<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Argh, again to the wrong address. I wonder if thats a bug thunderbird :/ -------- Original Message -------- <table class="moz-email-headers-table" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th> <td>Re: Fwd: Re: Eventually drop the top-panel?</td> </tr> <tr> <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th> <td>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:32:08 +0200</td> </tr> <tr> <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th> <td>Kai Mast <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kai.mast@freakybytes.org"><kai.mast@freakybytes.org></a></td> </tr> <tr> <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th> <td>Matthew Paul Thomas <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mpt@canonical.com"><mpt@canonical.com></a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> On 29.06.2011 11:37, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Kai Mast wrote on 27/06/11 22:50: </pre> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">>... > On 27.06.2011 11:39, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">>> </pre> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">>>> This would mean that we could drop all the "maximize to panel" and >>> globalmenu-patches. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">>> >> I don't know what you mean by "maximize to panel". As for the global >> menu, patches for that are heading upstream for Firefox, Thunderbird, >> and LibreOffice 3.4. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">> > I don't mean the global menu but the way the maximized window and the > top-panel get merged. Imo this is a sign that the top-panel has no use > anymore.. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">I don't understand that logic at all. </pre> </blockquote> Merging the title bar of the window and the top-panel means that the top-panel is in the way of the window, and that without the indicators you wouldn't need it at all... <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">>>> Functionality like the sound menu could also be >>> included into the jumplist of the dash... >>>... </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">>> That would mean things like the time, volume, and battery status >> would be invisible much of the time, and would take up much of the >> launcher when they were visible. It would be the worst of both >> worlds. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">> > With sound menu I meant the way you can control you music player via > indicators. It would be way more straightforward if one could control > the music player via a jumplist (=right-click-menu). </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">It would be much less straightforward, for three reasons. First, the launcher is visible much less often than the launcher is. Second, even when it is visible, launcher items are sometimes folded off the bottom of the launcher, while nothing like that ever happens to the sound menu. And third, a quicklist is accessible only if the music player is running or is one of your favorites, whereas the sound menu is accessible all the time. </pre> </blockquote> Why do you need to control the music player if it isn't running at all? It's pretty easy to show the launcher just by moving to the edge of the screen, so I don't see where the problem is here. Somebody already suggested that we could only partially hide the launcher, which I think is a great idea. The hidden launcher is also very diffcult to understand as a casual user. Just read one of the reviews of unity and it will say exactly the same... <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">> Well, you're right some indicators are still needed like the battery > or network indicator, but this doesn't justify a whole top panel in my > opinion. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">That's possibly true. Phone OSes typically use a whole top panel just for indicators, but they have much less width to work with. But it's also irrelevant, because in Ubuntu the menu bar is not used just for indicators, it is also used for window menus. That would be a good thing even if there were no indicator menus at all.</pre> </blockquote> I still think that the global menus aren't a good solution. Especially the way they're hidden right now. It's very difficult for a newbie to find out that you have to hover the top-panel to get to the window menu.. By removing the top-panel we would of course need to move the window menus back to the windows.. <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">> We could move the indicator area into the dash </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">That would be even worse than moving it into the launcher. </pre> </blockquote> Sorry I meant the launcher..always confuse those too. The indicator area could be located where the thrash icon is at the moment. Just like you have on windows 7 when the panel is on the side of the screen. Look at this screenshot for example: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bayimg.com/KAIDkaAdO">http://bayimg.com/KAIDkaAdO</a> <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">> or even better > use something like the once proposed wingpanel: > <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/sipzz.jpg">http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/sipzz.jpg</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">The wingpanel is mostly a false economy. It relies on you having something useful to do with the left ~70% -- but not the right ~30% -- of the top row of the screen, which is unlikely.</pre> </blockquote> You don't need the right part of the screen because the titlebars are layed out in a way that this area is always unused. At least in the default Ubuntu theme... <blockquote cite="mid:4E0AF24E.4050400@canonical.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;"> <pre wrap="">> My problem with the current situation is that a lot of functionality > is duplicated. Empathy for example indicates new messages on the dash > and also in the messaging-indicator... >... </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">As far as I know, Empathy does not indicate new messages anywhere in the Dash. It is true that it uses both the launcher and the messaging menu, and that this is duplication. But the messaging menu aggregates new messages from multiple applications, and it's not at all obvious how this could be done in the launcher. Either new Empathy messages would be shown only in a launcher item that *wasn't* the Empathy one, which would be bizarre; or they would be shown in both the Empathy launcher item and the aggregated launcher item, making the duplication much more jarring than it is with the messaging menu.</pre> </blockquote> Sorry, of course I meant the launcher. Why would it be more confusing if I had a message count next to the application instead of the messaging menu? </body> </html>