Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea? - no.

[Mike Jones]

Hi Thomas,

    I'm one of those users who would prefer that the C-A-B command be left
as it is, or be modified to allow the ability through some other interface:
such as twice successive.

    I have filed several bug reports about issues related to problems with
X, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/289898 for example.

    And have several waiting to be filed upon me figuring out which out of
the 30 programs i normally have running cause the issue.

    It isn't always that C-A-B lets me get back to work without needing to
do a complete restart, but unfortunately I won't ever believe someone who
tells me that Ubuntu has a completely fool-proof stable graphical
environment. Unless I'm doing something drastically wrong, I feel
encountering SOME problem once a day is no big deal. But thats okay, as
Ubuntu is still loads better than anything else I've used.

    But Thomas, my main issue with with your standpoint is basically this

<snip>    No.  What surprises me is when people are fine with those bugs as
long
as there is a quick way to kill the X server that is enabled by default.
</snip>

     People do file bugs. Perhaps not everyone, and perhaps not every time.
But the problem is still going to be there for that person from when they
originally filed the bug until the problem has been tracked down, until a
fix has been written, until its been tested to not break anything, until its
been patched to the package, until the package as been released, and finally
the package has been downloaded (and in the case of things like the kernal,
and graphics support) until the computer (or X) has been restarted.

    What do you suggest I do between when I report the problem until a fix
exists on my machine? Assume that I have no desire to modify configuration
files (Honestly I hate messing with config files. I personally think Ubuntu
does a very poor job of presenting them in a user friendly way. But that is
only my persona opinion), and have no ability to fix the problem myself. (I
do have a programing background, but this is for the sake of arguemnet).

     Every time a problem comes up that makes my normal workflow completely
impossible (Which happens nightly for me, to be honest. But I haven't
reported this bug because I'm still trying to figure out if its my own fault
of not), about 90% of the time, C-A-B brings me back to doing what I was
doing within 60 seconds. Not haveing C-A-B normally would make it impossible
for me to log out, reboot, or switch to C-A-Fsomething, for some reason
C-A-B works, but these methods don't, as far as I've been able to try them,
and trust me I have.

    Once I submit a bug report about this issue, Can you give me a guarentee
that I will have an update sitting on my system within an amount of time
that make it reasonable to not have C-A-B immediately available to me?

    Idealistically, C-A-B is not needed, because Ideally there are no
problems.

    Realistically, C-A-B is useful to the points that I personally feel it
to be necessary to my computing on a day to day basis.

MIchael Jones
Junior Software Engineering and Computer Science major
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:08:39 -0500
From: Thomas Jaeger <thjaeger at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good
       idea?
To: John Moser <john.r.moser at gmail.com>
Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com, Dylan McCall
       <dylanmccall at gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4993CAF7.5060404 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

John Moser wrote:
>> This is not how grabs work.  If a client that has grabbed the
>> Keyboard/Pointer/Server is killed all grabs are automatically released.
>>
>
> Try this when qemu freezes.  I've frequently had to C-A-F1, kill qemu,
> then alt-F7 back and ... wow, nothing works.  C-A-F1, DISPLAY=0:0 qemu,
> go back, hit a button, hit C-A to release grab, and close qemu.
> Repeatably.

I don't know what qemu is nor what it does when it claims do a "grab".
But regular X grabs behave the way I described above.  If they aren't
released when the connection closes chances are something else is going
on.  I know this is getting old, but you don't happen to have a link to
a bug report where this is discussed?

>> Bug report?
>>
>>> Computers will always do very strange thnigs, most of which don't make
>>> sense and shouldn't happen.
>> Those things can be fixed though.
>>
>
> Yes, exactly.  Just don't be surprised if someone says something happens
> that shouldn't.

No.  What surprises me is when people are fine with those bugs as long
as there is a quick way to kill the X server that is enabled by default.
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