<div class="gmail_quote">2008/7/7 Scott Kitterman <<a href="mailto:ubuntu@kitterman.com">ubuntu@kitterman.com</a>>: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="Ih2E3d">On Monday 07 July 2008 08:50, Cory K. wrote: > Sad fact is people don't install the alpha/betas at the same level as > final. So more actual testing/feedback was done after release. I can > tell you for sure this was the case for Ubuntu Studio. > > For me, it's all about how do we get people to use the later alphas or > betas so final is better? Age old issue it seems. > </div>Agreed.</blockquote><div> I don't agree at all. Fact is that 8.04 was released with several known bugs. (PA, kernel SCHED_GROUP, and so on). The SCHED_GROUP bug even had a fix available, but it was not packaged into the system of fear of breaking things. Thankfully, it now has found it ways in to the package. Myself, I got affected by some sound issues, Firefox 3 issues (all fixed in the 3.0 final release though), mounting of samba shares, and an X problem. There are also a lot of bugs on LP that seems to get very little attention, and has been there for a long time with seemingly no developer activity (such as <a href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/88746">https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/88746</a>). I don't accuse any of the developers of doing a bad job, but I think there is some problem with the methods used in the development of Ubuntu. I've been thinking for some time about writing a post here with the title "Why are Ubuntu releases so buggy?", but as this thread touches that issue quite closely, I'll post my thoughts here. I'm not the only thinking Ubuntu releases are buggy, you have probably all read various reviews on the net. If Ubuntu is ever to reach out to inexperienced computer users, low bug count must be a top priority. As an experienced user, I know how to work around most bugs, but newbies don't know that. Bugs are very annoying for the experienced users, and blocks the usage for newbies. When the software is released, users expect it to be stable. Buggy releases are a major obstacle for resolving bug #1. For me, it sound ridiculous to release buggy software to get more testing. So, as and end-user, I have noticed how the Ubuntu releases are often too buggy, even the LTS ones, and seeing how this prevents adoption of Ubuntu. I'm not a developer, but I have some thoughts anyway about possible remedies for this problem: 1. Spend less time developing features, and more time fixing bugs. 2. Be more conservative about including new software, especially when it comes to system components affecting many programs. Of course PA is the case where it went wrong in Hardy, but it similar things could happen in the future. 3.a) Have a release cycle with more time spent in the beta phase. or 3.b) Delay the release if needed, until it's stable. OR 3.c) Release it, but make it have a name so it is clear that it's not completely stable yet, such as 8.04 Early Adopters Release, or something similar. Probably these just concern the LTS releases. Perhaps the non-LTS releases could continue just as normal, if I would appreciate a stronger focus on bugs on those too (1). Maybe the list of feature additions for the LTS could be quite short, and it would have a very strong focus on fixing bugs. 8.04.1 seems to be quite stable now, at least for me. So good work there, thanks to the developers. IMO, the 8.04 release should have been delayed till at least now, or maybe later (as there are apparently still PA problems). Just my 2 cents. As said, I'm not a developer, and my suggestions for solutions may not be so well informed, but as an end user, I understand very well how buggy releases affects the usage of Ubuntu. It's sad to say that Windows releases are normally more stable than Linux ones (at least the Ubuntu ones). Regards Pär </div></div>