Why is this a separate email? Why didn't you just hit reply under the relevant message? <div>I understand that you feel strongly about your very own and personal opinion, but others may not, as per their "replying" to the thread in question. Don't get me wrong, let your opinion be known, that's what this is all about, but it just comes off a little self-important. </div> <div><br></div><div>If people created a new email based upon how strongly they felt about their own opinion, we'd see 50+ new in the past 2 days. Those 50+, might I add, being the interest in the supposedly "fizzled out" fashion you've mentioned above in regards to the somewhat controversial but highly welcome changes purported by AndrewG.</div> <div><br></div><div>I am standing with the clear-cut majority in reform, because the current format is not working, and we're all tired of hearing it's because we're not contributing.</div><div>A great deal of us laid off ages ago because there was no real inspiration, no incentive, as a product of the current structure. It's been said too many times, and it keeps getting the same draconian response from the usual community dinosaurs and hyaena's, and it's usually something along the lines of "The only person holding you back is you, but don't mind if I reserve the "leadership" status for.. well, telling more people that same thing I just told you" - or "If you have an idea, feel free to post/mention/homing pigeon it to (insert some redundant page nobody cares about here) and take it from there".</div> <div><br></div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">If the whole idea is that we have creative freedom to do anything we like, implement anything we like etc- was actually true, why do we still have labels sitting next to members?. One particular self-important member has their own little page dedicated to simply mentioning what little "power" they feel they have in the aus-loco community, the same person telling people they have powers11011 to do what they like, but ultimately (due to lack of transparency, vis-a-vis the popularity contest nature of it all) this simply does not happen. I've mentioned this example because It hits a nerve that someone would claim responsibility of the success of anything when they are a contributer of little. </span></b></div> <div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><br></span></b></div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;">I've been absolutely redundant for ages, because I've been waiting for someone like AndrewG (sorry to embarrass you) to come along and put things more intelligently in to words, as my fuse is simply too short to deal with this anymore, as every time there's a ray of light, someone comes a long and cops a massive squat on it, normally in disguise as somebody important. </span></b></div> <div><b><br></b></div><div><br></div><div>T.</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Dave Hall <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dave.hall@skwashd.com">dave.hall@skwashd.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi all,<br> <br> I have been watching as the whole structure and leadership discussions<br> has come up again.<br> <br> I've looked back over the archives for this year. Based on the amount<br> of energy exerted by people discussing things on this list and IRC about<br> "what's f'd with the LoCo" they could have organised and run several<br> real meat space events.<br> <br> Frankly I don't care if support questions don't get answered on this<br> list, they belong on ubuntuforums or a LUG list. This list is for the<br> discussion of the LoCos activities and building the group. On more than<br> one occasion I have been tempted to draft a boiler plate response for<br> support questions.<br> <br> I know for some people ubuntu is their first experience with the<br> free/open source software community. This can lead to some<br> misunderstandings around how things work in such communities.<br> <br> Linus' quote of "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." really sums up how<br> things work. Actions speak far louder than words in many FOSS<br> communities, ubuntu included (imo).<br> <br> Instead of people blaming others and the organisation structure for why<br> things aren't working, look at your own contributions. This list is<br> here to facilitate actions, but most of the time I just see people<br> finding excuses for why things aren't happening.<br> <br> Things probably do need to change in the LoCo, but from what I have seen<br> so far, the "squeaky wheels" don't inspire me that things will be much<br> different, other than maybe so more "we should do X" or "why can't we do<br> Y" threads which just fizzle out due to lack of interest.<br> <br> If you want city/state based LoCos and a national structure, great. To<br> make this happen you need to make things happen in your states. Lucid<br> is out in ~2 weeks. How many of you are actively organising a release<br> party in your area in the next 4 weeks? The publicity should all be out<br> for such events. How many of these release parties have involvement of<br> the local LUG (for capital cities) or computer regional events?<br> <br> When you can show me several well attended regular ubuntu meetups (in<br> non licensed venues so they are truly inclusive) in several states then<br> you will convince me that there is a need for city/state/regional LoCos.<br> Then I will also be convinced that there are people who are committed to<br> getting out there and doing the work of the LoCo.<br> <br> For now I think the "status quo" as some like to call it is all we need.<br> It copes with lots of discussion and the occasional event. Feel free to<br> convince me otherwise.<br> <br> Cheers<br> <br> Dave<br> <font color="#888888"><br> <br> --<br> ubuntu-au mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au</a><br> </font></blockquote></div><br></div>