[Ubuntu Wiki] Update of "BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2010-12-14" by hggdh2
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Tue Dec 14 19:14:32 UTC 2010
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http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting/Minutes/2010-12-14?action=diff&rev1=5&rev2=6
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## Only topics discussed during the meetings should be put in the minutes.
## Status reporting is done via another channel.
- ==== Proper place to file translation bugs in packages ====
+ ==== Mentorship Updates ====
- The bugsquad and the translations team discussed the current approach on handling translation bugs and ways to optimize it.
+ Not much here, most of the mentors were not present. hggdh will add more mentees to the alpha team.
- This general approach and its background are described on the [[Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs#Background|page on handling Ubuntu Translations bugs]], and to summarize translation bugs are reported against the [[https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations|Ubuntu Translations project in Launchpad]], with the [[UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators|Ubuntu Translations Coordinators]] team acting as the bug supervisor.
+ ==== BugSquad wiki pages update ====
- The main points of discussion were the duplication of work in having a task for the ubuntu package and the ubuntu-translations project, and the difficulty in the bugsquad and UTC teams to collaborate in setting the status of the bugs for the tasks, i.e. the lack of permissions for both teams involved.
+ nigelb will keep on on the header consolidation. Carrying over.
+ ===== Split of HowToTriage into basic and advanced pages =====
- * It was agreed that given the low number of translations bugs, having a separate, additional task for ubuntu-translations would not be a problem for the Bugsquad.
- * It was agreed that the Bugsquad would be added as a Bug Supervisor for the Ubuntu Translations project (`ubuntu-translations`) in a way that does not affect the permissions of any of the teams (`ubuntu-translations-coordinators`, `ubuntu-bugcontrol`)
- * It was also agreed that an ubuntu-translations task should be opern for all translation bugs straight away, without the need to wait until they've been marked as triaged. The reason being that the ubuntu-translationa project was mostly meant for keeping track of all translation bugs, what would you say. Furthermore, translation bugs are easily identifyable, i.e. when one is spotted it is generally quite obvious that it is a translations-related bug, so it makes sense to file it against ubuntu-translations directly.
- * `qense` will document the translations bug workflow on [[Bugs/HowtoTriage]]
- * `dpm` will create a new team `ubuntu-translations-bugsupervisors`, add `ubuntu-translations-coordinators` and `ubuntu-bugcontrol` as members and set this new team as the Bug Supervisor for `ubuntu-translations`
- ===== Use of bug tags for translation bugs =====
+ devildante is working on this, but was MIA this meeting. Will carry over.
- `dpm` asked for some advice and feedback on the usage of tags for translations-related bugs, as documented on the [[Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs#Tagging|page on handling Ubuntu Translations bugs]]. Some pieces of advice from the Bugsquad:
+ ==== Gnome3 bug handling ====
+ Gnome3 is being currently published on the Desktop PPA. The desktop team would like to tag Gnome3 bugs, in order to allow to separate them from the in-progress work for Natty. As of now it is unknown if we will be able to provide Gnome3 on Natty (so the PPA). It has not yet been decided how to deal with Gnome3 bugs generically. We agreed that:
- * Tagging is still very much ad hoc. It might help for to prefix the translation tags with -- say -- 'tr', or 'trans' -- so that there will be less chance of conflicts
- * The translations team could look into getting some of their tags listed as [[http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/official-bug-tags|official]], adding them to [[Bugs/Tags]] and sending an email to bugsquad/control explaining why they are being added there
- ==== Additional topics ====
+ * we will add 'gnome3' as an official tag; ''only''bugs relating to Gnome3 will be so tagged;
+ * we will add a comment on the tag stating that these are (right now) PPA bugs, and should not be touched by the triager community at-large (developers/maintainers will deal with them, until a clear course of action is defined);
+ * to allow easier/immediate identification, the bug title should start with '[GNOME3]'.
- It was agreed to discuss the rest of the topics on the next meeting:
+ An additional note: since these packages come from a PPA, there will be no automatic apport triggering. The only way is to manually enter the bug.
+ bdmurray will add the tag to the official list.
- * What to do with obsolete packages regarding bugs in Ubuntu -- micahg
- * Mention of #ubuntu-bugs for Triage in LP -- micahg
- * Open Discussions
- Additional topics Proposed:
+ ==== Open Discussion ====
- * Defining a Roadmap for the BugSquad -- qense
- * Pollution caused by pending release nominations -- hggdh2
- * Going through release nominations (more accessible [[https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+nominations?field.searchtext=&orderby=date_last_updated&search=Search&field.status:list=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status:list=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.component-empty-marker=1&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_no_package.used=|search]], creation of "Hardy driver" LP group with privs to reject tasks) -- Laibsch (please invite me to the discussion, I should be online)
- * Backporting of newest apport (if possible) to all stable releases (in concept) -- micahg
+ * charlie-tca reminded the team that a launchpad bug jam is currently in progress, and help is appreciated ([[https://dev.launchpad.net/BugJam|launchpad bugJam]].
+
+ ==== next chair ====
+
+ hggdh was self-elected (I forgot to ask for a next chair...)
== Log ==
{{{
+ [16:58] <ElPasmo> hi, will the bugsquad meeting be now here?
+ [17:00] <pedro_> i think so , it says 1700 UTC
+ [17:01] <ElPasmo> great, thanks pedro_
+ [17:01] <pedro_> hggdh, are you chairing the meeting? the wiki says so :-P
+ [17:12] <c2tarun> anyone here?
+ [17:12] <yofel> c2tarun: we're searching for hggdh
+ [17:12] <c2tarun> ok :)
- [16:00] <qense> bdmurray, micahg, pedro_, adiroiban, and others: meeting!
- [16:00] <mrand> Yeah, saw that. I've been a huge fan (and user, and debugger) of Firefox since it was born as Phoenix
- [16:01] <adiroiban> hi
- [16:02] <mrand> As usual, I'll contribute what and when I can, but I can't get too distracted.
- [16:02] <qense> the agenda is at <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Meeting>, for those interested but unaware of the agenda
- [16:02] <qense> ah, forgot one, ping: hggdh
- [16:02] <dpm> hi all
- [16:02] <Laibsch> Moin!
- [16:02] <qense> hello
- [16:02] <hggdh> pong
- [16:03] * micahg thinks translation bugs should be top priority
- [16:03] <qense> yep
- [16:04] <micahg> for this meeting at least ;)
- [16:04] <qense> dpm, maybe you could start with a quick explanation of the way Translations uses LP now, for those who haven't followed the maillist discussion?
- [16:04] <dpm> qense, sure
- [16:06] <dpm> here is some background (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs). Basically, the way the translations team handles bugs is:
- [16:06] <dpm> we've got a LP project
- [16:06] <dpm> called ubuntu-translations
- [16:06] <dpm> the idea is to report all translations-related bugs there
- [16:07] <dpm> the UTC (ubuntu-translations-coordinators) is set as the project driver
- [16:07] <micahg> dpm: what about the tasks for the ubuntu package/
- [16:07] <dpm> and takes care of triaging and fixing
- [16:07] <micahg> should they be marked as triaged pending action from the translators team?
- [16:07] <mrand> dpm: reported ubuntu-translations even if the translation for that app is handled upstream?
- [16:08] <pedro_> micahg, that's what i've been doing so far
- [16:09] <micahg> pedro_: me too, but I want to verify if that's the process we want to keep
- [16:09] <pedro_> btw the ubuntu-translators team is *pretty* fast to solve issues there
- [16:09] <dpm> micahg, it sounds good to me if it sounds good to the bugsquad
- [16:09] <dpm> :)
- [16:09] <qense> Currently we have mostly two tasks: one for the source pacakge -- often filed by a user via the ubuntu LP project -- and one for the ubuntu-translations project. Most bugs are handled pretty fast by teh translators. However, they can't use all statuses for the source package task.
- [16:10] <dpm> the problem we had on the last hugday was that the bugsquad could not set "our" bugs as confirmed
- [16:10] <dpm> and what qsense is pointing out ^
- [16:10] <qense> On top of that the two different tasks cause extra work and mail noise.
- [16:10] <micahg> hmm, confirmed should be allowed on any project that's public
- [16:11] <micahg> triaged can't be set
- [16:11] <hggdh> the only thing I am not sure about (not even if it is needed) is that -- by assigning the bug to ubuntu-translators we lose track of the real affected package
- [16:11] <micahg> hggdh: that's why we mark the ubuntu task as triaged
- [16:11] <dpm> micahg, sorry for the confusion. yeah, triaged
- [16:11] <qense> The Translators did say to prefer a separate ubuntu-translations project so they can keep track of all translation bugs.
- [16:11] <qense> hggdg: there are two tasks iirc
- [16:11] <hggdh> oh
+ [17:13] <hggdh> oh
+ [17:13] <hggdh> sorry, busy
+ [17:13] <hggdh> so...
+ [17:13] <hggdh> #startmeeting
+ [17:13] <hggdh> hellooooo
+ [17:13] <pedro_> hi there!
+ [17:13] <gtriderxc> 8
+ [17:13] <hggdh> where's the bot?
+ [17:13] <ElPasmo> hi there :)
+ [17:13] <c2tarun> busy too .. :P
+ [17:14] <yofel> mistook the 1 in the date for a 2 and went on vacation too early
+ [17:14] <hggdh> OK. The meeting is officially started (late, though, sorry). The bot does not seem to be here
+ [17:15] <hggdh> first, on the actions from the previous meetings
+ [17:15] <hggdh> er. This does not seem to be correct, but there I go:
+ [17:16] <hggdh> 1. Bug Day to be created for regression-potential tags
+ [17:16] <hggdh> did we not already discuss this?
+ [17:16] <pedro_> i think we already did that, yes
+ [17:17] <hggdh> heh. So the agenda is out-of-date... at least for the "previous meetings"
+ [17:17] <hggdh> so let's jump over to Mentorship programme update
+ [17:17] <pedro_> it was ran on 2010 10 21
+ [17:18] * charlie-tca waves
+ [17:18] <hggdh> mentors -- please update on status
+ [17:19] <hggdh> from my side: ojap is slowly going on
+ [17:20] <hggdh> pedro_, vish, charlie-tca, yofel, & co: any updates on mentorship
- [16:11] * hggdh is slow as usual
- [16:12] <hggdh> and I beg all pardon
- [16:12] <dpm> I agree that the extra bug task is a downside, but is it that much of a problem given the number of translation bugs?
- [16:12] <qense> pardon granted
- [16:13] <micahg> dpm: one task isn't much of a problem
- [16:13] <micahg> it's the same as upstreaming
- [16:13] <qense> It is not much of a problem to me, but I could imagine that when you handle a lot of bugs it could cause you extra time. What seems to be the biggest problem here is the lack of permissions for both teams involved.
- [16:13] <dpm> mrand, if the translation is handled upstream, we tend to point the reporters to upstream and close the ubuntu-translations task as invalid
- [16:13] <adiroiban> I assume the permissions could be fixed
- [16:13] <micahg> qense: I don't think that we should have triage permissions for the translators team
- [16:14] <mrand> dpm: cool. thanks.
- [16:14] <dpm> ok, so we seem to agree that additional tasks in this particular case is not much of an issue
- [16:14] <dpm> and that the issue is permissions
- [16:14] <micahg> the whole point of triage permissions is to verify that a real issue exists
- [16:14] <micahg> the translators team would know best where that effort should be
- [16:15] <qense> Now there are two people with permissions necessary to properly mark one translation bug.
- [16:15] <micahg> hence, we can confim the issue, and if they can fix it mark triaged and take the appropriate action
- [16:15] <micahg> qense: adding translators team to bug control might be an option
- [16:16] <qense> So first 'Confirmed', then a ubuntu-translations tasks and when they're done a 'Triaged' to the ubuntu task
- [16:16] <qense> ?
- [16:16] <micahg> but I don't think it makes sense the other way
- [16:16] <adiroiban> or add bug control to ubuntu-translations project :)
- [16:16] <thekorn> or leave it as it is right now ;)
- [16:16] <adiroiban> :)
- [16:17] <qense> btw, there is not explanation for this type of bug on Bugs/HowToTriage, shall I add one after this meeting?
- [16:17] <dpm> qense, sounds great to me :)
- [16:17] <micahg> qense: I thought that was the point of the meeting agenda item, to nail down the specifics
- [16:17] <qense> because that's (part of) the main problem, I feel, the process isn't/wasn't well-known by the traigers.
- [16:18] <qense> yes, the specifics
- [16:18] <qense> is there a specific translators team for bug handling?
- [16:18] <dpm> qense, we can then even remove the HandlingBugs page on the Translations wiki and point folks to the Bugs/HowToTriage one
- [16:18] <micahg> hmm,maybe it does make sense to have bug control set triaged on the translators bugs
- [16:18] <dpm> qense, ubuntu-translations-coordinators
- [16:18] <micahg> triaged in ubuntu mean ready for dev to look at
- [16:19] <qense> dpm: I wouldn't remvoe that page completely, but instead point to it from the HowTotTiage page
- [16:19] <dpm> qense, ok, sounds good
- [16:19] <qense> the translators are the devs here, so technically they shouldn't have to do anything with the Ubuntu task
- [16:20] <micahg> qense: ok, so maybe my initial proposal was wrong...
- [16:20] <qense> however, that would be a bit inefficient, so maybe adding the translators team to the bugcontrol, or a bug handling subset of the translators team, would be indeed the best solution
- [16:20] <hggdh> I agree
- [16:20] <micahg> qense: I think adiroiban had the better proposal
- [16:21] <dpm> I also think adding bug control to ubuntu-translations might be a good idea
- [16:21] <micahg> then the triager in Ubuntu can set the translations task as triaged which tells them they need to look at it
- [16:21] <qense> That would make sense. people join the bugsquad to triage bugs and they join the translation team to translate, not to triage other bugs
- [16:21] <qense> Maybe we could have some kind of Adopt-a(n)-Upstream/Package subgroup later on that focuses on translation bugs?
- [16:21] <micahg> dpm +1
- [16:22] <micahg> qense: I think that will divide our efforts further
- [16:22] <qense> ok, it was just something that came up in my mind
- [16:23] <micahg> qense: maybe one day when we have better coverage
- [16:23] <qense> so we agree that the Ubuntu Bug Control team shouold get bug permissions for the ubuntu-translations project?
- [16:23] <dpm> +1
- [16:24] <micahg> +1
- [16:24] <qense> +1 from me too
- [16:24] <micahg> feels weird having a meeting w/out bdmurray
- [16:24] <thekorn> +1 if we write down something about the process in our wiki
- [16:25] <qense> I'll add a section to Bugs/HowToTriage, would that be sufficient?
- [16:25] <thekorn> YES, great
- [16:25] <qense> btw, who will write down the minutes of this meeting?
- [16:25] <dpm> qense, I'll subscribe to that page in order to add a link to it on the Translations/HandlingBugs page when finished
- [16:26] <xteejx> bug 509376, I really don't think this should have been Invalidated, it is clearly a bug if jockey is blacklisting the nvidia driver!!
- [16:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 509376 in jockey "[lucid] nvidia-current failed to initialise" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/509376
- [16:26] <qense> dpm: okay
- [16:26] <dpm> if no one else volunteers, I can take care of the minutes
- [16:27] <dpm> re: the adopt-apackage/upstream proposal, I think for now what we can do is to simply use the ubuntu-translations project as a target for regular hugdays like the one some weeks ago
- [16:28] <qense> okay, that means this topic is done now?
- [16:28] <dpm> just one sec
- [16:29] <dpm> the translations team is still learning on bug triaging, etc and I've got one quick question:
- [16:29] <dpm> We discussed the use of tags for translation bugs in the past
- [16:29] <dpm> We've made a list here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs#Tagging
- [16:29] <dpm> Do you guys havve got any feedback, tips, advice on bug tagging?
- [16:30] <qense> xteejx: it could have to do with the transition to the new proprietary nvidia drivers packaging layout, in that case users upgrading in a later stage wouldn't suffer from this bug and Invalid would be the right state.
- [16:31] <xteejx> qense: Ahh ok, thanks for clearing that up :)
- [16:32] <hggdh> tagging is still very much ad hoc. It might help for you to prefix the translation tags with -- say -- 'tr', or 'trans' -- so that there will be less chance of conflicts
- [16:32] <qense> dpm: are you aware of the difference between official and unofficial tags? I'm not sure how tags behave when the bug has tasks for multiple projects, though/
- [16:32] <dpm> qense, I've heard about them, but I'm not too clear on the distiction right now
- [16:33] <qense> Official tasks get listed on the bugs overview page
- [16:33] <dpm> although in the past there has been discussions on making the i18n or l10n tags official to give more relevance to translations-related bugs
- [16:34] <qense> You could use tags to help the different i10n teams
- [16:34] <hggdh> some tags are used "everywhere" -- like the regression* ones; these are the official ones. Others are specific to a project/usage, and completely out of control
- [16:35] <dpm> how can we "apply" for translation-related tags to be made official for the ubuntu project?
- [16:35] <dpm> (when relevant)
- [16:36] <qense> not sure, bug control administrators maybe?
- [16:36] <dpm> I'll look into it, then, thanks
- [16:37] <hggdh> pretty much by adding your tags to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags page (since you are dealing with bugs also)
- [16:37] <dpm> thanks a lot for the advice and the feedback
- [16:37] <hggdh> and sending out an email to bugsquad/control explaining why you are adding them there
- [16:38] <dpm> ok, thanks
- [16:38] <dpm> otherwise, I think that's all from my part on translations, unless adiroiban or ArneGoetje have something else to add
- [16:38] <micahg> hggdh: does the ubuntu bug project admin have to mark them in LP in any wya?
- [16:39] <hggdh> micahg: to my knowledge, no -- tags are still ad hoc. But I do not know the internals of LP/Malone
- [16:40] <qense> hggdh: iirc there is a list of official tags on bugs.launchpad.net/{project}
- [16:42] <qense> was that a split?
- === Pici` is now known as Pici
- [16:43] <xteejx> yeah
- [16:44] <hggdh> qense: I am not sure these are real official tags, or tags found in bugs. For example, Evolution lists a 'junk' tag...
- [16:45] <qense> hggdh: found it! http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/official-bug-tags
- [16:46] <hggdh> cool, qense, thank you
- [16:46] <dpm> ah, great, thanks
- [16:48] <qense> one question: should people open a ubuntu-translations task for all translation bugs, or only after they've been marked as triaged?
- [16:49] <qense> I'd go for right away since the u-trans project was mostly meant for keeping track of all translation bgs, what would you say?
- [16:50] <dpm> qense, yes, I think so. Furthermore, translation bugs are easily identifyable. What I mean is that when you spot one it is generally quite obvious that it is a translations-related bug
- [16:50] <dpm> so it makes sense to file it against u-t straight away
- [16:51] <qense> yes
- [16:57] <qense> It's now almost 17.00 UTC. What shall we do with the points that weren't discussed. Micahg, you added most of them, what do you think?
- [16:57] <micahg> heh, wait till next month :)
- [16:57] <micahg> translations was the big ting
- [16:57] <micahg> thing
- [16:57] <dpm> yeah, the meeting was quite productive from my pov anyway
- [16:57] <dpm> very
- [16:58] <qense> good
- [16:58] <micahg> so, dpm if you can add ubuntu-bugcontrol as a member of the translations-coordinators team, that allow us to set the triaged status
- [16:58] <qense> dpm, if you or someone else from your team has got any questions about the bug triaging process, please feel free to mail the bugsquad maillist or come to this IRC channel
- [16:59] <micahg> dpm: maybe setting us as bug supervisor would be enough? idk if that would remove your teams abilities though
- [16:59] <qense> You could make a separate Ubuntu Translations Bug Supervisor team and make both teams a member of it,
- [17:00] <qense> That way you wouldn't give away permissions to both teams
- [17:00] <micahg> that works too
- [17:00] <dpm> micahg, I'll have to look into that, since adding bugcontrol to the team might not be an option (otherwise everyone can modify LP translation templates) - qsense's suggestion seems like the best option to me
- [17:01] <micahg> dpm: k
- [17:01] <hggdh> dpm: the translation team -- is it a restricted tem?
- [17:01] <hggdh> team
+ [17:20] <hggdh> ?
- [17:01] <micahg> yep
- [17:01] <hggdh> so why not just add it to bug-control?
- [17:01] * micahg checked earlier
+ [17:20] * yofel isn't a mentor
+ [17:20] <pedro_> as in now , i don't have any student
+ [17:20] <charlie-tca> I am going to have the logo images broken down for us
+ [17:20] * hggdh considers yofel *should* be one ;-)
+ [17:20] <charlie-tca> I have no mentees
+ [17:20] <pedro_> yeah yofel, definitely ;-)
+ [17:20] <charlie-tca> +1 for yofel to have at least oen
+ [17:21] * charlie-tca should hide now
+ [17:21] <ElPasmo> oen?
+ [17:21] <pedro_> heh
+ [17:21] * yofel hides and put's on an invisibility cape before anything more happens..
+ [17:21] <pedro_> s/oen/one ? :-)
+ [17:21] <ElPasmo> :P
+ [17:21] <hggdh> dyslexia, please pardon me
+ [17:21] <charlie-tca> See, I knew you would know what I meant
+ [17:22] <hggdh> what I see: mentorship is still slow
+ [17:22] * charlie-tca trying to use three keyboards and two mice at once again
+ [17:22] <hggdh> mentees propose themselves, but do not really devote time
+ [17:22] <charlie-tca> Have we added people to group A yet?
+ [17:23] <hggdh> we have two there, yes
+ [17:23] <yofel> did the beginners team cooperation result in anything yet btw.?
+ [17:23] <charlie-tca> Can't we add a few more to the team?
+ [17:24] <hggdh> yes, we should
+ [17:24] <hggdh> [ACTION] I will look at the pending list and add some more
+ [17:24] <hggdh> next
+ [17:24] <hggdh> nigelb to edit bugsquad headers to be similar or link to each other appropriately
+ [17:24] <pedro_> yofel, as far as i know there's no much input on that
+ [17:25] <hggdh> nigelb: how has that gone?
+ [17:25] <ElPasmo> In fact I have a question about mentees, Should I have done some contributions before asking for a mentor or anyone can ask without any previous contribution?
+ [17:25] <nigelb> hggdh: I delayed it waiting for wiki update. NOw that the update has hit, I'll get on it.
+ [17:25] <charlie-tca> ElPasmo: ask anytime you desire a mentor. Experience is not needed first
+ [17:25] <hggdh> ElPasmo: anyone can ask, as long as the pre-requisites are fulfilled
+ [17:25] <pedro_> ElPasmo, anyone can ask for it
+ [17:25] <ElPasmo> thanks :)
+ [17:25] <pedro_> heh
+ [17:25] <mrand> charlie-tca: check into synergy for the multiple mouse and keyboards
+ [17:26] <pedro_> why i didn't say : no! ?
+ [17:26] <hggdh> [ACTION] nigelb to keep on with update of bug page headers
+ [17:26] <charlie-tca> mrand: on different computers with three monitors?
+ [17:26] <mrand> charlie-tca: yes
+ [17:26] <charlie-tca> okay
+ [17:26] <charlie-tca> thanks
+ [17:26] <hggdh> next: devildante to split HowToTriage page up into a simple page and an advanced page
+ [17:27] <hggdh> devildante is MIA today. Anybody knows how this is progressing?
+ [17:27] <pedro_> i know he was working on it, but don't know the real progress as in today
+ [17:27] <pedro_> we can ask him on the ML though
+ [17:27] <hggdh> yes
+ [17:28] <hggdh> [ACTION] check with devildante about the split on basic/advanced HowToTriage
+ [17:28] <hggdh> and before I forget
+ [17:29] <hggdh> [ACTION] find out what happened with the meetingcology bot
+ [17:29] <pedro_> indeed
+ [17:29] <hggdh> now
+ [17:29] <hggdh> GNOME3 bug handling -- micahg
+ [17:29] <hggdh> micahg: please take over
+ [17:30] <hggdh> heh. micahg seems to be here only physically, mind elsewhere
+ [17:31] <hggdh> so
+ [17:31] <hggdh> Open Discussions.
+ [17:31] <micahg> ok, sorry
+ [17:31] <hggdh> micahg: please go on
+ [17:31] <hggdh> :-)
+ [17:31] <hggdh> micahg: I did the same just a few ago
+ [17:32] <micahg> so, the desktop team would like a way to tag bugs for the GNOME3 transition, most of it won't happy until natty+1, but they would like to be able to track bugs against their GNOME3 staging PPA
+ [17:32] <micahg> I wanted to propose a GNOME3 tag to be official at least for the next 2 cycles, how does everyone feel about that
+ [17:33] <hggdh> only one tag?
+ [17:33] <micahg> do we need more?
+ [17:33] <pedro_> what for you'd need more?
+ [17:33] <hggdh> IDK, I am not familiar with the desktop effort on Gnome3
+ [17:34] <seb128> there is nothing specific there
+ [17:34] <bdmurray> a gnome3 tag works for me
+ [17:34] <seb128> rather than landing the usual GNOME updates to natty we use a ppa
+ [17:34] <seb128> we might decide to move the ppa to natty if it's ready
+ [17:34] <seb128> otherwise it will land in natty+1
+ [17:34] <seb128> it's just that we are not confident yet that GNOME3 will be ready for natty
+ [17:35] <hggdh> OK. So bugs on the Gnome3 PPA are valid Ubuntu bugs -- folks, please do not forget this
+ [17:35] <seb128> well, they are valid but not targetting natty so far
+ [17:35] <seb128> so the same settings might not apply
+ [17:35] <seb128> they should not show on the r-t list
+ [17:36] <seb128> or the rc bugs listing
+ [17:36] <hggdh> seb128: the warning was mostly due to the fact that PPA-based bugs usually are not accepted
+ [17:36] <hggdh> seb128: so no targeting/milestoning these bugs, correct?
+ [17:36] <seb128> yeah, I'm still not sure we want to accept bugs about upstream issues
+ [17:36] <seb128> we do want bugs about distribution integrations issues though
+ [17:37] <seb128> or patches to updates
+ [17:37] <yofel> seb128: can't you have your own project for that bugs like kubuntu-ppa does?
+ [17:37] <seb128> seems suboptimal
+ [17:37] <yofel> you'll need an apport hook anyway since they're ppa packages
+ [17:37] <hggdh> there is that, yes
+ [17:38] <seb128> not sure we want apport bugs
+ [17:38] <yofel> and if you add a hook, then you can make to hook add the gnome3 tag
+ [17:38] <yofel> s/to/the/
+ [17:39] <hggdh> seb128: it sounds to me that you expect most of these bugs to be opened by developers or "official" testers, is this correct?
+ [17:39] <hggdh> i.e. manually opening them
+ [17:39] <Pici> w/22
+ [17:39] <Pici> sorry.
+ [17:40] <seb128> hggdh, well micahg raised the topic
+ [17:40] <seb128> I didn't think about it yet
+ [17:40] <seb128> but we don't want to be spammed with upstream bugs
+ [17:40] <njin> hello to all, does we have a 2.6.37 kernel-pae ?
+ [17:40] <seb128> we just want to know about integration issues
+ [17:40] <hggdh> njin: please wait a bit, in the middle of a meeting
+ [17:41] <micahg> hggdh: I would think mostly yes, but some things like gnome-shell will only be in the PPA unless GNOME3 lands, so we might get some users as well
+ [17:41] <hggdh> OK. Would it be fair to say, then, that we are adding the gnome3 tag, and details on how to deal with the _triaging_ will be ironed out later?
+ [17:41] <charlie-tca> If we at least get them tagged for gnome3, the ones that are not ours, someone who knows the package could delete, couldn't they?
+ [17:42] <hggdh> sounds plausible, charlie-tca. But I worry about triagers doing the Wrong Thing
+ [17:43] <seb128> hggdh, well we can start by adding the tag and see how it goes
+ [17:43] <seb128> I'm wondering if we want the topic to reflect that as well
+ [17:43] <seb128> ups
+ [17:43] <seb128> topic -> title
+ [17:44] <seb128> so those bugs are spotted easily from a bug list
+ [17:44] <hggdh> micahg, seb128: how about adding the tag to the official list, and adding a note on the HowToTriage asking to leave these bugs alone right now?
+ [17:44] <charlie-tca> If the tag is added to the tags page, it can explain what is happening with it
+ [17:44] <seb128> hggdh, works for me
+ [17:45] <micahg> wfm, too
+ [17:45] <seb128> we can tweak later when required
+ [17:45] <charlie-tca> and, of course, there will be hundreds of bugs we get questions about :-)
+ [17:45] <seb128> or if required
+ [17:45] <hggdh> seb128: a [GNOME3] in the title would make is immediately visible
+ [17:45] <seb128> yes
+ [17:45] <charlie-tca> I like that
+ [17:45] <njin> yes
+ [17:46] <hggdh> and, since right now they would have to be entered manually (no apport hook), this limits the number of probable OPs
+ [17:46] <hggdh> these pretty much know what to do
+ [17:46] <hggdh> How will update the tag list?
+ [17:47] <hggdh> /How/who/
+ [17:47] <bdmurray> I will
+ [17:48] <hggdh> [ACTION] bdmurray to add 'gnome3' as an official (temporary) tag, with a comment to leave these bugs alone for now
+ [17:48] <hggdh> anything else on GNOME3?
+ [17:48] <micahg> thanks hggdh, bdmurray, seb128
+ [17:49] <hggdh> OK
+ [17:49] <hggdh> Open Discussion
+ [17:49] <hggdh> anyone would like to share/comment/ask anything related to triaging?
+ [17:50] <hggdh> <dead silence ensues/>
+ [17:50] <charlie-tca> o/
+ [17:50] <hggdh> charlie-tca: please go ahead
+ [17:50] <charlie-tca> Launchpad is having a 2010BugJam
+ [17:50] <charlie-tca> They would like to close 6500 bugs
+ [17:50] <hggdh> oooohhhh
+ [17:50] <hggdh> OOOOHHHH
+ [17:50] <hggdh> when?
+ [17:50] <charlie-tca> https://dev.launchpad.net/BugJam
+ [17:50] <charlie-tca> now
+ [17:51] <charlie-tca> 13th-24th December 2010
+ [17:51] <micahg> charlie-tca: I believe those are launchpad project bugs :)
+ [17:51] <ElPasmo> Is tomorrow a class at #ubuntu-classroom about Basic Triaging at 17:00 UTC?
+ [17:51] <charlie-tca> Does that mean we can't help?
+ [17:52] <hggdh> but important to us also ;-)
+ [17:52] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, it only means it's tangentially related ;)
+ [17:52] <hggdh> ElPasmo: I think yes
+ [17:52] * micahg thought it was today
+ [17:52] <charlie-tca> I thought the class was today?
+ [17:52] <hggdh> charlie-tca: on the 15th
+ [17:52] <micahg> well, calendar says tomorrow, but I thought it was today
+ [17:53] <charlie-tca> Isn't that where devildante is today?
+ [17:53] <micahg> Yeah, I think the wrong date was entered
+ [17:53] <ElPasmo> oh no... I've missed it :(
+ [17:53] <yofel> classroom is dead silent though
+ [17:54] <hggdh> yes, nothing happening there
+ [17:54] <hggdh> and, on the Fridge calendar, it is scheduled for tomorrow
+ [17:55] <hggdh> so...
+ [17:55] <hggdh> ElPasmo: it is indeed tomorrow, I guess ;-)
+ [17:55] <ElPasmo> Well, and excuse my ignorance, but I suppose that the mentoring processs you talked before is the motu mentoring process?
+ [17:55] <ElPasmo> Thanks hggdh
+ [17:55] <hggdh> ElPasmo: no, not at all
+ [17:56] <hggdh> we deal with *triaging*, not with packaging/development
+ [17:56] <hggdh> although a lot of us also do that
+ [17:56] <ElPasmo> I see, Are they incompatible?
+ [17:56] <hggdh> not incompatible, just two completely different things
+ [17:57] <hggdh> MOTUs also do triaging
+ [17:57] <hggdh> but not necessarily triagers do packaging/developing
+ [17:57] <ElPasmo> Can you point me a link with the bugsquad mentoring?
+ [17:57] <yofel> ElPasmo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Mentors
+ [17:57] <ElPasmo> thanks :)
+ [17:58] <hggdh> any other questions?
+ [17:59] <hggdh> given the silence...
+ [17:59] <hggdh> #endmeeting
+ [17:59] <hggdh> and yes, I know the bot is not there ;-)
+ [17:59] <hggdh> uffff
+ [17:59] <hggdh> sorry for the delay again, folks
}}}
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