<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Rob Oakes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lyx-devel@oak-tree.us">lyx-devel@oak-tree.us</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Hi Leandro,</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hi Rob!</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><div>Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts. This has been a very interesting thread.</div><div class="im"><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, indeed. :) </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="im"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font color="#000000">Y</font>es, and some of us do. But the problem is when we want to 'push our work upstream' to the global community. All the process, teams and tools are English centric (maybe SU being one of the few exceptions).</div>
</div></blockquote><br></div></div><div>While I empathize with your concerns, I'm not sure that this a solvable problem. Contributor materials and instructions can be translated, but for collaboration to happen, people have to share a common tongue. For centuries, this was Latin. Now, it happens to be English.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It makes sense that Ubuntu (and other open source projects) would use the lingua franca of science, technology and business. It prevents misunderstanding and disagreements.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>Yes, agreed. But if someone wants to express him/herself clearly and fails to do so in English, would you mind that he/she posted something in Spanish (or German, Croatian, French...) to the mailing list?</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><div>For the past year or so, I've led a project that creates a backup program. I've received contributions from people in Italy, Russia, Poland, Sweden, the Netherlands, and Mexico. That kind of international collaboration would be impossible if we didn't all speak English. Google translate can only get you so far.</div>
<div class="im"><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm admin of the ubuntu-l10n-es team and used to work as a translator and interpreter for many years... and trust me; having no translation is better that Google Translator. :)</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="im"><div></div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">It's just not about translations. It's more about process and tools.</span></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div></div><div>Perhaps there might be ways to mitigate the difficulties for those without English speaking members? Maybe the translation team could help LOCOs prepare their applications, for example. But language barriers aren't going away. </div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to solve this... I'm just being part of the problem here:)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>There isn't any process or tool that can replace the need for people to communicate. Nor is it realistic for upstream to master all of the languages of downstream. </div></div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well... they could if upstream were more diverse.</div><div><br></div><div>A couple of months ago, someone posted to the Planet a list of all of the members of the community governance bodies (i.e. all the Councils) and only a few came from non-English speaking countries.</div>
<div><br></div><div>My question is: Why are there so few contributors/vocal leaders from outside the US/UK/Australia? Is language a barrier for people to step up? Are we missing valuable contributors because of this?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Edit: Found the post! :) <a href="http://sensehofstede.nl/realise-native-english-speakers-are-privileged">http://sensehofstede.nl/realise-native-english-speakers-are-privileged</a></div><div><br></div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Like most downstream projects, upstream tends to be idea heavy, and resource poor.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'd second Сергей's suggestion:</div><div><br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">Maybe we can make up lists of people who can be contacted in case Google Translate is not enough to understand a message, or if one wants to post something but doesn't know English. For example, I might be a contact for Russian language. While I don't contribute in a really meaningful way, at least I monitor all activity on this list, and [hopefully] know English enough to understand others and be understood.</span></blockquote>
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div></div><div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">Having some sort of central resource would make the most sense. Is there a way to contact the translation team leaders and inquire if they could provide aid for downstream teams trying to prepare applications, patches, artwork, and proposals for upstream? Are there entities outside of Ubuntu who might be able to help with this challenge?</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">Cheers,</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div><font color="#888888"><div><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">Rob Oakes</span></div>
</font></div></div><br>--<br>
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