[orca-list] Important: Web accessibility survey for screen reader users
Alex Midence
alex.midence at gmail.com
Mon Jul 27 17:32:49 UTC 2015
Thanks to all who took part in the survey while it was open. Yes, all you have to do to tell them you use Orca is mark Other where necessary and tell them you use it in the comments section. I only wish I'd gotten the word out sooner. For the record, I for one do not think the exclusion of Orca was necessarily deliberate and has absolutely nothing to do with the financial interests of any screen reader vendors or producers of proprietary operating systems. Otherwise, none of the Android free screen readers would've been mentioned. I think it has more to do with a lack of awareness. They simply have no idea how many of us there are out there whose use Orca on a Linux machine. I wanted to give some of us a chance to be heard from. I certainly did not intend to pander to the conspiracy theorists out there who seem to find some sinister intent in all of this. I frankly find such thinking quite ridiculous and regret giving anyone who harbors such opinions fodder for such things. The Floss a11y community stands to gain far more by polite interaction with such organizations working under the assumption of good intent without sufficient data than we would if we approach them like indignant crusaders going after callous big business. I am convinced that such an approach would be a massive turnoff and actually close doors for us rather than open them.
Best regards,
Alex M
-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces at gnome.org] On Behalf Of B. Henry
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 11:48 AM
To: Magdalen Berns; orca-list at gnome.org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Important: Web accessibility survey for screen reader users
It is counter productive to not participate.
If you have not ever done this survey perhaps you are unaware that in all cases I remember there is an other option where you can write in orca. Perhaps my memory is not 100% correct, and there are questions where this is not ture, but again, I don't remember not being able to write in Orca, and speakup.
I mention both as I use both, and i check NVDA or listed alternatives where appropriate. I think there are questions where you are asked to put screenreaders in ordr of which you use most, but may be confusing this with other surveys. I'm really sory I didi not do this year's survey now that this has become such a topic of interest here as having more people mentioning Orca and friendswould likely have more impact.
I don't remember if write ins such as Orca are mentioned by name in the published results or not, or if "other" is just shown as such lumpiing all write-ins together.
I seem to recall that there is an overview or results as well as a detailed results presentation. They also showed trends comparing where they compared
current results to past years with some analysis.
--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886
Magdalen Berns wrote:
Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 05:28:01PM +0100
> I doubt very much the authors of this survey are part of some world wide
> conspiracy against Orca or open source software.
>
> Me too but with that said there are some situations where
> industry/institutions have reason to endorse one product over another. DSA
> assessment centres in the UK are a bit "unmotivated" by free software
> alternatives, for example. It happens...
> In any case, you certainly have a point in that products like Orca do not
> always come to the attention of those who may benefit from learning about
> it so I don't see the harm in anyone getting in touch with an organisation
> like WebAim to let them know what's great about Orca (or with filling out
> their survey either - as long as they are willing to share the findings by
> publishing them with everyone else in an accessible way) but good in that
> idea.
> Anyway, I just wanted to say that it's great to see people invested in
> getting the word out there in any shape or form, really. I hope people
> continue to bring great ideas like this up! The more people helping to
> promote GNOME as a credible accessible alternative to proprietary
> offerings, the better!
> Thanks,
> Magdalen
>
>
> I think it's much more likely that it was just over looked or that
> Linux/Orca just isn't used by enough people, at least with some actual
> statistics, to merit inclusion in this list. ChromeVox is new, and is
> the screen reder for ChromeOS and ChromeBooks, so I'm not surprised it's
> on the list, at least for now. I'd suggest doing what I did and
> including Orca on the survey yourself as an other or in the write in
> comments.
>
> On 07/27/2015 07:18 AM, kendell clark wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> hi
> This is definitely possible. I was talking with some people on the
> talking arch channel and we were all wondering why orca didn't get a
> mention. After all, chromevox is on the list, and that barely
> qualifies as a screen reader. It's more of an application specific
> reader, which ... well, whether it counts or not is debatable I guess.
> I think it all boils down to the blind government agencies, of which
> this web accessibility thing is probably associated with, conveniently
> forgetting to give linux any mentions at all. I've noticed this a lot,
> but I don't have an answer. My cinical side thinks it's some plot to
> make windows and apple invaluable, while the rest of me has no idea.
> Thanks
> Kendell clark
>
> kk wrote:
>
> Hi all. orca is indeed being used in India extensively, specially
> in the south. And I think this is deliberate social engineering by
> some exploitative proprietary mafia which wants people to have
> another reason not to use a free OS. Given that NVDA gets a mention
> at all the places, it being open source, then why not Orca? The
> reason is very simple, you still need proprietary OS and other
> proprietary software with NVDA right? But Linux is free as in
> freedom and to a great extent as in free of cost. So they want to
> defeate the very social purpose. Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
>
> On Monday 27 July 2015 01:03 PM, Trenton Matthews wrote:
>
> hmmm. Fewer usrs? Nah. Small community, definitely.
>
> As for it not being on the survey, (which i think is closed now,)
> I wonder the reason why Orca isn't on the list, is because it
> doesn't get enough press. Same with Supernova and Cobra on
> Windows for that matter...
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:09 AM, _mallory
> <[1]stommepoes at stommepoes.nl <mailto:[2]stommepoes at stommepoes.nl>>
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 09:17:52AM -0500, Alex Midence wrote:
>
> I wanted to pass this link along to you guys so the Orca
>
> community is more represented in these things so, I’m terribly
> sorry about the cross posting. This is a survey conducted by
> Webaim to find out how accessible screen reader users think the
> internet is. What bugs me is that they mention nearly all
> screen readers except for Orca. Last time I mentioned it to
> them, they said it was because they didn’t think anyone used it
> much so, they didn’t include it. Chromevox was there though
> which I would argue has fewer users than Orca does.
>
> [3]http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey6/
>
> Jared even made a snarky comment about Orca users:
> [4]https://twitter.com/jared_w_smith/status/618529195761668096
>
> It would be nice to know if Orca is more heavily represented in
> countries like India and Brazil, because I'm pretty sure the
> WebAIM surveys are very Western-biased, where having a Windows
> machine is often an automatic default.
>
> _mallory _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list [5]orca-list at gnome.org
> <mailto:[6]orca-list at gnome.org>
> [7]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
> [8]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
> manual is at
> [9]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>
> The FAQ is at [10]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>
> Log bugs and feature requests at [11]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find
> out how to help at [12]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
> _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
> list [13]orca-list at gnome.org
> [14]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
> [15]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
> manual is at
> [16]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>
> The FAQ is at [17]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>
> Log bugs and feature requests at [18]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find
> out how to help at [19]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
> _______________________________________________ orca-list mailing
> list [20]orca-list at gnome.org
> [21]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit
> [22]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
> manual
> is at
> [23]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>
> The FAQ is at [24]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
>
> Log bugs and feature requests at [25]http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
> out
> how to help at [26]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
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> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> [27]orca-list at gnome.org
> [28]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit [29]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> The manual is at
> [30]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> The FAQ is at [31]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at [32]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find out how to help at [33]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> [34]orca-list at gnome.org
> [35]https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit [36]http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> The manual is at
> [37]http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> The FAQ is at [38]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at [39]http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find out how to help at [40]http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:stommepoes at stommepoes.nl
> 2. mailto:stommepoes at stommepoes.nl
> 3. http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey6/
> 4. https://twitter.com/jared_w_smith/status/618529195761668096
> 5. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 6. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 7. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> 8. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> 9. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> 10. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 11. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> 12. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> 13. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 14. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> 15. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> 16. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> 17. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 18. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> 19. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> 20. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 21. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> 22. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> 23. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> 24. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 25. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> 26. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> 27. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 28. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> 29. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> 30. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> 31. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 32. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> 33. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> 34. mailto:orca-list at gnome.org
> 35. https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> 36. http://live.gnome.org/Orca
> 37. http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> 38. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 39. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/
> 40. http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list at gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
> The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
_______________________________________________
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https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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