[ubuntu-art] Theme Teams. Moving Forward. Making Stuff!

Sebastian Billaudelle sebbil at gmx.de
Sat Jan 5 19:22:19 GMT 2008


Thats my opinion.

Thank you!

Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 16:54 +0200 schrieb Nemes Ioan Sorin:

> I personally take this Civitas Forum in a semi-serious mode.
> Why ?
> 
> I put here on this community some questions - in time - and I add some 
> points in discussion.
> 
> Responses, generally - just disappoint me. Where I talk about serious 
> problems such a programmatic way to rethink UI elements design - giving 
> some examples, other peoples respond me they don't like the color of my 
> example [ where the color was not the problem on topic ] - so I see some 
> discussions are done in parallel - some peoples talk about something - 
> other peoples understand everything else -> so being parallels they will 
> not meet in the next gazillion of years. [this is not about Ken - I 
> observe Ken has a good background, knowledges and leader qualities - 
> this is good ].
> 
> So regarding your question Sebastian - I am designer - I respect my job 
> rules - for some applications I have to design custom graphics for form 
> elements, and UI. I do Plex WT theme for XP few years ago.
> 
> I can design elements for a new Ubuntu theme. But also I see here some 
> talented guys that can do the same. Not a single problem here with 
> designers. But with decision power.
> 
> How I can help when I say "the things should be on this way(....), from 
> Usability point of view" and other one after me will say "no, you're not 
> right" ...so where my expertise can go ?. Is not important that I have 
> some experience with this kind of things. Anyone will say NO and the 
> problem is solved.  ...waste of time, believe-me Sebastian - until the 
> decisional mechanism is solved. Right now anyone is equal to anyone.
> 
> This is the perfect terrain for the entropy rules (sad joke).
> 
> For example shadowh511 said :
>  > I think of a clean, simple OS.  the color brown
>  > represents cleanliness and simplicity, while blue represents sadness and
>  > fear.  If we want to have people download hardy, why not give them a
>  > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble
>  > windows and all of that eye candy
> 
> How could I can take this seriously ? Regarding colors - the problem is 
> solved before we born - so when he "think", some peoples could affirm 
> precisely where the problem is. Also a lack of maturity ->
> "why not give them a
>  > nice theme such as union and give them the desktop cube and the wobble
>  > windows and all of that eye candy"
> 
>  From his point of view all problems are solved with some wobble and 
> some eye candy. That's all. No problem with the enterprise user - which 
> has other rituals / values - no problem that Ubuntu must penetrate 
> there, eyecandy and wobble will solve all... even healthy problems maybe.
> 
> Well - this is a complex product with long term effects. But some 
> peoples want just to see how their dreams come true - not important if 
> this is in benefit of all (or almost all users) or not.
> 
> Also we not need a theme - there are a lot - we want to do "default 
> Ubuntu theme" (with minimum 3 color variations). That's the point. Hardy 
> will be LTS.
> Hardy will go on enterprises and offices.
> That mean thousands of peoples with vary ages.
> Hardy is not just for few peoples with free time. This theme must cover 
> a social demand - to be easy received by all that peoples / to be easy 
> to work with / to be visually pleasant.
> To be clean, useful and distinctive for Ubuntu.
> This is not so easy to obtain - anyhow some proposals will not go too 
> far with diagonal stripes on the scrollbar OR semitransparent buttons 
> (on scrollbar on others sides) - at least corporate users will hate that 
> because affect the look focus - also those stripes does not represent 
> anything if favor of "clean" principle, being from start a complication.
> 
> Here must be a distinction about how we like and what is good. But this 
> mean maturity and professionalism - not just "I like this - I think that 
> ..and so".
> 
> Professionalism mean clear states in every domain "Yes and No" not "I 
> think this could be.. " or ".. Maybe...", or with states as "Me, then 
> Goethe...".
> 
> So when I'll see a clean Idea in which I can believe OR when I'll see a 
> structure where I can collaborate [anyhow you need to create a 
> decisional structure - democracy, democracy but until when ?] - be sure 
> I will participate with work and knowledge - on the mean time I am 
> member of other Ubuntu teams and I have to fill daily bug reports and a 
> lot of other stuff ...
> 
> I will put some considerations about the Ubuntu 8.04 default theme in a 
> later (maybe tomorrow) mail. We will see after that.
> 
> Good luck - best wishes for everyone - and ..be minstrels not kings guys ;)
> 
> SorinN
> 
> Sebastian Billaudelle wrote:
> >   Well said!
> > 
> > I think that many people don't take us (you?) seriously. The current 
> > theme is years old...
> > Nobody uses the default theme (except of me, I think...).
> > If anybody woullead a team, I would join in. (I could do things like a 
> > new GDM-theme...).
> > 
> > Let's fight;-)
> > 
> > Am Samstag, den 05.01.2008, 11:23 +0000 schrieb Who:
> >>  All, 
> >>
> >>  On my schedule for this (potential) process, today was the day to 
> >>  decide whether or not we wanted to do this. Very few people have 
> >>  answered... Please answer. 
> >>
> >>  As it stands, with one suggested theme and no leader for it, we can't 
> >>  go ahead. There is just no point. Is there any support for this idea, 
> >>  or are people only here because they want to design the default theme 
> >>  (serious question, not an attack! ...please answer) 
> >>
> >>  In summary, here is why I think it is a good idea to do this 
> >>  * If you want your design to be available to Ubuntu users, this is the 
> >>  only certain way to do it 
> >>  * In the past, this team has had most success developing community 
> >>  themes (my opinion, but see below) 
> >>  * If we want to be taken more seriously as a team in the future, 
> >>  getting good stuff done well without offiicial hand-holding is 
> >>  important 
> >>  * Developing these themes is fun, seeing people using your theme is great 
> >>
> >>  But if we don't get people able to run them/do design we can't go 
> >>  forward. It is only sensible for me to drive a process like this  a 
> >>  certain amount (i.e the leaders need to want to do it!, and do does 
> >>  the team) 
> >>
> >>  It occurs to me that if we can't even make a complete theme of ANY 
> >>  style to a good standard, we shouldn't expect to be taken seriously 
> >>  when we ask to design the default theme! 
> >>
> >>  Happy answering, 
> >>
> >>  Who 
> >>
> >>  On Jan 3, 2008 9:59 AM, Frank Schoep <frank at ffnn.nl <mailto:frank at ffnn.nl>> wrote: 
> >>  > On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: 
> >>  > > To all the new people around here - please pay attention to Who, he 
> >>  > > has been around here for a good while and knows the drill. … 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Absolutely – there are a few people on this list who've been around 
> >>  > for quite some time. I think this list is very fortunate to still 
> >>  > have experienced people like Who and Troy around, but it's also good 
> >>  > to see a lot of new enthusiastic people sharing their vision. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > > … 
> >>  > > We came close to the real deal once, was it Dapper?, where we got a 
> >>  > > few community themes, bundled, but not enabled, by default. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > I think you are referring to Edgy, as the Theme Teams were introduced 
> >>  > in that release. Eventually three themes ended up in universe, being 
> >>  > Blubuntu (Who / PingunZ), Peace (Chuck Huber) and Tropic (Viper550). 
> >>  > 
> >>  > While varying in quality and polish, the mere fact they were included 
> >>  > was a sign that independent small community groups could work towards 
> >>  > their own vision *and* meet the hard deadline constraints that were 
> >>  > set for them. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > > This happened solely because of two things: 
> >>  > >  * A few people stood up and took responsibility for creating themes 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Indeed. There was a deadline for Theme Team applications a few weeks 
> >>  > into the release cycle so that the theme leaders needed to be 
> >>  > involved from the start up through a few weeks before release. For 
> >>  > Edgy, four leaders stepped up with a serious proposal. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > During the development period, we regularly discussed progress and 
> >>  > problems and where possible I tried to help out either myself or by 
> >>  > getting the right people in touch with each other. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > >  * Daniel Holbach saved our asses with a lot of packaging work we 
> >>  > > really should have done our selves 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Daniel has historically helped out with a lot of packaging work, 
> >>  > indeed. For the Edgy Theme Teams, we made sure he only had one final 
> >>  > version to package per theme with room before the deadline, so they 
> >>  > wouldn't burden him much. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > > I think it would be very valuable to have a "History Page" on the wiki 
> >>  > > outlining the success and Failures of the art team. That would 
> >>  > > probably help to make it clear how we are doomed to repeat history 
> >>  > > unless people step up an take responsibility. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > While I can't say much about Feisty, Gutsy or Hardy-in-progress, I 
> >>  > could tell you about Edgy. As far as I know, Edgy was the first (and 
> >>  > last?) release to actively try and use community input as a viable 
> >>  > source for distribution artwork. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Postmortem I did an interview with Linux.com on the Edgy cycle, and 
> >>  > there's some half-decent comments from Slashdot, too: 
> >>  > http://www.linux.com/feature/58477 
> >>  > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/2241255 
> >>  > ('Stroep' [sic]) 
> >>  > 
> >>  > It seems that all the history we built on the Wiki has been shoveled 
> >>  > elsewhere or been dumped in a landfill altogether, but if you can 
> >>  > find it, you might be able to reconstruct a decent timeline along 
> >>  > with the mailing list. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > It was pretty high traffic during those days (July - October 2006) 
> >>  > and the ML / Wiki combination seemed to work somewhat satisfactory. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > All in all, Edgy was edgy to me – as you can read in the interview 
> >>  > the idea was to try something new, community artwork by default, and 
> >>  > since there were no trodden roads available I did my best to get and 
> >>  > keep things rolling in an enjoyable fashion. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > I think it worked out pretty well in terms of community involvement, 
> >>  > enthusiasm, commitment, process structure and raw output. Slightly 
> >>  > missing was the desired art *direction* but somehow I don't think 
> >>  > that problem's been resolved ever since, no flame or offense intended. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > If you'd ask me now, sure I'd do things different based on the Edgy 
> >>  > experience and the knowledge I've accumulated since then, but I think 
> >>  > the Edgy cycle already showed a lot of potential for the future 
> >>  > although it never got tapped into afterwards. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Tell me if I'm wearing rose-colored glasses, thanks for reading. 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Sincerely, 
> >>  > 
> >>  > Frank 
> >>  > 
> >>  > 
> >>  > -- 
> >>  > ubuntu-art mailing list 
> >>  > ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com <mailto:ubuntu-art at lists.ubuntu.com> 
> >>  > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art 
> >>  > 
> >>
> 
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20080105/a8675738/attachment-0001.htm 


More information about the ubuntu-art mailing list