If Luicd ia a LTS......

schoappied schoappied at gmail.com
Tue Mar 23 16:48:51 UTC 2010

Daniel Chen wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:07 PM, schoappied <schoappied at gmail.com> wrote:
>> We all remembered the failure of Hardy as LTS.
> Firstly, I am going to warn you up front that this response will seem
> largely defensive, because I have not seen any contributions from you
> in Lucid's sound stack integration. I am happy to stand corrected,
> however. That said --
Point taken ;)
> Seriously? "Failure"? Granted, there are integration problems (still,
> thanks to derivatives choosing not to ship PulseAudio by default) in
> 8.04.y and 10.04, but to call the former a failure based on foolhardy
> perception is rather...foolhardy. Yes, some (non-trivial number) have
> issues with their sound drivers. However, plenty of people are using
> Hardy on their desktops with nary a concern. And let's not count the
> server users, though I don't think you were precisely arguing that
> point. (At least I hope you weren't.)
Pulseaudio was a problem to me until 9.10. And I believe Hardy is 
working better now. But I'm talking about the first moment after it's 
release till 6 months later. It should work smoothly on release date.
This with the Firefox problems should be enough for devs to say "ok, we 
made an mistake there". If that isn't the case there is not much hope I 
>> Bleeding edge sound server Pulseaudio as default (sound horror). Stupid
>> decision imo to implement such a thing in a LTS release. Beta version of
>> Firefox installed (browsing horror). Stupid decision imo to release a
>> LTS with a beta browser.
> Those decisions were not made lightly. Given the scope of upstream
> support for those programs, they were the right way forward.

Not for an LTS. You could have implement it at 8.04.1, as an stable 
version, or suspend the release date.

>> At that time the public opinion about Windows Vista was very negative,
>> but Ubuntu missed the chance there and released a LTS version which was
>> not ready for the Desktop. The pulseaudio problems are not even really
>> solved atm (many maudio cards didn't work with pulseaudio on Ubuntu
>> 9.10). Let's pray they have fixed it when Lucid comes out and that they
>> never ever will such Hardy mistakes again!
> It's highly probable that your poster child, M-Audio cards, will
> require manual configuration in 10.04 as well. It's well-documented on
> the Ubuntu wiki under the KarmicCaveats page linked from
> DebuggingSoundProblems. The point is that neither upstream [ALSA,
> PulseAudio] has agreed on a fix. All we have are workarounds that make
> [both] upstream[s] unhappy. You might argue that it's better to ship a
> better user experience out of the box -- and I won't precisely
> disagree -- but volunteer distributors and maintainers have to balance
> support lifetimes and correctness with evolving codebases. I hope you
> understand that shoehorning a workaround is not the right approach,
> particularly not for an LTS.
>> There are signs that they learned a bit. Lucid seems to be based on
>> Debian testing and JACK seems to be in main now, which makes it more
>> easy to use Jack with pulseaudio for instance...
> Yes, yes, let's blast people for being slow to learn. You are
> forgetting that the difficult work of integrating these bits was done
> largely by community members who grew tired of people such as yourself
> just whinging. Please, if you want something to work, pitch in and
> help fix it.
I'm not just whining, I'm telling what many people think about Hardy's 
state at release date!
And yes, I understand it's easy to talk from the side line in this case...

But I'm glad I could speak out. Point is made. I have no more need to 
further discussion. All the best.

~ D

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