<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> What we had was a rant followed by another rant followed by... I do not know, I stopped in the middle of the second rant. ScootK was very right when referring to the delete option. </blockquote><div>... </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> But if I do not like something, and I want to _help_ change it, I need to put out a very clear statement of what I think is wrong *AND* why I think it is wrong. </blockquote></div> C., Judging by your statements, above, it's quite clear that you haven't read most of this thread, and thereby have no real idea as to what the tenor of (most of) this discussion has been. It's therefore counterproductive for you to make disparaging claims about the conduct of others, whose conduct you apparently haven't actually taken any notice of. Please read the previous posts before assuming you have anything worthwhile to say about them. Everyone else, I'm aware that this is the "-discuss" list, and in point of fact, I subscribed (and occasionally participated on) the "-devel" list for years until a faction of the developers decided (with some good reason) that they didn't want non-developers on that list, and restricted all emails from those without special permission. Even then, I occasionally made suggestions and (what I thought were) intelligent comments, only to be faced with a process of waiting for my every email to be moderated, then being summarily told that my input wasn't important to anyone there (in many cases). So, while, yes, this isn't the list that most devs give a hoot about, and, in fact, seem to regard more as dev-null than dev-discuss, there simply isn't a better place to voice such concerns, and I'm pretty sure that it's by design. (To be fair, some people had been obnoxious on the old -devel list, so some of this behavior is understandable, if not justified.) As for the title of the thread, and whether this discussion should, instead, be with canonical: I asked both of those things, already (re-read my emails if you don't believe me), and got either no response, or (implicit) confirmation that this was as good a place as any. If you had something to say back then, why didn't you say it? Scott's replies were informative, and I thought I responded sensibly to them; did I misunderstand? (Those whose previous comments fit into the description of behaviors in this message are encouraged to keep their mouths shut, for once.) I'm sorry that this email has a much more angry tone than usual (for me, anyway), but asinine double-speak and baseless accusations (see the first paragraph) really bother me, and I know it's not just a personal quirk that they do; one would be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn't at least a little bothered by such behavior. For what it's worth, I came into this discussion hoping to outline specific problems in the GUI design process and come to useful conclusions about how to fix it. It would seem that, while many of the people here are, indeed, worth talking to, there are enough who are certainly not, that such an effort is basically wasted. I'm sorry that this list is insufficiently tolerant/intelligent/wise to value what would, in other circles, be worthwhile conversation. Regretfully, --Dane