<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Ryan Oram <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ryanoram@trentu.ca">ryanoram@trentu.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Joao Pinto <<a href="mailto:joao.pinto@getdeb.net">joao.pinto@getdeb.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Did you read <a href="http://wiki.getdeb.net/AutomatedBuildSystem" target="_blank">http://wiki.getdeb.net/AutomatedBuildSystem</a> ?<br>
> We have experienced some hosting problems on the last couple of months which<br>
> had a major impact on our availability, we expect to recover full<br>
> operationally soon.<br>
><br>
</div><div class="im">> Our packages use sbuild (I believe the official archive also uses it), I am<br>
> not aware of safety checks applied at PPAs, can you ellaborate ?<br>
<br>
</div>Ubuntu, Debian, and all Launchpad PPAs use pbuilder to create their<br>
packages. The packages are built on a virtual server to ensure<br>
integrity and consistency. The process is essentially cellular<br>
division: a VM is created, the build dependencies are downloaded and<br>
installed, the software is built from source, the package is uploaded<br>
to your PPA, and the VM is deleted. It's really what made me fall for<br>
Ubuntu. :P<br>
<br>
debuild is not nearly as robust. pbuilder, as it builds packages in a<br>
chroot environment, forces developers to check that their build<br>
scripts are not static and forces them to verify that all the package<br>
dependencies are listed in the package. It also runs lintian, to<br>
verify that the packages follow Debian/Ubuntu policy to the "t".<br></blockquote><div> <br></div><div>The last time I have checked pbuilder used chroots just as sbuild does, where can I read about the VM technology used for the PPAs ? <br>
How does it improve package quality compared to a regular chroot based build ? <br>The dependency and scripts validation being specific to pbuilder is not correct, that depends on installing the package in a clean chroot, something that we do with sbuild.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
It is now a requirement that all official Debian packages are<br>
generated via pbuilder and I believe it has been a requirement for<br>
inclusion into the Ubuntu repositories since Ubuntu's inception.<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>I am sorry, but again that is not correct, please check "<a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing</a>", search for "Build the package with <a class="https" href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto">sbuild</a> or <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto">pbuilder</a>" .<br>
<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> You may have a documented process as we do for quite some time but I find<br>
> it very unlikely that it will ever be "Official" as that requires<br>
> Canonical/Ubuntu community approval and I really don't see your project<br>
> aligned with the current official plans/projects like the software center<br>
> opportunistic applications, daily builds etc.<br>
<br>
</div>By "official", I meant documented. I now see that your project has<br>
documentation, but I couldn't find anywhere on your website, except<br>
through your external link.<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>We avoid to provide information the main page which is useful for a few users, we do have a "Contact" link :)<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
My project will be completely integrated into Software Center as it is<br>
PPA based. It is just a layer on top of the official Ubuntu repository<br>
and updates are managed through Update Manager. There are no extra<br>
websites to visit or .debs to download. It completely integrated into<br>
apt, so all you need to do is add the PPA. ;)<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>The GetDeb repository is just as integrated as a PPA, it's a regular 3rd party repository, we don't use PPAs because:<br>1) our build system is prior to PPAs<br>
2) some of our packages are not acceptable per PPA's software licence requirements<br>3) we have more flexibility to integrate features which wouldn't have much use on the PPA scenario<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Additionally, because it is mandated that all packages be generated<br>
via the developer's PPA, the packages are, for the most part, ensured<br>
to follow Ubuntu/Debian policy.<br></blockquote><div>The PPA does not validate if a package is Ubuntu/Debian policy compliant, such is not possible in a fully automated fashion, lintian helps a lot but does not replace a human reviewer. <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> GetDeb has some objectives common to what you are proposing, it has been<br>
> successful in many aspects, failed in some others, the current team is very<br>
> small but with a long experience. I think it would be more beneficial for<br>
> the community to join instead of divide.<br>
<br>
</div>I would be more than happy to assist your project and help integrate<br>
it into the Launchpad and PPA processes. However, this would be a huge<br>
restructuring of your project, requiring many time-consuming changes.<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>Right, and would provide no benefits. <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
This is the reason why I opted to start a new project, as it would<br>
probably be less work for everyone to start from scratch. <br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
If your team is willing to make these changes, I would be happy to<br>
participate in their implementation. In the meantime, my project is up<br>
and running and I am willing to accept any assistance any member of<br>
the Ubuntu community is willing to give.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<font color="#888888">Ryan<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>Best regards,<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>João Luís Marques Pinto<br>GetDeb Team Leader<br><a href="http://www.getdeb.net">http://www.getdeb.net</a><br><a href="http://blog.getdeb.net">http://blog.getdeb.net</a><br>