<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">>> Not only are the buttons on the left, but they're not even correct for<br>
>> "buttons on the left"!<br>>><br>>> What OS X has: close, minimize, maximize : menu<br>>> What we have: maximize, minimize, close : menu<br>>> What Windows has: menu : minimize, maximize, close<br>
>><br>>> As it is right now, the theme will break muscle memory for everyone<br>>> coming from Windows, OS X, and even all other Linux distros (including<br>>> previous versions of Ubuntu)!<br>>><br>
>><br>> Is breaking muscle memory that important? You've just illustrated that<br>> Windows and OSX are different from one another anyway. Mac OS doesn't even<br>> have a separate menu on each window and yet people still seem perfectly<br>
> able<br>> to switch from Windows to OSX. Perhaps we should concentrate on making the<br>> design attractive, unique AND useful without worrying so much about<br>> providing maximum correlation with what has been done before.<br>
><br>> While it's important to look at other systems for context, we should not<br>> be<br>> a slave to what the others are doing. Doing that I think we will always be<br>> a<br>> step or two behind.<br>
><br>> Of course all of this design stuff depends on who Ubuntu is being aimed<br>> at.<br>> Is that documented somewhere?</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, sans-serif"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">When using OS X, as I have briefly, it is rare that those buttons, close, minimize and maximize are ever used. Closing on OS X keeps the program running so most either do command Q or go to "quit"... muscle memory isn't a big issue. i like things on the upper right.<br>
</span></font><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:36 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art-request@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Merk)<br>
2. Re: Ubuntu Jersey's (Trey Ethridge)<br>
3. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (SorinN)<br>
4. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Nate Wiebe)<br>
5. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Dylan McCall)<br>
6. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (Chris Tooley)<br>
7. Re: Metacity Button Order Changed (David Zondlo)<br>
8. MeMenu icon, why not Humanity style? (Hajo E.)<br>
9. Thanks (John Baer)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:49:58 -0800 (PST)<br>
From: Merk <<a href="mailto:merkinman@hotmail.com">merkinman@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:27798420.post@talk.nabble.com">27798420.post@talk.nabble.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
<br>
Fine we shouldn't do something just because OS X or Windows does it.<br>
<br>
But what was the research done to show that left aligned, maximize,<br>
minimize, close was the best option?<br>
<br>
Without explanation, it just feels arbitrary and change for the sake of<br>
change.<br>
<br>
<br>
Richard Querin wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Dana Goyette <<a href="mailto:dgoyette@calpoly.edu">dgoyette@calpoly.edu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Not only are the buttons on the left, but they're not even correct for<br>
>> "buttons on the left"!<br>
>><br>
>> What OS X has: close, minimize, maximize : menu<br>
>> What we have: maximize, minimize, close : menu<br>
>> What Windows has: menu : minimize, maximize, close<br>
>><br>
>> As it is right now, the theme will break muscle memory for everyone<br>
>> coming from Windows, OS X, and even all other Linux distros (including<br>
>> previous versions of Ubuntu)!<br>
>><br>
>><br>
> Is breaking muscle memory that important? You've just illustrated that<br>
> Windows and OSX are different from one another anyway. Mac OS doesn't even<br>
> have a separate menu on each window and yet people still seem perfectly<br>
> able<br>
> to switch from Windows to OSX. Perhaps we should concentrate on making the<br>
> design attractive, unique AND useful without worrying so much about<br>
> providing maximum correlation with what has been done before.<br>
><br>
> While it's important to look at other systems for context, we should not<br>
> be<br>
> a slave to what the others are doing. Doing that I think we will always be<br>
> a<br>
> step or two behind.<br>
><br>
> Of course all of this design stuff depends on who Ubuntu is being aimed<br>
> at.<br>
> Is that documented somewhere?<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ubuntu-art mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
--<br>
View this message in context: <a href="http://old.nabble.com/Metacity-Button-Order-Changed-tp27789013p27798420.html" target="_blank">http://old.nabble.com/Metacity-Button-Order-Changed-tp27789013p27798420.html</a><br>
Sent from the ubuntu-art mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:24:08 -0500<br>
From: Trey Ethridge <<a href="mailto:tethridge@gmail.com">tethridge@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Jersey's<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:51c387971003051224n70db8b75t2122be8f4ed496aa@mail.gmail.com">51c387971003051224n70db8b75t2122be8f4ed496aa@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
I can follow up with them to see if they will accept standard SVG files.<br>
The first ride is June 5th. They require 6 to 8 weeks to deliver. Eight<br>
weeks from June 5th is around the 11th of April.<br>
<br>
I would like to have the design done by the beginning of April if I had to<br>
set a reasonably comfortable deadline. The more time we have the better.<br>
I'll still need to sell enough of the jersey's to do the minimum order.<br>
I'm sure a lot of people would want to see the jersey before they agree to<br>
buy one.<br>
<br>
Trey<br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Thorsten Wilms <<a href="mailto:t_w_@freenet.de">t_w_@freenet.de</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Fri, 2010-03-05 at 13:53 -0500, Trey Ethridge wrote:<br>
><br>
> > I may be wrong about SVG, but that is basically what Illustrator<br>
> > produces.<br>
><br>
> Illustrator has its own .ai format. Inkscape should be able to save<br>
> to .ai, but my build of it refuses to do so, currently. Need to solve<br>
> that.<br>
><br>
><br>
> > Thanks for the feed back. Are you interested?<br>
><br>
> Interested yes, but not entirely sure, yet. This will have to wait until<br>
> the new colors are pinned down and a vector file of the new logo is<br>
> available, anyway.<br>
><br>
> Guess I will have to do it because not helping you in this cause would<br>
> be sad and there is nobody else on this list capable of getting it<br>
> right ;p (would love to be proven wrong).<br>
><br>
> Can you set a deadline, going from the first race backwards, getting<br>
> jerseys delivered/sold, 6 weeks production (or what it was) plus a<br>
> buffer for whatever might go wrong?<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Thorsten Wilms<br>
><br>
> thorwil's design for free software:<br>
> <a href="http://thorwil.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://thorwil.wordpress.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ubuntu-art mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 22:48:28 +0200<br>
From: SorinN <<a href="mailto:nemes.sorin@gmail.com">nemes.sorin@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Cc: John Baer <<a href="mailto:baerjj@gmail.com">baerjj@gmail.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:e9ddc421003051248q1e9cc22bu3dad5fc9f3f6168@mail.gmail.com">e9ddc421003051248q1e9cc22bu3dad5fc9f3f6168@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
Yes. What was to happen was happened :(<br>
<br>
Very much amateurism on this change (right corner to left corner for<br>
close / minimize / maximize buttons). Yes amateurism - you hear well<br>
my friends. A good Human Machine Interaction engineer will not do such<br>
a move. There are laws and principles. Some Unix friends told me that<br>
they have a word "do not destroy well established things". I bet they<br>
know what they say they are Oracle engineers with almost 30 years of<br>
Unix / Linux behind.<br>
<br>
2 main reasons which prove the amateurism :<br>
<br>
- this move will broke what was good and acknowledged by 90 % or more PC users<br>
as `de facto ` (and I don't hear complains about that).<br>
<br>
- the left side position of those buttons will agglomerate<br>
(unnecessary) the space where a normal user search for menu bar and<br>
for 1'st level functions.<br>
Those buttons has a secondary scope and are rarely used, the right<br>
corner was a good place for this group according usability standards<br>
(the fact that MAC use those buttons on the left means nothing they<br>
are maybe 5%, rest of the world just close their windows from the<br>
right corner).<br>
<br>
Indeed, everyone know that Gnome need some facial changes but hey -<br>
why they start to kill the piano ? ..just because ?<br>
<br>
Well it's clear that the team behind that move does not contain<br>
professionals. If this was just a proposal - there's no excuse for<br>
that. A single word >> amateurism.<br>
<br>
Shuttleworth deserver better peoples because his movement is a crucial<br>
movement of the modern history. I think he believe in peoples too much<br>
and that's that's the point where some peoples can see a profit. Too<br>
bad.<br>
<br>
2010/3/5 Kenneth Wimer <<a href="mailto:kwwii@ubuntu.com">kwwii@ubuntu.com</a>>:<br>
> On Friday 05 March 2010 01:43:43 am John Baer wrote:<br>
>> I noticed in today's upgrade (03/04) the order of the metacity's<br>
>> "minimize" and "maximized" buttons changed.<br>
>><br>
>> In the old metacity the order was; minimize, maximize, close<br>
>><br>
>> In the new metacity the order is: maximize, minimize, close<br>
>><br>
>> Is this the desired effect or is this a bug?<br>
><br>
> This is the desired effect.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Ken<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ubuntu-art mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Nemes Ioan Sorin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:21:42 -0400<br>
From: Nate Wiebe <<a href="mailto:nate___wiebe@hotmail.com">nate___wiebe@hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID: <COL104-W75F673BC2DEA9E6C5C617F2380@phx.gbl><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
<br>
At first I was very sceptical about having them on the right but I decided to give it a shot. After using the buttons on the left for a few hours, it feels very natural since I am usually focused on the left hand side of the screen to begin with, so it makes sense why the side was changed.<br>
<br>
I am currently using "maximize,minimize,close:menu" and I have to say that I really appreciate this change.<br>
<br>
As for other themes, I think it all depends on what the overall feel is to determine which side they should be located on, but I think they should all be able to adapt.<br>
<br>
--Nate Wiebe<br>
<br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
IM on the go with Messenger on your phone<br>
<a href="http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960" target="_blank">http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960</a><br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:28:32 -0800<br>
From: Dylan McCall <<a href="mailto:dylanmccall@gmail.com">dylanmccall@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:9b6762c91003051328y4bf826daqad2e6538246d9da2@mail.gmail.com">9b6762c91003051328y4bf826daqad2e6538246d9da2@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
On 3/5/10, Nate Wiebe <<a href="mailto:nate___wiebe@hotmail.com">nate___wiebe@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> At first I was very sceptical about having them on the right but I decided<br>
> to give it a shot. After using the buttons on the left for a few hours, it<br>
> feels very natural since I am usually focused on the left hand side of the<br>
> screen to begin with, so it makes sense why the side was changed.<br>
><br>
> I am currently using "maximize,minimize,close:menu" and I have to say that I<br>
> really appreciate this change.<br>
><br>
> As for other themes, I think it all depends on what the overall feel is to<br>
> determine which side they should be located on, but I think they should all<br>
> be able to adapt.<br>
><br>
> --Nate Wiebe<br>
><br>
> _________________________________________________________________<br>
> IM on the go with Messenger on your phone<br>
> <a href="http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960" target="_blank">http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960</a><br>
<br>
Is there a firm rationale behind the trough in Radiance and Ambiance's<br>
Metacity theme? For me, it adds a lot of visual noise and makes it<br>
impossible to change the order of the buttons. (People firmly set in<br>
their ways won't be pleased). Removing the trough would solve that, so<br>
the new default would be slightly less of a problem since it could at<br>
least be changed as end users wish.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 13:29:28 -0800<br>
From: Chris Tooley <<a href="mailto:euxneks@gmail.com">euxneks@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:3ba18581003051329l11ec0a0eo3fa33cb6eef06103@mail.gmail.com">3ba18581003051329l11ec0a0eo3fa33cb6eef06103@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:48 PM, SorinN <<a href="mailto:nemes.sorin@gmail.com">nemes.sorin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Yes. What was to happen was happened :(<br>
><br>
> Very much amateurism on this change (right corner to left corner for<br>
> close / minimize / maximize buttons). Yes amateurism - you hear well<br>
> my friends. A good Human Machine Interaction engineer will not do such<br>
> a move. There are laws and principles. Some Unix friends told me that<br>
> they have a word ?"do not destroy well established things". I bet they<br>
> know what they say they are Oracle engineers with almost 30 years of<br>
> Unix / Linux behind.<br>
><br>
> 2 main reasons which prove the amateurism :<br>
><br>
> - this move will broke what was good and acknowledged by 90 % ?or more PC users<br>
> as ?`de facto ` (and I don't hear complains about that).<br>
><br>
> - the left side position of those buttons will agglomerate<br>
> (unnecessary) the space where a normal user search for menu bar and<br>
> for 1'st level functions.<br>
> Those buttons has a secondary scope and are rarely used, the right<br>
> corner was a good place for this group according usability standards<br>
> (the fact that MAC use those buttons on the left means nothing they<br>
> are maybe 5%, rest of the world just close their windows from the<br>
> right corner).<br>
><br>
> Indeed, everyone know that Gnome need some facial changes but hey -<br>
> why they start to kill the piano ? ..just because ?<br>
><br>
> Well it's clear that the team behind that move does not contain<br>
> professionals. If this was just a proposal - there's no excuse for<br>
> that. A single word >> amateurism.<br>
><br>
> Shuttleworth deserver better peoples because his movement is a crucial<br>
> movement of the modern history. I think he believe in peoples too much<br>
> and that's that's the point where some peoples can see a profit. Too<br>
> bad.<br>
<br>
I think we need to keep in mind that they have just released a small<br>
amount of information about the new shift in look, and I would liken<br>
this to a beta release. I think what they're doing is testing the<br>
waters for certain ideas to see what the reaction of the users will<br>
be.<br>
<br>
Personally, it doesn't matter to me which side the controls are on,<br>
but just due to the outcry of detractors I agree that it would be<br>
harmful if they didn't change it back to the right hand side of the<br>
window.<br>
<br>
Interestingly related:<br>
<a href="http://blog.daviey.com/blogroll/anything-but-the-buttons.html" target="_blank">http://blog.daviey.com/blogroll/anything-but-the-buttons.html</a><br>
<br>
-Chris<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:59:40 -0600<br>
From: David Zondlo <<a href="mailto:dzondlo@gmail.com">dzondlo@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Metacity Button Order Changed<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:b7cea7431003051659j3c0f3ad0x53a7ccfa56fb694c@mail.gmail.com">b7cea7431003051659j3c0f3ad0x53a7ccfa56fb694c@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
While I am super used to buttons-on-right I think I'm the only one who is<br>
digging the change to the left. Google chrome is still messing with me since<br>
its not decorated by metacity. Might have to go back to FF :P<br>
<br>
~Dave<br>
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Message: 8<br>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 02:38:33 +0100<br>
From: "Hajo E." <<a href="mailto:regardful@googlemail.com">regardful@googlemail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ubuntu-art] MeMenu icon, why not Humanity style?<br>
To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:c73062a51003051738h1c7142b5q33744a5b6afb9d73@mail.gmail.com">c73062a51003051738h1c7142b5q33744a5b6afb9d73@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
Having a look at the default look of lucid, you can see all icons in<br>
upper gnome-panel to be flat, monochromatic, mac-like and simple<br>
*except* the MeMenu "bubble". Is this a conscious decision or will it<br>
be changed to have a consistent set of symbols up there?<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Hajo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 21:36:29 -0500<br>
From: John Baer <<a href="mailto:baerjj@gmail.com">baerjj@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [ubuntu-art] Thanks<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:484ace5d1003051836n50ef4a0frb43ed0b5b1886631@mail.gmail.com">484ace5d1003051836n50ef4a0frb43ed0b5b1886631@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
I just updated my Lucid desktop and a new community-themes package.<br>
<br>
I see the Impression buttons are now on the left. I was thinking of doing<br>
the same thing.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the help!<br>
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ubuntu-art mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art</a><br>
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End of ubuntu-art Digest, Vol 57, Issue 8<br>
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</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Tim Weaver<br>2010<br><br>
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