Re: Dead acute + c still produces ć instead of the more widely used ç

[Ricardo Bánffy]

Hi.

I'm a native Portuguese speaker and this bothered me a bit when I moved
over from Windows to Linux (at the start of the Gnome 2 era, IIRC, which is
the first time the ć thing appeared.

The solution I've been using since then is the right-alt key combined with
",". Still a bit confusing when using a Mac, but it works.

There are good reasons for both behaviors - dead acute is acute and when
composed with c it makes sense to result in a "ć". OTOH, an exception could
be warranted considering how many people need to write "ç" using a US
keyboard.

There may be some enlightenment in discussions from the time (early 2000's,
perhaps?) Gnome (or some other component it relies on) adopted it over the
Windows/8859-1 way (Macs adopted the Windows conventions much later).

On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 20:02 Colin Watson <cjwatson at ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 11:07:08AM +0200, Nilson Santos Figueiredo Jr.
> wrote:
> > I just got a new laptop and installed the newest LTS Ubuntu version.
> > To my surprise, Ubuntu still cannot produce ç properly out-of-the-box in
> > the regular way when using the "US international with dead keys" layout.
>
> I believe that this behaviour is defined by libx11
> (https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11) and it isn't as simple
> as saying that it always produces ć: it's supposed to depend on your
> locale.  A grep should make the intent clear:
>
>   <cjwatson at niejwein ~/src/freedesktop/libx11 (master=)>$ git grep
> '^<dead_acute> <c>' nls
>   nls/en_US.UTF-8/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                    : "ć"
>  U0107 # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE
>   nls/fi_FI.UTF-8/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                        :
> "ć"  U0107  #  LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH ACUTE
>   nls/iso8859-1/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                      :
> "\347"        ccedilla
>   nls/iso8859-13/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                     :
> "\343"        cacute
>   nls/iso8859-15/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                     :
> "\347"        ccedilla
>   nls/iso8859-2/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                      :
> "\346"        cacute
>   nls/pt_BR.UTF-8/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>                    : "ç"
> ccedilla  # LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
>   nls/pt_PT.UTF-8/Compose.pre:<dead_acute> <c>    : "ç" ccedilla # LATIN
> SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
>
> I hope this will help you narrow down where the problem is: either the
> compose definitions aren't taking effect, in which case you'd need to
> track down what's supposed to be applying them and isn't, or the compose
> definitions are wrong, in which case you would be best off taking this
> up with X11 upstream.
>
> (That said, while I don't use dead-key layouts myself, I seem to get ç
> when I type Compose ' c even though that isn't what the Compose file
> says I should get.  Not quite sure what's going on there.)
>
> > "Ć" is a character that is used in Polish (38.5 million speakers) and
> > apparently also Croatian (6 millions speakers) and some related languages
> > when using loanwords.
> > "Ç" on the other hand, is used by Portuguese (215-260 million speakers),
> > French (80 million native, 270 million total speakers), Turkish (75
> > million), Catalan (4-10million), Albanian (5 million), Azerbaijani (23
> > million), plus at least Tatar, Turkmen, Kurdish and Zazaki, Friulian,
> > Ligurian and Occitan.
>
> Given that this is (as far as I can tell) supposed to depend on the
> locale, there should be no need to play off different groups of people
> against each other like this.
>
> --
> Colin Watson                                       [cjwatson at ubuntu.com]
>
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