEyZJmTSZNTPUynknkn qGjTRoMmjTMWAlSJGItmawvOeX33aDloiOFVQ+u1yCrAZaTlB42EhJvXYP5GU4EkGTkifxVHytvI sVIaA0HbzOGBIGLb5MMQJ/igIfX+XZq5EBxO9jAhUFUlUzTliQCBgcLyB9P0QHjt9r62JJnntydA 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H89O52zawS7YZzYC0lq8IRkqHOcLZ6clamfl17ngj6vRYuXzxsZa5WwsCi5gxEGGvHZWDm9fu5qe dbj4EHmNd+PBagCbhECxyeL3GAykAJsdOycxXlAWM6W/hy6x5rEFxl54pVfnQ0Id1pLKg3AQjcML B6VSybdFc8Tt0toidkkWwBz6RsvwaCIniCd9qCv3x2a4brcnws9K+IrbvG0AgjGjeCY2Hhhtf8Xc kU4UJCAWsiJA From zack at debian.org Fri Sep 25 10:25:13 2009 From: zack at debian.org (Stefano Zacchiroli) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:25:13 +0200 Subject: Patch Tagging Guidelines (aka DEP3) -- Adopting in Ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20090924133820.GA2162@piware.de> References: <20090923224329.GN25068@piware.de> <1253749274-sup-6245@flash> <20090924131517.GA20268@usha.takhisis.invalid> <20090924133820.GA2162@piware.de> Message-ID: <20090925092512.GA23627@usha.takhisis.invalid> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 03:38:21PM +0200, Martin Pitt wrote: > Stefano Zacchiroli [2009-09-24 15:15 +0200]: > > In case you intend to fully adhere to DEP3, it would be nice to state it > > more clearly in the wiki page, so that we avoid duplicated (and possibly > > incoherent documentation). > > I absolutely agree. My intention was actually to drop most of it, and > just wrap the link to DEP3 with an intro paragraph and some ubuntu > specific examples (also wrt. converting existing patches which > followed the current Ubuntu patch tagging guidelines, etc.) That would be ideal. But again, if you have text improvements to suggest, do not hesitate to submit them :-) TIA, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7 zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/ Dietro un grande uomo c'? ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie sempre uno zaino ...........| ..: |.... Je dis tu ? tous ceux que j'aime -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/380739b2/attachment-0002.pgp From klaus.doblmann at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 12:58:17 2009 From: klaus.doblmann at gmail.com (Klaus Doblmann) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:58:17 +0200 Subject: Public/private bugreports Message-ID: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> Hi guys, I've been a silent follower of this list for some time now and as what I'm about to say affects the development of Ubuntu via bugreports I've decided to post it here - forgive me if I'm wrong. I've submitted a few bugreports of app-crashes in the last few days during my testing of Karmic and before submitting the bug I always look for duplicates - which launchpad lists. Well, it does so in _some_ cases but not in all. When submitting an application crash the bug report is set to be "private" therefore if somebody else submits the same crash report, the previous one doesn't shop up in launchpad until after you've submitted the bug and it's automatically set to be a duplicate. This behaviour leads to many duplicate bugreports and quite a few hours wasted by the community spent filing these reports. Maybe this behaviour can be changed - or somebody can tell me the reason for the bugreports being marked as "private" by default? cheers, Klaus -- Klaus Doblmann B.A. SIP: klaus.doblmann at ekiga.net Web: www.doblmann.de - wo der gute Film ein Zuhause findet Blog: http://www.straightrazorguy.net Associate Member of the Free Software Foundation (#7570) OpenPGP-Key: http://www.doblmann.de/pgp_key.asc Bitte vermeiden Sie es, mir Dokumente im Word- oder Powerpoint-Format zu senden! Nutzen Sie eine kostenlose, freie Alternative zu Word&Co: http://de.openoffice.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3181 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/0a0e590d/attachment-0002.bin From martin.pitt at ubuntu.com Fri Sep 25 13:09:15 2009 From: martin.pitt at ubuntu.com (Martin Pitt) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:09:15 +0200 Subject: Getting translation packages installed automagically In-Reply-To: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> References: <4ABA697E.7050802@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20090925120915.GD2127@piware.de> Hello Arne, Arne Goetje [2009-09-24 2:31 +0800]: > Also, when a user adds packages to his system, which come with > additional localization packages, the localization packages should be > pulled automatically for the languages the user has installed on his system. Some ideas for this: Add an interactive upgrade hook to these packages's postinst, which call your new script in a "package postinst" mode. Instead of printing out missing packages, it would trigger the "You need to install additional packages to get full translation support" notice. We already have this mechanism after a networkless installation, and could make it easily available. This requires actually modifying packages like tbird or OO.o. I don't think that's a major problem since we have Ubuntu-specific packages for them anyway. If this would need to be done to a large number of packages, this would become impractical. I have some ideas for that case as well, but I guess it's a very small scale problem right now? The drawback of this is that it doesn't feel tightly integrated; it however works with plain apt-get. So to improve this, we could also have synaptic/software-store call this script after selecting new packages, and mark the missing translation ones automatically. This would require an extension to your script to not check the packages which are currently installed, but for packages which are about to be installed. Thoughts? Martin -- Martin Pitt | http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/07dd40bc/attachment-0002.pgp From adrianperez.deb at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 13:54:44 2009 From: adrianperez.deb at gmail.com (Adrian Perez) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:54:44 -0400 Subject: Welcome new MOTUs: Marc Deslauriers, Michael Terry, Fabrice Coutadeur In-Reply-To: <1253815079.3665.12.camel@bert> References: <1253815079.3665.12.camel@bert> Message-ID: <1253883284.8833.2.camel@desktop> Glad to know. I've followed Deslauriers work, I'm not aware of the other people, but they should be great as well. So congratulations! On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 19:57 +0200, Daniel Holbach wrote: > Hello everybody, > > we'd like to announce that three new MOTUs just joined the team. All of > them contributed a lot to Ubuntu and we're very very happy to have them. > > Marc Deslauriers works in the Ubuntu Security team and has done a lot of > amazing work in a short time. Keep it up! > > Fabrice Coutadeur has been working on lots and lots of packages already > and helped to clear up lots of obscure build failures, also is he > interested in video editing. > > Michael Terry has done great work in Canonical's OEM team but also in > getting rsyslog ready for Karmic and doing lots of merges. His main > objective is getting deja-dup into main. > > Please give them a round of applause and a warm welcome to the team! > > Have a great day, > Daniel > > -- Best regards, Adrian Perez -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/6d6931f2/attachment-0002.pgp From klaus.doblmann at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 20:43:37 2009 From: klaus.doblmann at gmail.com (Klaus Doblmann) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:43:37 +0200 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: 2009/9/25 Bryce Harrington > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 01:58:17PM +0200, Klaus Doblmann wrote: > > I've been a silent follower of this list for some time now and as what > > I'm about to say affects the development of Ubuntu via bugreports I've > > decided to post it here - forgive me if I'm wrong. > > > > I've submitted a few bugreports of app-crashes in the last few days > > during my testing of Karmic and before submitting the bug I always look > > for duplicates - which launchpad lists. Well, it does so in _some_ cases > > but not in all. > > When submitting an application crash the bug report is set to be > > "private" therefore if somebody else submits the same crash report, the > > previous one doesn't shop up in launchpad until after you've submitted > > the bug and it's automatically set to be a duplicate. > > > > This behaviour leads to many duplicate bugreports and quite a few hours > > wasted by the community spent filing these reports. > > > > Maybe this behaviour can be changed - or somebody can tell me the reason > > for the bugreports being marked as "private" by default? > > There is a chance with crash reports that the data they submit could > include private data (passwords, etc.). Since these bugs are > automatically filed, the reporter may not have the time (or know-how) to > determine whether it includes personal info, thus the apport developers > decided the safest approach was to file them all as private. > > You're right that this then requires triagers to do some work to review > and un-privatize the bugs. In practice (with Xorg bugs, at least) I > find it doesn't take me that much time to go through all the private bug > reports and make them public, but admittedly I don't do it as often as I > probably should. Perhaps there is way to automate some of this work > with launchpadlib. > > Meantime, don't worry at all about filing duplicate bug reports. On the > triager end, launchpad makes managing dupe bugs (relatively) cheap. > Indeed, having a large number of dupes helps flag bug reports that need > attention. > > Bryce > Thanks for your answer, Bryce! I've got one suggestion from a user's point of view: When one submits a crashlog that gets marked as a duplicate due to the reasons now explained, you obviously can't view the duplicate bugreport because it's set as private which is confusing to the average user committing a crash report. It would be a good idea to change the error message telling the user he can't access the bugreport because it is set temporarily set as private due to security-reasons until it gets reviewed. The current "you don't have permission to access this page" (it's something along these lines) is too non-descriptive and confusing to the average user - at least that's the way I see it. Klaus -- Klaus Doblmann SIP: klaus.doblmann at ekiga.net Web: www.doblmann.de - wo der gute Film ein Zuhause findet Blog: http://www.straightrazorguy.net Associate Member of the Free Software Foundation (#7570) OpenPGP-Key: http://www.doblmann.de/pgp_key.asc Bitte vermeiden Sie es, mir Dokumente im Word- oder Powerpoint-Format zu senden! Nutzen Sie eine kostenlose, freie Alternative zu Word&Co: http://de.openoffice.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090925/702ae123/attachment-0002.htm From erik.b.andersen at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 00:42:54 2009 From: erik.b.andersen at gmail.com (Erik Andersen) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:42:54 -0700 Subject: Karmic touch pad request Message-ID: <170bb4140909251642q364b9b1bs8c96854c1568d570@mail.gmail.com> From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Sep 28 21:33:24 2009 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:24 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: click enabled by default. I would like to put my vote in for having it enabled by default and also having the touchpad disabled by default when you are typing. (Such an option does exist in karmic) Here's why I think it should be that way: In windows, the default is to click when the touch pad is tapped. That means that most likely new Ubuntu users that try karmic will think that Ubuntu (or Linux for that matter) doesn't work properly with touch pads. As far as experienced users, some don't like tap to click, but they are experienced users, and are probably used to turning it off. Also, look at the numbers on this brainstorm idea. Brainstorm LinkAt the time of writing this email, 88 said they supported having tap to click on by default, 1 person said they didn't care, and 11 wanted it off by default. That's 88 percent in favor of having tap to click on by default! As far as disabling the touch pad while typing, it will solve the most common reason people turn the touch pad off. At the same time, I think it would be pretty hard physically to use the touch pad and keyboard at the same time and most programs wouldn't require require you to do this anyways. On top of that, this feature could also be turned off by advanced users. So that way, we would (hopefully) have a win-win situation. Thanks, Erik --0016e64b16a2f472bd04746f829f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Sep 28 21:33:24 2009 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:24 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: tap to click enabled by default. I would like to put my vote in for having = it enabled by default and also having the touchpad disabled by default when= you are typing. (Such an option does exist in karmic)
Here's why I think it should be that way:
In windows, the default is= to click when the touch pad is tapped. That means that most likely new Ubu= ntu users that try karmic will think that Ubuntu (or Linux for that matter)= doesn't work properly with touch pads.
As far as experienced users, some don't like tap to click, but they are= experienced users, and are probably used to turning it off.
Also, look= at the numbers on this brainstorm idea. Brainstorm Link At the time of writ= ing this email, 88 said they supported having tap to click on by default, 1= person said they didn't care, and 11 wanted it off by default. That= 9;s 88 percent in favor of having tap to click on by default!

As far as disabling the touch pad while typing, it will solve the most = common reason people turn the touch pad off. At the same time, I think it w= ould be pretty hard physically to use the touch pad and keyboard at the sam= e time and most programs wouldn't require require you to do this anyway= s. On top of that, this feature could also be turned off by advanced users.= So that way, we would (hopefully) have a win-win situation.

Thanks,
Erik



--0016e64b16a2f472bd04746f829f-- From klaus.doblmann at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 09:25:10 2009 From: klaus.doblmann at gmail.com (Klaus Doblmann) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:25:10 +0200 Subject: Public/private bugreports In-Reply-To: <20090926010316.GE32143@bryceharrington.org> References: <1253879897.7253.5.camel@klaus-imac> <20090925180813.GD32143@bryceharrington.org> <20090926010316.GE32143@bryceharrington.org> Message-ID: <1253953510.6818.6.camel@klaus-imac> Am Freitag, den 25.09.2009, 18:03 -0700 schrieb Bryce Harrington: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 09:43:37PM +0200, Klaus Doblmann wrote: > > I've got one suggestion from a user's point of view: When one submits a > > crashlog that gets marked as a duplicate due to the reasons now explained, > > you obviously can't view the duplicate bugreport because it's set as private > > which is confusing to the average user committing a crash report. It would > > be a good idea to change the error message telling the user he can't access > > the bugreport because it is set temporarily set as private due to > > security-reasons until it gets reviewed. The current "you don't have > > permission to access this page" (it's something along these lines) is too > > non-descriptive and confusing to the average user - at least that's the way > > I see it. > > Can you point to an example of where this has happened? I am curious if > apport is doing this (which could be fixed, if so), or if it is just an > oversight by a human triager (which is not fixable obviously). > > Bryce It happened to me twice in the last few days. I don't think it was oversight but I think the triager just hadn't gotten round to look at the bugreport and thus it was still marked as private when mine got marked as a dupe. I expect this to happen quite a lot when breakages occur for many/most/all people during the development cycle of a new release as these generate a huge volume of crash reports in a very short timeframe. Here's one example where I encountered this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/436549 Klaus -- Klaus Doblmann B.A. SIP: klaus.doblmann at ekiga.net Web: www.doblmann.de - wo der gute Film ein Zuhause findet Blog: http://www.straightrazorguy.net Associate Member of the Free Software Foundation (#7570) OpenPGP-Key: http://www.doblmann.de/pgp_key.asc Bitte vermeiden Sie es, mir Dokumente im Word- oder Powerpoint-Format zu senden! Nutzen Sie eine kostenlose, freie Alternative zu Word&Co: http://de.openoffice.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3181 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090926/823c02d8/attachment-0002.bin From laney at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 26 10:29:23 2009 From: laney at ubuntu.com (Iain Lane) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:29:23 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1251583678.7245.7.camel@delen> <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090926092921.GA3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> Hi, On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 09:41:47AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >Just to report progress on this discussion - sabdfl has decided to >adopt the name "Software Center". > >The comments on this thread were very helpful, as were the forum [1] >and brainstorm [2] discussions/votes which showed pretty clear >opinions among the community. > >If interested you can track the progress here: > >https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/436648 > >[1] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1256242 >[2] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21362 Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this mean for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? Iain -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090926/74c42bd9/attachment-0002.pgp From laney at ubuntu.com Sat Sep 26 11:34:53 2009 From: laney at ubuntu.com (Iain Lane) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:34:53 +0100 Subject: Ubuntu Software Store: What it does, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <3bd91160909260245l688fe2ffr4ddee0cd9329cf08@mail.gmail.com> References: <1251644435.6073.6.camel@delen> <1251652478.6073.15.camel@delen> <86ecb3c70908311744o6fbfe10aicb52a30b226d73b5@mail.gmail.com> <4A9CE06B.60305@canonical.com> <3bd91160909010755i664538bdib611bc0c8036f5ea@mail.gmail.com> <3bd91160909260141rbbf33c9h9aae9da8a8752d6d@mail.gmail.com> <20090926092921.GA3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> <3bd91160909260245l688fe2ffr4ddee0cd9329cf08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090926103452.GB3380@home.orangesquash.org.uk> Greetings, On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:45:55AM +0100, Matthew East wrote: >On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Iain Lane wrote: >> Cool. Glad to see that community input is listened to. What does this mean >> for the store metaphor throughout the rest of the application? > >I don't think there is a strong metaphor running through the >application. That would be inconsistent with the idea that the name >"store" had two meanings. The only thing I can see is the use of the >word "Departments" on the first screen, right? It's not wholly out of >place even with the change of name, but I guess it could be changed to >"Categories" or similar. I'm sure the project developers will take a >decision on that. I remember seeing a "Shelf"* combo somewhere, but indeed I cannot find it now so it was probably excised already. Regards, Iain * Or something similar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090926/d2d320b0/attachment-0002.pgp From mdz at canonical.com Sun Sep 27 19:34:22 2009 From: mdz at canonical.com (Matt Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:34:22 +0100 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> References: <20090926014917.GA29752@atomicity> <425b6c490909252240i45d1be26x9404ceb21e2e4a25@mail.gmail.com> <20090926193827.GJ11457@atomicity> <1254037188.3367.1.camel@x200> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> Message-ID: <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> I tested karmic-server-i386.iso version 20090927.1 in KVM. I have been able to confirm that it gives me a reasonable-looking MANAGED-NOVLAN configuration on the CC (eucalyptus.conf attached). I did not try configuring a public IP pool yet. I haven't tested a node installation yet, though I am fairly confident the MANAGED-NOVLAN bit there is correct (as it is much simpler). There are some errors printed on the console during startup which I think have to do with registration failing: "ERROR: you need to be on the CLC host and the CLC needs to be running" (screenshot attached). I didn't file a bug about this, because I assume it is nothing new, just auto-registration still not working. I attempted manual registration (see attached screenshot) and it appeared to succeed. Running w3m http://localhost:8774/ to reach the frontend failed (500 server error), both before and after registration. The frontend doesn't seem to be working. I don't know why. I've filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus/+bug/437768 about this. Can anyone confirm or deny? euca2ools was not installed on the CC. Shouldn't this be part of the task, so it can be used for administration and debugging? I went ahead and added it to the Karmic seeds, for both the CC and node. I noticed that apport was not installed. This appears to be because the eucalyptus-simple-node task derives from standard, not server. Thus, the default server packages (like apport) are left off. I had to install it before I could report bugs with ubuntu-bug. I went ahead and committed this change to the seeds as well. -- - mdz -------------- next part -------------- # # Eucalyptus configuration. #### # These are to instruct the init.d script on what to start. #### # This variable points to where eucalyptus has been installed. EUCALYPTUS="/" # This is the username that you would like eucalyptus to run as EUCA_USER="eucalyptus" # Uncomment this field if you do not plan on using the dynamic block # store functionality of Eucalyptus # DISABLE_EBS="Y" # Uncomment this field if you do not plan on using the dynamic DNS # functionality of Eucalyptus DISABLE_DNS="Y" # This variable controls whether ws-security is enabled between # eucalyptus components. The default settings provide secure # connections between the Cloud, Cluster, and Node Controllers and we # recommend that this feature remains enabled. If you wish to disable security, # you must change this variable to "N" and manually configure the # services.xml for both Cluster and Node Controllers (see documentation # for more details). ENABLE_WS_SECURITY="Y" # This variable controls the level of logging output that appears in # various eucalyptus log files. The options are, in descending order # of verbosity, 'DEBUG, INFO, WARN, ERROR, and # FATAL'. The default is DEBUG (everything). LOGLEVEL="DEBUG" #### # These following are Cluster Controller configuration options. #### # This is the port the Cluster Controller will be listening on. CC_PORT="8774" # This option configures the Cluster Controller's scheduling policy. # Currently, this option can be set to GREEDY (first node that is # found that can run the VM will be chosen), ROUNDROBIN (nodes are # selected one after another until one is found that can run the VM), # or POWERSAVE (nodes are put to sleep when they are not running VMs, # and reawakened when new resources are required. VMs will be placed # on the first awake machine, followed by machines that are asleep). SCHEDPOLICY="ROUNDROBIN" # Powersave options. POWER_IDLETHRESH is the number of seconds that a # node can remain idle (i.e. no running VMs) before a powerdown is # attempted. POWER_WAKETHRESH is the number of seconds that # Eucalyptus should wait after attempting a node wake-up before it # will consider the node actually down (and not waking up). POWER_IDLETHRESH="300" POWER_WAKETHRESH="300" # The list of Node Controllers the Cluster Controller will communicate with. # # If you are running Rocks, you can run "rocks list host" to # find out the list of machines available to you (in our case we are # interested in the VM Container kind). NODES="" # The name of the Node Controller service. Change this if you want # to plug in your own Node Controller service. NC_SERVICE="axis2/services/EucalyptusNC" #### # The following are Node Controller configuration options. #### # This is the port the Node Controller will be listening on. NC_PORT="8775" # The hypervisor that the Node Controller will interact with in order # to manage virtual machines. Currently, supported values are 'kvm' # and 'xen'. HYPERVISOR="not_configured" # The maximum amount of memory Eucalyptus is allowed to use on the node: # if you leave this commented out, Eucalyptus will use all available # memory, otherwise it will use at most this value for ALL running instances. # MAX_MEM=2048 # The maximum number of CPU/cores Eucalyptus is allowed to use on the # node (at the moment we don't differentiate between cores and CPU). If # you leave this commented out, Eucalyptus will use all available # CPU/cores it can find. # MAX_CORES="2" # The size of the swap partition, in MB, for each instance started on the # node (default is 512MB). If the maximum disk allowed for the instance # is not big enough to accommodate the swap together with the root partition, # then no swap is allocated. If there is extra room left, then an "ephemeral" # partition will be created, available as /dev/sda3 inside the VM. # SWAP_SIZE=512 # Setting this to 1 disables the cleanup of instance files (root, kernel, # ramdisk) for failed and terminated instances. This is not # recommended for normal use, but it can be useful in debugging VM startup. # MANUAL_INSTANCES_CLEANUP=0 #### # The following are options for image storage on the Node Controller #### # This variable points to a directory which is used by the Node Controller # to store images of running instances as well as local cached copies of # images. The running images will be deleted after the instance is # terminated, but the cached copies will persist, subject to LRU cache # replacement and the NC_CACHE_SIZE size limit, below. So, this # partition should be at least as big as the cache size (or the maximum # space needed by all images, whichever is bigger) plus the maximum space # needed by the maximum number of instances allowed on the node. # This directory should be local to the Node Controller (as # opposed to a NFS share) for performance reasons. INSTANCE_PATH="not_configured" # The maximum amount of disk space, in Megabytes, that Eucalyptus is # allowed to use in the cache directory (INSTANCES_PATH/eucalyptus/cache). # A generous size is recommended. Setting this to zero disables caching. # NC_CACHE_SIZE=99999 #### # The following are networking options #### # VNET_PRIVINTERFACE and VNET_PUBINTERFACE specify the local physical # ethernet interfaces that eucalyptus should use to manage the VM # network. On the front-end, VNET_PRIVINTERFACE should be set to the # device that is attached to the same ethernet network as your nodes. # VNET_PUBINTERFACE should be set to the device which is connected to # the 'public' network. If you have only one interface, these should # be set to the same value. On the nodes, both should be set to # either the name of the bridge that has been set up by Xen (xenbr0, # eth0, etc), or the physical ethernet device that is attached to the # xen bridge (peth0, peth1, etc), depending on your xen configuration. VNET_PUBINTERFACE="eth0" VNET_PRIVINTERFACE="eth0" # (node setting only) VNET_BRIDGE should be set to the name of the # bridge that xen has configured. This is typically named 'xenbr0, # xenbr1, etc' on older Xen versions, and 'eth0, eth1, etc' on newer # Xen versions. The command 'brctl show' will give you more # information on your local bridge setup. VNET_BRIDGE="br0" # This indicates where we have a dhcp server binary. We use it to provide # the images with IPs: Eucalyptus provides its own configuration per # instance. VNET_DHCPDAEMON="/usr/sbin/dhcpd3" # Some systems have their DHCP daemon configured to run as a non-root # user. If this is the case, set the name of that user here (by # default, Eucalyptus will set up DHCPD configuration files and # directories as owned by root). VNET_DHCPUSER="dhcpd" # Following are example eucalyptus VM networking configurations. # There are four modes to choose from (MANAGED, MANAGED-NOVLAN, # SYSTEM, or STATIC) and each has its own sub-options. The first # modes (MANAGED, MANAGED-NOVLAN) configure eucalyptus to fully manage # the VM networks, and enables the ability to use security groups and # dynamic public IP assignment (with and without vlan tagging of # security group networks, respectively). VNET_SUBNET should be set # to an IP subnet that is free for eucalyptus to use (i.e. no other # system connected to your network directly is configured with # addresses from this subnet). VNET_NETMASK defines the size of the # subnet. VNET_DNS should be set to a DNS server that your systems # use (usually safe to use the same DNS that is configured on the # front-end). VNET_ADDRSPERNET can be used to limit the number of # instances that can be attached to each named security group # simultaneously. Finally, VNET_PUBLICIPS should be set to any public # IPs, that are currently unused, that can be dynamically assigned to # VMs. Of these options, only VNET_PUBLICIPS can be left blank or # undefined. If you are running in multi-cluster mode (more than one # CC), you should set VNET_LOCALIP to the local IP of the CC that is # accessible by all other CCs in the system. If VNET_LOCALIP is # unset, the CC will try to determine the list of all IPs currently # assigned to the machine at CC run time. #VNET_MODE="MANAGED-NOVLAN" #VNET_SUBNET="192.168.0.0" #VNET_NETMASK="255.255.0.0" #VNET_DNS="your-dns-server-ip" #VNET_ADDRSPERNET="32" #VNET_PUBLICIPS="your-free-public-ip-1 your-free-public-ip-2 ..." #VNET_LOCALIP="your-public-interface's-ip" # If you would like eucalyptus to not manage the VM network at all, # you can set VNET_MODE to SYSTEM. In this mode, VM interfaces are # attached directly to your physical ethernet, at which point they # will typically invoke a DHCP client to aquire an IP address. Use # this mode if you wish to manage VM IPs yourself, or allow the VMs to # pick up an IP from a non-eucalyptus managed DHCP server. #VNET_MODE="SYSTEM" # If VNET_MODE is set to STATIC, you can manually configure a set of # IP addresses that will be allocated to VMs at boot time in a first # come, first served manner. VNET_SUBNET, VNET_NETMASK, and # VNET_BROADCAST define your subnet (front-end must have an interface # configured on this subnet). VNET_ROUTER defines the subnet's # gateway. VNET_DNS is a nameserver address. It is usually safe to # get these settings by examining your front-end network settings and # duplicating them here. VNET_MACMAP is a list of mac address/IP # address mappings that you would like to be allocated to VMs at run # time (see example below for the format of this list). #VNET_MODE="STATIC" #VNET_SUBNET="192.168.1.0" #VNET_NETMASK="255.255.255.0" #VNET_BROADCAST="192.168.1.255" #VNET_ROUTER="192.168.1.1" #VNET_DNS="192.168.1.1" #VNET_MACMAP="AA:DD:11:CE:FF:ED=192.168.1.2 AA:DD:11:CE:FF:EE=192.168.1.3" # network configuration from the input configuration file VNET_MODE="MANAGED-NOVLAN" VNET_SUBNET="172.19.0.0" VNET_NETMASK="255.255.0.0" VNET_DNS="10.0.2.3" VNET_ADDRSPERNET="32" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-QEMU-startup-errors.png Type: image/png Size: 12570 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/1b01015d/attachment-0004.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-QEMU-registration.png Type: image/png Size: 13618 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/1b01015d/attachment-0005.png From nurmi at eucalyptus.com Sun Sep 27 21:10:42 2009 From: nurmi at eucalyptus.com (Daniel Nurmi) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:10:42 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> References: <20090926193827.GJ11457@atomicity> <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> Message-ID: <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> All, I'm also going through the 09272009.1 iso install process today on two dells. I'll have a more full (probably a similar to those already reported) summary later today PST. Regarding the init scripts/ordering; I thought it might help to propose a solution to the 'java services have to stop/start to be loaded' issue. Currently, the init scripts maintain a small state file in /var/run/eucalyptus/ws, which stores the names of the services that are currently 'started'. Each of the init scripts (cloud, walrus, sc) uses this file to determine the correct parameters to send to the actual process (/usr/sbin/eucalyptus-cloud). The parameters of interest are '--disable-cloud', '--disable-walrus' and '--disable-storage'. Moreover, if the process is already running, and the services is 'enabled' in /var/run/eucalyptus/ws, then the script will do nothing, report that the service is already running, and return 'success'. All of this is to say, if something were to write: storage walrus cloud into /var/run/eucalyptus/ws, then run 'start' on any of the three init scripts, all three services will be started, and running 'start' on any of the other scripts will return success and not stop/start the process. For example, if we put a small bit of shell in the cloud init script that essentially says 'if /var/run/eucalyptus/ws doesn't exist, and we're doing a start, then write all three services into the file and start', then the cloud init script will actually start all of the services. Then, the other services upon start can just do their auto-registration bits. I know this probably seems a bit convoluted, but I think it may help to simplify the auto-registration process for now. In any case, the ordering, with auto-reg in the init scripts, should be: eucalyptus-cloud eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to complete walrus registration) eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete sc registration) eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) Hope this helps! Regards, -Dan On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 07:43:40PM +0100, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > > Next steps: > > > > - Confirm MANAGED-NOVLAN configuration of the NC (I don't have the > > appropriate virtual networking set up to test the node install yet) > > I've asked Thierry to check this. > > > - Get auto-registration of CC/SC/Walrus working > > Problems I see so far: > > * eucalyptus-cc is started before eucalyptus-cloud in the rc.d order. > Shouldn't this be the other way around? > > * None of the scripts seem to wait for the service to come up before > moving > on, so the ordering won't help much until that's fixed > > The actual mechanics of registration seem to work fine, as evidenced by the > fact that it works when run manually. I think that once the ordering > problems are fixed, this will work OK. > > -- > - mdz > -- Daniel Nurmi Co-Founder, Engineer Eucalyptus Systems, Inc. 130 Castilian Dr. | Goleta, CA | 93117 Office: 805-845-8000 | Cell: 805-259-5269 Email: nurmi at eucalyptus.com www.eucalyptus.com ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/999b7cfa/attachment-0002.htm From nurmi at eucalyptus.com Sun Sep 27 22:08:01 2009 From: nurmi at eucalyptus.com (Daniel Nurmi) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:08:01 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> References: <4ABF1812.6000203@canonical.com> <4ABF8003.2080904@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927205252.GK11543@perseus> Message-ID: <425b6c490909271408u93dd8faofa8b56bd8884404d@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matt Zimmerman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 01:10:42PM -0700, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > > I'm also going through the 09272009.1 iso install process today on two > > dells. I'll have a more full (probably a similar to those already > reported) > > summary later today PST. > > > > Regarding the init scripts/ordering; I thought it might help to propose a > > solution to the 'java services have to stop/start to be loaded' issue. > > [...] > > I know this probably seems a bit convoluted, but I think it may help to > > simplify the auto-registration process for now. In any case, the > ordering, > > with auto-reg in the init scripts, should be: > > It is a bit convoluted, and I'm well on my way to having a (much simpler) > upstart configuration to accomplish this. I intend to set up the following > services: > > - eucalyptus (cloud, walrus, sc -- the bits which run in-process) > - eucalyptus-cc (the cluster controller) > - eucalyptus-nc (the node) > > For the first one, it seems that I need to pass "--disable-foo" if that > component is not installed or should not be started. There are also > --remote-foo options. What do those do? > > > eucalyptus-cloud > > eucalyptus-walrus (requires that 'cloud' and 'walrus' is up in order to > > complete walrus registration) > > eucalyptus-sc (requires that 'cloud' and 'sc' is up in order to complete > sc > > registration) > > eucalyptus-cc (requires that 'cloud' is up in order to complete cluster > > registration, and that 'cc' is up to complete node registration) > > I intend to do the registration at package installation time, rather than > when the service is started, so that package dependencies handle the > ordering for us. > > Another snag may be that, unless my understanding is incorrect, the cloud service is not running at installation time, which will prevent the ability to register. Is this still true? > The only possible snag I see with this is that we're determining the IP > address to use at registration time, so if the service moves to a different > host, we won't handle that automagically. I think that's probably OK for > the moment. > > My main unresolved issue is what to do about autoregistration of the nodes. > How do you suggest we handle that? > > The thing to consider here is timing; for sure, in order for an individual node registration to succeed, the following must be true: 1.) CC is up and running 2.) NC is up and running 3.) ssh public key of CC:~eucalyptus is installed in authorized_keys on NC:~eucalyptus when these conditions are met, then running 'euca_conf --no-rsync --register-nodes ' should succeed. That being said, I believe the opinion was that the node registration process could be kicked off by the admin manually, after the front-end has been in installed, whenever new nodes have come up. Registration of nodes is idempotent, so the process could also be put into the CC init script if partial automation is desired (CC would register whatever any nodes that are running every time it starts). -Dan > -- > - mdz > -- Daniel Nurmi Co-Founder, Engineer Eucalyptus Systems, Inc. 130 Castilian Dr. | Goleta, CA | 93117 Office: 805-845-8000 | Cell: 805-259-5269 Email: nurmi at eucalyptus.com www.eucalyptus.com ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/c997af71/attachment-0002.htm From nurmi at eucalyptus.com Mon Sep 28 00:09:29 2009 From: nurmi at eucalyptus.com (Daniel Nurmi) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:09:29 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <20090927214440.GO11543@perseus> References: <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <20090927162322.GY13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927212855.GL11543@perseus> <20090927214440.GO11543@perseus> Message-ID: <425b6c490909271609i5814bc67k858d7881fc03e584@mail.gmail.com> These port numbers are all correct, and indeed 8773 is for cloud, walrus, and sc. Regards, -Dan > It would also help to confirm which port numbers correspond to the above > services. So far I've surmised: > > 8443 web admin front-end > 8773 cloud API (does this also serve walrus and sc?) > 8774 CC API > 8775 node API > > -- > - mdz > -- Daniel Nurmi Co-Founder, Engineer Eucalyptus Systems, Inc. 130 Castilian Dr. | Goleta, CA | 93117 Office: 805-845-8000 | Cell: 805-259-5269 Email: nurmi at eucalyptus.com www.eucalyptus.com ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/c6dd9a8e/attachment-0002.htm From nurmi at eucalyptus.com Mon Sep 28 00:18:56 2009 From: nurmi at eucalyptus.com (Daniel Nurmi) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:18:56 -0700 Subject: UEC/Eucalyptus installation test: 20090927.1 In-Reply-To: <425b6c490909271609i5814bc67k858d7881fc03e584@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ABF39FA.70004@canonical.com> <20090927163447.GA11543@perseus> <20090927173156.GZ13423@riva.ucam.org> <20090927183421.GF11543@perseus> <20090927184340.GH11543@perseus> <20090927191605.GJ11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271310p72d83149w3cb115c949ec72de@mail.gmail.com> <20090927212855.GL11543@perseus> <20090927214440.GO11543@perseus> <425b6c490909271609i5814bc67k858d7881fc03e584@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <425b6c490909271618j113bbedcgcdb1469d956b699@mail.gmail.com> All, Here is a summary of my latest install from the latest server ISO (09272009.1). In a nutshell, the installation went very well from bare metal install, to running Eucalyptus in MANAGED-NOVLAN, to the UEC image booting inside Eucalyptus, and I did not encounter any problems that have not yet been reported: Regards, -Dan ========================================= install UEC front-end (no problems) install UEC node (only had problem with bridge not coming up automatically on node) on node ---------- # sudo ifup br0 on front-end ---------- # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-walrus 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-cluster cc1 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-sc cc1 192.168.7.68 # sudo euca_conf --no-rsync --register-nodes 192.168.7.31 # sudo /etc/init.d/eucalyptus-cloud restart # sudo euca_conf --get-credentials mycreds.zip # sudo apt-get install euca2ools # unzip mycreds.zip # . eucarc # euca-describe-availability-zones verbose AVAILABILITYZONE cc1 192.168.7.68 AVAILABILITYZONE |- vm types free / max cpu ram disk AVAILABILITYZONE |- m1.small 0004 / 0004 1 128 2 AVAILABILITYZONE |- c1.medium 0004 / 0004 1 256 5 AVAILABILITYZONE |- m1.large 0002 / 0002 2 512 10 AVAILABILITYZONE |- m1.xlarge 0002 / 0002 2 1024 20 AVAILABILITYZONE |- c1.xlarge 0001 / 0001 4 2048 20 # echo woot woot # wget http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/karmic/alpha-6/ubuntu-uec-karmic-amd64.img.gz # gunzip ubuntu-uec-karmic-amd64.img.gz # euca-bundle-image -i /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-11-generic --kernel true # euca-upload-bundle -b ueckernel -m /tmp/vmlinuz-2.6.31-11-generic.manifest.xml # euca-register ueckernel/vmlinuz-2.6.31-11-generic.manifest.xml # euca-bundle-image -i /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-11-generic --ramdisk true # euca-upload-bundle -b uecramdisk -m /tmp/initrd.img-2.6.31-11-generic.manifest.xml # euca-register uecramdisk/initrd.img-2.6.31-11-generic.manifest.xml # EKI=`euca-describe-images | grep eki | awk '{print $2}'` # ERI=`euca-describe-images | grep eri | awk '{print $2}'` # euca-bundle-image -i ubuntu-uec-karmic-amd64.img --kernel $EKI --ramdisk $ERI # euca-upload-bundle -b uecimage -m /tmp/ubuntu-uec-karmic-amd64.img.manifest.xml # euca-register uecimage/ubuntu-uec-karmic-amd64.img.manifest.xml # EMI=`euca-describe-images | grep emi | awk '{print $2}'` # euca-add-keypair mykey > mykey.priv # chmod 0600 mykey.priv # euca-run-instances -k mykey $EMI --addressing private -t m1.xlarge # IP=""; while( test -z "$IP" ); do IP=`euca-describe-instances | grep running | awk '{print $4}'`; done # ssh -i mykey.priv ubuntu@${IP} Linux 172 2.6.31-11-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Fri Sep 25 06:37:23 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux To access official Ubuntu documentation, please visit: http://help.ubuntu.com/ System information as of Sun Sep 27 23:12:19 UTC 2009 System load: 0.0 Memory usage: 3% Processes: 69 Usage of /: 6.6% of 9.92GB Swap usage: 0% Users logged in: 0 Graph this data and manage this system at https://landscape.canonical.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- At the moment, only the core of the system is installed. To tune the system to your needs, you can choose to install one or more predefined collections of software by running the following command: sudo tasksel --section server --------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 packages can be updated. 0 updates are security updates. Last login: Sun Sep 27 23:05:34 2009 from 172.19.1.1 To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo ". See "man sudo_root" for details. ubuntu at 172:~$ echo woot woot On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Daniel Nurmi wrote: > These port numbers are all correct, and indeed 8773 is for cloud, walrus, > and sc. > > Regards, > -Dan > > >> It would also help to confirm which port numbers correspond to the above >> services. So far I've surmised: >> >> 8443 web admin front-end >> 8773 cloud API (does this also serve walrus and sc?) >> 8774 CC API >> 8775 node API >> >> -- >> - mdz >> > > > > -- > Daniel Nurmi > Co-Founder, Engineer > Eucalyptus Systems, Inc. > > 130 Castilian Dr. | Goleta, CA | 93117 > Office: 805-845-8000 | Cell: 805-259-5269 > Email: nurmi at eucalyptus.com > www.eucalyptus.com > > ________________________________________ > > > -- Daniel Nurmi Co-Founder, Engineer Eucalyptus Systems, Inc. 130 Castilian Dr. | Goleta, CA | 93117 Office: 805-845-8000 | Cell: 805-259-5269 Email: nurmi at eucalyptus.com www.eucalyptus.com ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090927/054b027f/attachment-0002.htm From jeremy at novawave.net Mon Sep 28 07:39:29 2009 From: jeremy at novawave.net (Jeremy R.) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:39:29 -0400 Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?klogd_+_dd_=96_why=3F?= Message-ID: Excuse me; can anyone explain why it's necessary to send kernel log messages through dd, rather than letting klogd pick them up directly? Debian doesn't do it that way. Other than "it lets us run it as user klogd", which isn't a reason in and of itself. Why is klogd a particular security issue? What possible benefit is there to running a dd process as root instead of simply running klogd as root, or having klogd start as root and then drop privileges? Cheers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/6253b0de/attachment-0002.htm From kwwii at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 28 17:31:04 2009 From: kwwii at ubuntu.com (Kenneth Wimer) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:31:04 +0200 Subject: Question regarding the new login theme and using other gdm themes In-Reply-To: <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> References: <4AC0B2ED.204@gmail.com> <200909281208.50541.macoafi@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200909281831.04447.kwwii@ubuntu.com> On Monday 28 September 2009 06:08:49 pm Mackenzie Morgan wrote: > On Monday 28 September 2009 8:58:21 am Dennis Beekman wrote: > > I have to say that 9.10 alpha 5 looks great for my home computer and i > > will surtainly install the Beta and RC releases aswell... to follow the > > changes made to them. > > > > However something bothers me and noboddy else can answer this issue on > > any forums. > > The school where i do the IT Managment requires that the login screen > > has they're logo and a wallpaper chosen by them.... > > > > Before this was not difficult, i had adapted a gdm theme wich installed. > > but in the Alpha 5 of ubuntu i cannot change gdm themes anymore or so it > > seems. > > when i either select it from the menu or call "gdmsetup" from a console > > i can only select whether is wish to automagically login on not :-( > > Modifying gdm2 themes isn't quite the same as the old way. I've never done > it, but IIRC, you have to "compile" the theme. Unfortunately, my Google-fu > is failing me. I can't find a howto for creating gdm2 themes. GDM is now a normal gnome session, so it takes a gtk, metacity, icon and cursor theme like a normal desktop does. You can set them by defining the gconf keys for the use gdm. -- Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/attachments/20090928/509f02b7/attachment-0002.htm From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Sep 28 21:33:24 2009 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:24 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: (2-3 weeks) between FF and UIF so that we can give ourselves a target of getting major new documentation of new features ready by UIF. We then need a further decent period between UIF and DSF (2-3 weeks) so that we can focus on ensuring that all the strings referred to in the documentation match those used in the software. Translators of documentation also get a pretty raw deal. The NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline was two weeks after DSF. Now it's just one week after. So translators then have one week to translate any new documentation, which could include major documentation of new features. Again, I'd like to be in a position to assure translators that major new documentation is in place by UIF, so they can start work from then, and then assure them of a hard freeze at DSF, where they can focus on completing any last strings. At the moment, that simply isn't possible. I also see, although this doesn't directly affect the documentation team, that the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline is in week 20, instead of week 26 (Karmic), week 24 (Jaunty) or week 25 (Hardy) which gives them between 4 and 6 fewer weeks to translate software. I'd really like to see the timetable used in previous releases restored. Looking forward to hearing your views. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF