Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 119, Issue 30
Jesse Steele
jesse at jessesteele.com
Tue Oct 25 06:04:31 UTC 2016
Pardon the duplicates, figuring out my email. Love.
Jordan,
From what I see in the younger generation, no; if they do, then I don't
see it in action. In Windows and Word, it is not unheard of for them to
spend a few tries on similar bopomofo characters. I do see pre-tone word
prediction on cell phones.
I have seen this with a 17 year old, a 23 year old, and a 26 year old
PhD candidate, all the same: fcitx... "What, oh, well, okay...
[slow]..."; gcin "I can type yeah!... [crunchchchchc...... fast]"
...That said, as a Westerner, I prefer fctix because I can use it slowly
and I understand it. They ONLY use gcin for speed combinations and don't
even look at it because the workflow is intuitive from their other tools.
I'm not selling gcin, but I am selling its workflow to make Taiwanese
accept Ubuntu. That workflow is a deal-maker.
Jordan wrote: Do users of bopomofo in word processors have the opportunity to select a
range of characters iff bopomofo is ambiguous? Since txts are often
abbreviated, ambiguities can be shrugged off if the context is clear
enough. Academic writing is another league completely. Having to
create a word data input system that covers casual to academic writing
seems complex indeed.
Gunnar,
I think you misread. I select Taiwan Chinese on install, but it does NOT
automatically install those extra packages. I agree it should. But, it
doesn't until I go to Language settings. Done that since 13.10 when I
started.
gcin bug report, I'll look at that. This is what it would be: gcin
worked in 15.10 Unity but hid under the app search fuzz, broke as of
16.04 Unity, still broke; worked in 16.04 GNOME, but GNOME's Chinese
packages completely broke around October and have to install that long
list manually. Haven't tested X and K.
I'm wearing the "reporter" hat, just passing on what the Taiwanese tell
me. Not my opinion. I would vote for fcitx; they don't. It's all about
the speedy, no-looking workflow. gcin, hands-down, 30's and younger.
Taiwanese in their 40's often can't type at all and ask their kids to do
it for them.
Really love you guys. Taiwan is SO ripe for Ubuntu!
Gunar wrote: Hi Jesse!
On 2016-10-22 02:15, Jesse Steele wrote:
> 1. gcin ONLY: Taiwanese's speed-typing habits in Chinese only fits with
> the gcin order of character appearance in the input menus.
> - gcin doesn't install well, depending on the distro. 16.10 broke it,
> hence this email.
> - the app search fuzzy overlay in Unity hides the gcin menu selector
> - fix: have fcitx adopt a native option that clones gcin's speed-typing
> order (exactly) for Taiwan, or make gcin native with fcitx as an
> installed second option.
There are currently two IM frameworks which are integrated with the
Ubuntu desktop: IBus and Fcitx. The latter is the default framework for
CJKV languages in 16.04+.
It should be possible to use other IM frameworks, including gcin. If
gcin is broken, can you please elaborate (preferably in a bug report) on
what the problem is.
I leave it to people who speak Chinese to comment on the claimed
preferences of Taiwanese users. (I thought that Fcitx was a decent
option also for Taiwan Chinese.)
> 2. Taiwan Chinese language packs don't install until visiting the
> Language settings, after install.
> These are the packages:
>
> fcitx fcitx-ui-qimpanel libreoffice-l10n-en-za fcitx-table-cangjie
> language-pack-zh-hant fonts-arphic-uming libreoffice-help-zh-tw
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw thunderbird-locale-en-gb fcitx-chewing
> fcitx-pinyin mythes-en-au fonts-arphic-ukai thunderbird-locale-zh-hant
> libreoffice-help-en-gb thunderbird-locale-zh-tw libreoffice-l10n-en-gb
> language-pack-gnome-zh-hant firefox-locale-zh-hant hunspell-en-ca
>
> ...Sure would be nice if choosing Taiwan's Chinese would include these
> on install.
The Taiwan Chinese language support is included on an Ubuntu install if
you in the installer select Traditional Chinese as the language. If you
don't, yes, you need to install them via Language Support. Isn't that a
reasonable way to handle it?
On 10/24/2016 08:00 PM, ubuntu-devel-discuss-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan (Jesse Steele)
> 2. Re: Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan (JMZ)
> 3. Should Broadcom wifi drivers be unloaded before suspend to
> avoid connetivity issues? And the appopriate importance of that
> problem? (bug #1439771) (Iiro Laiho)
> 4. Re: Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan (Gunnar Hjalmarsson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 08:15:44 +0800
> From: Jesse Steele <jesse at jessesteele.com>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan
> Message-ID: <83cbcb77-e856-4bf6-2e6d-fd34a3653e8d at jessesteele.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I am an American living in Taiwan. Chinese input is a problem that
> prevents Taiwanese from using Ubuntu.
>
> Two problems:
>
> 1. gcin ONLY: Taiwanese's speed-typing habits in Chinese only fits with
> the gcin order of character appearance in the input menus.
> - gcin doesn't install well, depending on the distro. 16.10 broke it,
> hence this email.
> - the app search fuzzy overlay in Unity hides the gcin menu selector
> - fix: have fcitx adopt a native option that clones gcin's
> speed-typing order (exactly) for Taiwan, or make gcin native with fcitx
> as an installed second option.
>
> 2. Taiwan Chinese language packs don't install until visiting the
> Language settings, after install.
> These are the packages:
>
> fcitx fcitx-ui-qimpanel libreoffice-l10n-en-za fcitx-table-cangjie
> language-pack-zh-hant fonts-arphic-uming libreoffice-help-zh-tw
> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw thunderbird-locale-en-gb fcitx-chewing
> fcitx-pinyin mythes-en-au fonts-arphic-ukai thunderbird-locale-zh-hant
> libreoffice-help-en-gb thunderbird-locale-zh-tw libreoffice-l10n-en-gb
> language-pack-gnome-zh-hant firefox-locale-zh-hant hunspell-en-ca
>
> ...Sure would be nice if choosing Taiwan's Chinese would include these
> on install.
>
>
> That's it.
>
> Here is more info:
> Kylin is for Mainlanders, Taiwanese wouldn't touch it. Taiwan uses a
> special kind of Chinese input (chewing/zhuoyin/bopomofo, many names for
> the same thing). They don't use Roman characters like the mainland or
> Hong Kong and others. Everyone about 30 and younger types with this
> uber-fast pattern used identically on Mac and Windows and their fast
> typing expects the characters and options to come up in the order gcin
> has, no other.
>
> Taiwan is ready for Ubuntu. This is the only thing stopping them.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 04:43:53 -0400
> From: JMZ <florentior at gmail.com>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan
> Message-ID: <c5f7bcea-6683-ebcc-83ea-cfedb96a9ae0 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Jesse, OT question:
>
> Do users of bopomofo in word processors have the opportunity to select a
> range of characters iff bopomofo is ambiguous? Since txts are often
> abbreviated, ambiguities can be shrugged off if the context is clear
> enough. Academic writing is another league completely. Having to
> create a word data input system that covers casual to academic writing
> seems complex indeed.
>
> Jordan
>
>
> On 10/21/2016 08:15 PM, Jesse Steele wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Here is more info:
>> Kylin is for Mainlanders, Taiwanese wouldn't touch it. Taiwan uses a
>> special kind of Chinese input (chewing/zhuoyin/bopomofo, many names
>> for the same thing). They don't use Roman characters like the mainland
>> or Hong Kong and others. Everyone about 30 and younger types with this
>> uber-fast pattern used identically on Mac and Windows and their fast
>> typing expects the characters and options to come up in the order gcin
>> has, no other.
>>
>> Taiwan is ready for Ubuntu. This is the only thing stopping them.
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 10:35:21 +0000
> From: "Iiro Laiho" <iiro at iirolaiho.net>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Should Broadcom wifi drivers be unloaded before suspend to
> avoid connetivity issues? And the appopriate importance of that
> problem? (bug #1439771)
> Message-ID: <e5c02f66281ba9a231b09edccf1ab3a9 at al.emailarray.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I am asking if it would be a good idea for Ubuntu to have Broadcom WLAN drivers to unload before going to sleep as a default configuration? Not doing that seems to cause networks to disappear on many systems. Or would my workaround cause some other serious issues?
>
> There is a bug report on this topic on Launchpad, #1439771. It is currently marked as "Medium" importance. Any bug triagers here? Would "High" be more appopriate as Broadcom chips are quite common?
> ? Iiro Laiho
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 13:21:02 +0200
> From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <gunnarhj at ubuntu.com>
> To: Jesse Steele <jesse at jessesteele.com>,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu in Chinese for Taiwan
> Message-ID: <e0b1d851-3116-b926-c48d-f7fdae7287c6 at ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hi Jesse!
>
> On 2016-10-22 02:15, Jesse Steele wrote:
>> 1. gcin ONLY: Taiwanese's speed-typing habits in Chinese only fits with
>> the gcin order of character appearance in the input menus.
>> - gcin doesn't install well, depending on the distro. 16.10 broke it,
>> hence this email.
>> - the app search fuzzy overlay in Unity hides the gcin menu selector
>> - fix: have fcitx adopt a native option that clones gcin's speed-typing
>> order (exactly) for Taiwan, or make gcin native with fcitx as an
>> installed second option.
> There are currently two IM frameworks which are integrated with the
> Ubuntu desktop: IBus and Fcitx. The latter is the default framework for
> CJKV languages in 16.04+.
>
> It should be possible to use other IM frameworks, including gcin. If
> gcin is broken, can you please elaborate (preferably in a bug report) on
> what the problem is.
>
> I leave it to people who speak Chinese to comment on the claimed
> preferences of Taiwanese users. (I thought that Fcitx was a decent
> option also for Taiwan Chinese.)
>
>> 2. Taiwan Chinese language packs don't install until visiting the
>> Language settings, after install.
>> These are the packages:
>>
>> fcitx fcitx-ui-qimpanel libreoffice-l10n-en-za fcitx-table-cangjie
>> language-pack-zh-hant fonts-arphic-uming libreoffice-help-zh-tw
>> libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw thunderbird-locale-en-gb fcitx-chewing
>> fcitx-pinyin mythes-en-au fonts-arphic-ukai thunderbird-locale-zh-hant
>> libreoffice-help-en-gb thunderbird-locale-zh-tw libreoffice-l10n-en-gb
>> language-pack-gnome-zh-hant firefox-locale-zh-hant hunspell-en-ca
>>
>> ...Sure would be nice if choosing Taiwan's Chinese would include these
>> on install.
> The Taiwan Chinese language support is included on an Ubuntu install if
> you in the installer select Traditional Chinese as the language. If you
> don't, yes, you need to install them via Language Support. Isn't that a
> reasonable way to handle it?
>
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