Ubuntu-app-devel Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6

[Jesse Smith]

On 11-12-10 08:00 AM, ubuntu-app-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: Software Centre - Policy (Mario Kemper)
>     2. Re: Software Centre - Policy (Mario Kemper)
>     3. Re: Software Centre - Policy (Allison Randal)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 14:10:23 +0100
> From: Mario Kemper<mario.kemper at googlemail.com>
> To: Bhavani Shankar R<bhavi at ubuntu.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-app-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Software Centre - Policy
> Message-ID:<1323436223.13889.20.camel at mario-XPS-M1330>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Bhavani,
>
>>> The Ubuntu Software Centre looks similar to other popular App-Stores
>>> (Android, iOS et cetera). Hence, users will expect it to behave like
>>> those App-Stores, e.g. to automatically receive the latest version of an
>>> application that is available through the Ubuntu Software Centre.
>>>
>>> Obviously this is not the case for applications that are available in
>>> the official repos. But, developers that are offering software
>>> *exclusively* through the Software Centre are able to offer up-to-date
>>> versions whenever they want. This sounds like a disadvantage for me. Am
>>> I wrong?
>> Normally in the official archives, A newer version of an existing
>> package is updated in the latest development cycle which goes on
>> except when there is a SRU where in the packages are updated and
>> tested in the -proposed component and then pushed to the -updates
>> component upon successful testing for updating the package via update
>> manager or when there is a security or RC bug fix. Please do correct
>> me if m wrong or missed out something
>
>
> No, you are right. But exactly this is the problem. Every project needs
> to align their releases with Ubuntu's release cycle, because new major
> versions are only accepted during the current development cycle. Bugfix
> releases are accepted later on but this is irrelevant for smaller
> projects.
>
> As an example, I fix bugs as soon as possible. This means that there are
> no specific bugfix releases most of the time. The latest release is the
> most stable one (and it includes new features and bugfixes). When you
> look at the "modern" rapid release models (e.g. Firefox, Chrome) this is
> also true for bigger projects. Or would it be reasonable to keep Chrome
> 13.X for several years just because the version number 14.X indicates
> that it is a new major version. Software development goes fast nowadays
> and most of the users are willing to update to new major versions as
> soon as they arrive (like it is in most App-Stores).
>
>
>>> Additionally, please add support for donations to the Software Centre (I
>>> know it is already on the list). Currently it is easy for developers (of
>>> proprietary software) to sell an application but it is not possible to
>>> donate to free software projects (they are not allowed to add a
>>> *donation* version to the Software Centre).
>> Seems interesting, But many projects do have a make a donation option
>> on their websites, and another major point of view is how much is the
>> inclination to donate to free software. (Atleast here in India the
>> latter points holds good I believe)
>>
>
> True but
> a) users have to discover the homepage (and discover the button)
> b) some projects use Paypal, some use Moneybookers et cetera
> c) it is matter of trust - if the Software Centre is a trustworthy
> platform I would feel more comfortable when donating
>
>
>>>> If you'd like help making contact with the Debian or Ubuntu packagers
>>>> of
>>>> an app, we can help you out. Or, if your app was abandoned (the
>>>> packaging isn't being updated anymore), we can help you along the path
>>>> to becoming the maintainer for your own packaging.
>>>>
>>> That would be great. My software (Shutter - a screenshot taking
>>> application) is heavily out-of-date in Debian and a bit out-of-date in
>>> Ubuntu. I would be glad to become responsible for my own package. Any
>>> hints are welcome.
>>>
>> As I see here:
>>
>> http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/shutter.html
>>
>> There is already a new version of the package here:
>>
>> http://mentors.debian.net/package/shutter
>>
>> with some lintian warnings and a considrable diff (333 insertions)
>
> It was uploaded yesterday. I wasn't aware of it ;-)
> So let's see if it gets any attention.
>
>> The package maintainer is Ryan Niebur as seen in the PTS and you can
>> get in touch with him. He can help you out with this since he is a
>> Debian Developer with @debian.org address.
>
> I know him and he is not responding since a year or so. See this bug:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=595710
>
> Krzysztof Klimonda helped me to get the latest version into Ubuntu and I
> asked him to help me out to get it into Debian as well. Ryan Niebur
> didn't respond to him as well (@Ryan: In case you read this: this
> nothing personal ;-)).
>
>
>> PS: To get started with packaging in debian/ubuntu the New maintainers
>> guide is always helpful
>>
>> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/
>>
> Sure, I already have working packages since a couple of years and I use
> PPAs extensively. It is not about the packaging itself - it is about the
> process behind the scenes.
>
>
>
> Regards
> Mario
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 14:39:05 +0100
> From: Mario Kemper<mario.kemper at googlemail.com>
> To: Michael Vogt<mvo at ubuntu.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-app-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Software Centre - Policy
> Message-ID:<1323437945.13889.35.camel at mario-XPS-M1330>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>> Thanks for sharing your concern. I think you raise two issues here:
>> a) Its hard for a upstream to maintain his/her packages in
>> Debian/Ubuntu
>> b) Once Debian/Ubuntu release, the package can no longer be updated
>
> Exactly.
>
>
>> My opinion about (a) is that we (as a distro) should be more inclusive
>> for upstreams and give out per-package upload rights more
>> easily. I.e. the message should be "we welcome upstreams to work on
>> the packaging" And we do in fact, but it seems like we are not sending
>> this message strongly enough yet. Having the upstream care about the
>> package and looking at the buglist is IMO among the best that can
>> happen to a package :)
>>
> Good point. The whole process of getting an application into Debian or
> Ubuntu is scary for every beginner. Even though it is documented quite
> nicely (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages) it is by
> far more complicated than on other platforms.
> After going through the painful (but fun) job of developing an
> application you have to learn
> a) How to create a Debian package
> b) What is a repository and what are the differences between all the
> different repos (Universe, Multiverse, official Debian)
> c) What is MOTU
> d) How do I use IRC-channels (also scary for developers that are no
> open-source geeks) in order to ask someone to sponsor your package
> e) learn the meanings of all the used abbreviations like itp, rfp, wnpp,
> dif
>
> I went through the whole process myself a couple of years ago and it was
> painful. I can understand people to give up at some point.
>
> The Software Centre (an the MyApps-Concept) looked like a standardized
> and easy approach to solve most of those problem.
>
>
>> As for (b) this is because there is this culture of stability once the
>> distro is released. It makes a lot of sense but it does not fit
>> everyone (anymore). So I would envision that we actually support both
>> stability and features and let the user decide. The policy in the
>> distro would not change, packages are stable. But we would allow
>> MyApps/ARB/Backports new-versions of the app too and present them in
>> software-center as a (opt in) option. There are some challenges with
>> this of course, both technically and for the processes we have (like
>> ensuring QA on the updated apps) that needs work and discussion. But I
>> think its well worth the work.
>
> Amen. This would be absolutely awesome. I am more than willing to help
> if there is anything I could do.
>
>
> Greetings from Cologne
> Mario
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:26:03 -0800
> From: Allison Randal<allison at canonical.com>
> To: Mario Kemper<mario.kemper at googlemail.com>
> Cc: ubuntu-app-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Software Centre - Policy
> Message-ID:<4EE244AB.1010204 at canonical.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 12/08/2011 05:22 PM, Mario Kemper wrote:
>> I remember the idea of "developer's success stories" that was mentioned
>> during UDS-O. Do we already have some of them, e.g. an application that
>> was moved from Software Centre-only into the official repos?
> The "News" app, accepted to Extras in Maverick, was renamed to "Tickr"
> and is now in Debian, sync'd to Ubuntu Precise, and in Ubuntu Backports
> for Oneiric and Natty.
>
> The game 4digits was submitted to MyApps, but since it was previously
> packaged in Debian (later orphaned), we revived the Debian packaging
> instead of putting it in Extras, and made the 4digits developer the
> primary Debian maintainer. It was accepted by the Debian Games Team, has
> been sync'd to Ubuntu Precise, and we may submit it for backports for
> Oneiric and Natty.
>
>> That would be great. My software (Shutter - a screenshot taking
>> application) is heavily out-of-date in Debian and a bit out-of-date in
>> Ubuntu. I would be glad to become responsible for my own package. Any
>> hints are welcome.
> Fridays are our "office hours" for the ARB, hop on #ubuntu-app-devel,
> and we can help untangle it. I know Ryan Niebur (he does a bunch of Perl
> stuff, and helped out on the Parrot packages a while back), I'll
> introduce you. Looks like the last time he updated the shutter package
> was April 2010, so it may be technically "orphaned" and able to be
> adopted. The first step is just to ask him.
>
> Allison
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>



If I may interject something here, I've been following the conversation 
with regards to donations and I think it would be a nice feature to have 
a "donate" button in the Software Centre. A lot of people get their 
software exclusively through the Software Centre (or other package 
managers) and will never see the upstream websites. Accepting donations 
could be a benefit to both Canonical and the upstream developers 
(assuming a fair percentage split is given to both).

Jesse