Request to remove "winesetuptk" package from universe

[Vincenzo Di Massa]

Hi.
As you already know I'm a new ubuntu/debian user, but an experienced linux 
user coming from Mandrake (Mandrake is a great distro, some weeks ago I just 
wanted to test ubuntu and now it is my main distro :-).

One impressive thing I see in ubuntu is that it gives you the option to 
install Xorg or XFree86.
Now, Xorg seems not to be in Debian, like Scott's patches are not into Debian.

It seems that ubuntu has already found a way to fork things remaining 
compatible to Debian.

The could be in universe both th wine distribution, and Scott's packages could 
provide the missing Debian (unusefull?) packages in a fake way.

This would let Scott packages to be installed per default and old Debian ones 
to be installed on request.

Can this be done?

Vincenzo.

Alle 06:17, sabato 12 marzo 2005, Scott Ritchie ha scritto:
> On Sat, 2005-03-12 at 01:32 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > Am Freitag, den 11.03.2005, 15:55 -0800 schrieb Scott Ritchie:
> > > On that note, I really, really want to know exactly why they're still
> > > not in universe.  They're more current, I can actively test them, and
> > > they don't confuse users by having only a partial and broken Wine
> > > install.  I still haven't gotten a straight answer from anyone other
> > > than "you're not the Debian maintainer"
> >
> > i and several others answered this question several times via mail and
> > on irc now, we also asked you several times to work together with the
> > debian maintainer, since we dont want step away from the debian
> > packages. you still havent solved the issue with the several libwine-xxx
> > packages i asked you about several times. and no, the answer never was
> > "you're not the Debian maintainer", the answer always was "please work
> > together with him to make sure the packaging is compatible between
> > debian and ubuntu". if i remember correctly the debian maintainer also
> > made a changelog entry in his package that he would consider use your
> > work for the debian packages too. did you contact him ? do you work
> > together now ?
>
> I'm sorry, I thought it was understood that the whole reason I started
> on this venture was because the Debian maintainer was simply unavailable
> and unresponsive.  He didn't return any mails of mine, didn't respond to
> requests to keep things current, and the packages were regularly 3 or 4
> months out of date - ancient, by Wine standards.  That's when I started
> making my packages and putting them up at winehq, and I only did it
> because the Debian ones were 1) broken and split needlessly to the
> confusion of users and 2) hopelessly out of date.  It got quite
> ridiculous telling users who came with support requests "oh, you're a
> debian user - install from source instead"  It's a little better now,
> since we can point Ubuntu users to the packages at WineHQ, but that's
> not an optimal solution and I believe we all know it.
>
> Despite my willingness to take over, make working packages, maintain
> them, test them, and interact with users and the Wine developers, the
> Debian maintainer kept his iron hand on them.  Maybe it's about ego, or
> mistrust of me, or perhaps a conflict of interest (the Debian maintainer
> does work for Transgaming, Wine's chief proprietary competitor), I don't
> know, but whatever his reasons are for acting this way seems to have
> little to do with creating great software.  Maybe I can guilt him into
> retiring, but it's just not the best way to go about things.
>
> I got really excited about the Ubuntu way when Jeff Waugh recruited me
> and Matt Zimmerman told me that things like that wouldn't happen in the
> Ubuntu universe, since we don't block other people's work like that.  I
> even got a personal message from Mark Shuttleworth telling me how
> excited he was about getting first class wine support in Ubuntu.  There
> are many great things we should take from Debian and contribute back,
> but the ability of maintainers to keep an iron lock on packages which
> they refuse to update or support should not be one of them.
>
> I don't mean to start a conflict with anyone here, or to drive a wedge
> between Ubuntu and Debian, but if I have to jump through hoops just to
> get a less ancient version of Wine added to universe, it's going to be
> needlessly hard for me to contribute to Ubuntu.  I've already spent
> about 40 hours just trying to weed through Debian beaurocracy (whose
> proposed solution was to submit about 100 bug reports on things I've
> already fixed so the Debian maintainer might feel inclined to do
> something).
>
> > > I'd like to maintain them personally.  I even got approved as an MOTU
> > > back in the days of yore,
> >
> > to my knowledge (and i should know since i'm in the MOTU lead team that
> > does the approval) you havent been approved as a MOTU. could you please
> > tell who reviewed which packages of you to do this approval ?
> >
> > ciao
> >  oli
>
> Perhaps I'm just confused or misinterpreting things.  Either way, there
> is no need for this to be difficult.  The packages upgrade cleanly from
> Debian or Ubuntu universe to the ones at WineHQ, and the ones at WineHQ
> are going to be current and great as long as I'm on the task.
>
> The WineHQ packages really are better, even from a common user's
> perspective.  Take a look at this news article, where the author went
> through the same process that most of our Debian and Ubuntu users go
> through with Wine (unless they give up in frustration)
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/03/02/1449240.shtml?tid=130
>
> There's no reason for this - he should have been able to get the right
> packages straight out of universe.  But that's not happening right now,
> and telling me to work with the Debian maintainer (who has turned down
> my requests to do so) isn't going to change that.
>
> I feel really bad about the kind of conflict such a simple thing like
> this is creating, but I also feel really excited - there's no need for
> it, and the spirit of Ubuntu really can help guide us here with the
> proper way forward.  I look forward to the day when we can run good Wine
> packages cleanly in Ubuntu, whether I am the "owner" of them or not.
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott Ritchie