From es20490446e at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 17:36:06 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 18:36:06 +0100 Subject: System Settings for mobile are shown on PC too Message-ID: <54B40606.7020002@gmail.com> I know that can be solved by removing certain package, but I don't remember which it was. Do you know? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 00:22:02 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 01:22:02 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working Message-ID: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> Please, could you confirm the following bug?: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:11:01 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:11:01 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54C93445.50809@gmail.com> Damir B: > Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (x64) > Latest Firefox (35) > Latest Adobe Flash (.440) Ubuntu 14.10 x64 Firefox 35.0.1+built1-0ubuntu0.14.10.1 Adobe Flash 11.2.202.440ubuntu0.14.10.1 Damir B: > I don't know if that bug report is being reported on the Adobe forums > by a Ubuntu user or by a Windows or Mac OS X user but if you visit > the below link in Firefox, it will bring you to your Online Settings > Manager; > > https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 That link doesn't work for me: it says I have to install flash, even when it's working in other web-pages. Damir B: > The Adobe Settings Manager can also be accessed locally using the > following command in a terminal; > > flash-player-properties The Terminal says "command not found". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:31:56 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:31:56 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> <54C93445.50809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54C9392C.2090800@gmail.com> Colin Law: > Same for me on both points (14.10) Adobe said they won't fix it, and recommended Firefox to use Pepperflash. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:38:29 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:38:29 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, Message-ID: <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> Damir B: > Do your guys' Adobe Flash installations work otherwise under Firefox? > I.e, you are able to play flash videos just fine (and not Youtube HTML5 > for example) but just can't access the settings panel? Yes, it works everywhere else. Damir B: > Have you tried doing; *sudo apt-get install flash-player-properties* ? The Terminal says "unable to locate package flash-player-properties". Damir B: > Because we have the same version of flash and everything works fine > for me and presumably other 12.04 users, I would say this "bug" would > be better suited to be reported against Ubuntu 14.10 on Launchpad, > and not on the Adobe forums. Because this bug only affects that particular web-page, probably the bug is only fixable in the server side. Shall I report nowadays? Regards. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 20:29:16 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 21:29:16 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com>, , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, , , , <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54C9469C.3030000@gmail.com> Damir B: > I'd still report just this aspect on Launchpad Done at . If this bug affects you, please confirm at . Damir B: > If you guys weren't following the latest development of Firefox, they > actually released a new "Insecure Content" feature that is enabled by > default (shipped with version 35). Basically, if I access the Adobe > Flash online settings page with it enabled, I just get a white page > with a bunch of text. If I disable it, the page then works perfectly > as it has before, so there is now an additional step required to get > the page working and I am now wondering if that is where you guys are > fumbling.... You can omit this step just by going to . Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From d4m1r_b at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 18:50:35 2015 From: d4m1r_b at hotmail.com (Damir B) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:50:35 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alberto, for me it is working fine as it always has using; Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (x64) Latest Firefox (35) Latest Adobe Flash (.440) I don't know if that bug report is being reported on the Adobe forums by a Ubuntu user or by a Windows or Mac OS X user but if you visit the below link in Firefox, it will bring you to your Online Settings Manager; https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 Not only that, but the Adobe Settings Manager can also be accessed locally (at least under Ubuntu) using the following command in a terminal; flash-player-properties Hope that helps, Damir Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 01:22:02 +0100 From: es20490446e at gmail.com To: ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com; ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working Please, could you confirm the following bug?: -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d4m1r_b at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:30:55 2015 From: d4m1r_b at hotmail.com (Damir B) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:30:55 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, Message-ID: We are all running the same version of Adobe Flash and the same version of Firefox, only difference is I am still on 12.04 and you guys are on 14.10. So it must be a problem related to that version of Ubuntu. Do your guys' Adobe Flash installations work otherwise under Firefox? I.e, you are able to play flash videos just fine (and not Youtube HTML5 for example) but just can't access the settings panel? Have you tried doing; sudo apt-get install flash-player-properties ? Because we have the same version of flash and everything works fine for me and presumably other 12.04 users, I would say this "bug" would be better suited to be reported against Ubuntu 14.10 on Launchpad, and not on the Adobe forums. Just my 2 cents.... Damir > From: clanlaw at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:15:10 +0000 > Subject: Re: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working > To: es20490446e at gmail.com > CC: d4m1r_b at hotmail.com; ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com; ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com > > On 28 January 2015 at 19:11, Alberto Salvia Novella > wrote: > > Damir B: > >> > >> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (x64) > >> Latest Firefox (35) > >> Latest Adobe Flash (.440) > > > > > > Ubuntu 14.10 x64 > > Firefox 35.0.1+built1-0ubuntu0.14.10.1 > > Adobe Flash 11.2.202.440ubuntu0.14.10.1 > > > > > > Damir B: > >> I don't know if that bug report is being reported on the Adobe forums > by > >> a Ubuntu user or by a Windows or Mac OS X user but if you visit > >> the below link in Firefox, it will bring you to your Online Settings > >> Manager; > >> > >> > >> https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 > > > > That link doesn't work for me: it says I have to install flash, even when > > it's working in other web-pages. > > > > > > Damir B: > >> The Adobe Settings Manager can also be accessed locally using the > >> following command in a terminal; > >> > >> flash-player-properties > > > > The Terminal says "command not found". > > Same for me on both points (14.10) > > Colin > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-quality mailing list > > Ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d4m1r_b at hotmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:54:09 2015 From: d4m1r_b at hotmail.com (Damir B) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:54:09 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com>, , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, , , , <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> Message-ID: I mean, there are several issues here; 1) The flash-player-properties package wasn't installed for you guys for some reason with your .440 Adobe Flash install and it was for me....Something broken with the installer or an intended change for Ubuntu 14.10 users? Since it can't find that package in the official Ubuntu repo's (if you guys are getting unable to locate package message), it almost seems like an intentional choice. I would try to see if you can track down an installer (.deb) for this package and manually install it. If this was an intentional design choice, it wasn't a good one because now you guys can only access your Adobe Flash settings via the online version.... 2) Works for all Flash related websites, but not for the Settings page. Doubt this is something Adobe is willing or even can fix just on their (webpage) end so I'd still report just this aspect on Launchpad against this latest Adobe Flash version, with the only seemingly affected version being 14.10 (and possibly only x64). 3)"Adobe said they won't fix it, and recommended Firefox to use Pepperflash", that Adobe forum moderator is obviously not familiar with the NPAPI vs Pepper implementation on linux issues so I'd just ignore his comment (he probably does not come from a developer background). 4) If you guys weren't following the latest development of Firefox, they actually released a new "Insecure Content" feature that is enabled by default (shipped with version 35). Basically, if I access the Adobe Flash online settings page with it enabled, I just get a white page with a bunch of text. If I disable it, the page then works perfectly as it has before, so there is now an additional step required to get the page working and I am now wondering if that is where you guys are fumbling....How to disable it? Well, you can't permanently from what I know but to temporarily disable it on the current page you on, look to the far left of the address bar...There should be a shield icon. Click on it, then click the Options button, and then hit "disable protection for now". It should automatically reload the page and the Adobe Flash online settings view should now be loaded and functional. Let us know if that does the trick because at this point, I am all out of ideas :) Damir Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:38:29 +0100 From: es20490446e at gmail.com Subject: Re: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working CC: ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com; ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com Damir B: > Do your guys' Adobe Flash installations work otherwise under Firefox? > I.e, you are able to play flash videos just fine (and not Youtube HTML5 > for example) but just can't access the settings panel? Yes, it works everywhere else. Damir B: > Have you tried doing; *sudo apt-get install flash-player-properties* ? The Terminal says "unable to locate package flash-player-properties". Damir B: > Because we have the same version of flash and everything works fine > for me and presumably other 12.04 users, I would say this "bug" would > be better suited to be reported against Ubuntu 14.10 on Launchpad, > and not on the Adobe forums. Because this bug only affects that particular web-page, probably the bug is only fixable in the server side. Shall I report nowadays? Regards. -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clhermansen at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:31:41 2015 From: clhermansen at gmail.com (chris hermansen) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:31:41 -0800 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: <54C93445.50809@gmail.com> References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com> <54C93445.50809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alberto, Damir; On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella < es20490446e at gmail.com> wrote: > Damir B: > >> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (x64) >> Latest Firefox (35) >> Latest Adobe Flash (.440) >> > > Ubuntu 14.10 x64 > Firefox 35.0.1+built1-0ubuntu0.14.10.1 > Adobe Flash 11.2.202.440ubuntu0.14.10.1 > On my system Ubuntu 14.10 x64 Firefox 35.0.1 (help about) Shockwave Flash 11.2.202.440 > > > Damir B: > > I don't know if that bug report is being reported on the Adobe forums > > by a Ubuntu user or by a Windows or Mac OS X user but if you visit > > the below link in Firefox, it will bring you to your Online Settings > > Manager; > > > > https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/ > flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 > > That link doesn't work for me: it says I have to install flash, even when > it's working in other web-pages. > Same story for me, asks to install Flash. > > > Damir B: > > The Adobe Settings Manager can also be accessed locally using the > > following command in a terminal; > > > > flash-player-properties > > The Terminal says "command not found". > Nor is it anywhere in /usr... -- Chris Hermansen · clhermansen "at" gmail "dot" com C'est ma façon de parler. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dev at otq.za.net Wed Jan 28 23:48:38 2015 From: dev at otq.za.net (Bruce Pieterse) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 01:48:38 +0200 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: <54C9469C.3030000@gmail.com> References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com>, , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, , , , <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> <54C9469C.3030000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54C97556.7080004@otq.za.net> On 28/01/2015 22:29, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: > Damir B: >> I'd still report just this aspect on Launchpad > > Done at > . > > If this bug affects you, please confirm at > . > > > Damir B: > > If you guys weren't following the latest development of Firefox, they > > actually released a new "Insecure Content" feature that is enabled by > > default (shipped with version 35). Basically, if I access the Adobe > > Flash online settings page with it enabled, I just get a white page > > with a bunch of text. If I disable it, the page then works perfectly > > as it has before, so there is now an additional step required to get > > the page working and I am now wondering if that is where you guys are > > fumbling.... > > You can omit this step just by going to > . > > > Thank you. > > > > Hi Alberto & Damir B, This works: http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 This doesn't: https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 (as reported but note https not http) This works: http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager06.html The reason this is not working is due to: Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/_all.js"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/template/screen.css"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/template/print.css"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/template/fixH1Size.js"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/module/SearchBuddy.js"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html TypeError: document.observe is not a function settings_manager02.html:29 ReferenceError: adobe is not defined settings_manager02.html:34 Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/ubi/globalnav/_all/gnav.js?locale=en_US"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/ubi/globalnav/_all/reimagined.js"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html Blocked loading mixed active content "http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/ubi/globalnav/_all/ims.js"[Learn More] settings_manager02.html ReferenceError: SWFObject is not defined [Learn More] points to: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Security/MixedContent This is actually needs to be fixed on Adobe's side, perhaps using protocol relative urls[1] i.e. //wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/lib/com.adobe/_all.js or all assets should be loaded from either https:// or http://. This will fix loading of assets and javascript TypeError and ReferenceErrors when accessing the page on https://. As you can see on the last line above, a javascript file can not be loaded on line 651 in the page[2] and effectively prevents a new flash object to be created: var swfo = new SWFObject( props ); which in this case is the privacy settings panel. This would also explain why there is no styling on the page as well due to css style sheets also being loaded at http:// instead of the https:// address. Tested with: Ubuntu Gnome 14.10 Flash Plugin: 11.2.202.440ubuntu0.14.10.1 Firefox: 35.0.1 Ubuntu Gnome 15.04 Flash Plugin: 11.2.202.440ubuntu1 Firefox: 34.0 In summary, Firefox is doing the right thing and that is to ensure the page you are visiting has all assets and resources loaded on https:// while blocking http:// when on https://. Otherwise, the page really isn't secure if it has mixed content loading. Secondly, this is not a problem with the flashplugin-installer package. Finally, if you clear the browser cache on 12.04, you will most likely encounter the same problem due to content already being cached in the browser and Adobe making the page available later on https during 12.04 to 15.04. Unfortunately, I can not confirm if the secure address was introduced during 12.04 to 15.04 and I don't have 12.04 installed at the moment to confirm if browser cache is making the page work, but it seems likely. File a bug report with Adobe and use either http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 or http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager06.html until the above is fixed. [1] http://www.paulirish.com/2010/the-protocol-relative-url/ [2] Use "Inspect Element" tool and switch to "Console" tab while on https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 -- All the best, Bruce FSF Member 10674 / The FSF is a charity with a worldwide mission to advance software freedom / Join the Free Software Foundation: http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=10674 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From es20490446e at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 00:28:48 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 01:28:48 +0100 Subject: Adobe Flash Online Settings Manager isn't working In-Reply-To: <54C97556.7080004@otq.za.net> References: <54C82BAA.3060900@gmail.com>, , <54C93445.50809@gmail.com>, , , , <54C93AB5.80001@gmail.com> <54C9469C.3030000@gmail.com> <54C97556.7080004@otq.za.net> Message-ID: <54C97EC0.80104@gmail.com> Bruce Pieterse: > This works: > http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 > This doesn't: > https://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager02.html#118539 > (as reported but note https not http) None works for me. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From wxl at ubuntu.com Thu Jan 29 01:30:35 2015 From: wxl at ubuntu.com (Walter Lapchynski) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 17:30:35 -0800 Subject: sorting bugs Message-ID: One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on board is helping them find which bugs to work on. I tend to follow the Pareto rule: work on the 80% you can get to right away since the other 20% are likely to take 80% of your time. So there are several strategies I have considered: * focus on invalidating or moving along New bugs * focus on moving Confirmed bugs upstream (but many involve EOL releases) * focus on high heat bugs * look through newest bugs * focus on bugs Lubuntu Packages Team is notified about But I still haven't found one that's really good. Any suggestions? Going forward, I think I'm going to work at trying to tag all bugs dealing with LXDE (and eventually LXQt) "lubuntu" since a lot of the bugs we get notified about are not so much about our core system, if you will. For example, if Abiword isn't behaving (it's often not), that's not as critical as lxsession misbehaving. I'd consider iBus to be something not specific to LXDE, but essential to our core system, so I'd include that. Does that seem like it makes sense? Is there some way to use the Launchpad API to automate this? And then there's developers. How do I help them sort through one bug from another? I've found the priorities we have to be extremely broad. I was considering the notion of a tag like "lubuntu-critical" or something of the sort to help them get a little more granularity within the different priorities. Does that make sense or is there something else someone would suggest? -- @wxl Lubuntu Release Manager, Head of QA Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader From es20490446e at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 13:58:13 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 14:58:13 +0100 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54CA3C75.2070803@gmail.com> Walter Lapchynski: > One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on > board is helping them find which bugs to work on. I tend to follow the > Pareto rule: work on the 80% you can get to right away since the other > 20% are likely to take 80% of your time. That's a good beginning, but it's not enough. The key aspect is getting bugs fixed one by one; so you are putting all your work where it will get a fix, and there's a constant flow of value. For that the first step should be setting priority to each bug that is confirmed, and not to do anything else before that. Then work on the bug with the highest priority and heat: Walter Lapchynski: > So there are several strategies I have considered: > * focus on invalidating or moving along New bugs > * focus on moving Confirmed bugs upstream (but many involve EOL > releases) > * focus on high heat bugs > * look through newest bugs > * focus on bugs Lubuntu Packages Team is notified about > But I still haven't found one that's really good. Any suggestions? That's already solved in . You are welcomed to use it, and to suggest improvements. Walter Lapchynski: > Going forward, I think I'm going to work at trying to tag all bugs > dealing with LXDE (and eventually LXQt) "lubuntu" since a lot of the > bugs we get notified about are not so much about our core system, if > you will. For example, if Abiword isn't behaving (it's often not), > that's not as critical as lxsession misbehaving. I'd consider iBus to > be something not specific to LXDE, but essential to our core system, > so I'd include that. Does that seem like it makes sense? Is there > some way to use the Launchpad API to automate this? Why distinguishing packages specific of Lubuntu? Walter Lapchynski: > I've found the priorities we have to be extremely broad. You can use instead. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From wxl at ubuntu.com Thu Jan 29 15:03:48 2015 From: wxl at ubuntu.com (Walter Lapchynski) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:03:48 -0800 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: <54CA3C75.2070803@gmail.com> References: <54CA3C75.2070803@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: > Walter Lapchynski: > > One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on > > board is helping them find which bugs to work on. I tend to follow the > > Pareto rule: work on the 80% you can get to right away since the other > > 20% are likely to take 80% of your time. > That's a good beginning, but it's not enough. The key aspect is getting bugs > fixed one by one; so you are putting all your work where it will get a fix, > and there's a constant flow of value. What I mean is working on things you can contribute to right away, e.g. that doesn't require a bunch of research or special hardware. Something where you can do _something_ right away. The idea is focusing on things you can do to move bugs forward. If you hesitate, or lack something, then that should be saved for later. > For that the first step should be setting priority to each bug that is > confirmed, and not to do anything else before that. Then work on the bug > with the highest priority and heat: Which is a task reserved for bug control members, so not everyone can do this. > > So there are several strategies I have considered: > > * focus on invalidating or moving along New bugs > > * focus on moving Confirmed bugs upstream (but many involve EOL > > releases) > > * focus on high heat bugs > > * look through newest bugs > > * focus on bugs Lubuntu Packages Team is notified about > > But I still haven't found one that's really good. Any suggestions? > That's already solved in > . You are > welcomed to use it, and to suggest improvements. Aren't they essentially triaged by the time they hit Papercuts? > > Going forward, I think I'm going to work at trying to tag all bugs > > dealing with LXDE (and eventually LXQt) "lubuntu" since a lot of the > > bugs we get notified about are not so much about our core system, if > > you will. For example, if Abiword isn't behaving (it's often not), > > that's not as critical as lxsession misbehaving. I'd consider iBus to > > be something not specific to LXDE, but essential to our core system, > > so I'd include that. Does that seem like it makes sense? Is there > > some way to use the Launchpad API to automate this? > Why distinguishing packages specific of Lubuntu? Because that is the focus of our team. We have very, very few triagers. We must have some sort of focus and priority or we'll never get anything useful done. For that matter, we only have a few developers! > > I've found the priorities we have to be extremely broad. > You can use > > instead. I'm not solely concerned with the easiest to fix bugs. -- @wxl Lubuntu Release Manager, Head of QA Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader From brian at ubuntu.com Thu Jan 29 15:31:23 2015 From: brian at ubuntu.com (Brian Murray) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 07:31:23 -0800 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150129153123.GP4610@murraytwins.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:30:35PM -0800, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on > board is helping them find which bugs to work on. If these are people brand new to bug triage, then I'd have them work on a piece of software that interests them. Let's say I like hiking (true), so I use gpsprune and pytrainer to manage my gps tracks. Subsequently, I'm likely to be familiar with both pieces of software and in a position to better recreate any bugs reported about them. Additionally, I have a personal interest in making the software better so will be more motivated to do the right thing and work conscientiously. Then when people have the principles down have them move onto things that they are less familiar with and which may be more complicated. -- Brian Murray Ubuntu Bug Master -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From teward at trekweb.org Thu Jan 29 15:35:41 2015 From: teward at trekweb.org (Thomas Ward) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:35:41 -0500 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: References: <54CA3C75.2070803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54CA534D.8070901@trekweb.org> Just adding my perspective: On 01/29/2015 10:03 AM, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella > wrote: >> Walter Lapchynski: >> > One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on >> > board is helping them find which bugs to work on. I tend to follow the >> > Pareto rule: work on the 80% you can get to right away since the other >> > 20% are likely to take 80% of your time. >> That's a good beginning, but it's not enough. The key aspect is getting bugs >> fixed one by one; so you are putting all your work where it will get a fix, >> and there's a constant flow of value. > What I mean is working on things you can contribute to right away, > e.g. that doesn't require a bunch of research or special hardware. > Something where you can do _something_ right away. The idea is > focusing on things you can do to move bugs forward. If you hesitate, > or lack something, then that should be saved for later. To clairfy: generic all-hardware bugs rather than hardware-specific bugs are likely to be better starting points for new triagers. However, keep in mind my comments later on here (READ MY COMMENTS!). >> For that the first step should be setting priority to each bug that is >> confirmed, and not to do anything else before that. Then work on the bug >> with the highest priority and heat: > Which is a task reserved for bug control members, so not everyone can do this. This is true, however, this is why we should have bug controllers lurking ready to set importance. HOWEVER, we need to have additional clarification from a non-controller triager who wants a specific importance as to *why* it qualifies for that importance. This has been part of triage from day one if someone can't set importance and has to ask: they need to have a justification. > >> > So there are several strategies I have considered: >> > * focus on invalidating or moving along New bugs >> > * focus on moving Confirmed bugs upstream (but many involve EOL >> > releases) >> > * focus on high heat bugs >> > * look through newest bugs >> > * focus on bugs Lubuntu Packages Team is notified about >> > But I still haven't found one that's really good. Any suggestions? >> That's already solved in >> . You are >> welcomed to use it, and to suggest improvements. > Aren't they essentially triaged by the time they hit Papercuts? > >> > Going forward, I think I'm going to work at trying to tag all bugs >> > dealing with LXDE (and eventually LXQt) "lubuntu" since a lot of the >> > bugs we get notified about are not so much about our core system, if >> > you will. For example, if Abiword isn't behaving (it's often not), >> > that's not as critical as lxsession misbehaving. I'd consider iBus to >> > be something not specific to LXDE, but essential to our core system, >> > so I'd include that. Does that seem like it makes sense? Is there >> > some way to use the Launchpad API to automate this? >> Why distinguishing packages specific of Lubuntu? > Because that is the focus of our team. We have very, very few > triagers. We must have some sort of focus and priority or we'll never > get anything useful done. For that matter, we only have a few > developers! Alberto, Walter here is part of Lubuntu QA (if not the lead). Therefore, their primary focus is Lubuntu packages and stuff directly impacting Lubuntu itself, rather than more generic bugs in Universe packages and such (except for ones used in Lubuntu, but if they're on the image, they should probably not be in Universe) > >> > I've found the priorities we have to be extremely broad. >> You can use >> >> instead. > I'm not solely concerned with the easiest to fix bugs. Echoing this. The "easiest to fix" bugs are sometimes the least priority, most insignificant bugs. Examples are typos in a translation, or a typo in the packaging's description in debian/control, or such. When we look at 'easiest to fix' bugs, we also have to look at how widely the bug impacts something - if it's going to fix a segfault in a package in Vivid or fixes functionality that is highly desired by a majority (say, for example, php5-fpm's permissions which were broken in a security update a while ago and needed additional changes to fix issues), then it obviously needs to be handled faster and more expediently than a minor typo in a package's description which doesn't actually need to be fixed. And because an email came in later I'm going to copy in Brian Murray's email to here: On 01/29/2015 10:31 AM, Brian Murray wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:30:35PM -0800, Walter Lapchynski wrote: >> One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on >> board is helping them find which bugs to work on. > If these are people brand new to bug triage, then I'd have them work on > a piece of software that interests them. Let's say I like hiking (true), > so I use gpsprune and pytrainer to manage my gps tracks. Subsequently, > I'm likely to be familiar with both pieces of software and in a position > to better recreate any bugs reported about them. Additionally, I have a > personal interest in making the software better so will be more > motivated to do the right thing and work conscientiously. > > Then when people have the principles down have them move onto things > that they are less familiar with and which may be more complicated. > > -- > Brian Murray > Ubuntu Bug Master I second Brian here - if someone is brand new to triage, they may want to start on a piece of software that interests them. This is a good way to get into triage. With me, this was the ZNC and NGINX packages, as well as some PHP packages. Granted, these are server packages and not typically on the Papercuts project's radar, but that's how I got started in triage as something I do regularly. ------ Thomas From es20490446e at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 17:31:52 2015 From: es20490446e at gmail.com (Alberto Salvia Novella) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 18:31:52 +0100 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: References: <54CA3C75.2070803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54CA6E88.3040706@gmail.com> Walter Lapchynski: > What I mean is working on things you can contribute to right away, > e.g. that doesn't require a bunch of research or special hardware. > Something where you can do_something_ right away. The idea is > focusing on things you can do to move bugs forward. If you hesitate, > or lack something, then that should be saved for later. Brian Tracy: > If you have to eat more than one frog, eat the ugliest one first. > What this means is, do the worst first. Do the biggest, most > difficult task first because that’s the one that makes most of the > difference. Alberto Salvia Novella: > For that the first step should be setting priority to each bug that > is confirmed, and not to do anything else before that. Then work on > the bug with the highest priority and heat. Walter Lapchynski: > Which is a task reserved for bug control members, so not everyone can > do this. Luckily: . Walter Lapchynski: > Aren't they essentially triaged by the time they hit Papercuts? There are 18 triaged and 58 confirmed papercuts. Walter Lapchynski: > You can use flow/Importance> instead. Walter Lapchynski: > I'm not solely concerned with the easiest to fix bugs. These priorities fit , it's just they are written shorter. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3748 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From brian at ubuntu.com Fri Jan 30 00:24:42 2015 From: brian at ubuntu.com (Brian Murray) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:24:42 -0800 Subject: sorting bugs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150130002441.GC1333@murraytwins.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 05:30:35PM -0800, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > One thing I've struggled with in trying to get new bug triagers on > board is helping them find which bugs to work on. I tend to follow the > Pareto rule: work on the 80% you can get to right away since the other > 20% are likely to take 80% of your time. > > So there are several strategies I have considered: > * focus on invalidating or moving along New bugs > * focus on moving Confirmed bugs upstream (but many involve EOL releases) > * focus on high heat bugs > * look through newest bugs > * focus on bugs Lubuntu Packages Team is notified about > But I still haven't found one that's really good. Any suggestions? > > Going forward, I think I'm going to work at trying to tag all bugs > dealing with LXDE (and eventually LXQt) "lubuntu" since a lot of the > bugs we get notified about are not so much about our core system, if > you will. For example, if Abiword isn't behaving (it's often not), > that's not as critical as lxsession misbehaving. I'd consider iBus to > be something not specific to LXDE, but essential to our core system, > so I'd include that. Does that seem like it makes sense? Is there some > way to use the Launchpad API to automate this? There are a couple of different ways to handle this. 1) Create a team and subscribe them to all bugs about packages that fall under this LXDE umbrella. 2) Write an apport general hook that would tag the bugs lubuntu when they are filed from Lubuntu systems and about packages in the is LXDE umbrella. 3) Write some launchpad API code to tag bugs lubuntu for the packages in the LXDE umbrella. (This would likely be useful in conjunction with number 2 as it would only catch new things.) > And then there's developers. How do I help them sort through one bug > from another? I've found the priorities we have to be extremely broad. > I was considering the notion of a tag like "lubuntu-critical" or > something of the sort to help them get a little more granularity > within the different priorities. Does that make sense or is there > something else someone would suggest? Launchpad contains milestones and release targets / nominations to help prioritize bugs. -- Brian Murray Ubuntu Bug Master -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: