launchpad +filebug redirect

Tue Sep 7 00:56:47 UTC 2010

Thanks a lot for feedback!
We could either link to section 5 from section 4, or rename section 4 so it
doesn't look like it's the final step.

Thanks again,
Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Evan <eapache at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi
> <ilidrissiamine at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've set up a prototype page. Please
> > visit
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MohamedAmineILIdrissi/ReportingBugsAlternate and
> > share your thoughts (especially on the TODO bits).
> > Thanks,
> > Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi
>
> I quite like it. I've already made some minor tweaks here and there.
>
> My biggest question is whether section 5 "Write a Useful Report"
> should be before section 4 "File the Bug". I imagine that most people
> will run ubuntu-bug in section 4 and finish the whole process before
> going to section 5 - at which point it is too late to instruct them on
> how to write good reports. Another option would be to merge them
> somehow. Thoughts?
>
> Evan
>
> > On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi
> > <ilidrissiamine at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of rewriting the ReportingBugs page. I'll re-post
> when
> >> I'll have something working.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Charlie Kravetz
> >> <cjk at teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:04:38 -0400
> >>> David Tombs <cyan.spam at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > On 09/01/2010 03:00 PM, Philip Muskovac wrote:
> >>> > > On 09/01/2010 08:59 PM, Philip Muskovac wrote:
> >>> > >> On 09/01/2010 08:10 PM, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> >>> > >>> On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:36:46 +0000
> >>> > >>> Mohammed Amine IL Idrissi <ilidrissiamine at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> People who are not interested in reading text already click the
> >>> > >>>> link
> >>> > >>>> to file a bug immediately, since there is a link to it in
> >>> > >>>> ReportingBugs. Creating another wiki page would reduce the
> amount
> >>> > >>>> of
> >>> > >>>> text people would have to read, without removing the
> instructions
> >>> > >>>> for
> >>> > >>>> those who want to file good bug reports.
> >>> > >>>> Adding to this, we could tell them to run "ubuntu-bug <package>"
> >>> > >>>> where
> >>> > >>>> <package> is found according to Bugs/FindRightPackage, or to run
> >>> > >>>> "ubuntu-bug" if they are not sure, and follow the instructions.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> What would be ideal is that the user follow these steps:
> >>> > >>>> 1. Run "ubuntu-bug".
> >>> > >>>> 2. The current window opens, but with two more options:
> >>> > >>>> "Application
> >>> > >>>> problem" and "Specific package problem (advanced)".
> >>> > >>>> 2a. Choosing "Application problem" will open a window where you
> >>> > >>>> can
> >>> > >>>> drag-and-drop an application from the menu.
> >>> > >>>> 2b. Choosing "Specific package problem" will show a text entry
> >>> > >>>> where
> >>> > >>>> the user can type the package name.
> >>> > >>>> 3. If the user still can't know the specific problem, an alert
> >>> > >>>> shows
> >>> > >>>> and warns him that filing a bug without a package is not
> >>> > >>>> recommended,
> >>> > >>>> with a checkbox named: "This bug is about an application that
> >>> > >>>> needs
> >>> > >>>> packaging".
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> Thank you,
> >>> > >>>> Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Krzysztof Klimonda
> >>> > >>>> <kklimonda at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>> On Wed, 2010-09-01 at 17:13 +0000, Mohammed Amine IL Idrissi
> >>> > >>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>>>>> Maybe we could redirect them to another wiki page that
> explains
> >>> > >>>>>> that
> >>> > >>>>>> this is not the recommended way to report a bug, and then give
> >>> > >>>>>> them a
> >>> > >>>>>> link to file a bug anyway, and a link to ReportingBugs.
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> But that would defeat the purpose of ReportingBug page as most
> >>> > >>>>> visitors
> >>> > >>>>> wouldn't ever read it but click the link to file a bug
> >>> > >>>>> immediately.
> >>> > >>>>> People who have problems are not interested in reading text,
> they
> >>> > >>>>> just
> >>> > >>>>> want to get their it fixed. Unfortunately this way they file
> low
> >>> > >>>>> quality
> >>> > >>>>> reports that make our work harder and most of us are not
> >>> > >>>>> full-time bug
> >>> > >>>>> triagers. We already get more reports we can really deal with
> >>> > >>>>> (i.e.
> >>> > >>>>> triage and fix in stable release) anyway.
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> Cheers,
> >>> > >>>>>  KK
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>> --
> >>> > >>>>> Ubuntu-bugsquad mailing list
> >>> > >>>>> Ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com
> >>> > >>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> So, even though we already have the link, and people don't bother
> >>> > >>> reading, you suggest another wiki page to further complicate
> their
> >>> > >>> desire to file bad bugs? We already tell them the recommended way
> >>> > >>> to
> >>> > >>> file the bug, if they ignore that, why make it easier to ignore?
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> The link at the top was added recently:
> >>> > >> 140        2010-08-07 10:57:04     11547           oCean_
> >>> > >>  Mention the no-redirect
> >>> > >> url at top
> >>> > >> from the launchpad page oCean_ seems to be a new user, does anyone
> >>> > >> know
> >>> > >> him? I don't like the link being at the top either.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Also, as I already wrote: the reporting guidelines at the +filebug
> >>> > >> page
> >>> > >> originally only required the user to add the application package
> if
> >>> > >> possible, the app version and the ubuntu release they're running.
> >>> > >> Many
> >>> > >> happily ignored that, so why do you think they would actually stop
> >>> > >> filing the bug there and click themselves through like a dozen
> >>> > >> windows
> >>> > >> for a kernel report? I seriously doubt they would do that.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> As for needs-packaging. The official documentation for that [1]
> has
> >>> > >> a
> >>> > >> link that uses ?no-redirect and adds the tag to the bug. Why don't
> >>> > >> people use that? You can file bugs with gpg signed mails too btw
> >>> > >> which
> >>> > >> would be another easy way to file those IMO.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Actually add the reference -.-
> >>> > >
> >>> > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > Well, I did not mean to start such a big discussion here; I don't
> think
> >>> > the problem is /that/ bad, so I don't think it needs a complex
> >>> > solution. :)
> >>> >
> >>> > To clarify my problem statement, the Reporting Bugs howto just has
> too
> >>> > much header material. You have:
> >>> >
> >>> > 1) Some BOLD text which catches your eye, possibly unrelated to the
> >>> > reason you came to the page.
> >>> > 2) A redundant "Reporting bugs" header, which further emphasizes the
> >>> > awkwardness of the bold text.
> >>> > 3) A reasonable intro.
> >>> > 4) Note 1 -- more distraction.
> >>> > 5) Note 2 -- and more distraction.
> >>> >
> >>> > This is just not user-friendly. A smattering of notes and
> distractions
> >>> > just obfuscates the real information on the page and makes it less
> >>> > useful. Perhaps you don't agree with me, but in both my personal and
> >>> > professional life I have found this to be true.
> >>> >
> >>> > If changing launchpad would be too hard, the idea of an alternative
> >>> > redirect page makes a lot of sense to me. How about the following
> >>> > content:
> >>> >
> >>> > -------
> >>> > Since you've ended up on this page, you were probably trying to file
> a
> >>> > bug about Ubuntu in Launchpad. Although filing directly on Launchpad
> >>> > used to be an acceptable method of reporting a bug, using tools
> >>> > built-in
> >>> > to your Ubuntu system is now recommended. Please see
> >>> > [[https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs|Reporting Bugs]]
> for
> >>> > instructions.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you for your cooperation.
> >>> > -------
> >>> >
> >>> > Disagreements welcome, but please explain why this idea would be
> >>> > inferior to the status quo. Thanks!
> >>> >
> >>> > Regards,
> >>> > David
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Somehow, redirecting me to the same page I started on is not good. Why
> >>> do we have to redirect the user at all. If the page is written that
> >>> bad, why not suggest a re-write, instead of a re-direct. If they are
> >>> going to read the new page they are sent to, they will read the page
> >>> they are already at.
> >>>
> >>> - --
> >>> Charlie Kravetz
> >>> Linux Registered User Number 425914          [http://counter.li.org/]
> >>> Never let anyone steal your DREAM.           [http://keepingdreams.com
> ]
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> >>> --
> >>> Ubuntu-bugsquad mailing list
> >>> Ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com
> >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-bugsquad mailing list
> > Ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ubuntu-bugsquad mailing list
> Ubuntu-bugsquad at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugsquad
>
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