Apache Maven to be removed from Karmic?

Alvin Thompson alvin at thompsonlogic.com
Thu Oct 15 18:39:05 BST 2009

You're *seriously* trying to make the argument that a build 
tool--especially the one that is due to replace Ant--isn't essential to 
Java developers? [Alvin files John Moser's name in the list of people 
NEVER to hire as a developer...]

On 10/15/2009 01:29 PM, John Moser wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Dustin Kirkland<kirkland at ubuntu.com>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Alvin Thompson
>>> <alvin at thompsonlogic.com>  wrote:
>>>> First, as a Java developer I hope this doesn't happen as Maven is pretty
>>>> much required for Java development (at least in the U.S.).
>>> I laughed.
>>> Your pet project is NOT "pretty much required for X" in any global
>>> scope.  I've hardly seen any Java shops, and the ones I did... well
>>> I've never seen Maven.  Most of the bigger shops are moving to the
>>> next buzzword anyway:  .NET (why the hell do people do this?)
>> Hi John-
>> I'm not a Java developer, but I certainly know of Maven.  It is as
>> essential to Java programmers as Make is to C programmers.
> I think he's overstating the popularity and necessity of a particular
> package, to a large degree.  There are plenty of Java programs in
> Ubuntu; with Maven being dropped, they should all cease to build, and
> also be dropped (imagine dropping gmake).  Unless, of course, Maven
> isn't really essential to anything.
> I could state that a LiveCD build of Nexuiz is essential to a
> successful Linux build, because everyone wants to play FPS games and
> we can't have a real operating system if you can't just reboot your
> computer onto a cleanroom disc with Nexuiz in it.  While Nexuiz does
> exist, and is fun, it's hardly essential for anything (even flexing
> Ubuntu as a gaming platform), and a LiveCD boot to run a single
> application is obviously just a pet project of mine.
> I will continue to laugh at people who present anything with *a* user
> base as something *essential* to an *entire* class of users, unless it
> obviously is and thus dropping it would horribly break Ubuntu's
> functionality or drastically alter the user experience for the entire
> install base (i.e. libc-dev for C programmers, OpenOffice.org-Writer
> or Firefox getting dropped, etc).  Something only used by a subset of
> a subset of the userbase isn't "required" for that whole subset to
> function, just the further subset thereof.
> Again, case in point, if Ubuntu drops Maven and suddenly every Java
> application fails to build on the BS, then Maven is "required" for
> Java programming.
>> I can't weigh in on the discussion about removing Maven, but I don't
>> think it's appropriate to attack Alvin for stating his support of
>> Maven in Ubuntu.
>> :-Dustin

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