Linux 2.4.x

[Stefan Kluth]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Matt Zimmerman wrote:

> (NOTE: this is an ubuntu-devel discussion, please follow up only to
> ubuntu-devel, and not ubuntu-users)
>
> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 11:07:33AM +0200, Stefan Kluth wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > You can get 2.4.x kernel sources from the "universe" component.
> >
> > ahem, and how?  I tried
>
> apt-cache search linux 2.4

ok ok I had set my mind on 2.4.27 which is too young for your
debian/unstable snapshot

> > BTW, what about precompiled 2.4 kernels in universe, simply using the
> > configs from debian?
>
> You can use them if you like, with the same disclaimer of support.

Yes, of course.  BTW, does this imply "no support at all", e.g. you won't
help fix a problem with a ubuntu/main package because I'm runnig the wrong
kernel?  Or just not support this kernel?

> > I think it will stay around for quite a while, at least as long important
> > add-ons like openafs only work reliably with a 2.4 kernel (I wish this
> > wasn't so).  For large installations in heterogenous environments like
> > universities and labs (open)afs is a popular solution to provide universal
> > file access.  Ubuntu doesn't support this at all at the moment and will
> > therefore be unable to penetrate this market.  You are probably aware that
> > exactly these (universities/labs) are early adaptors of new technology.
>
> We make this possible for those who must have it, but cannot commit to
> long-term support of Linux 2.4.  OpenAFS is one of rather a few exceptions,
> with nearly all major kernel extensions either supporting 2.6, or even
> integrated into mainline in 2.6.  If OpenAFS is not moving to 2.6, it risks
> being left behind as the community moves on.

There are unofficial patches and questions regarding kernel 2.6 on the
openafs mailing lists and AFAICT openafs plans to go to kernel 2.6, but I
haven't seen a schedule for this.

> > After booting into the 2.4 kernel there where only two minor issues:
>
> Focusing on modern kernels has allowed us to simplify system configuration
> and provide useful functionality, which won't be available if you downgrade
> to 2.4.x.
>
> > Would it make sense to propose working 2.4 kernels as part of ubuntu main
> > for future releases?  IMHO this is a requirement for any serious distro,
> > which claims to also support server and large installations.  Should an
> > entry to the wiki/faq be made?
>
> At the beginning of the release cycle when the package list was being worked
> out, we discussed this, and indeed a 2.4 kernel was on the supported list
> for a while.  The following concerns prompted its removal (there may have
> been more, but this is what I remember):
>
> - The clear viability and community momentum of Linux 2.6 as the
>   current-generation desktop and server platform
>
> - The relative lack of community support for previous-generation kernels, as
>   was most painfully felt with Linux 2.2 in Debian woody
>
> - The simplicity of development afforded by supporting a single kernel tree
>   for the entire distribution

I understand all of this.  However, supporting 2.4 kernels with some
caveats as regards desktop functionality would get you a foot into the
more conservative large installations.  My examples are the high energy
physics labs like CERN, FERMILAB or SLAC; all run afs and have O(10000)
machines to look after.  Currently CERN and FERMILAB are migrating from RH
7.3 to "scientific linux", i.e. effectively making their own distro.
( http://linux.web.cern.ch/linux/scientific3/CEL3-vs-SL.shtml )

Cheers, Stefan

---Stefan Kluth, PhD----------Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter-----------
-  MPI fuer Physik         -  phone:  +49 89 32354 468  -      OPAL&  -
-  Foehringer Ring 6       -  fax:    +49 89 32354 305  -      ATLAS  -
---D-80805 Munich, Germany----e-mail: skluth at mppmu.mpg.de--------------