[ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

Wed Jul 2 11:47:48 BST 2008

On Tuesday 01 July 2008 18:26:17 Ashton wrote:
> >I'll say it again, we are testing a dark theme to find out whether it is
>
> even
> possible to use one or not.
>
> Getting this message out before the alpha release would have been a good
> idea, in retrospect. I know there is no way to avoid TehMobMind over at
> Digg and the inevitable comments from people who hold a bizarre fascination
> with their own feces, the endlessly clever guesses about what the next
> build code name should be, etc...but some of the other comments might have
> been tempered if the writer at Ars was more informed (not that anyone at
> Digg would RTFA) about the goals of the dark theme. (Actually, I think the
> Ars piece was acceptable)

To be quite honest, I mentioned in the changelog that this is just for testing 
and didn't realize how many non-developers would actually look at the alpha. 
Live and learn :-)

My assumption now is that the normal human theme (the murrine version, 
hopefully) is what we will fall back to unless a decison can be reached to 
change that.

Ken

> Alphas should absolutely be a place for playing around with ideas, testing
> concepts...I don't think Digg or even Ars should be given room to
> discourage experimentation. Some PlanetUbuntu posts might have helped. And
> I'm wondering about the feasibility of some kind of doc/readme, slide show,
> or even pre-loaded Tomboy note, that would pop up or sit on the desktop
> only in the alphas, which would explain some of these things as well as
> whatever other changes Ubuntu might be looking into. "With this release we
> are exploring ... with this app, that app, and so on. Any constructive
> criticism should be left at such and such place...blah blah. If you have
> this hardware or that hardware we are particularly interested in your
> experiences with blah-de-blah...Thanks for trying this build and aiding in
> the growth of such and such."
>
> EveOnline and other endeavors suffer the same kind of "ZOMG I'm not
> participating anymore because things have changed!!!" and even when they
> try to be open and transparent by making use of dev blogs, audio
> interviews, video interviews, (and in EveOnline's case an oft ignored test
> server)...these reactions still exist. But at least they can point to some
> effort to keep users informed. Whether users chose to read, listen, or view
> the material is another matter. What you end up with are the informed vs
> the uninformed, and they can duke it out with each other.
>
> Seems like most of this info is out there in different places for each
> project. Having it gathered together and presented clearly and succinctly -
> not talking about pages of technical info here, thinking about the kind of
> thing displayed during an XP install...but more informative...um, and not
> during the install - would get a more useful response out of the community,
> instead of death threats, insults, and Mob fear reaction.
>
> NOW, for my question. :)
>
> If the dark theme is an experiment, what is the fallback? Is it "unity"?
> Something else entirely?
>
> Ashton
>
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:17 AM, SorinN <nemes.sorin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I see the comments Julian - but I have some expertize in design so I
> > can recognize values on that kind of things - so if someone wrote
> > something -> must be true ..hmm, ...just because ???.
> >
> > for example if  I remember well WE agreed on the past to not consider
> > comments like :
> > " That theme is a show stopper. Eww.."
> > OR
> > "Yeah. That theme makes me want to puke... I won't even give Ubuntu
> > 8.10 a try if it ships with that crap as a default theme."
> > OR
> >  "We thought you were "Cuckoo for Coco Puffs" not "Horny for Linux"
> > OR
> > "Jumping Jackrabbits!"
> >
> > Is someone has something to say ..arguments please, ... else millions
> > of other forums wait out somewhere.
> >
> > On other hands, Ibex internal GUI team make not just big - but a huge
> > mistake - all that peoples who think that a dark theme will succeed
> > for a distro who wants to touch the mainstream - public institutions,
> > enterprises  and in general a large scale public - they just wrong. I
> > like the theme, it's ok - but my professional opinion vote down.
> > Sorry. I dream for an ..."every people" Ubuntu. On his most generously
> > shape.
> >
> > This theme is perfect suitable for artists or for Gnome fans with some
> > free time.
> >
> > To have a dark theme ( being the theme about we talk one other one, is
> > unproductive - think about to peoples which work with forms
> > everyday...
> >
> > U see, I not agree with a dark default theme too - because I am from
> > the Design / GUI design area ( I got my money doing that ) but I make
> > the difference - I know such kind of themes will not become too
> > popular for the masses - but particularly I like the theme  ( for me
> > ), except the dark scrollbars and the pressed gnome buttons that are
> > not very clear defined, so I give just an advice to author.
> >
> > Back to the the living beans planet,  in forums I like explain my
> > points of view and to stay away from my primary impulses ( thousands
> > years of civilization should let some fingertips over peoples no ? )
> > so - I'll never say something like " this theme suck ...", because
> > it's not my level.
> >
> > On short:
> >
> > 1. I vote down for this theme. Sorry.
> > 2. I'll use this theme on my free time doing artworks, because I like
> > it. I think I'll change the scrollbar color before ;)
> >
> > 2008/7/1 Julian Oliver <julian at selectparks.net>:
> > > ..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 03:27:16PM +0300 SorinN wrote:
> > >> regarding:
> > >> > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even
> >
> > worse
> >
> > >> > then the default of Hardy....
> > >>
> > >> 1. Well my question is about "worse" word. What is so worse .. ?
> > >>
> > >> 2. indeed some things could be improved. Scrollbars  are almost
> > >> invisible - which is not good - always you have to loose 1 or 2
> > >> seconds to focus your look to see if is something scrollable or not -
> > >> but if the bar is colored and visible you will know from start if  is
> > >> something to scroll....
> > >>
> > >> It's clear, the author is not a fervent reader of usability books -
> > >> but hey - the rest is pretty clear and clean - he has talent he need
> > >> ideas / help not this kind of remarks.
> > >>
> > >> 3. Criticism must be "positive" - I mean -> if something is not good
> > >> -> let solve the problem, talk about problems not shoot the people...
> > >> I'm got tired of  "Neanderthal positivism" on almost all places - this
> > >> community must think in a superior way.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Anyway this theme will make it's history between graphic artists,
> > >> gamers - not office dedicated peoples, etc. On my opinion is one if
> > >> the best dark theme that I see on last months - clearly defined
> > >> buttons, elegant metacity theme. The only drawback -> scrollbars not
> > >> visible.
> > >
> > > regardless, it's clear that many people feel very strongly that they
> > > don't like the theme in its current iteration. i suggest you read some
> > > of their comments. my experience of it is also that it's a pretty poor
> > > dark theme.
> >
> > http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&amp;s=50009562&amp;f=174
> >096756&amp;m=299007113931&amp;r=299007113931
> >
> > > from:
> >
> > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080629-horny-for-ubuntu-8-10-first
> >-look-at-intrepid-ibex.html
> >
> > > regardless, instead of just diving in there now and making changes -
> > > you fixing the scrollbars, me trying to return some sane contrast to
> > > the colour palette - i feel it would be wise to provide a central forum
> > > for /users/ of the theme to make constructive criticisms. it could take
> > > the form of a sticky thread setup by one of the moderators at Ubuntu
> > > Forums, alongside similar forums in other languages.
> > >
> > > currently, the criticisms are spread both too widely and in contexts
> > > not constructive to collating well-meaning, useful feedback..
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > --
> > > julian oliver
> > > http://julianoliver.com
> > > http://selectparks.net
> > > messages containing HTML will not be read.
> > >
> > > --
> > > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > > ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> > --
> > Nemes Ioan Sorin
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art