[ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Who]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:13 PM, Hylke Bons <h.bons at student.rug.nl> wrote:
> Who wrote:
>  > This is the most important point on which our opinions differ: I think
>  > that, for now, we cannot expect to be able to predict what the
>  > 'default' theme must be - there ARE no guidelines and it seems that it
>  > is NOT the job of the artwork team to make these guidelines...  Please
>  > see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
>  > - this was the last comprehensive attempt I made to get guidelines for
>  > default theme design sorted. As you will see, Kwwii answered many of
>  > the questions, but they really need to be asked again each release.
>  >
>  > I would argue that we shouldn't guess what will work  as a default.
>  > Pre Ubuntu would _anyone_ have suggested making brown a default? Or
>  > orange? If the decision was down to this team, Edgy could have looked
>  > very different, Dapper too. It wasn't then, it isn't now, and until we
>  > prove we can do quality stuff and work within the Ubuntu system, it
>  > won't be.
>  >
>  Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own
>  separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a
>  beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.
>  Although there are none/few guidelines for building a ubuntu theme,
>  there are human interface guidelines to go with.
>  What I'm trying to say is, everyone has a different taste, and that's
>  ok, but we shouldn't let people work on something that won't be at all
>  usable yet pretty.
>  I think ubuntu already has a lot of alternative themes to choose from.
>

Every USER has different tastes too - I think to assume we can make a
good default is ridiculous - we should be catering for a range of
needs. The default theme serves a very special need: To make Ubuntu
distinctive and also to be liked by Mark Shuttleworth - which is fine,
it is his distro, and he can call those shots, he has other
considerations to us that we might not know when designing.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  What needs to be clear that *this team does not choose the artwork*  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Despite being the 'Ubuntu Art Team' we have _never_ made a full theme
that was the default. I *strongly* believe this is because we have not
proved enough times in a row that we CAN do this. Really, to rally
around the default theme is _so much more likely_ to waste time than
making individual teams to make NON-Default themes. On the other hand,
if we make 5 themes that are GOOD ENOUGH to be default, package them,
get support for them, and support them through more than one release,
THEN we will have credibility when we ask to design the default theme
(or to make one of the themes already existing default)

'Human's Interface Guidelines' are, to be honest, not nearly good
enough for us to make something good with, and what the people that
are new here may not ever have personally experienced is that, in
releases gone by, it has been *one person* - Mark Shuttleworth, aka
sabdfl, who has decided what the default theme would look like. As an
example: In the Edgy cycle, after HUGE amounts of effort from the team
a professional designer not affiliated with the team was hired to
tweak things - only a fraction of our work (as I remember, the logo,
and a non-default wallpaper) was default. I know, as someone who had
spent HOURS and HOURS trying to make artwork to be the default, that
this is the most frustrating thing.

If you are absolutely certain you want to do this I _strongly_
recommend looking back at the email I sent to the list
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
and getting some of those answers for this cycle.


>  >
>  Fun IS important!
>  I seriously think it would be a lot of fun if we'd all join forces on
>  this one project, satisfying a lot of contributors that take the effort
>  to sign up to the mailing list and make their wishes and ideas heard,
>  rather than picking one out of 5 projects.


We would not have to pick one out of 5, as Cory says - they would all
be packaged. Currently in Ubuntu there are just OrangeSun,
BlubuntuLook and (I think) TropicLook available. And I know Blubuntu
really needs an update. It would be brilliant as a way to cater to
more users to make more themes and make them easy to install. IF you
want to make a theme to the Human guidelines then do it, maybe it will
be accepted as default, but there are _no_ guarantees.

On the contrary, by working towards a single default we will have to
pick just one of the many talented designers to lead, and only ONE of
the great directions to move in.

One theme cannot contain the vision and ideas of all these members
that come along and take the time to make their wishes heard -they
would end up being asked to do design that was different to their idea
and either
1. Doing it in the style of someone else, but not getting a chance to
explore their ideas --> not much fun, not rewarding
2. Just adding in a little bit of their own idea anyway --> not
continuity, messy theme
3. (just for balance) They realise that the person leading has better
ideas and enjoy it

But to get EVERYONE on the list to do number 3.. well... It seems unlikely.

If you want to make the default theme, prove you can make a really
good theme, have it packaged for this release, get some support for
it, and then see about being default when it is clear this team can
provide timely, quality work :)

I'm going to have to step out of this soon - I have said all I can say
and I've almost spend enough time on it to have done some art instead
:P

Who