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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello Hannie and Svetlana,<br>
      <br>
      it is essential that this particular meeting gathers all
      contributors from all three teams together. The intention is to
      about to talk about the future of the whole documentation team,
      for example improvements to the governance that are essential to
      make the team able to work - and ultimately grow - again.<br>
      <br>
      Doodle should try to auto-adjust the time for your timezone (it
      should even mention that), but if it doesn't, it's likely UTC.
      FWIW, the times are (in 24-hour format UTC):<br>
      - Friday, March 18, 15:30 UTC (that's tomorrow)<br>
      - Tuesday, March 22, 18:00 UTC<br>
      - Thursday, March 24, 14:30 UTC<br>
      <br>
      Cheers,<br>
      Pasi<br>
      <br>
      On 2016-03-17 19:49, Svetlana Belkin wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:1458236944.3440206.552232778.4AA0784E@webmail.messagingengine.com"
      type="cite">
      <title></title>
      <div> </div>
      <div><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255,
          255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(31, 31, 31)"><span
              class="font" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', arial,
              sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:16.002px">That
                might not work so well but that's maybe because i had
                hard time running meetings in the past in the doc team.</span></span></span></span><br>
      </div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>On Thu, Mar 17, 2016, at 01:34 PM, Hannie Dumoleyn wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <div>May I suggest to divide the meeting with the docs team in
            3 parts: 1. desktop documentation, 2. server guide, 3.
            community help wiki (30 minutes each). By doing so,
            attendants can decide whether to follow each part or not.<br>
          </div>
          <div> Btw, I suppose the time in Doodle is UTC?<br>
          </div>
          <div> Hannie<br>
          </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div> Op 16-03-16 om 19:30 schreef David Planella:<br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKnT5bOe+5fksPuupgfT9zGrC4Rv4VcitjfSeNLb3VhA5=QBWw@mail.gmail.com">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>Hi all,<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>Apologies for the delay, which was on my end. We've
                  been discussing the topic on our team call and we'd
                  like to propose a meeting with the docs team. While
                  the original e-mail covers the issue in great detail,
                  and we've got some ideas, we'd like to get the doc's
                  team views and come up together with a plan moving
                  forward.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>I'd like to propose some dates for a meeting, to be
                  reviewed around the end of the week to pick a date. If
                  you are a member of the docs team or if you are
                  interested to help, please choose the date(s) that
                  work for you. If you are willing to attend and the
                  timezones are an issue, please let me know as well,
                  and I can add an extra choice:<br>
                </div>
                <div> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://doodle.com/poll/dqsryhnkfwgantb2">http://doodle.com/poll/dqsryhnkfwgantb2</a><br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> And an initial agenda (feel free to edit):<br>
                </div>
                <div> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team">http://pad.ubuntu.com/doc-team</a><br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div> </div>
              <div>Cheers,<br>
              </div>
              <div> </div>
            </div>
            <div>David.<br>
            </div>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div> </div>
            <div>
              <div>On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elizabeth K. Joseph
                <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:lyz@ubuntu.com">lyz@ubuntu.com</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <div> </div>
              <blockquote
                style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,
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                <div>Hello community team,<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We are approaching you on behalf of the Ubuntu
                  Documentation team to<br>
                </div>
                <div> ask for assistance with the issues the team is
                  undergoing.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> The Ubuntu Documentation team maintains the
                  following documentation:<br>
                </div>
                <div> – The desktop documentation at <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://help.ubuntu.com/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://help.ubuntu.com/">https://help.ubuntu.com/</a></a><br>
                </div>
                <div> – The serverguide at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://help.ubuntu.com/">https://help.ubuntu.com/</a><br>
                </div>
                <div> – The community help wiki at <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://help.ubuntu.com/community/">https://help.ubuntu.com/community/</a></a><br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We maintain documentation for how this
                  documentation is maintained at<br>
                </div>
                <div> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam</a><br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> The team is loosely organized in three subteams,
                  each team taking care<br>
                </div>
                <div> of one of the components mentioned above. In each
                  team we have only a<br>
                </div>
                <div> few people that can be considered active; some of
                  those only barely.<br>
                </div>
                <div> The state of all of the components can be
                  described to be more or less<br>
                </div>
                <div> stalled and in desperate the need of more
                  contributors. With the<br>
                </div>
                <div> string freeze for Documentation just a couple
                  weeks away (March 17),<br>
                </div>
                <div> at this point we risk not having updated
                  documentation for 16.04,<br>
                </div>
                <div> particularly for the Desktop.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> In the case of the community help wiki, the
                  situation is even worse;<br>
                </div>
                <div> not only has it encountered spam attacks lately
                  (which only mean more<br>
                </div>
                <div> work for the admins, who have been manually
                  applying documentation<br>
                </div>
                <div> "patches" that contributors send to the ubuntu-doc
                  mailing list), it<br>
                </div>
                <div> also has a lot of content that is completely
                  outdated, useless and<br>
                </div>
                <div> unstructured. Due to the spam attacks, most
                  community members can't<br>
                </div>
                <div> currently take any action to improve the
                  situation.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> Following a meeting with the Community Council[0],
                  we have begun to<br>
                </div>
                <div> identify what we feel the team needs, both in the
                  short and long term.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We believe one of the major underlying issues to
                  this situation is the<br>
                </div>
                <div> teams inability to make decisions. The active and
                  not so active team<br>
                </div>
                <div> members all have their own opinion on which tasks
                  are sensible to take<br>
                </div>
                <div> on a certain component. This is especially
                  problematic as sometimes we<br>
                </div>
                <div> have had volunteers signed up to do the work, but
                  the team has wanted<br>
                </div>
                <div> to consider the issue further, ultimately stalling
                  the process. When<br>
                </div>
                <div> most efforts to improve the situation seem to be
                  in vain, it is no<br>
                </div>
                <div> wonder the team is not attracting new contributors
                  either.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> As the Documentation team does not have a leader
                  to steer the overall<br>
                </div>
                <div> direction, there is no way to easily resolve the
                  problem.<br>
                </div>
                <div> Additionally, for various reasons, nobody from the
                  current<br>
                </div>
                <div> contributors is willing to step up and take the
                  leadership position.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> Our request and recommendation for the community
                  team at Canonical is<br>
                </div>
                <div> to bring some leadership to the team from outside
                  of the team.<br>
                </div>
                <div> Ideally, the person would be a Canonical employee
                  who would have part<br>
                </div>
                <div> of their paid work assigned to working with the
                  Documentation team. We<br>
                </div>
                <div> think the request is fair considering the
                  documentation is important<br>
                </div>
                <div> and useful to many Ubuntu users and thus valuable
                  to Canonical.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We believe that a stable, fresh and adequately
                  objective leadership<br>
                </div>
                <div> could help the team resolve the underlying issues
                  and ultimately,<br>
                </div>
                <div> start growing the contributor base again. As part
                  of and in addition<br>
                </div>
                <div> to leading and guiding the team, the leader could
                  take on the<br>
                </div>
                <div> following tasks:<br>
                </div>
                <div> – Work as a mediator with the members to resolve
                  disagreements, be<br>
                </div>
                <div> able to reach a consensus and get along with the
                  work<br>
                </div>
                <div> – Work with other Canonical employees, encouraging
                  them to take part<br>
                </div>
                <div> more in writing documentation, especially with the
                  components they are<br>
                </div>
                <div> working with themself<br>
                </div>
                <div> – Work with the Canonical IS team to resolve
                  technical difficulties<br>
                </div>
                <div> the community help wiki is experiencing<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We feel their role as a leader on this team would
                  not be because they<br>
                </div>
                <div> work for Canonical, but because they are able to
                  do the organizational<br>
                </div>
                <div> work that is needed. Anyone able and willing to do
                  this would be<br>
                </div>
                <div> welcomed by us and the rest of the Documentation
                  team. It's simply<br>
                </div>
                <div> come to a point on the team today where we are not
                  able to fill this<br>
                </div>
                <div> role with a volunteer contributor.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> We do not think that the recommended arrangement
                  has to be permanent<br>
                </div>
                <div> unconditionally. Building up a team and getting it
                  working by itself<br>
                </div>
                <div> sometimes takes only time. We hope that with the
                  leadership, the team<br>
                </div>
                <div> can build up the contributor base and ultimately,
                  find a new leader<br>
                </div>
                <div> from within. If a leader is nominated, we will
                  happily schedule a<br>
                </div>
                <div> checkup meeting to see how things are going, if
                  there are other<br>
                </div>
                <div> actions that should be taken to grow and build up
                  the team and if the<br>
                </div>
                <div> outside leadership is required any more.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> Finally, we'd be happy to chat with anyone wishing
                  to take on this<br>
                </div>
                <div> role about the history of the team to give them
                  some context for how<br>
                </div>
                <div> we got to where we are. The Documentation team has
                  always been quite<br>
                </div>
                <div> small and has struggled to get contributors, but
                  it was with this LTS<br>
                </div>
                <div> release that we have finally hit a breaking point.<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> Sincerely,<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> Elizabeth K. Joseph (pleia2) and Pasi Lallinaho
                  (knome)<br>
                </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> [0] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/03/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t17:00">http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/03/03/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t17:00</a><br>
                </div>
                <div> <span><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(136,
                      136, 136)"><br>
                      --<br>
                      Ubuntu-community-team mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:Ubuntu-community-team@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-community-team@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
                      Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-community-team"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-community-team">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-community-team</a></a></span></span></div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
          <div> </div>
          <div> </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div> </div>
        <div>-- <br>
        </div>
        <div>ubuntu-doc mailing list<br>
        </div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
        </div>
        <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc</a><br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <div> </div>
      <div id="sig22528269">
        <div class="signature">Svetlana Belkin<br>
        </div>
        <div class="signature">A.K.A: belkinsa<br>
        </div>
        <div class="signature">User Wiki page:
          <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa</a><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div> </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Pasi Lallinaho (knome)                » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://open.knome.fi/">http://open.knome.fi/</a>
Leader of Shimmer Project             » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://shimmerproject.org/">http://shimmerproject.org/</a>
Ubuntu member, Xubuntu Website Lead   » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://xubuntu.org/">http://xubuntu.org/</a></pre>
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