Can we include HWE in the release version?

[Bryan Quigley]

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:52 PM, John Johansen
<john.johansen at canonical.com> wrote:
> On 04/06/2016 02:32 PM, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote:
>> On 6 April 2016 at 22:25, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:
>>> Bryan Quigley schreef op 06-04-16 22:35:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The naming scheme of just  "Ubuntu 14.04.4 LTS" is no longer
>>>> meaningful when it comes to determining what kernel/mesa/xorg you are
>>>> on.   It's also confusing to many users what 14.04.4 actually means
>>>> and it makes determining if you are supported more difficult [1].
>>>>
>>>> I propose for 16.04 we change it so that the HWE# is included in the
>>>> version, so it's trivial to determine the support level.
>>>>
>>>> So for example, if we had done this for 14.04 we would have releases like:
>>>> Ubuntu 14.04.4 LTS - Everyone up-to-date with stock kernel
>>>> Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS HWE15.04 - Out of date with vivid kernel
>>>> Ubuntu 14.04.4 LTS HWE15.04 - Up-to-date with vivid kernel
>>>
>>> Personally I feel that naming scheme is hideous and will confuse even
>>> more people.
>>>
>>> What does HWE even mean? I can look it up, but it is not like it is some
>>> kind of well known acronym or abbreviation.
>>>
>>> (The way I understood it these point releases indeed brought new kernels
>>> in addition to something else. The confusion that I experienced was more
>>> the weird focus on end-of-support dates that was different for every
>>> point release, creating tiers of support that utterly confused me,
>>> particularly because the context with other (newer) versions of the
>>> distribution was not clear. The idea of point releases bringing new
>>> kernels and that "HWE" is not confusing at all. However, if this
>>> dramatically is going to change "end of support" dates, then suddenly it
>>> is not comprehensible anymore --- did it mean that a getting point
>>> release meant less support?
>>>
>>> What I remember is that the point releases had less support, which is
>>> not understandable because they are newer systems.
>>>
>>> Also if a point release actually means newer versions of all software
>>> this is confusing by itself. Creating the ability for new hardware is
>>> easy to understand. But if repos for .3 and .4 are going to be entirely
>>> different, and now you are going to create 2 dimensions: currency of
>>> software, and currency of kernel/HWE and you can mix them at will: that
>>> is not helpful.
>>>
>>> So I would suggest the confusion did not come from the naming scheme.
>>> The confusion came from the fact that these varying levels of support
>>> were incomprehensible. If anything upgrading to a newer kernel should be
>>> recommended and encouraged for the largest part and if anything that
>>> should give the benefit of longer support -- since you are up to date
>>> now, right?
>>>
>>> The fact that 14.04.1 is listed at end of life april 2019 and 14.04.2 is
>>> listed at august 2016 is just utterly confusing. Changing the naming is
>>> not going to help that.
>>>
>>> If these two components have different EOL you can just say so, I'm not
>>> sure if that is the case.
>>>
>>> So if you wanted some thoughts, my thought is that your proposal here
>>> would increase the confusion while not tackling the real issue.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>
>> LTS has 5 years of support.
>>
>> There are multiple kernels available with full 5 year support:
>> - original (from .0 original release & .1 release)
>> - next-lts (from a .5 point release)
>>
>> Intermediate releases backports:
>> - Available in .2; .3; .4
>> - Supported until .5 release which comes with next-LTS kernel
>> - Upgrade path is to the next LTS release, or to the .5 HWE stack
>>
>> We do send EOL announcements for the HWE kernels. I do not believe we
>> automatically upgrade people from them to the .5 / next-LTS kernel,
>> maybe we should. (or i am wrong, and we totally do it).
>> However in practice, people who use/care about HWE kernels upgrade to
>> the next HWE stack and/or next LTS release quite rapidly.
>>
>
> For those who opt-in sure, but there are people who buy machines with
> a point release installed. I don't think we can make that assumption
> for them.

My understanding is that in that specific case the cert team has some
sort of flag that enables them to proceed to the next-lts kernel when
the new certification completes.   But it's still a general issue.

Kind regards,
Bryan